Dear All, This Priest Fr.Darley is another oppertunist and politician.He can write and speak for anybody as he get something for that!He does not have a common sense of a priest!He likes politricking! The Existence of Jacobites are depending on their faith in the throne in Antioch! They want Split in the church and divide! Actually these are(Parumala issue) devil/evil plan by Jacobite heirarchy!
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Fr.Darly your are the darling of our Antiochian Movement. Good you came back after you went with Methrakashi. People say you came back because you didn't get any position. Don't worry, you be in the forefront of this Parumala fight. You will be rewarded. Our Patriarch in Antioch will definitely give you a position. Now don't forget about the foundation stone laying. Our Thomas Bava is going to do it. And let us see what these guys can do.
He is talking about logic, in unlogical way. Saint Gregorios departed in 1902. Adhaman Society started in 2002. Still claiming he belong to his faction. Last paragraph, he is saing Keralam is not ruled by IOC. no body can check whether thay have any family in Parumala or not? ..he himself dont know what he is saying...even then he is priest....
Yes Akash, Why are these orthodox people so concerend with we building church there. We are just building a church in Parumala for true worship. We only have genuinity in traditions and rituals because we got it from Antioch.These people cheated our Patriarch. All the rest are fake. Antiochya Simhasanam neenal vazatty.
Dear All, History says that Parumala thirumeni at his last hour of this saintly life on earth entrusted 'the keys and the documents of Parumala seminary and everything he possessed' to his well-beloved disciple 'Geeverghese Ramban(Vattasseril thirumeni)'. What does it imply? Parumala thirumeni, in his extrasensory perception or spiritual insight, might have known that Vattaseril thirumeni was the right person to be his successor or the custodian of the Malankara sabha. It was all the will of God that Parumala pally ( the holy land in Kerala) must be governed by the Malankara Metropolitan of the Malankara Orthodox syrian Church. God bless!
About a year ago Fr Darly wrote a letter a to the editor in Mathrubhoomi weeekly. It describes about the Jacobite Archdiocese's efforts to decorate criminals with special medals like Commander, Chavalier etc I have a copy of the issue with me. Fr Darley, I need no better proof than this to believe what Sam wrote about you here.
1. Better NOT Provoke the Orthodox Church, becasue FAILURE is certainly ours (Jacobites')
2. Better limit the quarrels to North where we (jacobites) are 'believed' to have a slight mejority.
3. First impression is the best impression, but why we (Jacobitea) lose impression now?
4. We (Jacobite leaders) cannnot fool all teh faithful all the tims. As time passes we are losing grip.
5. Those who leave the Indian territory directly go to heaven through the Patriarch, bypassing Thomas Pradhaman.
6, Antioch ia thankless, for they have taken away US, Gulf etc from us. We'll join Orthtodox and fight Patriarch if the the Patriarch do not correct it now.
Dear All What Jacobite Church Heirarchy is trying creating problems in Parumala by Constructing another new church is to close down Present Parumala Church!Otherwise there are no reason by now planning to make a new church for them as there are not even 10 members of Jacobite familiies around that area! H.B. Thomas I group always wanted to attack and kill MOSC as The Devil(satan) tried to tempt Jesus Christ!H.B. Thomas group are real Jacobites followers they won't create problems,chaos and unrest to other christian people/sects! These people (The H.B.ThomasI)are not devotees of Saint Gregorios!
Mr Kaippattoor Thankachan says that not only in Parumala, whereever one of the factions of the Malankara Church has a church, the other faction should not have a church. Does he really mean that? Then should the Catholicate Centers in Kothamangalam, Mulanthuruthy, Angamaly etc be closed?
when this man Fr. Darly joined our MOS church in 2002, i got an opportunity to attend one qurbana conducted by him in one of our churches in kandanadu west diocese. after the perunnal qurbana he made a lengthy speech. In that speech he had mentioned (rather vomitted) all the dirty political and spiritual manipulations of Thomas maprian and his fellow bishops. Darly acho, if i mention here all those diologues vomitted by you, then you will be out of jacobite faction if the jacobite leadership is really ashamed of such things, i don't think so. it was a better decision by him to go back to jacobite faction. at least we escaped from his dirty service. he left our church just because of one reason, he didn't get big churches for his service. we feel pity on you Fr. darly. better you remove your white dress and wear some kaavi dress and go to kaashi.
Dear Innocent What is true worship?What is Truth? What did Jesus Say about true worship? Your True Worship and True Faith in Protection of Throne in Antioch is real and true heretic teaching by Jacobites in Malankara! First of All learn What is Truth and Worship! Jacobite church and its heirarchy only show true warship in Malankara!
Dear,Malankara Syriac( Orthodox)Guy MOSC built Catholicate Centres in varius places but not ribel churches for playing Game of Politics! What Kaipattoor Thankachan said was that as from now both factions shall not build ribel churches in Kothamangalam.Angamali,or Mulamthurithy areas just next of present church buildings asfrom now to cause unrest/division among both factions/church! The aim of Jacobite Heirarchy is not worshipping God,but in the name God creating troubles/chaos in MOSC dominated Parumala!
The way I understand, Fr. Darly is an opportunist, not a credible person, so he doesn't deserve a reply. Not only that his writing is not different from an average Antyoch viswasi's. If Fr. Darly was not sent by Jacobite Leadership to Malankara Sabha they should reveal it now or they should show the courage to keep away from Fr. Darly.
Jacobite athibhadrasanam is losing confidence day by day. Now they wil soon launch a war against Patriarch who divided their church and took away all wealthy 'foreiners'. Wait for another year
Mr Thankachan Kaippattoor , Arkkengilum oru palliyulla sthalthu puthiya palli anuvadhikkaruthennu paranja thankalude ashayathodu alpam koottan njan aagrahikkunnu.Pazhaya pallikalude aduthu vachirikkunna ella puthiya pallikalum polichukalayanm.Kothamangalam,mulanthuruthy,Angamaly,Kolenchery,Venoor ,Puthuppally etc. Karanam ningal IOC kkar vadakkan bhadhrasanangalil aavashyamaya pallikal sthapichu kazhinjappol eni aarum palli sthapikkaruthu alle .Kollam ee kanji achayante budhi. sammathichu.
Whether you agree or not, it is a fact that the Malankara orthodox faction follows the the liturgy, vestments and traditions of the Syrian Orthodox Church.
Catholicate centres are built for members of the orthdox church to worship.
Is their any catholicate centre with 0 members. Those are places which have Orthodox members.
Unlike Parumala with not even one Jacobite member. If atleast 5 members are their in parumala, then its not a rebel church. However since their is noone, it is a REBEL CHURCH.
If IOC were to build rebel churches, it could have done in 1970's and many present JOC would have joined. We didnt do so, we waited for you ppl to come back, no one came, so wat do we do stil wait??? ot atleast build some chapels for people who have not where to go ????
Dear All Parumala is not Ayodhya! Parumala Thirumeni is the saint for MOSC!He was Declared as a Saint in 1947 byL/L H.H. Baselios GeevargheseII.Parumala Thirumeni did not give any property or its administration to Antiochean Partriarch or his appointee in Malankara!Present Jacobites formed a society in 2002 and they declared themselves as a seperate Church under Society! Therefor they have no claim in MOSC and its belongings! About New Church in Paumala,that is not necessary at all!jacobites can go there and participate in worship and sacrements there!The ultimate aim/agenda of H.B.Thomas I group is to close down the present Parumala church! H.B.Thomas I group(as a true christian or genuine christian) should have tolerance/perseverance like Yakkoob burdhana! They(jacobite heirarchy) try to cheat/deceive MOSC or public by false declarations/ statements,pretension,they are like cunning Jacob of Old testament! beware all evil plans of H.B.Thomas I group!We(MOSC) don't want any kind of unrest fight/war/insecurity in Parumala because of H.B.Thomas I group!
Mr.Vijayan We had already discussed about liturgy and vestments two/three months ago! You may go back our blog posts in the past and read it!You should first of all learnand know how liturgy came in (origin of liturgy) and when vestments etc are made in early church!Your Church Heirarchy never tell you the truth!
Dear Eldhose MOSC did not come as society of Cunning people in 2002!Our church is well knwon in Oriental orthodox group.But your 2002 society,which was registered for not obeying court rules,not paying court fees for cases filed by selves are only a arch diocese of SOC in Damacus! Your comments here shows your arrogence and imprudence!We are not going to tolerate your abusive writings here anymore!
Dear Eldhose, I can understand you belong to our group, but you don't write properlly. As an Antiochian faithful you should be more clear in your writing. These IOC people canonised Parumala Thirumeni in 1947. We didn't accept it. Only after our Patriarch accepted it in 1987, we accepted it. But Eldhose you need to be a bit more mature in addressing our opponents. They call us Puthencruz society because we are from Puthencruz and our church is registered as a society. But when you call them Kanjikuzhi society, you only project yourself as an imature person. You need to be more mature, otherwise these guys will not accept your posting.
Dear Innocent MTV is giving an oppertunity to everybody to express their comments here!However Jacobite church media never allow such a maganimous attitude to any MOSC guys to express their views in their(jacobites) media!The Mentality and attitude of Many Jacobites in Malankara are disgraceful!
hey every one has the right to build a church at any part of India so y u people are making unnecessary problems related to this church matters...God with the Jacobite church and the prayer of st gregorious with the jacobite church so no one can never prevent our catholicos and our coorilose frm the church construction..we the true faithfuls of Antioch are ready to give our life to preserve the true faith....LONG LIVE ANTIOCH MALANKARA RELATION
Dear Nidhin, I am anxious to go to Parumala to built the church. Will you also come. Our Bava is also planning for a great march from Vettickal to Parumala. You know our Bava is famous for such marches. Much more than God and the prayers of St.Gregorious we have the police under our control since we have Cibi Mathew there and the government is ours with our Sharma, Pinarayi & Kodiyeri. Who in Kerala has the guts to stop us from building the church. We will built the church and bring our Patriarch to consecrate it. Actually it should be made a Simhasana pally direct under the control of Patriarch since Patriarch has canoninsed the saint in 1987. So it is right to make it a simhasana Church. Afterall the property rights of Paruamala church under the metrakashi is under our Prince Patriarch of Antioch. So it is better we have this church direct under the Patriarch.
hey innocent..we are very much near to parumala and if there any programme of our church i wil come there...our kallissery region were under the control of niranam diocese at the time of st gregorious at that time he was our metran..he stayed at kallissery many times so we are very much want a church for us under the patriach control in the land of saint gregorious...i am sure that we can build a church there...and if God allows we can bring the patriach to the parumala at the time of koodhasha....
Dear Nithin Kallissery This is not a forum to show /express your emotions or puppet nature!Can you tell me /show mw oroof or evidence that Ahatulla bava was belonging to Antioch?L/L H.H. Yakkob III himself told that Mar Ahatulla was not from Antioch! Again can you give any evidence/record of Antiochean Partriarchs who lost their lives for Church in Malankara except Ahatulla Bava? Don't recite meaningless/senselss slogans !
Dear Nithin How did Come throne in Antioch?Who gave authority to make throne in Antioch!Jesus never told his apostles to make/build thrones on earth!Morevover read Luke 22:24-33 what Jesus told apostles During passover(establishment of Holy Eucharist/H.Qurbana)feast. Follow Jesus and his commandments! Also look at the history of Kerala(malankara Nazranikal)When did those Antioch people come in Malankara?
Dear Nithin Kallissery You are a Christian because of Antiochean/SOC!But Malankara Nazranis are Christians because of St.Thomas the apostle of Jesus Christ! I never heard any Antiocheans came in Malankara Baptizing Malankara people! When did your fathers/ancestors become Christians By Antiocheans? Who did Baptize your Ancestors,when and Where?Until, A.D.1876 no Antiocheans came in Malankara!
Beware - Recently there was some drama at the Patriarchal church at Puthupally. A copy of the Kattachira (weeping) photo has landed at that church and the story goes like this. A faithful from Puthupally bought a photo from Kattachira and kept it at their home. The photo started shedding tears. They reported to the Priest and he shifted it to the Church in Puthupally and since then no body can see the tears flowing out of the photo? So we can expect some similar drama at Parumala in these lines.
Nidhin and Innocent – Train yourselves to be good athletes. Because your skill for running will be tested when you land in Parumala to built the church
Nithin Kallisseri Ofcourse you must be rewarded properly for your untimely ill- advice!Malankara Nazranikal are brought up in heretic and unorthodox faith by JSOC!The true faith in Jesus are replaced by Canon of Jacobite Heirarchy who are teaching that HOLY CHURCH built on St.Peter and St.Peter is the rock! Nithin, First of All You Must read /learn Bible then History of early Church in Malankara!E.M.Philip wrote some history based on ARABI CANON in1907 which is the Bible for JOSC!
All that you have mentioned above are terrible lies and mistakes. Definitely would have read those in Jacobite books
If I dictate the history to you, you may not believe. So please go and read the works of secular historians.
1. Christianity in India – James Hough 2. A history of Christianity in India – Stephen Neill 3. A Short History of the Church of Malabar together with the Synod of Diamper – Michael Geddes 4. The Indian Christians of St. Thomas. An Account of the Ancient Syrian Church of Malabar – Leslie Brown 5. The Chaldaean Syrian Church in India – Mar Aprem 6. Christianity in Tranvancore, Mackenzie
Read any book written, by Catholic, Orthodox, Chaldean and Marthoma and find whether any of those about mentioned things which you have stated are there or not.
