Is it justice or lawful for a mass movement to change the ruling of the judiciary? If so, what is the point of the judiciary?
Write to President of India
Prime Minister: manmohan@sansad.nic.in
E Mail id of Kerala Ministers: Please send your complaints
Write to President of India
Prime Minister: manmohan@sansad.nic.in
E Mail id of Kerala Ministers: Please send your complaints
80 comments:
Both judiciary and democarcy is part of a republic , One cannot say always judiciary is correct or its always majority is right. IN CASE OF JESUS CHRIST , JUDICIARY WAS WRONG & MAJORITY ALSO WAS WORNG AS THEY SUPPORTED CRUCIFICATION OF CHRIST
In the present scenario at Kolenchery , court has given a ruling , but there is an appeal accpeted by the high court , though there is no stay for the order ( This is what I understand)
So case is still on and we cannot say final verdict has come , We ( Both Orthodox and Jacobite's) are part of the single church , but in war or in legal tussle with each other for year's
I have seen people calling for unity , and in true christianity , Do we think Unity will happen when we ( each faction ) try to enforce one"s authority on other
It cannot happen ... We all need to take out hatred out of our heart and we need to make an atmosphere for talks and peaceful settlement as one church or as sister churche's
Both the faction's needs to be blamed , No one is accomodating
Let for the time being ( Till the final verdict come) Orthodox church have administrative control of the church and Jacobite be allowed to have prayer in their turn
One need to undersatnd that we have same faith , same tradition and we were together before 1912
Also one needs to understand that in a church of nearly 2000 families , if 1600 is kept out of the church activity because of court order , Peace wont prevail , Whatever settlemnet we make today , will be short lived
We need to learn to accomodate , not to hate
May God bless you all
Is a mass movement can be allowed to dishonor court order? Unless the country is run by mobocracy and not by democracy, no one can be allowed to violate court order.
Our CM used to say “Court and Law should go on its way”. Why he is not saying or implementing that here. When court order came to arrest Politicians and others Leaders in Kerala, so many times mass movement protested against the order and not allowed the arrest in the beginning. But since the government has to obey the court order, in all those cases police forces were used to arrest those leaders in spite of all mass movements. At that time no one was worried about religious harmony, communal issues, political agitations etc.
Here the court order is very clear and specific, and government has to implement court order. Otherwise they are working against judiciary. We are not requesting any favor or mercy from CM or his ministry, only justice. Last but least one more question to Kerala Government. Tomorrow what will happen, if orthodox Catholicos to Manarcad or Kothamangalam church demanding right to worship? Does the government will maintain the same action against it?
Mr AKJ,
Please put your complete name. You are saying that If you kill some one and majority is along with you, you can over come. We are living in India there is some rule and regulation. An appeal can go up to Supreme court till that case is not taken by the appex court please fllow the court order. I request all to block all church were the time is given to Putencurz society and let them see who is having majority. Jai Jai Catholicose Jai Jai Paulose II
regards,
Diljo Davis
Judiciary never told to maintain statuco. So it means the order should be implemented immediately.
The Court order shows God's decision on this issue.Our Holy father suffer for the entire church,including Orthodox and Jacobite Faction.They will realize this very soon.He clearly shows the responsibility of the real leader. Mr.Ommen Chandy and the Government has got an oppurtunity to solve the issue forever by implementing the court order( which will be the begining of the peace process in Malankara).Our Syrian Christian community should survive in Malankara till the end of history which is actually a need of our time for the Good and transformation of the humanity.
Mr.Ommen Chandy,do it for the good of entire orthodox(both Malankara and Jacobite) community . The ball is in your court. Do it. Throw away your narrow political game,if any,do your resposibility. Now your Government doing total injustice to the entire nation and its constitution.
ithinta onnu avasyam illayirunnallo ..chumma christava saksyam kalanju kulikkkan valare kurachu perudae mathram pidivashikkum ahagarathinnum vendiyallayirunno ithu.daivathe kurichu orikalenkilum orkunnavarayirunno nammudae idayan mar enkil avarku ethreyo pande ee sambathu moham avasanippikamayirunnu
AZAL GURU CANNOT BE HANGED IN INDIA MUMBAI ATTACKERS ALSO WILL NOT BE HANGED BECAUSES MORE THAN JUSTICES POTICAL PARTY HAS TO PLEASES MINIORITY FOR VOTE.JUSTICES SYSTEM FAILED AFTER 100 YEARS OF CASES WHAT WE ACHIVED ONLY WE HAVE WASTED MONEY WE MUST HAVE POTICAL MUSCEL TO MAKE JUSTICES FROM COURT ORDER TO IMPLEMATION IN INDIA . JACOBITE FOLLOWERS & LEADERS HAPPY TO DIE FOR A RELIGIOUS FOREIGN LEADER IT IS NOT GOOD SIGN FOR A FUTURE INDIA SOME YOUNG JACOBITE IN THIS FORM OPENLY HAS SAID THEY DONT BELIVE JUSTICES SYSTEM OF THE COUNTRY.SOME MINIORTY GROUP OPENLY CELEBRATE VICTORY FOR NEAR BY COUNTRY FOR WINING A CRICKET MATCHES WE MAY SAY IT IS DECOMARCY
JACOBITE HEAD WHO LEAD THE SHOW HE MAY FORGET PAST WHAT HAPPEN KOLENCHEY HOSPITAL NOW POOR JACOBITE BELIVE HIM AS CRUSIDER.KASHMIR SEPARTIST WHO HAS LOVE FOR PAKISTHAN AND THEIR FOLLOWERS ARE IN MAJORITY IN KASHMIR CAN WE IMPLEMENT JUSTICES OF LIKE AKG COMMENT THEN WHAT HAPPEN TO INDIA.
What nosense?
What is final verdict. this is a final verdict. no court accepted the appeal against the judgement. no longer any stay or statuesquo. Final implementation wa on 2002 under the controle of the Justice v S Maleemath.
Jacobite faction united with our church by the union of Dr.thomas Mar Athanasios, dr.yuhanon MAr Milithios, Dr.Zacharia mar Nicholavos, Dr.Abraham MAr Severios. Balance made a new church in 2002.thomas I stated a new tradition to make the Bishops( by collecting 35 lakhs from every bishops). Anyone can raid his residence for mass liquid cash. He is a born criminal.
He had attempted for suicide two times in the time of when he was the Chaplain of medical Mission hospital.
Two days back he done the Holy mass in the taxi stand. where you lives? He is a criminal case charged against him in this case. Is our HH Bava do like this?
CBI will arrest him soon. We can wait pray for that great day. Heaven will please on that
Dear Mr Diljo
Here , was not saying about merit of case , was trying to say , in a relegious matter like this , we cannot only depend on court verdict.
And we need to look at not hurting sentiments of people at various church's
Its better to share love through accomodating each other and then exploring whether all can work and worship together
There are people in both the faction who says its matter of faith , And there are people who are particular on having service by their own priests
We need to consider all this and look at christianity, We are making our community a laughing stock infront of other's
And its better to look at going forward together by making adjustments , than trying to force once belief on other and create tension in various places
There may be people of diffrent opinion's . we need to respect all
Than saying we are right and other's are wrong
Let love of prevail between brother's as God himself is love
regards
Ajit
Mass movements against official rulings and court rulings is not a new thing. All civil disobedience movements has similar nature. Whether it is Mahatma Gandhi fighting agaist the British, or Martin Luther King Jr fighting racial injustice in USA or Nelson Mandela fighting Apartheid in S.Africa, in each of these cases they were breaking the law and going agaist prevailing court rulings.
So in short, if a particular court ruling is inherently 'unjust', and gives privilages to the wealthy and powerful by trambling down on the poor and powerless, then it is very just for a mass movement to change that unjust ruling.
When courts in the US rules that the murder of an unborn child (abortion) is legal, several Christians felt that court ruling to be unjust. So to this day, there is a mass movement in the US against that court ruling which is seen as unjust.