I don’t know what to say about this. Child please read some history. The word kananya doesn’t even have 100 years oldness. Earlier they were called “Thekkumbhagakar”.
Dear Fyodor This guy Nidhin Kallissery is taught by Jacobites especially Kanyamparambil Kurien Chor Episcopa or his lessons and other people like Moolayail Chor episcopa who are well known for their forged History/misinterpretation of Bible, and their blind devotion to throne of Antioch!He(Nidhin) cannot understand anything at this time!
valiyaparampan what u said? Nidhin and Innocent – Train yourselves to be good athletes. Because your skill for running will be tested when you land in Parumala to built the church...hey ithu oru christavanu chernnaa nadapadi ano...aradhanakku verunnavare thalli chathakan ano daivam padipichekunathu...ethu orthdox pithavanoo ee mahat vachanatahinte asoothrakan?? ningal kaniamparampil achaneyum moolayil achaneyum okkee anoo vimarshichekunathuu?..aradhan nadathan christavanu avakasham undu...athu daiva mahatvathinu vendiyanu athine thadanju thalamurakalku shapam veruthi vekkalee
hello ebenezar, Dont talk aganist Kanyamparambil Kurien Cor Episcopa you know he a great man with all knowladge abt christian history in the earth and also he is one of the greatest syriac scholar with all knoeledge. so his words are always correct
my brothers in christ, i wrote what i feel...i am damn sure that we the true malankara christians can never forgot the holy throne of antioch...coz they brought syrian culture to malankara...they brought holy qurbana and holy chrism to malankara...and they give permission for the great syrian migration....y u r insulting the great scholars like kaniamparampil achan and moolayil achen...they are well knwn xian historians and syriac pandits...u people hv no right to evaluate thosee grea8 persons...hey u people said to train for run...me ready to face ur attack coz my lord said to forgive to ur brothers...hey we all r christians following same belief but treating others as enemies... this behaviour of us is causing shame to whole christianity..think as a human...think as a christian.. fight for christ...not for other irrelevent things
You guys don't attack our Kuriyanparambil Kaniyan Korepiscopa and molayil achen. They are strong Antiochian faithful who lead us in satyavishwasam. They are strongfold and we our church is because of them today. If No Antiochian father comming to Malankara no Syrian Christians in India and no Christianity and nobody would have been saved. The place Knanaya thoma came was very peaceful. Only to save you guys in Malankara he came and see the number of people he saved. Today you people fight because of the good work those religious people did for you. He gave permission to migrate otherwise you people would have not seen a syrian till date. You should understand if you had not see a syrian what would have happened. How would your Achens & Bishops wear those vestments, what would have they read for your Qurbana, what sort of church you guys have prayed. Have you ever thought of all these but when it comes to criticising you people are first. You can't forget the pain and agony our father from Antiiochya suffered in this country. All because of that only you people follow our faith. You people should stop following our faith and give back our vestments and prayer books. Then we can go our way. Until then we will fight. We are ready to run because Ammaye maranallum Antiochyaa marakoola. Kuriamparambil & Molayil Korepiscopas faith is the same we also have. You people should read those sincere innocent news item that is being published by Molayil Achen in viswasa samrakshakan. Petta thalla sahikilla, for writing all these.
I am the least person to judge Kaniamparambil Chorepiscopa. However his book had many flaws, not sure if that’s deliberate or out of ignorance. Certainly he is not a historian, however a renowned Syriac Scholar. His knowledge in the language cannot be questioned. Nevertheless, should mention his lack of scholarly aptitude when it comes to historical research.
He did claim in his book, that all patriarchs visited Malankara, on their paternal wealth. Sorry to say, the church spent close to 5000 rupees on Pat. Peter III’s expenses. He did send several telegrams to Kottayam requesting monetary assistance. When is takes only 500 rupees in those days, for a travel from Mardin to Malankara, the expense of Pat. Peter III was more than 5000. Part of this monetary assistance was the personal savings of Dionsyius II himself. Upon arriving in Malankara, Patriarch dispatched his envoys to all major churches in Kerala, and collected amounts depending upon the size of the church. Which is clearly mentioned by the Syrian , Shemon Mar Divannasios in Kandanad Ghandavary. However as per our Kurien Kaniamparambil Achen, it is all paternal wealth. ; - )
And, Thekumbagakkar (Kananya) never had any relation with the Antiochians, only in the 20th century, did some Thekumbagakkar, in order to hide their bitter past and to disassociate them with their northern counter parts, the Catholic Syrian Christians started re-writing their history. No document prior to 20th century claims any connection between the Thekumbagam and Antioch. Every available historical document proves that, Thomas of Cana was an Armenian merchant, who fled persecution in the 9th century.
Second, West Syrianisation was not something which, we happily borrowed. Till Marthoma IX, we followed the Chaldean East Syriac Liturgy with minor West Syrian revisions, which was propounded by Bishop Ivanios who accompanied Yeldo Bava. Marthoma VII pleaded with the Syrian prelates not to change the Rite from East Syriac to West. However, we had a group that favored the Antiocheans, and that was Pulikottil Dionsyius I. It was during his time, that the Antiocheans could get their foot well placed in Malankara, roughly 200 years before. Biggest irony is that, under Pulikottil Dionsyius II, predecessor of Vattasheril thirumeni, the detachment process also started. It was bishops from the same family that supported Antiochean involvement, and later stopped their involvement.
The Antiochian fanaticism which sprouted 100 years before is still kept aloft, just because of our mismanagement. We were never successful in letting people know that, the Strongest Antiochean connection is in the last 200 years.
For those who say, we have chucked out the Syrians, read the constitution No.1 of IOC. What we inherited spiritually, liturgically and theologically is paid back in a befitting manner. We do not repay that by selling the whole church and her assets in Malankara to a church with whom we have hardly 200-250 years connection.
Dear Son Of Antiyok! First of You people must understand what is True faith and Who is your Master!Then talk about other things like great historians!Where did these pundits of Jacobite church learn history?What ever these guys are teaching is against the teachings of Christ!
DearKnight of Antioch All problems in Malankara started by your great Forefathers like C.J.Kurien in Malankara!Those days You people killed many innocents,and did many things which are NonChristian! Don't forget as you claim now as to be a saint!also remember what is curse of Lord! Hiding criminals in Church,Killing other people using the criminals and collecting money on account of charity,utilising the money for Killers,Gundas,and Mafias are godly activitites of JSOC ?
Dear Nithin Kallissery You must learn Christianity and Liturgy!What some people in JSOC wrote is not History or not Liturgy!MOSC had liturgy even before Antiocheans came in Malankara!What you see now are West Syriac Liturgy/Robes!Before that we had East Syrian Liturgy that is why Europeans called as SYRIAN Christian!Holy Qurbana/Chrism were here in Malankara from A.D.52 it is not your Antiocheans fathers who brought such in Malankara! Can you quote any supporting evidence from Bible regarding Throne in Antioch? Can you tell that priesthood in Church is converged through St.Peter/or through his throne in Antioch? About true worship what did Jesus Said?You think in early church they built churches just opposite of another church for worshipping God?Even The Constituition of India does not allow people to construct/build /make,temples/churches/worship places whereever they like/want!If you are a true Christian you are not going to create problems for other people! It is JSOC and you people should think that you are a Christian,human being and you should follow Christ Lord!For Worshipping God,you don't need to build ribel churches where there are churches already exist.
Dear Nithin Kallissery There were no syrian Migration came in Malankara as directed by any Antiocheans fathers!These are pure lies taught by your Holy and great historians and pundits of JOSC,who were authors of famous KAPPY CANON in Malankara!In early Days Malankara had no connection/ties with Antioch,or neither Antioch was not known to Malankara until A.D.1600 We are not treatening you,as JOSC are threatening MOSC!It is your heirarchy who called MOSC are enemies through Bull/Kaplana! Since you told us that Great migration of Syrian took place by Kalpana from Antioch Simhasanam can you produce a copy of Kalpana from the great Simhasanam?Can you tell us the In chrage of Throne by then A.D. 345?Even the History of Knanaya church does not say that!
Dear Antioch Knight What Christianity you are preaching/talking here? What Did Fr.Thekkara did in Murder case of T.M.Varghese?Using charity money for buying Killers, hiding them in churches? If you are a true Christian you do not even need to build a rebel church in Parumala!before start throwing mud on MOSC start cleaning your own home!First of all Parumala is not Ayodhya! There is no need for Jacobites to build a church next to existing Paumala church using same name, saint's name as you had alrady Church and Other spiritual centres in Many Places inthe name of Mar gregorios!
Your own Attitude is Un Christian!then you shall not judge others!
Dear Nithin You are damn sure about What?You could not prove or Substantiate anything you said here in this blog!When you comment something there should be some evidence or support!The Syrian Culture/Syrian Liturgy and Language was here in Malankara since beginning of Christianity in India!Jewish people were in Kerala before St.Thomas arrived here! The Knanaya Community never spread christianity or preached Gospel in Kerala/Malankara!They even exist as a seperate community/race in Kerala now!Even in the minutes of Nicene Synod there were no mention about Malankara/persian Churches! How can you Prove your alleged Claims of Antiochean Throne and Migration of Syrian was in order from Antioch in Malankara?
Dear Nithin Kallissery Those Pandits and great histiorians of yours are totally antiorthodox people as they teach against orthodoxy!First of all you should also learn what is orthodoxy and what are Oriental orthodox churches stand for!Without knowing orthodoxy you should not comment on MoSC forum! This not the place for you to comment what you feel based on non orthodox teachings and principles!
Whatever your Church heirarchy at present teach are not Biblical!They teach something for self existence and glorification!We MoSC are not taking you as enemy! It is H.B.Thomas I, Who told publically that MoSC are enemies of JSOC and barred/prohibited you people from Participating MOSC Liturgy and sacrements!
it is our longtime wish to do prayers in parumala....and we all are eagerly waiting for it....u people wont alw our aboons to do the prayers there...then what the other option..we need a church there..we bought land for it and with our money we are going to build a church...what problm u hv my friends....the metrans gv an assurance that the perunal wont cm at nov.. so no chance for problems there..... again pls friends we are christians we are sharing same belief...we r same in all manners...we r following the real faith..we should love each other...never cause worry for others...
Dear Nithin, One thing I have to admit. I had a girl friend in my college. I liked her but when I proposed to her. She said she is a Knanayite and told me that she can't marry because I am not in the community. It sadenned me. You shout for the same Patriarch like I. You ready to come to Parumala like me. Then why I can't marry from your community. So sad. I am now even trying from Metran Kashi, but I heard from one of the broker that one girl remarked, 'pulayenay kettiyallum patrikiz karenney kettilla ennu'. All I could say in reply was 'Ammaye maranallum Antiochyaye marakoola'. You should talk to your Bishops and let your girls to marry atleast we boys because we have one faith, one patriarch and one apostle which you know.
Dear Fyodor The travelling expenses of Peter III,Partriarch was from Mardin to London,London to Bombay ,So we had to remit 500 in advance for his journey and after his arrival 3000was paid to him.When Yeldho Bava and his entourage came in Malankara we had also paid thePersian/Armenian Traders (who arranged their trip)for their travelling to malankara upon their arrival in Malankara! This is Why I am telling that Those Pundits/Historians are making their own history for self existence and glorification!Kaniamparampil Chor Episcopa wrote that in Old testament Moses had a throne similarly St.Peter in new testament there is a throne!He may have knowledge in W. Syriac language.this does not mean he is great scholar or historian!
Dear Nithin Kallisseri What is the Difference in KNANAYA Jacobite/Syrian Jacobite?What is the difference between Jacobites in Malankara and MOSC! Do they have seperate sacrements or seperate Liturgy/worship/faith or Seperate Lords!?I want you to learn the geneaolgy of Jesus Christ!then answer properly to the comments made by Innocent!
Dear Nitin, So far I thought we Jacobites are only fanatcis. But I am shocked to see the comment you made. How can this happen? How can we get along? So whatever spirit you show is fake. If we can't have relation with your people why are you people supporting our Patriarch. Afterall he is not a Knanayaite. He belongs to Antiochya. Suppose I marry a knaniyte girl and our Patriarch is ready to conduct, do you still oppose it? Shocking, I don't think we can get along. I feel the metran kakshi is better than you guys. Really I am worried at the attitude of one knaniyte. Do all the knaniyite are like this. Infact my friend told me during the college when he saw me having friendship with that knaniyte girl, 'Aval charram kottiya' vittere. But I thought she respects our Patriarch and I too. So I thought we can become one.
hey samji and innocent, why u r people targeting the knananites here...its not a forum to discuss abt knanaya heritge..pls leave that topic..its our custom we wil folow it...nobody can change us..we are autonomous...we are not the part of issues between ioc and soc but i supported jsc here and coz of it all our community got blamed...hey 17 centuries we preserved knanaya identity and we wil follow it... i wont further gv cmnt related to any knanaya comments here...
Dr. Michael Satlow, famous Jewish historian and professor at Brown University, describes in great detail the endogamy among ancient Jews in chapter 6 of his book "Jewish Marriages in Antiquity". Dr. Satlow states that endogamy goes back to Biblical period. Marriages of Abram with Sarai, Isaac with Rebekkha, Jacob with Rachel and then Leah are good examples of the endogamy. Later Biblical writers like Deuteronomist endorsed endogamy while condemning exogamy. The endogamous marriages continued in Judea all the way until 586 BCE when Assyrians invaded Judea, destroyed the temple and exiled a large number of Jews to Babylon . This is "Babylonian Exile" period of Jewish history. While living in Babylon the Jews from Judea took a strict oath of endogamy because they believed that, to reach God's kingdom after judgment day "the chosen people of God should maintain purity not only ritually and morally, but also biologically" (Satlow-pg 141). They remained endogamous and anyone who mixed with Assyrians was removed from the community.
Knanaya law is not a written one. Instead, it has evolved through the centuries-old tradition of ‘endogamy’ combined with the ex-communication of those knanites who opt exogamy. Excommunication of those knanites who goes exogamous also has been a part of the tradition all through these centuries! Excommunication cannot be seen separated from the tradition of endogamy! Tradition constitutes the knanaya law. So, we cannot change this basic tradition / law that “ to be a part/ member of the Community, the knanite should not be married to a non-knanite.”
From the tradition that has been followed all through these centuries, it can be seen that to be a 'knanite' and to be a 'member of the community' are different! To be a 'knanite', one only need to be born of knanite parents. But to be a part / member of the community the above law has to be satisfied. Therefore, though all members of the community are knanites, all knanites, [ie. the knanites who opted exogamy], are not the members of the knanaya community
Endogamy is the only legal and socially acceptable way for the growth and existence of any endogamous community. That is the reason why knanaya has opted ‘endogamy’ as its basic and inevitable ingredient in the case of marriage of a the knanite! Any knanite who adopts ‘exogamy’ is acting by legal means against the growth and existence of the kna community. So he openly proves, by his action, that he has no love or loyalty to the kna community! So he should leave and spare the community. Thereafter, if he insists and attempts to remain in the kna community, with his family or not, he will be an enemy of knanaya! So it is quite logical to excommunicate him.
Knanaya is not a religion. It is community. As per its basic rules by tradition, 1. ‘to be a knanite, one has to be born to knanite parents’. 2. ‘to be a part/member of the community, a knanite should not be married to a non-knanite.’ So, a non-knanite could never become a knanite or a knanite, a non-knanite. Endogamy' is the very basis of existence and growth of knanaya. So from the very moment a knanite marries a non-knanite, the community ceases to recognize her as a part/member of the community, though her family might compromise! The community cannot have any compromise on this, because it is question of its existence! Thus, though all the members of the community are knanites, all knanites [ie. those who goes exogamous in marriage] are not members of the knanaya community.
Innocent our forefathers were jewish thats why we r following this tradition we converted as christian from jewish religion...pls understand those facts
Dear Nithin Kallissery What ever you stated here has no biblical support and evidence! You Must follow bible as A Christian!When you follow your unwritten laws or tradition you are not Christian!One of my Hindu Friend(Pattar/brahmin) married a Knanaya girl! although the girls family first did not recognise her after she had a baby the family are very close to her! another girl kananaya girl married a Catholic boy!The girls family did not distant themselves.They had accepted both the girl and boy!> these two incidents took place just near by your place/ area! I heard another Knanaya Boy is going to marry a Hindiu Girl very soon!any how you are not Christians as you do not follow teachings of Bible!
Dear Samji, Just check the cases you have quoted have got children. Whom knows if they marry out of the community they may not produce children. I am scared.
@Nidhin Bible says " I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." Rev 2:9. And I can show many more ref from Bible regarding this. So knanaya community is agianst the bible.Christian theology doesnt support the caste system. I challenge you to show any word from bible to show ur stand..
Dear NithinKallissery You(Knanaya community)are not Jewish!You are Descendants of Canaan,Whose father is Ham,Noah's Son! so do not confuse us here with your Jewish culture idea!The Jewish people are discendants of Isarel(jacob)!
Dear All The Jacobite Church in Malankara cannot digest what Babu Kuzimattom wrote about Parumala Church!for them everything thing "throne in Antioch"!Especially H.B.Thomas I and Mar Coorilose,they have no respect for Parumala!They should know what Parumala Thirumeni did in his life time and for what did he stand for!
You are questioning Nithin regarding whether their Knananaya custom is according to Bible. Poor boy. What about those religious leaders whom he uphold. Do they have a clue about the teachings of Christ and Bible. Nithin you can say, that you didn't the Bible from Knai Thoma so it is not necessary to follow that. Good excuse isn't it.
Another Church in Parumala is totally unnecessary for the faithful in Kerala and will only add to the problems between the Jacobite and Orthodox factions. There is absolutely no need for a Jacobite Church in Parumala as all people are allowed to worship at the current Church. Every Jacobite who stands for the truth knows this. Any leader promoting the need for a Jacobite Church in Parumala is acting like a wolf in sheep's clothing and any Jacobite who promotes this idea does not want any kind of peace or unity between both factions. The leaders are using the people to fight for them and their power, not for the Lord. If anyone is thinking of leaving the original Parumala Church for the new Jacobite Church in Parumala, they shouldn't waste their time in Kerala and move to Antioch as soon as possible. Also, if these Jacobite Achayans love Antioch so much, I am sure they would really love to marry off their daughters to real Syrian Orthodox men from Antioch.
Dear Nithin Your L/L Mar Clemis once took the Staff(amshavadi used by parumala saint)of Saint Gregorios from Parumala Church while conducting a wedding in Parumala church! He never returned the Staff to Parumala Church or to Parumala archives! I think Jacobites are keeping it That is the reason why you are siding with Jacobites to have seperate ParumalaPally over there by now!Nithin we are not blind to know your attitude and gesture!
Nithin Kallissery/and Knight/Son of Antioch etc Now we know what is the intention behind new church in Parumala by Jacobites!You people cannot expect miracles from stolen staff of late Saint Gregorios in Parumala by constructing another new church next to present ParumalaChurch!
Parula thirumeni was of united church .my home parish(St mary's Knanaya church Eraveperoor) foundation stone was laid by parumala thirumeni even st mary's kanaya church kattode stone was also laid by thirumeni. HE Clemis thirumeni never took the staff because u know orthdox faction never allows a bishop of syrian orthdox faction to enter there church that too parumala church. Nor we allow them to enter our church Now regarding the amshavadi , parumala thirumeni has forgeten it in aprem seminary once. I had the article of clemis thirumeni which was printed in malaya manorama about 10-12 years back when his grace described how he got amshavadi and he has reduced the height moreover he he uses this amshavadi in qurbana when his grace has some problems & he get relief . I think this itself is a big proof because if this would not have been truth manorama would have never dared to publish it ..
Dear Manu What I told you is the correct/right information as before1973, the church was united under MOSC catholicose and there was no division by then. By then(1969) there was a wedding ceremoney conducted by L/L Mar Clemis as he was coming from Kottayam He(mar Clemis) forgot his Staff(amshavadi)there(in Kottayam). In Parumala,Mar clemis used the staff of Parumala Thirumeni, That was how the Staff of St.Gregorios went to Aprem seminary!let me tell you that Mar Gregorios orthodox Student Movement in 1971/2year Conference was inagurated by L/L Mar Clemis(I was personlly there) and I also recieved Holy Qurbana from Mar Clemis by then!the present young generation do not know how was the MOSC between 1958 to 1972!
jacobite are mosc centric they always know for unprofessional way of working style.Suddenly some people become bishop i think it happens only jacobites.Person belives in principles ,history cannot follow the jacobite faith.bishop who came to our side theses father all are highly educated they cannot denie this.LETS PRAY OUR BROTHERS TO GET GOOD BISHOP WHO GUIDE BETTER MANNER
Dear All This retired IAS man and his arguments are baseless as we MOSC know the attitude and gesture of Jacobites in Malankara!he is trying to confuse people in Malankara! There is somebody using Parumalapally in orkut always creating unrest,disharmony,and unrealistic,untrue news in that web!Mr.Babu Paul if you are a true Christian,you are supposed to unite people and solve disputes rather than making the situation worse!
Babu Paul has been stepping on both boats for a long period. Now his real colour came out. He is using every stage he gets to tarnish Orthodox Church. Babu Paul's articles are outdated, they are mere play of words, no true content inside.
Malankara adopting the faith of syrian christian it does mean syrian Pathrikkeesu is our head.Runing after postion is not big achivement.THERE MANY ANTI INDIAN IN THIS COUNTRY FOR MONEY & POSTION THEY ARE READY EVEN BETRAY THERE OWN RACES & COUNTRY.ACCORDING JACOBITE THEORY INDIAN HEAD SHOULD BRITIAN QUEEN BEAUSES THEY RULED US .STILL USING THEIR SYSTEM.
Dear Eldhose There is no faith in Antioch! Faith in Jesus only who is our Lord!Christianity did not originate in Antioch!So stop your nonsenses!Again Christ's priesthood is not enthroned in Antioch!Salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ!So Whatever your jacobite heretic teachings are antichrist or non christian!
Mr.Babu Paul you cannot compare yourselves with ordinary orthodox people and Writer Babu Kuzhimattom!Babu Paul was trying to confuse the ordinary faithful by arguing that Parumalapally name and web site name used by Jacobites in Malankara are not confusing! moreover Babu Paul should also know in Puthupally and many places How Jacobites used behave in the past as well as now with the MOSC church faithful and public! Near Kollam There is A big MOSC Parish with600 family members.Just opposite there is a Jacobite Church with 20 members only.This Jacobite people always try to inconvenience and try to disrupt services in MOSC parish during sunday worship and feasts days in many ways!with that kind of attitude and gesture of Jacobite people in Parumala there will not be Peace at all! This retired IAS guy even tried to make/create Parumala as Ayodhya! he did not even know the real AYODHYA issue!This attitude of Babu Paul are totally UnChristian! he is trying to catch fish in mudwater!Again true worship is not building rebel churches for creating distubances in existing peaceful atmosphere!
The Former IAS retired Civil servant has no commen sense!If the issue was supposed to be Kitchen Matter of Malankara Nazranis,he is the one who started earlier writing articles in Media about Parumala church and St.Gregorios!Why did he start this matter to be public with his own writings in the first place?The idea of jacobites are not creating /making worship place in Parumala(as they have no faithful members there now) but creating problems like they always used to do in other areas diturbance/unrest/violation of law and order in the name St.Gregorios,so that the existing ParumalaPally(MoSc) can be closed! This evil attitude/mentality of Jacobites are well known to MOSC!He(babu Paul) is another devil posing himself as a sacred guy!
പോടാ നിന്റെ ഒന്നും ഒരു സമ്മതവും പരുമലയില് പള്ളി പണിയാന് ഞങ്ങള്ക്ക് വേണ്ട .നീ യൊക്കെ ആരാ എത്ര ആള് കളിയ്ക്കാന് .നീയൊക്കെ എല്ലാ യാക്കോബായ പള്ളികളുടെയും വാതുക്കല് പാര പള്ളിപനിതപ്പോള് ആരും നിന്നോടോന്നും ചോതിചില്ലല്ലോ .അത് കൊണ്ട് മക്കള് ഗുണ്ടായിസം കാട്ടാതെ അടങ്ങിയിരിക്കു .പള്ളി ഞങ്ങള് പണിയും കട്ടായം മോനെ .നീയല്ല നിന്റെയൊക്കെ ചത്തുപോയ വട്ടശ്ശേരി വന്നാലും ഞങ്ങള് പള്ളി പണിയും പരുമലയില് .നിന്റെയൊക്കെ കള്ളാ കാതോലിക്ക മാരുടെ കുറ്റം ആദ്യം അന്വേഷിക്കു .എന്നിട്ട് മതിയെട യാക്കോബായ സഭയുടെ കുറ്റാന്വേഷണം .ഭാര്യയും പിള്ളാരും ഉള്ള എത്ര മെത്രന്മാര് നിങ്ങള്ക്കുന്ടെട തെണ്ടികളെ .എന്നിട്ടാനോട വര്ത്തമാനം പറയുന്നത് .പോടാ
Sri Babu Paul supported O Rajagopal and BJP in a pariment election, hoping that time BJP would come to power in Delhi. In an interview with Asinet (I think the channel's name is correct) Sri Babu Paul said he helped RSS while he was the home secretary. Unfortuanely for Mr Paul, BJP lost miserably adn manmohan became the PM. All his hopes of getting a post was gone. Since then Sri paul has been writing controversial things and keeping himself in the limelight.
i think we should discount him understanding well that he uses all oportunities to advace himself evern at the cost of anybody. I'm sorry that we have such people in our midst who lacks principles
The above letter by Malankarajsc proves how substandard these people are! How thee kind of people live as a church? It will take atleast another 4 generatons for these people to come to the level of orthodox church.
When the leaders themselves believe in abusing writers or people who think independently, we can imagine the standard of the laity.
Ever since the visit of HH patriarch in 2008 October, Jacobite have NOT won a single issue. They are losing each issue and jacobite faithful hemselves have turned against HB Thomas I. HH Zacha bava has clipped already the wings of Hb Thomas Thirumeni and Thomas bava is too weak to fight against it. UPPU THINNAVAN VELLAM KUDIKKUM.