Now I am not commenting on whether in Kolenchery the ruling is just or unjust. I don't want to get into that. All I can say is that if a party strongly feels the ruling is unjust and is trambling down on the rights of a large section of people, then it is perfectly just for them to have a mass movement to change it.
Dear Ajit,There is no matter of faith regarding this issue. The matter of faith is created by the syrian orthodox church for the small group of jacobites in kerala. It clearly shows their double stand on faith. I have noted down in many places and documents ,when syrian orthodox talk to coptic or other oriental orthodox churches regarding the faith about primacy of peter's throne, they never on favour of it rather they tell, it is false teaching of Roman Catholic Church. But when they talk to Malankara,they teach this false beleif which is actually they know is entirely wrong and against authentic christian tradition .Poor Jacobites in kerala- due to their lack of owledge in the subject and their innocence, blindly follow it.
We can pray for them,for our dear brothers, to realize the matter soon.
If orthodox Church is splitted, it will be the starting point of the demolition of the syrian christian community in kerala since many of our people dont know the real matter.Due to lots of reasons our community is going to vanish in the world in near futue. If you dont know ask any knowledgable sociologist. The splitting will boost the process. So church has to make an effort for our survival. Since we(orthodox-Jacobite) represent the real tradition, the Holy spirit is there in our community,so the truth is there with us.Even though the darkness tries to nullify it,nobody can demolish it.So we can hope for best ,through the Holy spirit we will overcome the sociological studies and results and will survive here in India till the end of history.
Dear Ajit, We,our community and Church may be laughing stock in front of others but u should realize one thing. Christ and his disciples were laughing stock in Jews community and the christians lived in first centuries were also like that. They stands for truth,fight for justice and righteouness.still they were like fools in front of others .You may have also heard on the Holy fools among monks in Russian Orthodox Church.The term fools for Christ derives from the writings of Saint Paul.So it is really a nature of christianity,especially eastern christianity, to do well and to be seen as fools in front of others.
Under the present circumstances, since the Honorable Chief Minister of Kerala too falls in the category of "Ammaye Marannalum, Patrikeese Bawaye Marakkilla" , we may not be able to gain much from the court verdict.
Neither he nor the Prime Minister of India is interested in justice or rule of law as their concern is the Congress Governemnt in Kerala which may fall if two of the Patriarch MLA's withdraw support.
As we all know Oommen Chandy doesn't have the guts to test his will like Late C.M Stephen or Late E. John Jacob. They considered Governing as nothing compared to their faith.
His spiritual father is fasting for justice and rule of law and he has not even the courtsey to visit his father.
This may be a right occasion for the Orthodox faithful to raise their lay leaders in politics.
AS PRESIDENT OBAMA'S ADVISORS SAY " USE EVERY MISFORTUNE AS AN OPPORTUNITY".
Identify the leaders who are with us and support them right now. And the church be with them at election time too.
Where is our M.P and M.L.A from Kottayam ?????
One solution right now may be to allow statusquoe to continue till the High Court Verdict on written agreemnt from the other faction and govt. that any further decision of the High Court will be accepted by both parties and they take responsibility for actions of their people.
Our own chief minster told our delegates to share the property and end this non-christian approach of sabha. We should listen to this great leader and end the war.
Yes. I agree with those who say this is not the final verdict. Yes, I agree with those who say people have the right to protest when they see court's ruling is unjust. However, Jacobite faction's stand in Kolenchery church case and MOSC disputes are different. It was this Jacobite faction who accepted the 1934 constitution and it was this Sreshta Bava who was a bishop who signed accepting the 1934 constitution. It was them who requested the Supreme Court that the then constitution did not provide equal rights to its member parishes. The Supreme Court accepted their grievance and approved the amended constitution. All elections to the Church have been conducted based on the amended constitution ever since. As soon as Jacobites realized that Orthodox faction accepted the amendments they flip flopped. Now they say that they do not accept the constitution for which they requested amendments. One has to understand that an American citizen cannot ask for changes in the Indian constitution or an Indian citizen cannot ask for changes in German constitution. One has to be binding within the constitution to be able to request for a change in it.
It was Jacobites' who requested that an independent person be appointed by SC to monitor the first election to the managing committee. Orthodox did not have any objection and paid equal share to the monitoring person, Justice Malimatt, to conduct the election. As soon as Jacobites realized that Orthodox Church accepted Justice Malimatt and SC verdict they flip-flopped again.
We can expect the same flip-flopping again by Jacobites but remember 'Deceive me once, blame on you; deceive me twice blame on me!'
Dear all,
I feel sorry to see our church leaders playing MAHA BHARAT on TV. I think this is the reason why Mr. Dijo (You are bringing SHAME to a great family name) hailing JAI, JAI Catholicose. We call ourselves followers of Jesus and hailing a Catholicose. Now if you are interested in please join our "Heavenly Feast" church.
The facts are not hard to prove. The Supreme Court and High Court have ruled several times that the Kolenchery church must be administered by the 1934 constitution. There is no more appeal of any sort on this specific case remaining now.
What's so hard to understand this fact.
In a free society you are allowed to own property. There's nothing wrong (spiritural or temporal) with the Roman Catholic Church or a Pentecostal church or Orthodox church or Protestant church or a Temple or Mosque owing property. If your house or car or computer is taken away by a majority against your wish, are you going to keep quiet?
Don't confuse rightful ownership with misplaced examples and theories of democracy, judicial system or 'majority voice'. The majority of members of the Kolenchery church are Orthodox families (please check out the register available with the authority). The Jacobite's number count are the guys they bring on trucks and cars from other towns. In a civilized free society, the justice system interprets the law and judge the case.( whether it fits your religious or personal beliefs or not)
More and more nations and society's in this world are yearning to get civilized.
For the real facts, understanding the history of Christianity in India could help - e.g. just google 'Dr.V.C.Samuel'
Very good postings.
About 2000 years back judicaiary decided to crucify Jesus our Xaviour. Then if chruch belives of lot of faith in judicaiary. It should never accept Jesus, because Jesus was rejected by judicaiary.
We proclaim Jesus or judicaiary.
If Jesus could have filed a case for proving his kingship. Whether he will win???
Majority should always be considered to some extend,but for the kollencherry case there is a clear cut judgement from the court of law,whether lower, higher or apex,which has to be accepted in letter and spirit especially by the party who has filed the same.If it is done with good intention, then there can be discussion of Majority factor,if any, by the both parties through round of talks across the table involving the higher ups,if needed (which can be the Ecumenical forum or legal experts).
The executive failure to implement the law of land shows that our country is in the verge of anarchy. Also, if mass movements can alter the law of the land, then Hindu population could have challenged the Ayodhya ruling and turned it into their favour. Our country is ruled by law. The Jacobite/Bava faction of the Orthodx Church have now challenged the law of the land. The government and the executive should not encourage such precedents. If the Orthodox/Metran faction of the Orthodox church also decide to have such mass movements in its strong holds, the law and order situation in many parts of Kerala would go haywire. We do not live in a barbarian society. we live in a society governed by laws and we (both metran and Bava factions) should not act like Barbarians.
There is a saying,"Lock is for a gentleman not for thieves". Here is a group who has no respect for authority,rule of law or chistian values.They are notorious for disrespecting the Highest judiaciary,rule of law or the religious constitution.They want to claim their rights available in all the above but not to abide by the same.
Here is a case they have filed in the court against an existing custodian of the church challenging their rights to do so and the honourable court has dissmissed their petetion.A law abiding citizen or group would have accepted the verdit and waited for the decision of the appellate court.
Their present action is dangerous for the democratic society at large and the judicial system in this country.May be they are thinking they are in Syria.
Let the law enforcing authorities take note of this.Pray for our religious fathers who are fasting- Surely truth will ultimately prevail.