The only hope for HB THOMAS is to bring eternal peace in Malankara by leading a talk for unity of the church... Or else history would record this person as a person who killed unity and peace
Parumal palliperunnal in 2010 was teh best ever, thanks to the controversy by the Jacobite leaders (protestants of malankara sabha) the aAthibrasanam's local bishop is trying all his poltical conectiosn to advance his agenda.
as per thir own constitution they ae only an ACHDIOCESE OF THE ANTIOCH CHURCH. Please use the word 'ATHIBHADRAASANAM' to refer to teh jacobites' 'church'
Dear All This Guy Malankara JSC belong to primitive community which does not know God or humanity of Jesus Christ!I dont'know how people can behave like this claiming to be MJSC!Let Us Pray to God Almighty to forgive him for his ignorance and barbaric behaviour!
WHAT FR. DARLEY LACKS IS INTEGRITY. His speeches and switching loyalties according to convenience have raised doubts about his strength of character in both jacobite and Orthodox camps.
No doubt Fr Darley is an OPPORTUNIST. He swtiched his sides according to siuations and now is all out to prove that his present loyalty. But he is not trusted in both the camps
More than a year ago, Mathrubhumi weekly carrid a letter by Fr Darly severely criticising Jacobite church for honouring worst corrupt and dishonest peope with chruch titles like chavalier, commander etc.
One of his strategies is to write letters to the editor to some Malayalam magazines which ONLY EXPOSE HIMSELF. Now he has found an issue to prove his worth. Don't know how much this mood will last!
Even though the Supremr court judgemnt is in Orthodox Group's favour Jacobites still control Manarkattu Church. Is it OK to build another St.Mary's Church next to Manarkat church for those who cannot worship peacefully at Manarcad Church?
Dear All Fr.Darley do not know the Church in Malankara and St.Gregorios of Parumala!He says that St.Grgorios does not know Malankara orthodox Church!That means Fr,Darley does not believe in Departed Souls are alive or departed Soul of L/L St.Gregorios!for more than centuary MOSC is conducting all worship service and Feasts at Parumala! During his end times St.Gregorios entrusted the keys of Prumala Seminary and told/reminded all his duties at seminary.Mar Gregorios also gave his symbols of position etc to vattseeril Remban Fr. Geevarghese!At the time of his departure(end of life/time of death)L/LH.H. Geevarghese Baselioc Catholicose(Rev.Fr.Punnoose Remban)was with Parumala mar Gregorios! How come that Fr.Darley says that Mar Gregorios did not know MOSC? is he sane priest?
Mr Babu Paul had said that disciples of Parumala Thirumeni as in both camps. But WHOM DID Parumala Thirumeni entrusted everything before his death? TAT MAKES THE POINT. It is NONE OTHER than VATTSERIL THIRUMENI whom the Saint knew well.!
Idon,t know why did you raised discussion about knanaya tradition and customs in here .This is not a subject here so editor or RESPONSIBLE pERSONS , you must stop this discussion here other wise you haveSECERT INTENSION to encouraging this matter .I don't want mention anybody's name here, but the customs and traditions are the identity of a society, community , state and nation etc , nobody cannot question this . India is very big country, so many states and many languages ,customs and tradition existing in India ,that is the identity of india[iniversity in diversity}. Knanaya people has their own tradition and customs as st.thomas christions in kearala. The malankara Orthodox church known as orthodox church because thats nature is orthodox , is this came from Bible?malankra orthodox churches has many customs and tradition , do you know, in st.george chuch puthuppally 'doing kozhivettu'while celebrating feast,is this biblical .the orthodox churches consider bible as a primary document of the church and also our forfathers writings and saying,are very important same like Bible .do you think,we want neglect our knanaya forfathers writings and words ?.somebody said knanaya historians cleverly wrote knanaya history-that is utter nonsense, you can read kerala history and also malankara orthodox historians orthodox books as well.Just remember if you are continuing syriac worship and orthodox tradition that is the result of syrian knanaya knanaya migration to kerla other wise you may be part of RC.ENDOGOMY SYSTOM is the main characerisic of knanaya, any knanaya can marry from out of the community, but he/ she will be excommunicated from the community, that is the law , custom and tradition. Why MALANKARA ORTHODOX CHURCH keep Cheramar churches as a seperate in this modern world ? why not absurbe them as a malankara orthodox makkal? why not your parents encourage your children from backword communities?,why you are conducting false prayer and upavasam at churches after kashi vazhakku,why you are encroching your brothers property and giving petition against your brothers?why you are loosing your christian witness?many priests and bishops shouting at streets and acting like gundas,. many people , politicians judges and people from other religions are contempting about your chursch, is this all are biblical?.think about it and find answer. nigalude kannile valiya koleduthittu pore makkale njangalude karadu edukkan?.
.I don't want mention anybody's name here, but the customs and traditions are the identity of a society, community , state and nation etc , nobody cannot question this . India is very big country, so many states and many languages ,customs and tradition existing in India ,that is the identity of india[iniversity in diversity}. Knanaya people has their own tradition and customs as st.thomas christions in kearala. The malankara Orthodox church known as orthodox church because thats nature is orthodox , is this came from Bible?malankra orthodox churches has many customs and tradition , do you know, in st.george chuch puthuppally 'doing kozhivettu'while celebrating feast,is this biblical .the orthodox churches consider bible as a primary document of the church and also our forfathers writings and saying,are very important same like Bible .do you think,we want neglect our knanaya forfathers writings and words ?.somebody said knanaya historians cleverly wrote knanaya history-that is utter nonsense, you can read kerala history and also malankara orthodox historians orthodox books as well.Just remember if you are continuing syriac worship and orthodox tradition that is the result of syrian knanaya knanaya migration to kerla other wise you may be part of RC.ENDOGOMY SYSTOM is the main characerisic of knanaya, any knanaya can marry from out of the community, but he/ she will be excommunicated from the community, that is the law , custom and tradition. Why MALANKARA ORTHODOX CHURCH keep Cheramar churches as a seperate in this modern world ? why not absurbe them as a malankara orthodox makkal? why not your parents encourage your children from backword communities?,why you are conducting false prayer and upavasam at churches after kashi vazhakku,why you are encroching your brothers property and giving petition against your brothers?why you are loosing your christian witness?many priests and bishops shouting at streets and acting like gundas,. many people , politicians judges and people from other religions are contempting about your chursch, is this all are biblical?.think about it and find answer. nigalude kannile valiya koleduthittu pore makkale njangalude karadu edukkan?.
Dear Babu Chingavanam MOSC people did not drag anymatter of Knanaya issue here for dicussion!It is your own community people who brought the issue here!So Just cool yourselves! Your Community should be impartial in Disputes/fueds of Malankara Church! However your own people involved in it dragged the isuue here for comments!So better keep quiet rather than making untimely, unnecessary ,and unwanted comments here!
Dear Babu Chingavanam It is not MOSC people who dragged Knanaya matters or issue in This Blogs for dicussion/comments!Your people joined with JSOC and Critisized and abused in this Forum! It is just like the adage/proverb in Malayalam the way you act now:-" The dog ate the rice(food) for the Carpenter woman and it also had Bitten the Lady! Yet again the dog barks and keeps mumering"! so better keep away from the blog comments!Syrian Liturgy/worship followed by MOSC is not due to Knanaya Community exodus or migration to Kerala and presence of your community In Malankara!
DearBabu Chingavan Could you give an account of Churches/properties encroached by MOSC in Malankara as alleged by yourselves!Did we(MOSC) encroach any of your churchproperty? Those who made a seperate church under societies act in 2002 to escape S/C verdict cannot claim any property/church which in under MOSC as per 1934 constituition/administration! The Syrian Migration under Knai Thomas in A.D.345 took place When Mar Semeon Bershebe was Catholicose in Persian Church of St.Thomas,which was then not under authority/see of Antioch! Antioch only consecrated A mafriana in Persian Church of Thigris in A.D.628 called Mar Morusso!Eddesa was not under antioch by A.D.345!
Opportunistic laity leaders and priests have tried to twist the church to suit their greedy interests. I am sorry that such people still suvive by playing GAMES. They know they get attention ONLY by writing or speaking ugly things. Let heaven forgive them!
Mr. Mohan Mathew, You need Trazadone 500 MG (BID) for the currently infected disease. We all know who is Babu Paul since we were little children. I don’t think he needs an introduction in the social scenario of Kerala. (Off course the “Helping Big Brothers” of IOC also know him in a positive or negative way) Who is benefitted from this controversy? I didn’t know this Kuzhimattam before. But now I know him. This is exactly like the Hollywood Stars getting married and divorcing 5 or 6 times in their life in order to get the media coverage and media attention. I don’t think Babu Paul does need that. I know Mr. Mathew may have a thousand counter-arguments to win this “ARGUMENT GAMES”. There is an established faith in Kerala that in order to get the popular support, a Christian has to deny his Church, faith and pretend himself as a revolutionary. I believe Mr. Kuzhimattam has accomplished this goal. And once again, go back and read both articles, Mr. Mathew and use your cognitive skills and recognize who is polite and gentle. If you are not a color blinded Orthodox man, I believe you can see it. God bless you my brother.
Dear Pallikapyar What is an established Faith in Kerala? Who established the faith and when? What is the basic reasons for Jacobite's faction to build a new church in Parumala? you think and diagonise about it first! also try to learn about Yakkob Burdhana and his real life rather than carrying his badge for name sake!
115 comments:
Kalu Mattathinte usthadaya Fr. Darly ye Vilikkunnavar Achanayathukondu Thery Parayathirikkan Sradhikkuka.
Adutha Aazcha Thomas Pradhaman Parumalayil Kallidumennu Kelkkunnu. Mar Coorilos Sunday Thirike Ethum.
Pathrikkeesu Bava Parumalayil Kallidunna Karyavum Vilakkiyittundo? Thomas Bavaye Koochy Kettiyittu Athu Mathram Vilakkathirunnathu Mosamayippoyi.
Dear All,
This Priest Fr.Darley is another oppertunist and politician.He can write and speak for anybody as he get something for that!He does not have a common sense of a priest!He likes politricking!
The Existence of Jacobites are depending on their faith in the throne in Antioch! They want Split in the church and divide! Actually these are(Parumala issue) devil/evil plan by Jacobite heirarchy!
parumalayil palli panithal orthodox karkku enda kuzhappam.````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Fr.Darly your are the darling of our Antiochian Movement. Good you came back after you went with Methrakashi. People say you came back because you didn't get any position. Don't worry, you be in the forefront of this Parumala fight. You will be rewarded. Our Patriarch in Antioch will definitely give you a position. Now don't forget about the foundation stone laying. Our Thomas Bava is going to do it. And let us see what these guys can do.
He is talking about logic, in unlogical way. Saint Gregorios departed in 1902. Adhaman Society started in 2002. Still claiming he belong to his faction. Last paragraph, he is saing Keralam is not ruled by IOC. no body can check whether thay have any family in Parumala or not? ..he himself dont know what he is saying...even then he is priest....
Yes Akash,
Why are these orthodox people so concerend with we building church there. We are just building a church in Parumala for true worship. We only have genuinity in traditions and rituals because we got it from Antioch.These people cheated our Patriarch. All the rest are fake. Antiochya Simhasanam neenal vazatty.
Dear All,
History says that Parumala thirumeni at his last hour of this saintly life on earth entrusted 'the keys and the documents of Parumala seminary and everything he possessed' to his well-beloved disciple 'Geeverghese Ramban(Vattasseril thirumeni)'. What does it imply?
Parumala thirumeni, in his extrasensory perception or spiritual insight, might have known that Vattaseril thirumeni was the right person to be his successor or the custodian of the Malankara sabha. It was all the will of God that Parumala pally ( the holy land in Kerala) must be governed by the Malankara Metropolitan of the Malankara Orthodox syrian Church.
God bless!
About a year ago Fr Darly wrote a letter a to the editor in Mathrubhoomi weeekly. It describes about the Jacobite Archdiocese's efforts to decorate criminals with special medals like Commander, Chavalier etc I have a copy of the issue with me.
Fr Darley, I need no better proof than this to believe what Sam wrote about you here.
Don't know why.
All jacobite Athibradrasanam plans go awry these days.
Thomas Pradahaman who does not have powers beyongthe sea is seen as a nuisance by many Jacobite faithful.
LESSONS EVERY JACOBITE LEADER SHOULD LEARN
1. Better NOT Provoke the Orthodox Church, becasue FAILURE is certainly ours (Jacobites')
2. Better limit the quarrels to North where we (jacobites) are 'believed' to have a slight mejority.
3. First impression is the best impression, but why we (Jacobitea) lose impression now?
4. We (Jacobite leaders) cannnot fool all teh faithful all the tims. As time passes we are losing grip.
5. Those who leave the Indian territory directly go to heaven through the Patriarch, bypassing Thomas Pradhaman.
6, Antioch ia thankless, for they have taken away US, Gulf etc from us. We'll join Orthtodox and fight Patriarch if the the Patriarch do not correct it now.
parumalayil palli paniyan moham undakil athuvenda athu malankaramakal athu samathikilla.. oru jacobite sabha vanirikunu enthu patti nigaludey thalavan ayirikuna Pathrikkeesu Bava thanne paragiley vendaannu..hmm pinne nigal puthencruzil ellavarumkodioru thirumanam eduthallo enne Pathrikkeesu Bavaney eni keralamtheytu kondavandaannu thirumanichallo..enthu patti makalley kashtam etha jacobite sabha randavunnu..