Abraham,Delhi
My response is to the folks who refer to Jesus, Judiciary, majority voice etc. This is a clear issue about ownership - If yours or your institutional property is taken by the majority, are you going to keep quiet?
1)Jacobites are not majority in Kolenchery St. Peter's church as claimed. Please check out the church register. It's Orthodox.
2)Jacobites/Shreshtan couldn't win anywhere anytime, even with the rules they asked for (Allegience to 1934, Justice Malimuthu, Puthencruz society, priesthood of St. Thomas, Indian Court verdicts No American or Middle East Dioceses, and not being an Autocephalus society)
3) Orthodox have never said that the Jacobite faithful cannot go to worship at St Peter's in Kolenchey. 100% they are welcome to worship and celebrate the liturgy.
4) Jacobite priests and bishops please stay avoid St.Peter's , because your idea has been to disturb and mislead.
3) If you want to quote Jesus Christ, well, He did use His authority firmly and also obeyed the law of the land.
4) Orthodox folks need to build good media to explain the history of the Catholicos of the East from Persian and Sassniad traditions (by the way, there's no Syrian 'Antioch' on the world map today!)
5) For info - Google Fr.Dr.V.C.Samuel, Fr. Mathai Edayanal - they are honest straight talkers.
കോലഞ്ചേരി പള്ളി കേസില് ഓര്ത്തഡോക്സ് സഭക്ക് അനുകൂലമായി ഏറണാകുളം ജില്ലാ കോടതിയില് നിന്നും ഉണ്ടായ വിധി ക്കെതിരെ യാക്കോബായ സഭയുടെ അപ്പീല് ഹൈക്കോടതി ഫയലില് സ്വീകരിച്ച സ്ഥിതിക്ക്, അപ്പീല് വിധി വരുന്നതിനു മുന്പ് കീഴ്ക്കോടതി വിധി നടപ്പാക്കണമെന്ന ഓര്ത്തഡോക്സ് പക്ഷത്തിന്റെ വാദത്തിനു യാതൊരു നിയമ സാധുതയുമില്ല. ജില്ലാ കോടതി വിധി സംബന്ധിച്ച് ഓര്ത്തഡോക്സ് പക്ഷം ഉയര്ത്തുന്ന വാദം ശരിയെങ്കില് എന്ത് കൊണ്ടാണ് വിധി നടപ്പാക്കല് ഹര്ജി ഫയല് ചെയ്യാന് തയ്യാറാകാത്തത്.
കൂര്മ്മ ബുദ്ധിക്കാരായ ഓര്ത്തഡോക്സ് വിഭാഗത്തിന് കേസിന്റെ ഈ ദൌര്ബല്യം നന്നായി അറിയാവുന്നത് കൊണ്ടാണ് കൌശലപൂര്വം അവര് ജനങ്ങളെ തെരുവില് ഇറക്കി, പള്ളി പിടിച്ചെടുക്കുവാന് ശ്രമിക്കുന്നത്. വിധി നടപ്പാക്കല് ഹര്ജി ഫയല് ചെയ്താല് ഇപ്പോഴത്തെ സാഹചര്യത്തില് അനുകൂലമായി യാതൊരു തീര്പ്പും കോടതിയില് നിന്നും ലഭിക്കില്ല എന്ന് തിരിച്ചറിഞ്ഞുകൊണ്ടാണ് സമൂഹത്തെ തെറ്റിദ്ധരിപ്പിച്ചു കൊണ്ട് ഈ സമരാഭാസത്തിനു അവര് ഇറങ്ങിയിരിക്കുന്നത്. ഓര്ത്തഡോക്സ് പക്ഷത്തിന്റെ ഈ കൌശല നീക്കത്തിനെതിരെ യാക്കോബായ സഭാ നേതൃത്വം ഏറെ ജാഗ്രത പുലര്ത്തണം.
95 -ലെ സുപ്രീം കോടതി വിധിയെ തുടര്ന്ന് ഓര്ത്തഡോക്സ് പക്ഷം പള്ളികള് കൈവശപ്പെടുത്തുന്നതിനു വേണ്ടി നടത്തിയ വ്യവഹാരത്തില് കേരള ഹൈക്കോടതി ഡിവിഷന് ബെഞ്ചിന്റെ വിധി ന്യായത്തില് 95 -ലെ സുപ്രീം കോടതി വിധി ഇടവക പള്ളികള്ക്ക് ബാധകമല്ല എന്ന് പ്രസ്താവിച്ചത് ഓര്മ്മിക്കുമല്ലോ. സുപ്രീം കോടതി, ഹൈക്കോടതിയുടെ വിധി റെദ്ദു ചെയ്തത് സാങ്കേതികമായ ചില തകരാറുകള് ചൂണ്ടി കാണിച്ചു കൊണ്ട് മാത്രമായിരുന്നു. വിധി തീര്പ്പ് ഹര്ജി ഫയല് ചെയ്തു അനുകൂല വിധി നേടാതെ ഓര്ത്തഡോക്സ് വിഭാഗത്തിന് പള്ളി വിട്ടു കൊടുക്കാന് സര്ക്കാരിനു നിയമപരമായി കഴിയില്ല.
ബാവ കക്ഷി എന്ന പാത്രിയര്ക്കീസ് വിഭാഗം ഇന്ന് മലങ്കര ഓര്ത്തഡോക്സ് സഭയുടെ ഭാഗമല്ലാ. അവര് 2002 ല് പുതിയ സഭയും അതിനൊരു പുതിയ ഭരണഘടനയും ഉണ്ടാക്കി. അത് കൊണ്ട് ഒരു കാരണവശാലും പള്ളികളും സ്വത്തുക്കളും യാകോബായ സഭയുമായി പന്ഗിടെണ്ട കാര്യമില്ല. സുപ്രിം കോടതി വിധി നടപ്പിലാക്കി പൂര്ണമായും രണ്ടു സഭകളാകുക മാത്രമാണ് സഭ തര്ക്കം തീര്ക്കാനുള്ള ഏക മാര്ഗം.
Dear Ashok
There are many vultures and foxes, like the one you belong (if you not joking) around us and are snatching some of us by showing them colorful apples every now and then.
But if you want to be a true Christian you or your parents shouldn't have to desert the mother church, but you left the Church looking at the worldly fortunes.
Now it is the right time, as a prodigal son we forget what you did , come back. Come boy, oh faithful boy, we welcome you.
What i could make out is for most of the people its not matter of FAITH ..Its just a matter of money and Power
Then its better not to call ourselves as disciples of Christ
This Bhisops are after money ???...it is pathetic ...Common people who have commented here has understood this ,,Then why should we bothered about fasting of Bhisop's ...They are fighting for power and money ...
Not any more for faith ...
We just cannot compare this to any crusade ...Its pure LUST for money and Power for some
Be ashamed to call marthoma christians or syrian christians..
As a comment made , syrian christian population is diminishing ... Who said its not ..And is my friends believe that number will increase once unity achieved by forcing one stand on another ??
Dont know ...
No wonder people are moving from our church to pontecost church's fed up of this fight
Which can be stopped if we come out this legal issue's and concentrating on spiritual needs
Church is just a place of worship , Its not above Jesus christ
regards
Ajit
TRYING TO CHANGE THE RULING OF JUDICIARY - IT MEANS WE WILL LOOSE OUR DEMOCRACY AND PERSONAL RIGHTS.IF ONE IS RICH AND HUNDRED PEOPLE IS TELLING'-GIVE YOUR PROPERTY TO US ? WE WILL GO TO COURT AND COURT WILL GIVE PROTECTION TO US. THAT ONLY WE ARE ASKING THE GOVERNMENT TO SUPPORT US TO FOLLOW THE RULES OF THE JUDICIARY. ORTHODOX SABHA ALWAYS TELLING OF PEACE. THATS WHY WE ARE LOOSING SO MANY THINGS.IN THE HISTORY PROVES THAT. PUTHENKURIZU GROUP HAS NOTHING TO LOOSE. WHAT THEY ARE GETTING IS PROFIT. WE CAN MAKE A COMPRIMISE - ONE WEEK EVERY MONTH FOR PUTHENKURIZU GROUP IN KOLANCHERY AND SAME WEEK ONE SERVICE FOR ORTHODOX SABHA IN MANARKADU PALLY. IS IT APPLICABLE FOR PUTHENKURIZ GROUP?