Dear All
What Jacobite Church Heirarchy is trying creating problems in Parumala by Constructing another new church is to close down Present Parumala Church!Otherwise there are no reason by now planning to make a new church for them as there are not even 10 members of Jacobite familiies around that area!
H.B. Thomas I group always wanted to attack and kill MOSC as The Devil(satan) tried to tempt Jesus Christ!H.B. Thomas group are real Jacobites followers they won't create problems,chaos and unrest to other christian people/sects!
These people (The H.B.ThomasI)are not devotees of Saint Gregorios!
Mr Kaippattoor Thankachan says that not only in Parumala, whereever one of the factions of the Malankara Church has a church, the other faction should not have a church. Does he really mean that? Then should the Catholicate Centers in Kothamangalam, Mulanthuruthy, Angamaly etc be closed?
Dear Darly Acha,
Achan Munpu Paranja pala kaaryangalum (Orthodox Sabhayil Aayirunnappol) Pampady Velloor St. Thomas Orthodox Palliyile idavaka janangal marannittilla. Annu achan paranjathu Parisudha Parumala Thirumeni Malankara Orhtodox Sabhakku Maathram avakashappettathanennum, Pathriyarkees vibhagathinu aallukale koode koottan oru parisudhane venamayirunnu ennum ellam paranjathu angu vizhungi kaanumayirikkum. Pakshe njangalkku athu athra pettannu marakkan kazhiyillallo. Achanu sthanamanangal thannukondirunnappol orthodox sabha nallathum allathappol cheethayum. Ee vakkukal oru purohithanu yojichathanennu achan vicharikkunnundenkil aa samskaram onnu kondu mathramaanu achan orthodox sabhakku purathekku poyathu. Kottayam Bhadrasanathil Achan undayirunnappol achan polum chinthichittundavilla achanu pathriyarkees vibhagathilekkulla madakkam. Pakshe achan thanne chodichu vangiya Kochi Bhadrasanathilekkulla transfer achante kanakkukootalukal thettichu. Kochi bhadrasanathil achanu valare cheriya palliyayirunnu kittiyathu ennullathum valiya varumaanam aa pllikalil ninnum kittilla ennum manassilakkiyathukondavam achan veendum pathriyarkees vibhagathilekku madangiyathu. Ee sambavangal kaaranam achanu orthodox sabhaye kuttappeduthukayallathe mattu maargangal onnum illa. Aaa spritilit njangalum ulkondukollam. Allathe Achante ee lekhanathinu mattu praadhanyam onnum nalakendathilla.....
Jithu Thomas John
Dubai
when this man Fr. Darly joined our MOS church in 2002, i got an opportunity to attend one qurbana conducted by him in one of our churches in kandanadu west diocese. after the perunnal qurbana he made a lengthy speech. In that speech he had mentioned (rather vomitted) all the dirty political and spiritual manipulations of Thomas maprian and his fellow bishops. Darly acho, if i mention here all those diologues vomitted by you, then you will be out of jacobite faction if the jacobite leadership is really ashamed of such things, i don't think so. it was a better decision by him to go back to jacobite faction. at least we escaped from his dirty service. he left our church just because of one reason, he didn't get big churches for his service. we feel pity on you Fr. darly. better you remove your white dress and wear some kaavi dress and go to kaashi.
Dear Innocent
What is true worship?What is Truth?
What did Jesus Say about true worship?
Your True Worship and True Faith in Protection of Throne in Antioch is real and true heretic teaching by Jacobites in Malankara!
First of All learn What is Truth and Worship! Jacobite church and its heirarchy only show true warship in Malankara!
Dear,Malankara Syriac( Orthodox)Guy
MOSC built Catholicate Centres in varius places but not ribel churches for playing Game of Politics! What Kaipattoor Thankachan said was that as from now both factions shall not build ribel churches in Kothamangalam.Angamali,or Mulamthurithy areas just next of present church buildings asfrom now to cause unrest/division among both factions/church!
The aim of Jacobite Heirarchy is not worshipping God,but in the name God creating troubles/chaos in MOSC dominated Parumala!
The way I understand, Fr. Darly is an opportunist, not a credible person, so he doesn't deserve a reply. Not only that his writing is not different from an average Antyoch viswasi's.
If Fr. Darly was not sent by Jacobite Leadership to Malankara Sabha they should reveal it now or they should show the courage to keep away from Fr. Darly.
Jacobite athibhadrasanam is losing confidence day by day. Now they wil soon launch a war against Patriarch who divided their church and took away all wealthy 'foreiners'.
Wait for another year
Mr Thankachan Kaippattoor ,
Arkkengilum oru palliyulla sthalthu puthiya palli anuvadhikkaruthennu paranja thankalude ashayathodu alpam koottan njan aagrahikkunnu.Pazhaya pallikalude aduthu vachirikkunna ella puthiya pallikalum polichukalayanm.Kothamangalam,mulanthuruthy,Angamaly,Kolenchery,Venoor ,Puthuppally etc. Karanam ningal IOC kkar vadakkan bhadhrasanangalil aavashyamaya pallikal sthapichu kazhinjappol eni aarum palli sthapikkaruthu alle .Kollam ee kanji achayante budhi. sammathichu.
Whether you agree or not, it is a fact that the Malankara orthodox faction follows the the liturgy, vestments and traditions of the Syrian Orthodox Church.
@ Malankara Syriac Orthodox
Catholicate centres are built for members of the orthdox church to worship.
Is their any catholicate centre with 0 members. Those are places which have Orthodox members.
Unlike Parumala with not even one Jacobite member. If atleast 5 members are their in parumala, then its not a rebel church. However since their is noone, it is a REBEL CHURCH.
If IOC were to build rebel churches, it could have done in 1970's and many present JOC would have joined. We didnt do so, we waited for you ppl to come back, no one came, so wat do we do stil wait??? ot atleast build some chapels for people who have not where to go ????
Dear All
Parumala is not Ayodhya! Parumala Thirumeni is the saint for MOSC!He was Declared as a Saint in 1947 byL/L H.H. Baselios GeevargheseII.Parumala Thirumeni did not give any property or its administration to Antiochean Partriarch or his appointee in Malankara!Present Jacobites formed a society in 2002 and they declared themselves as a seperate Church under Society! Therefor they have no claim in MOSC and its belongings!
About New Church in Paumala,that is not necessary at all!jacobites can go there and participate in worship and sacrements there!The ultimate aim/agenda of H.B.Thomas I group is to close down the present Parumala church! H.B.Thomas I group(as a true christian or genuine christian)
should have tolerance/perseverance like Yakkoob burdhana! They(jacobite heirarchy) try to cheat/deceive MOSC or public by false declarations/ statements,pretension,they are like cunning Jacob of Old testament! beware all evil plans of H.B.Thomas I group!We(MOSC) don't want any kind of unrest fight/war/insecurity in Parumala because of H.B.Thomas I group!
Read an interesting article in GEORGAIN MIRROR (see home page right hand side) about new parumala pally
JACOBITE CHURCH NDA CHURCH NDA ADUTHU NINNUM JACOBITE CHURCH IL NINNUM ORTHADOX KAR ERANGANEM ANNA KAIPATTOR NDA SUGGESTION NJANGAL SWEEKARIKUNNUM.ANGANE SAMBAVICHAL KANJIKUZHI SABHA YUDA ANGAMALY DICOSE BIGZERO AKUM.PINNE PARUMALA THIRUMENI ARAYIRUNNENU JANGALE PADIPPIKENDA.KANJIKUZHI SABHA POTTIMULAKUNNATHINU MUNPU CHATTURUTHIL THIRUMENI KALAM CHAYTHIRUNNU ANNU MANASILAKENAM.
Mr.Vijayan
We had already discussed about liturgy and vestments two/three months ago! You may go back our blog posts in the past and read it!You should first of all learnand know how liturgy came in (origin of liturgy) and when vestments etc are made in early church!Your Church Heirarchy never tell you the truth!
Dear Eldhose
MOSC did not come as society of Cunning people in 2002!Our church is well knwon in Oriental orthodox group.But your 2002 society,which was registered for not obeying court rules,not paying court fees for cases filed by selves are only a arch diocese of SOC in Damacus!
Your comments here shows your arrogence and imprudence!We are not going to tolerate your abusive writings here anymore!
Dear Eldhose,
I can understand you belong to our group, but you don't write properlly. As an Antiochian faithful you should be more clear in your writing.
These IOC people canonised Parumala Thirumeni in 1947. We didn't accept it. Only after our Patriarch accepted it in 1987, we accepted it. But Eldhose you need to be a bit more mature in addressing our opponents. They call us Puthencruz society because we are from Puthencruz and our church is registered as a society. But when you call them Kanjikuzhi society, you only project yourself as an imature person. You need to be more mature, otherwise these guys will not accept your posting.
Dear Innocent
MTV is giving an oppertunity to everybody to express their comments here!However Jacobite church media never allow such a maganimous attitude to any MOSC guys to express their views in their(jacobites) media!The Mentality and attitude of Many Jacobites in Malankara are disgraceful!
hey every one has the right to build a church at any part of India so y u people are making unnecessary problems related to this church matters...God with the Jacobite church and the prayer of st gregorious with the jacobite church so no one can never prevent our catholicos and our coorilose frm the church construction..we the true faithfuls of Antioch are ready to give our life to preserve the true faith....LONG LIVE ANTIOCH MALANKARA RELATION
marthoma sleehayil ninnu jenmam edutha malankara sabhaye potti valarthiyathu antiocha enna ammayanu athu arum marakale...aa simhasanathinte kalpana anusarichu ivide vannu malankaraye satyavishvasathil urapichathu knanayakarumanu...ithonnum arum marannu pokalee....malankara sabhayku vendi jeevan beli [Ahatulla Bava] nalkiya pithakanmareyum arum marakalee.. pandu kabrian enna portughese karanodu ividundayirunna suriyani yuvakanmar paranjathu.."njangal christavar ayathu antiochayude pithavil ninnu anu ennanuu"...nammude parambaryavum paitrikavum avakashavumanu antiocha simhasanam
Dear Nidhin,
I am anxious to go to Parumala to built the church. Will you also come. Our Bava is also planning for a great march from Vettickal to Parumala. You know our Bava is famous for such marches. Much more than God and the prayers of St.Gregorious we have the police under our control since we have Cibi Mathew there and the government is ours with our Sharma, Pinarayi & Kodiyeri. Who in Kerala has the guts to stop us from building the church. We will built the church and bring our Patriarch to consecrate it. Actually it should be made a Simhasana pally direct under the control of Patriarch since Patriarch has canoninsed the saint in 1987. So it is right to make it a simhasana Church. Afterall the property rights of Paruamala church under the metrakashi is under our Prince Patriarch of Antioch. So it is better we have this church direct under the Patriarch.
hey innocent..we are very much near to parumala and if there any programme of our church i wil come there...our kallissery region were under the control of niranam diocese at the time of st gregorious at that time he was our metran..he stayed at kallissery many times so we are very much want a church for us under the patriach control in the land of saint gregorious...i am sure that we can build a church there...and if God allows we can bring the patriach to the parumala at the time of koodhasha....
Dear Nithin Kallissery
This is not a forum to show /express your emotions or puppet nature!Can you tell me /show mw oroof or evidence that Ahatulla bava was belonging to Antioch?L/L H.H. Yakkob III himself told that Mar Ahatulla was not from Antioch!
Again can you give any evidence/record of Antiochean Partriarchs who lost their lives for Church in Malankara except Ahatulla Bava? Don't recite meaningless/senselss slogans !
Dear Nithin
How did Come throne in Antioch?Who gave authority to make throne in Antioch!Jesus never told his apostles to make/build thrones on earth!Morevover read Luke 22:24-33 what Jesus told apostles During passover(establishment of Holy Eucharist/H.Qurbana)feast.
Follow Jesus and his commandments!
Also look at the history of Kerala(malankara Nazranikal)When did those Antioch people come in Malankara?
Dear Nithin Kallissery
You are a Christian because of Antiochean/SOC!But Malankara Nazranis are Christians because of St.Thomas the apostle of Jesus Christ! I never heard any Antiocheans came in Malankara Baptizing Malankara people! When did your fathers/ancestors become Christians By Antiocheans? Who did Baptize your Ancestors,when and Where?Until, A.D.1876 no Antiocheans came in Malankara!
Beware - Recently there was some drama at the Patriarchal church at Puthupally. A copy of the Kattachira (weeping) photo has landed at that church and the story goes like this. A faithful from Puthupally bought a photo from Kattachira and kept it at their home. The photo started shedding tears. They reported to the Priest and he shifted it to the Church in Puthupally and since then no body can see the tears flowing out of the photo? So we can expect some similar drama at Parumala in these lines.
Nidhin and Innocent – Train yourselves to be good athletes. Because your skill for running will be tested when you land in Parumala to built the church
Nithin Kallisseri
Ofcourse you must be rewarded properly for your untimely ill- advice!Malankara Nazranikal are brought up in heretic and unorthodox faith by JSOC!The true faith in Jesus are replaced by Canon of Jacobite Heirarchy who are teaching that HOLY CHURCH built on St.Peter and St.Peter is the rock!
Nithin, First of All You Must read /learn Bible then History of early Church in Malankara!E.M.Philip wrote some history based on ARABI CANON in1907 which is the Bible for JOSC!
@Nithin
All that you have mentioned above are terrible lies and mistakes. Definitely would have read those in Jacobite books
If I dictate the history to you, you may not believe. So please go and read the works of secular historians.
1. Christianity in India – James Hough
2. A history of Christianity in India – Stephen Neill
3. A Short History of the Church of Malabar together with the Synod of Diamper – Michael Geddes
4. The Indian Christians of St. Thomas. An Account of the Ancient Syrian Church of Malabar – Leslie Brown
5. The Chaldaean Syrian Church in India – Mar Aprem
6. Christianity in Tranvancore, Mackenzie
Read any book written, by Catholic, Orthodox, Chaldean and Marthoma and find whether any of those about mentioned things which you have stated are there or not.
@Nithin Kallasery
“aa simhasanathinte kalpana anusarichu ivide vannu malankaraye satyavishvasathil urapichathu knanayakarumanu..”
I don’t know what to say about this. Child please read some history. The word kananya doesn’t even have 100 years oldness. Earlier they were called “Thekkumbhagakar”.
To read more about that please go here
http://nasrani.net/2007/02/17/historical-references-about-southist-community-tekkumbhagar-knanaya/
Read each any every comment and line and also the comments.
@Nithin Kallshery
You shouldn’t have made the below comment, from your Original mail ID. Later after some years when you grow up, you will regret about this howler …..
pandu kabrian enna portughese karanodu ividundayirunna suriyani yuvakanmar paranjathu.."njangal christavar ayathu antiochayude pithavil ninnu anu ennanuu"...nammude parambaryavum paitrikavum avakashavumanu antiocha simhasanam
Dear Fyodor
This guy Nidhin Kallissery is taught by Jacobites especially Kanyamparambil Kurien Chor Episcopa or his lessons and other people like Moolayail Chor episcopa who are well known for their forged History/misinterpretation of Bible, and their blind devotion to throne of Antioch!He(Nidhin) cannot understand anything at this time!
hey...friends u all r again repeating the foolishnes...aroke enthoke paranjalum malankarayude mannil satyavishvasam nila nirthiyathu knanaya karilode antiocha simhasanam anu athu innale mulacha 1912 il undaya 1934 le bharanaghadana vedhamayi kondunadakkunna metran kakshikaru ethra nalu alukale kallavishvasangal paranju pattikum....malankara sabhaku suriyanivatkarichathu antiocha simhasanam anenkil lokamullakalam malankarayil antiochayude makal kanum.....
valiyaparampan what u said?
Nidhin and Innocent – Train yourselves to be good athletes. Because your skill for running will be tested when you land in Parumala to built the church...hey ithu oru christavanu chernnaa nadapadi ano...aradhanakku verunnavare thalli chathakan ano daivam padipichekunathu...ethu orthdox pithavanoo ee mahat vachanatahinte asoothrakan?? ningal kaniamparampil achaneyum moolayil achaneyum okkee anoo vimarshichekunathuu?..aradhan nadathan christavanu avakasham undu...athu daiva mahatvathinu vendiyanu athine thadanju thalamurakalku shapam veruthi vekkalee
hello ebenezar,
Dont talk aganist Kanyamparambil Kurien Cor Episcopa you know he a great man with all knowladge abt christian history in the earth and also he is one of the greatest syriac scholar with all knoeledge. so his words are always correct
my brothers in christ,
i wrote what i feel...i am damn sure that we the true malankara christians can never forgot the holy throne of antioch...coz they brought syrian culture to malankara...they brought holy qurbana and holy chrism to malankara...and they give permission for the great syrian migration....y u r insulting the great scholars like kaniamparampil achan and moolayil achen...they are well knwn xian historians and syriac pandits...u people hv no right to evaluate thosee grea8 persons...hey u people said to train for run...me ready to face ur attack coz my lord said to forgive to ur brothers...hey we all r christians following same belief but treating others as enemies... this behaviour of us is causing shame to whole christianity..think as a human...think as a christian.. fight for christ...not for other irrelevent things
You guys don't attack our Kuriyanparambil Kaniyan Korepiscopa and molayil achen. They are strong Antiochian faithful who lead us in satyavishwasam. They are strongfold and we our church is because of them today. If No Antiochian father comming to Malankara no Syrian Christians in India and no Christianity and nobody would have been saved. The place Knanaya thoma came was very peaceful. Only to save you guys in Malankara he came and see the number of people he saved. Today you people fight because of the good work those religious people did for you. He gave permission to migrate otherwise you people would have not seen a syrian till date. You should understand if you had not see a syrian what would have happened. How would your Achens & Bishops wear those vestments, what would have they read for your Qurbana, what sort of church you guys have prayed. Have you ever thought of all these but when it comes to criticising you people are first. You can't forget the pain and agony our father from Antiiochya suffered in this country. All because of that only you people follow our faith. You people should stop following our faith and give back our vestments and prayer books. Then we can go our way. Until then we will fight. We are ready to run because Ammaye maranallum Antiochyaa marakoola. Kuriamparambil & Molayil Korepiscopas faith is the same we also have. You people should read those sincere innocent news item that is being published by Molayil Achen in viswasa samrakshakan. Petta thalla sahikilla, for writing all these.
I am the least person to judge Kaniamparambil Chorepiscopa. However his book had many flaws, not sure if that’s deliberate or out of ignorance. Certainly he is not a historian, however a renowned Syriac Scholar. His knowledge in the language cannot be questioned. Nevertheless, should mention his lack of scholarly aptitude when it comes to historical research.
He did claim in his book, that all patriarchs visited Malankara, on their paternal wealth. Sorry to say, the church spent close to 5000 rupees on Pat. Peter III’s expenses. He did send several telegrams to Kottayam requesting monetary assistance. When is takes only 500 rupees in those days, for a travel from Mardin to Malankara, the expense of Pat. Peter III was more than 5000. Part of this monetary assistance was the personal savings of Dionsyius II himself. Upon arriving in Malankara, Patriarch dispatched his envoys to all major churches in Kerala, and collected amounts depending upon the size of the church. Which is clearly mentioned by the Syrian , Shemon Mar Divannasios in Kandanad Ghandavary. However as per our Kurien Kaniamparambil Achen, it is all paternal wealth. ; - )
And, Thekumbagakkar (Kananya) never had any relation with the Antiochians, only in the 20th century, did some Thekumbagakkar, in order to hide their bitter past and to disassociate them with their northern counter parts, the Catholic Syrian Christians started re-writing their history. No document prior to 20th century claims any connection between the Thekumbagam and Antioch. Every available historical document proves that, Thomas of Cana was an Armenian merchant, who fled persecution in the 9th century.
Second, West Syrianisation was not something which, we happily borrowed. Till Marthoma IX, we followed the Chaldean East Syriac Liturgy with minor West Syrian revisions, which was propounded by Bishop Ivanios who accompanied Yeldo Bava.
Marthoma VII pleaded with the Syrian prelates not to change the Rite from East Syriac to West. However, we had a group that favored the Antiocheans, and that was Pulikottil Dionsyius I. It was during his time, that the Antiocheans could get their foot well placed in Malankara, roughly 200 years before. Biggest irony is that, under Pulikottil Dionsyius II, predecessor of Vattasheril thirumeni, the detachment process also started. It was bishops from the same family that supported Antiochean involvement, and later stopped their involvement.
The Antiochian fanaticism which sprouted 100 years before is still kept aloft, just because of our mismanagement. We were never successful in letting people know that, the Strongest Antiochean connection is in the last 200 years.
For those who say, we have chucked out the Syrians, read the constitution No.1 of IOC. What we inherited spiritually, liturgically and theologically is paid back in a befitting manner. We do not repay that by selling the whole church and her assets in Malankara to a church with whom we have hardly 200-250 years connection.
Dear Son Of Antiyok!
First of You people must understand what is True faith and Who is your Master!Then talk about other things like great historians!Where did these pundits of Jacobite church learn history?What ever these guys are teaching is against the teachings of Christ!
DearKnight of Antioch
All problems in Malankara started by your great Forefathers like C.J.Kurien in Malankara!Those days You people killed many innocents,and did many things which are NonChristian! Don't forget as you claim now as to be a saint!also remember what is curse of Lord!
Hiding criminals in Church,Killing other people using the criminals and collecting money on account of charity,utilising the money for Killers,Gundas,and Mafias are godly activitites of JSOC ?
Dear Nithin Kallissery
You must learn Christianity and Liturgy!What some people in JSOC wrote is not History or not Liturgy!MOSC had liturgy even before Antiocheans came in Malankara!What you see now are West Syriac Liturgy/Robes!Before that we had East Syrian Liturgy that is why Europeans called as SYRIAN Christian!Holy Qurbana/Chrism were here in Malankara from A.D.52 it is not your Antiocheans fathers who brought such in Malankara!
Can you quote any supporting evidence from Bible regarding Throne in Antioch? Can you tell that priesthood in Church is converged through St.Peter/or through his throne in Antioch?
About true worship what did Jesus Said?You think in early church they built churches just opposite of another church for worshipping God?Even The Constituition of India does not allow people to construct/build /make,temples/churches/worship places whereever they like/want!If you are a true Christian you are not going to create problems for other people!
It is JSOC and you people should think that you are a Christian,human being and you should follow Christ Lord!For Worshipping God,you don't need to build ribel churches where there are churches already exist.
Dear Nithin Kallissery
There were no syrian Migration came in Malankara as directed by any Antiocheans fathers!These are pure lies taught by your Holy and great historians and pundits of JOSC,who were authors of famous KAPPY CANON in Malankara!In early Days Malankara had no connection/ties with Antioch,or neither Antioch was not known to Malankara until A.D.1600
We are not treatening you,as JOSC are threatening MOSC!It is your heirarchy who called MOSC are enemies through Bull/Kaplana!
Since you told us that Great migration of Syrian took place by Kalpana from Antioch Simhasanam can you produce a copy of Kalpana from the great Simhasanam?Can you tell us the In chrage of Throne by then A.D. 345?Even the History of Knanaya church does not say that!
hey gud cmnts frm knight and son of antiochs...i feel proud on u people..
Dear Antioch Knight
What Christianity you are preaching/talking here? What Did Fr.Thekkara did in Murder case of T.M.Varghese?Using charity money for buying Killers, hiding them in churches? If you are a true Christian you do not even need to build a rebel church in Parumala!before start throwing mud on MOSC start cleaning your own home!First of all Parumala is not Ayodhya! There is no need for Jacobites to build a church next to existing Paumala church using same name, saint's name as you had alrady Church and Other spiritual centres in Many Places inthe name of Mar gregorios!
Your own Attitude is Un Christian!then you shall not judge others!
Dear Nithin
You are damn sure about What?You could not prove or Substantiate anything you said here in this blog!When you comment something there should be some evidence or support!The Syrian Culture/Syrian Liturgy and Language was here in Malankara since beginning of Christianity in India!Jewish people were in Kerala before St.Thomas arrived here!
The Knanaya Community never spread christianity or preached Gospel in Kerala/Malankara!They even exist as a seperate community/race in Kerala now!Even in the minutes of Nicene Synod there were no mention about Malankara/persian Churches!
How can you Prove your alleged Claims of Antiochean Throne and Migration of Syrian was in order from Antioch in Malankara?
Dear Nithin Kallissery
Those Pandits and great histiorians of yours are totally antiorthodox people as they teach against orthodoxy!First of all you should also learn what is orthodoxy and what are Oriental orthodox churches stand for!Without knowing orthodoxy you should not comment on MoSC forum!
This not the place for you to comment what you feel based on non orthodox teachings and principles!
Whatever your Church heirarchy at present teach are not Biblical!They teach something for self existence and glorification!We MoSC are not taking you as enemy! It is H.B.Thomas I, Who told publically that MoSC are enemies of JSOC and barred/prohibited you people from Participating MOSC Liturgy and sacrements!
it is our longtime wish to do prayers in parumala....and we all are eagerly waiting for it....u people wont alw our aboons to do the prayers there...then what the other option..we need a church there..we bought land for it and with our money we are going to build a church...what problm u hv my friends....the metrans gv an assurance that the perunal wont cm at nov.. so no chance for problems there..... again pls friends we are christians we are sharing same belief...we r same in all manners...we r following the real faith..we should love each other...never cause worry for others...
Dear Nithin,
One thing I have to admit. I had a girl friend in my college. I liked her but when I proposed to her. She said she is a Knanayite and told me that she can't marry because I am not in the community. It sadenned me. You shout for the same Patriarch like I. You ready to come to Parumala like me. Then why I can't marry from your community. So sad. I am now even trying from Metran Kashi, but I heard from one of the broker that one girl remarked, 'pulayenay kettiyallum patrikiz karenney kettilla ennu'. All I could say in reply was 'Ammaye maranallum Antiochyaye marakoola'. You should talk to your Bishops and let your girls to marry atleast we boys because we have one faith, one patriarch and one apostle which you know.
Dear Fyodor
The travelling expenses of Peter III,Partriarch was from Mardin to London,London to Bombay ,So we had to remit 500 in advance for his journey and after his arrival 3000was paid to him.When Yeldho Bava and his entourage came in Malankara we had also paid thePersian/Armenian Traders (who arranged their trip)for their travelling to malankara upon their arrival in Malankara!