JACOB MATHEW KARUVATTA
Dear AKJ & syriac voice
I am totally against the major points you commented in this blog.
In a democratic country it is the duty of every citizen to be abide by the constitution of the country. If the majority doesn't want the court verdict, either the majority can file a review petition to the apex court or at certain instances the Parliament itself, elected by the majority, can over rule the court verdict. Being so why the so called church leader conducted stupid street dramas?
Here my question is: which system do you want to follow?
(1)Is it the majority rule? If so do you fully agree with this? Ok, the majority of Malankara sabha follows the 1934 constitution, are you willing to follow this majority constitution?. Now if you agree with this majority rule it easy to me to follow other 'majority affairs'.
(2) Do you want to follow the court verdict? Then,
Who filed case against Kolenchery church? Why can't you accept the court rule? you yourself filed the case and utterly failed, now you say that you don't want to accept court rule, you want majority rule, NONSENSE man,it is nonsense or in raw Malayalam we say "thanthayillashika".
(3) Don't you want either majority rule or court verdict?
Then it is not the place for you, it is not Middle East or Pakistan. Better go and find a place there. It is a democratic country, here you and me have to follow some rules.
I want to say few words about some "bloody manyanmar" among us who feel what our church leaders actions are "shameful" for them. Some of them want our Bava Thrumeni
in a glass chamber, like a doll.Let me tell you either you live as a man or as an woman don't live like none of these entity.
The court decision shows the true justice in this issue.So it is Christ's decision.
യാക്കോബായ വിഭാഗത്തിന് കോടതികളെ പേടിയാണ് കാരണം കോടതികള് എന്നും നിതികും ന്യായത്തിനും ഒപ്പമാണ് ............ അക്രമങ്ങളിളുടെ പള്ളികളില് അധികാരം സ്ഥാപിക്കാന് ആണ് അവര് ശ്രമിക്കുന്നത് .......
The district court ruling in favor of methran Kakshis has no ‘local standi’ as Jacobites appeal against the verdict has been taken in file by the high court. So in legal terms, the status-quo is to be maintained until the High Court pronounces its verdict. The lower court judgement is in no way binding.
Methran kakshis know this fact and that is why they have resorted to their street gimmicks. The question to be asked is ‘ why methran kakshis are not filing an execution petition if everything is in their favor ? ‘ Since they claim they have a favorable court verdict, the only course of action for them is to file an execution petition. But instead they have resorted to street tactics.
The reason is clear. They want to hoodwink the common man, like they did after the 95 court verdict, and get control over the church through such gimmicks. Because, they know very well that if they go the legal way, they have nothing to gain from the present situation.
The Kolenchery issue is shame to Christen community.This is a fraction fight about two group.call for the Kolenchery church members general meeting and collect their opinion and go ahead with that...
James Mathai
After presenting the arguments in the case and the court has given the verdict, and the appeal is filed in the court, this agitation against the court order is utterly 'gundaism'. If these people will not respect the court orders, why they come before the court with their arguments, I don't know. A democrat government should implement the judicial court orders. The laps on the part of government and the unjust style of the media and the political leaders is worsening the situation.
P.Thomas, Piravom
Some of the fools are asking for the Orthodox Church filing " EXECUTION PETITION". This is not a court case originated by the Orthodox Church. It is a case originated by the patriarch faction. They are the one supposed to file execution petition.
As far as Orthodox Church is concerned once the case against them is rejected, situation reverts to normal. No execution petition need to be filed.