This is Why I am telling that Those Pundits/Historians are making their own history for self existence and glorification!Kaniamparampil Chor Episcopa wrote that in Old testament Moses had a throne similarly St.Peter in new testament there is a throne!He may have knowledge in W. Syriac language.this does not mean he is great scholar or historian!
hey innocent kna vere jacobite vere athil thottullaa kali venda...knanay paramparyam njangal lokam avasanikum vere kondu nadakkum...knanayakaran akanel jenmam kondu daivam tharunnaa oru anugrahama...athu njangal kalanju kulikillaa......malankara antiocha bendhathinte jeevikunnaa sakshikal ayi knanaya jacobites lokam muzhuvan niranju nilkum....
Dear Nithin Kallisseri
What is the Difference in KNANAYA Jacobite/Syrian Jacobite?What is the difference between Jacobites in Malankara and MOSC! Do they have seperate sacrements or seperate Liturgy/worship/faith or Seperate Lords!?I want you to learn the geneaolgy of Jesus Christ!then answer properly to the comments made by Innocent!
Dear Nitin,
So far I thought we Jacobites are only fanatcis. But I am shocked to see the comment you made. How can this happen? How can we get along? So whatever spirit you show is fake. If we can't have relation with your people why are you people supporting our Patriarch. Afterall he is not a Knanayaite. He belongs to Antiochya. Suppose I marry a knaniyte girl and our Patriarch is ready to conduct, do you still oppose it? Shocking, I don't think we can get along. I feel the metran kakshi is better than you guys. Really I am worried at the attitude of one knaniyte. Do all the knaniyite are like this. Infact my friend told me during the college when he saw me having friendship with that knaniyte girl, 'Aval charram kottiya' vittere. But I thought she respects our Patriarch and I too. So I thought we can become one.
hey samji and innocent, why u r people targeting the knananites here...its not a forum to discuss abt knanaya heritge..pls leave that topic..its our custom we wil folow it...nobody can change us..we are autonomous...we are not the part of issues between ioc and soc but i supported jsc here and coz of it all our community got blamed...hey 17 centuries we preserved knanaya identity and we wil follow it... i wont further gv cmnt related to any knanaya comments here...
Dr. Michael Satlow, famous Jewish historian and professor at Brown University, describes in great detail the endogamy among ancient Jews in chapter 6 of his book "Jewish Marriages in Antiquity".
Dr. Satlow states that endogamy goes back to Biblical period. Marriages of Abram with Sarai, Isaac with Rebekkha, Jacob with Rachel and then Leah are good examples of the endogamy. Later Biblical writers like Deuteronomist endorsed endogamy while condemning exogamy. The endogamous marriages continued in Judea all the way until 586 BCE when Assyrians invaded Judea, destroyed the temple and exiled a large number of Jews to Babylon . This is "Babylonian Exile" period of Jewish history.
While living in Babylon the Jews from Judea took a strict oath of endogamy because they believed that, to reach God's kingdom after judgment day "the chosen people of God should maintain purity not only ritually and morally, but also biologically" (Satlow-pg 141). They remained endogamous and anyone who mixed with Assyrians was removed from the community.
Knanaya law is not a written one. Instead, it has evolved through the centuries-old tradition of ‘endogamy’ combined with the ex-communication of those knanites who opt exogamy. Excommunication of those knanites who goes exogamous also has been a part of the tradition all through these centuries! Excommunication cannot be seen separated from the tradition of endogamy! Tradition constitutes the knanaya law.
So, we cannot change this basic tradition / law that “ to be a part/ member of the Community, the knanite should not be married to a non-knanite.”
From the tradition that has been followed all through these centuries, it can be seen that to be a 'knanite' and to be a 'member of the community' are different!
To be a 'knanite', one only need to be born of knanite parents.
But to be a part / member of the community the above law has to be satisfied.
Therefore, though all members of the community are knanites, all knanites, [ie. the knanites who opted exogamy], are not the members of the knanaya community
Endogamy is the only legal and socially acceptable way for the growth and existence of any endogamous community. That is the reason why knanaya has opted ‘endogamy’ as its basic and inevitable ingredient in the case of marriage of a the knanite! Any knanite who adopts ‘exogamy’ is acting by legal means against the growth and existence of the kna community. So he openly proves, by his action, that he has no love or loyalty to the kna community! So he should leave and spare the community. Thereafter, if he insists and attempts to remain in the kna community, with his family or not, he will be an enemy of knanaya! So it is quite logical to excommunicate him.
Knanaya is not a religion. It is community.
As per its basic rules by tradition,
1. ‘to be a knanite, one has to be born to knanite parents’.
2. ‘to be a part/member of the community, a knanite should not be married to a non-knanite.’
So, a non-knanite could never become a knanite or a knanite, a non-knanite.
Endogamy' is the very basis of existence and growth of knanaya. So from the very moment a knanite marries a non-knanite, the community ceases to recognize her as a part/member of the community, though her family might compromise! The community cannot have any compromise on this, because it is question of its existence!
Thus, though all the members of the community are knanites, all knanites [ie. those who goes exogamous in marriage] are not members of the knanaya community.
Innocent
our forefathers were jewish
thats why we r following this tradition
we converted as christian from jewish religion...pls understand those facts
Nidhin,
What about one of your members does not have children and gets one thru Cloning? Is the child acceptable.
Dear Nithin Kallissery
What ever you stated here has no biblical support and evidence!
You Must follow bible as A Christian!When you follow your unwritten laws or tradition you are not Christian!One of my Hindu Friend(Pattar/brahmin) married a Knanaya girl! although the girls family first did not recognise her after she had a baby the family are very close to her! another girl kananaya girl married a Catholic boy!The girls family did not distant themselves.They had accepted both the girl and boy!> these two incidents took place just near by your place/ area!
I heard another Knanaya Boy is going to marry a Hindiu Girl very soon!any how you are not Christians as you do not follow teachings of Bible!
Dear Samji,
Just check the cases you have quoted have got children. Whom knows if they marry out of the community they may not produce children. I am scared.
@Nidhin
Bible says " I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." Rev 2:9. And I can show many more ref from Bible regarding this. So knanaya community is agianst the bible.Christian theology doesnt support the caste system. I challenge you to show any word from bible to show ur stand..
Dear NithinKallissery
You(Knanaya community)are not Jewish!You are Descendants of Canaan,Whose father is Ham,Noah's Son! so do not confuse us here with your Jewish culture idea!The Jewish people are discendants of Isarel(jacob)!
Dear All
The Jacobite Church in Malankara cannot digest what Babu Kuzimattom wrote about Parumala Church!for them everything thing "throne in Antioch"!Especially H.B.Thomas I and Mar Coorilose,they have no respect for Parumala!They should know what Parumala Thirumeni did in his life time and for what did he stand for!
You are questioning Nithin regarding whether their Knananaya custom is according to Bible. Poor boy. What about those religious leaders whom he uphold. Do they have a clue about the teachings of Christ and Bible. Nithin you can say, that you didn't the Bible from Knai Thoma so it is not necessary to follow that. Good excuse isn't it.
Dear Believers,
Another Church in Parumala is totally unnecessary for the faithful in Kerala and will only add to the problems between the Jacobite and Orthodox factions. There is absolutely no need for a Jacobite Church in Parumala as all people are allowed to worship at the current Church. Every Jacobite who stands for the truth knows this. Any leader promoting the need for a Jacobite Church in Parumala is acting like a wolf in sheep's clothing and any Jacobite who promotes this idea does not want any kind of peace or unity between both factions. The leaders are using the people to fight for them and their power, not for the Lord. If anyone is thinking of leaving the original Parumala Church for the new Jacobite Church in Parumala, they shouldn't waste their time in Kerala and move to Antioch as soon as possible. Also, if these Jacobite Achayans love Antioch so much, I am sure they would really love to marry off their daughters to real Syrian Orthodox men from Antioch.
Dear Nithin
Your L/L Mar Clemis once took the Staff(amshavadi used by parumala saint)of Saint Gregorios from Parumala Church while conducting a wedding in Parumala church! He never returned the Staff to Parumala Church or to Parumala archives! I think Jacobites are keeping it That is the reason why you are siding with Jacobites to have seperate ParumalaPally over there by now!Nithin we are not blind to know your attitude and gesture!
Nithin Kallissery/and Knight/Son of Antioch etc
Now we know what is the intention behind new church in Parumala by Jacobites!You people cannot expect miracles from stolen staff of late Saint Gregorios in Parumala by constructing another new church next to present ParumalaChurch!
Parula thirumeni was of united church .my home parish(St mary's Knanaya church Eraveperoor) foundation stone was laid by parumala thirumeni even st mary's kanaya church kattode stone was also laid by thirumeni. HE Clemis thirumeni never took the staff because u know orthdox faction never allows a bishop of syrian orthdox faction to enter there church that too parumala church. Nor we allow them to enter our church Now regarding the amshavadi , parumala thirumeni has forgeten it in aprem seminary once. I had the article of clemis thirumeni which was printed in malaya manorama about 10-12 years back when his grace described how he got amshavadi and he has reduced the height moreover he he uses this amshavadi in qurbana when his grace has some problems & he get relief . I think this itself is a big proof because if this would not have been truth manorama would have never dared to publish it ..
Dear Manu
What I told you is the correct/right information as before1973, the church was united under MOSC catholicose and there was no division by then. By then(1969) there was a wedding ceremoney conducted by L/L Mar Clemis as he was coming from Kottayam He(mar Clemis) forgot his Staff(amshavadi)there(in Kottayam). In Parumala,Mar clemis used the staff of Parumala Thirumeni, That was how the Staff of St.Gregorios went to Aprem seminary!let me tell you that Mar Gregorios orthodox Student Movement in 1971/2year Conference was inagurated by L/L Mar Clemis(I was personlly there) and I also recieved Holy Qurbana from Mar Clemis by then!the present young generation do not know how was the MOSC between 1958 to 1972!
jacobite are mosc centric they always know for unprofessional way of working style.Suddenly some people become bishop i think it happens only jacobites.Person belives in principles ,history cannot follow the jacobite faith.bishop who came to our side theses father all are highly educated they cannot denie this.LETS PRAY OUR BROTHERS TO GET GOOD BISHOP WHO GUIDE BETTER MANNER
ANTYOKYA VISHVASIYALLATHA NINAKU ORU ANTYOKYAN PATRIYARKES METHRAN STHANAM THARAMENNU PARANJAL NEE ATHU MADIKUMO?
Dear All
This retired IAS man and his arguments are baseless as we MOSC know the attitude and gesture of Jacobites in Malankara!he is trying to confuse people in Malankara! There is somebody using Parumalapally in orkut always creating unrest,disharmony,and unrealistic,untrue news in that web!Mr.Babu Paul if you are a true Christian,you are supposed to unite people and solve disputes rather than making the situation worse!
Babu Paul has been stepping on both boats for a long period. Now his real colour came out. He is using every stage he gets to tarnish Orthodox Church. Babu Paul's articles are outdated, they are mere play of words, no true content inside.
Malankara adopting the faith of syrian christian it does mean syrian Pathrikkeesu is our head.Runing after postion is not big achivement.THERE MANY ANTI INDIAN IN THIS COUNTRY FOR MONEY & POSTION THEY ARE READY EVEN BETRAY THERE OWN RACES & COUNTRY.ACCORDING JACOBITE THEORY INDIAN HEAD SHOULD BRITIAN QUEEN BEAUSES THEY RULED US .STILL USING THEIR SYSTEM.
Parumala palliyil Qurbana chollan avasaram venamennu Naalumnnaakkale Koori-looose paranjallo, Babu Paul chettan athu arinjille
Dear Eldhose
There is no faith in Antioch! Faith in Jesus only who is our Lord!Christianity did not originate in Antioch!So stop your nonsenses!Again Christ's priesthood is not enthroned in Antioch!Salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ!So Whatever your jacobite heretic teachings are antichrist or non christian!
Mr.Babu Paul you cannot compare yourselves with ordinary orthodox people and Writer Babu Kuzhimattom!Babu Paul was trying to confuse the ordinary faithful by arguing that Parumalapally name and web site name used by Jacobites in Malankara are not confusing! moreover Babu Paul should also know in Puthupally and many places How Jacobites used behave in the past as well as now with the MOSC church faithful and public! Near Kollam There is A big MOSC Parish with600 family members.Just opposite there is a Jacobite Church with 20 members only.This Jacobite people always try to inconvenience and try to disrupt services in MOSC parish during sunday worship and feasts days in many ways!with that kind of attitude and gesture of Jacobite people in Parumala there will not be Peace at all!
This retired IAS guy even tried to
make/create Parumala as Ayodhya! he did not even know the real AYODHYA issue!This attitude of Babu Paul are totally UnChristian! he is trying to catch fish in mudwater!Again true worship is not building rebel churches for creating distubances in existing peaceful atmosphere!
The Former IAS retired Civil servant has no commen sense!If the issue was supposed to be Kitchen Matter of Malankara Nazranis,he is the one who started earlier writing articles in Media about Parumala church and St.Gregorios!Why did he start this matter to be public with his own writings in the first place?The idea of jacobites are not creating /making worship place in Parumala(as they have no faithful members there now) but creating problems like they always used to do in other areas diturbance/unrest/violation of law and order in the name St.Gregorios,so that the existing ParumalaPally(MoSc) can be closed! This evil attitude/mentality of Jacobites are well known to MOSC!He(babu Paul) is another devil posing himself as a sacred guy!
പോടാ നിന്റെ ഒന്നും ഒരു സമ്മതവും പരുമലയില് പള്ളി പണിയാന് ഞങ്ങള്ക്ക് വേണ്ട .നീ യൊക്കെ ആരാ എത്ര ആള് കളിയ്ക്കാന് .നീയൊക്കെ എല്ലാ യാക്കോബായ പള്ളികളുടെയും വാതുക്കല് പാര പള്ളിപനിതപ്പോള് ആരും നിന്നോടോന്നും ചോതിചില്ലല്ലോ .അത് കൊണ്ട് മക്കള് ഗുണ്ടായിസം കാട്ടാതെ അടങ്ങിയിരിക്കു .പള്ളി ഞങ്ങള് പണിയും കട്ടായം മോനെ .നീയല്ല നിന്റെയൊക്കെ ചത്തുപോയ വട്ടശ്ശേരി വന്നാലും ഞങ്ങള് പള്ളി പണിയും പരുമലയില് .നിന്റെയൊക്കെ കള്ളാ കാതോലിക്ക മാരുടെ കുറ്റം ആദ്യം അന്വേഷിക്കു .എന്നിട്ട് മതിയെട യാക്കോബായ സഭയുടെ കുറ്റാന്വേഷണം .ഭാര്യയും പിള്ളാരും ഉള്ള എത്ര മെത്രന്മാര് നിങ്ങള്ക്കുന്ടെട തെണ്ടികളെ .എന്നിട്ടാനോട വര്ത്തമാനം പറയുന്നത് .പോടാ
Sri Babu Paul supported O Rajagopal and BJP in a pariment election, hoping that time BJP would come to power in Delhi. In an interview with Asinet (I think the channel's name is correct) Sri Babu Paul said he helped RSS while he was the home secretary. Unfortuanely for Mr Paul, BJP lost miserably adn manmohan became the PM. All his hopes of getting a post was gone. Since then Sri paul has been writing controversial things and keeping himself in the limelight.
i think we should discount him understanding well that he uses all oportunities to advace himself evern at the cost of anybody.
I'm sorry that we have such people in our midst who lacks principles
The above letter by Malankarajsc proves how substandard these people are! How thee kind of people live as a church? It will take atleast another 4 generatons for these people to come to the level of orthodox church.
When the leaders themselves believe in abusing writers or people who think independently, we can imagine the standard of the laity.
Ever since the visit of HH patriarch in 2008 October, Jacobite have NOT won a single issue. They are losing each issue and jacobite faithful hemselves have turned against HB Thomas I. HH Zacha bava has clipped already the wings of Hb Thomas Thirumeni and Thomas bava is too weak to fight against it.
UPPU THINNAVAN VELLAM KUDIKKUM.
The only hope for HB THOMAS is to bring eternal peace in Malankara by leading a talk for unity of the church... Or else history would record this person as a person who killed unity and peace
Parumal palliperunnal in 2010 was teh best ever, thanks to the controversy by the Jacobite leaders (protestants of malankara sabha) the aAthibrasanam's local bishop is trying all his poltical conectiosn to advance his agenda.
WHY SOME PEOPLE CALL JACOBITES A SABHA?
as per thir own constitution they ae only an ACHDIOCESE OF THE ANTIOCH CHURCH. Please use the word 'ATHIBHADRAASANAM' to refer to teh jacobites' 'church'
Dear All
This Guy Malankara JSC belong to primitive community which does not know God or humanity of Jesus Christ!I dont'know how people can behave like this claiming to be MJSC!Let Us Pray to God Almighty to forgive him for his ignorance and barbaric behaviour!
Yako.upaya seminaryil theriviliyil graduation, postgraduation, masters in Gundaism, murder with suicide specialisation okke undennu kelkunnu.
PGEDA (post Graduate in Emtional Drama & Acting) udan thudangum . Athinte thalavan lokathile number on emotional drama artist aanu.
Financail Management (church corruption) nte centre kothamanagalam-thu udan arambikkum.
Media stunt, legal consultancy enniva arambikkan nirddesham undu. Daivam sahayichal ee varsham thudangam...
WHAT FR. DARLEY LACKS IS INTEGRITY. His speeches and switching loyalties according to convenience have raised doubts about his strength of character in both jacobite and Orthodox camps.
No doubt Fr Darley is an OPPORTUNIST. He swtiched his sides according to siuations and now is all out to prove that his present loyalty. But he is not trusted in both the camps
More than a year ago, Mathrubhumi weekly carrid a letter by Fr Darly severely criticising Jacobite church for honouring worst corrupt and dishonest peope with chruch titles like chavalier, commander etc.
One of his strategies is to write letters to the editor to some Malayalam magazines which ONLY EXPOSE HIMSELF. Now he has found an issue to prove his worth. Don't know how much this mood will last!
Even though the Supremr court judgemnt is in Orthodox Group's favour Jacobites still control Manarkattu Church. Is it OK to build another St.Mary's Church next to Manarkat church for those who cannot worship peacefully at Manarcad Church?
Very Good malankarajsc. I hope you are perfectly eligible for the post of next Shresta Bava soon for the Puthenkurusu society.
Dear All
Fr.Darley do not know the Church in Malankara and St.Gregorios of Parumala!He says that St.Grgorios does not know Malankara orthodox Church!That means Fr,Darley does not believe in Departed Souls are alive or departed Soul of L/L St.Gregorios!for more than centuary MOSC is conducting all worship service and Feasts at Parumala!
During his end times St.Gregorios entrusted the keys of Prumala Seminary and told/reminded all his duties at seminary.Mar Gregorios also gave his symbols of position etc to vattseeril Remban Fr. Geevarghese!At the time of his departure(end of life/time of death)L/LH.H. Geevarghese Baselioc Catholicose(Rev.Fr.Punnoose Remban)was with Parumala mar Gregorios! How come that Fr.Darley says that Mar Gregorios did not know MOSC?
is he sane priest?
Mr Babu Paul had said that disciples of Parumala Thirumeni as in both camps. But WHOM DID Parumala Thirumeni entrusted everything before his death? TAT MAKES THE POINT. It is NONE OTHER than VATTSERIL THIRUMENI whom the Saint knew well.!
cicsjoke831all u people crazy,stupit.fighting
churhes,christ it so sad,every body need big chair.
Idon,t know why did you raised discussion about knanaya tradition and customs in here .This is not a subject here so editor or RESPONSIBLE pERSONS , you must stop this discussion here other wise you haveSECERT INTENSION to encouraging this matter .I don't want mention anybody's name here, but the customs and traditions are the identity of a society, community , state and nation etc , nobody cannot question this . India is very big country, so many states and many languages ,customs and tradition existing in India ,that is the identity of india[iniversity in diversity}. Knanaya people has their own tradition and customs as st.thomas christions in kearala. The malankara Orthodox church known as orthodox church because thats nature is orthodox , is this came from Bible?malankra orthodox churches has many customs and tradition , do you know, in st.george chuch puthuppally 'doing kozhivettu'while celebrating feast,is this biblical .the orthodox churches consider bible as a primary document of the church and also our forfathers writings and saying,are very important same like Bible .do you think,we want neglect our knanaya forfathers writings and words ?.somebody said knanaya historians cleverly wrote knanaya history-that is utter nonsense, you can read kerala history and also malankara orthodox historians orthodox books as well.Just remember if you are continuing syriac worship and orthodox tradition that is the result of syrian knanaya knanaya migration to kerla other wise you may be part of RC.ENDOGOMY SYSTOM is the main characerisic of knanaya, any knanaya can marry from out of the community, but he/ she will be excommunicated from the community, that is the law , custom and tradition. Why MALANKARA ORTHODOX CHURCH keep Cheramar churches as a seperate in this modern world ? why not absurbe them as a malankara orthodox makkal? why not your parents encourage your children from backword communities?,why you are conducting false prayer and upavasam at churches after kashi vazhakku,why you are encroching your brothers property and giving petition against your brothers?why you are loosing your christian witness?many priests and bishops shouting at streets and acting like gundas,. many people , politicians judges and people from other religions are contempting about your chursch, is this all are biblical?.think about it and find answer.
nigalude kannile valiya koleduthittu pore makkale njangalude karadu edukkan?.
.I don't want mention anybody's name here, but the customs and traditions are the identity of a society, community , state and nation etc , nobody cannot question this . India is very big country, so many states and many languages ,customs and tradition existing in India ,that is the identity of india[iniversity in diversity}. Knanaya people has their own tradition and customs as st.thomas christions in kearala. The malankara Orthodox church known as orthodox church because thats nature is orthodox , is this came from Bible?malankra orthodox churches has many customs and tradition , do you know, in st.george chuch puthuppally 'doing kozhivettu'while celebrating feast,is this biblical .the orthodox churches consider bible as a primary document of the church and also our forfathers writings and saying,are very important same like Bible .do you think,we want neglect our knanaya forfathers writings and words ?.somebody said knanaya historians cleverly wrote knanaya history-that is utter nonsense, you can read kerala history and also malankara orthodox historians orthodox books as well.Just remember if you are continuing syriac worship and orthodox tradition that is the result of syrian knanaya knanaya migration to kerla other wise you may be part of RC.ENDOGOMY SYSTOM is the main characerisic of knanaya, any knanaya can marry from out of the community, but he/ she will be excommunicated from the community, that is the law , custom and tradition. Why MALANKARA ORTHODOX CHURCH keep Cheramar churches as a seperate in this modern world ? why not absurbe them as a malankara orthodox makkal? why not your parents encourage your children from backword communities?,why you are conducting false prayer and upavasam at churches after kashi vazhakku,why you are encroching your brothers property and giving petition against your brothers?why you are loosing your christian witness?many priests and bishops shouting at streets and acting like gundas,. many people , politicians judges and people from other religions are contempting about your chursch, is this all are biblical?.think about it and find answer.
nigalude kannile valiya koleduthittu pore makkale njangalude karadu edukkan?.
Dear Babu Chingavanam
MOSC people did not drag anymatter of Knanaya issue here for dicussion!It is your own community people who brought the issue here!So Just cool yourselves! Your Community should be impartial in Disputes/fueds of Malankara Church! However your own people involved in it dragged the isuue here for comments!So better keep quiet rather than making untimely, unnecessary ,and unwanted comments here!
Dear Babu Chingavanam
It is not MOSC people who dragged Knanaya matters or issue in This Blogs for dicussion/comments!Your people joined with JSOC and Critisized and abused in this Forum! It is just like the adage/proverb in Malayalam the way you act now:-" The dog ate the rice(food) for the Carpenter woman and it also had Bitten the Lady! Yet again the dog barks and keeps mumering"!
so better keep away from the blog comments!Syrian Liturgy/worship followed by MOSC is not due to Knanaya Community exodus or migration to Kerala and presence of your community In Malankara!
DearBabu Chingavan
Could you give an account of Churches/properties encroached by MOSC in Malankara as alleged by yourselves!Did we(MOSC) encroach any of your churchproperty? Those who made a seperate church under societies act in 2002 to escape S/C verdict cannot claim any property/church which in under MOSC as per 1934 constituition/administration!
The Syrian Migration under Knai Thomas in A.D.345 took place When Mar Semeon Bershebe was Catholicose in Persian Church of St.Thomas,which was then not under authority/see of Antioch! Antioch only consecrated A mafriana in Persian Church of Thigris in A.D.628 called Mar Morusso!Eddesa was not under antioch by A.D.345!
ബാബു കുഴിമറ്റം സാറിന്റെ മറുപടി വായിച്ചു സാധാരണ ക്കാര്ക്ക് ഈ മറുപടി മനസിലാക്കാന് സാധിച്ചു !! വളരെ സന്തോഷം !!
ബാബു കുഴിമറ്റം വിവേകവുംവിവേചനശക്തിയുംഉള്ള ഒരുമനുഷനാണ്! ബാബുപോളിന്ഇത് രണ്ടും ഇല്ല!ഐ.എ.സ് ഉള്ള
വ്യക്തിക്ക് രാഷ്ട്രീയ നിലപാട് പറയാനേ അറിയത്തിള്ളൂ!
Opportunistic laity leaders and priests have tried to twist the church to suit their greedy interests. I am sorry that such people still suvive by playing GAMES. They know they get attention ONLY by writing or speaking ugly things. Let heaven forgive them!
Mr. Mohan Mathew,
You need Trazadone 500 MG (BID) for the currently infected disease. We all know who is Babu Paul since we were little children. I don’t think he needs an introduction in the social scenario of Kerala. (Off course the “Helping Big Brothers” of IOC also know him in a positive or negative way) Who is benefitted from this controversy? I didn’t know this Kuzhimattam before. But now I know him. This is exactly like the Hollywood Stars getting married and divorcing 5 or 6 times in their life in order to get the media coverage and media attention. I don’t think Babu Paul does need that. I know Mr. Mathew may have a thousand counter-arguments to win this “ARGUMENT GAMES”. There is an established faith in Kerala that in order to get the popular support, a Christian has to deny his Church, faith and pretend himself as a revolutionary. I believe Mr. Kuzhimattam has accomplished this goal. And once again, go back and read both articles, Mr. Mathew and use your cognitive skills and recognize who is polite and gentle. If you are not a color blinded Orthodox man, I believe you can see it. God bless you my brother.
Dear Pallikapyar
What is an established Faith in Kerala? Who established the faith and when?
What is the basic reasons for Jacobite's faction to build a new church in Parumala? you think and diagonise about it first!
also try to learn about Yakkob Burdhana and his real life rather than carrying his badge for name sake!
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