I like to get answers to these questions:
1. Name the fist metrapolitan and bava of Malankara Orthodox Church ordained by St. Thomas and when?.
2. Where was the headquarters of Malankara Orthodox Church when St. Thomas was in India?
3. Name one church built by Malankara Orthodox Church when St. Thomas was in India?.
- George C. Thomas, Kuwait wrote:
>> It has been reported that political parties in UDF are in a dilemma regarding solving our Church dispute. Oomen Chandy and UDF leadership is moving cautiously in this regard.
Dear George,
Where are you getting your newses from ??? UDF Government and Oommen Chandy is not in any dilemma. Oommen Chandy already said to give one Church to the other faction and settle this issue. They are working for the other side becasue the other side is the one supporting Oommen Chandy ministry.
And some of you are talking like children as good as no one understands it.
I am UDF supporter as well. But my faith and Church comes first before politics for me. That was the case of Late C.M.Stephen. That was the case of Late E.John Jaacob.
Now we have leaders like OO Chandy from our community and that is our misfortune.
We have to create political leaders through this "Sahana Samaram". Some of our Priests and Lay leaders should be projected to stand for elections as independents in the coming elections.
May be we will not win a single seat. Winning is not the important thing. But, making our presence felt and making out people understanding the need for our political presence is the important thing.
It is a pity that we do not understand the politics of this whole issue. NO COURTS OR NO LAWYERS CAN SAVE US UNTILL WE HAVE THE POLITICAL MUSCLE TO IMPLEMENT THE JUDGMENT.
There must be a joint meeting of all Parishes in an assmebly constitunecy and identify the leaders who are prepared to stand as independents for elections and our Bishops and clergy should suport them with finance and people.
If we are not willing to do this we have to give the other faction what they want and get out of it instead of wasting time..
Hi AKJ, u really dont know what the case is. First listen to the speech of fr.mathai idayanal and then u decide.
Judiciary is right, we just want the court order to be implemented. You should also note that orthodox church never prohibit any belivers to worship in the church. whether it is orthodox/jacobites/any other denominations.
Vayalar Ravi has visited us not just with sympathy. He is in Kerala to take advantage of the boiling situation in Kerala. He has his long time ambition to become chief minister of kerala.
Why don't we use this opportunity align with Vayalar Ravi and put pressure on Oo Chandy from Delhi..
@mr varghese: Why do orthodox church have to file an execution petition? the patriarch fraction filed a case. the courts rejected their case. therefore nothing changed. no need for any execution petition. orthodox fraction made the arrangement to "share" the church before the court confirmed that the church belongs to orthodox and only to orthodox. this court order overthrew that arrangement. and you said to wait for the order on the appeal. again why would anyone do that? whatever that decision is whichever fraction it is against will also file another appeal. it will never stop. @ whoever talked about the wealth and money being the major issue, ofcourse it is if not then the losing party in this case would have done the decent thing and admitted defeat and moved on. if orthodox fraction made it clear that all are welcomed to worship, if it is okey to use the cemetery, Then what is the problem? please explain what is it that they want. it is the church and the wealth assosiated with the church naming the medical center, and colleges and other institutions.
jai jai catholicos.
to add: it is justice and lawful for a mass movement to change rulings. However the problem in kolenchery is not that at all. when the socalled majority (partiarch fraction) filed a case they asked the courts to make a decision. now it is whether or not to respect that decision. the courts do not make opinions or suggestions they make decisions. surely they can appeal. but eventually they would have to respect the order of some court.
Keezhkodathi vidhi eeppohzum high court shari vachittundengil. Koodathiye manikam aayirunnu.. But many cases high court find the judgement made by these lower coutrs were wrong..
Utill supream court says.. please close our mouths
Dear All
As Citizens of India,H.B. Thomas I and his group are supposed to obey the ruling of the court!Again As True Christians,they are bound to respect/follow the court orders!Now The Jacobite church is only playing dirty politics!
To worship God in Truth,there is no need to make any street Drama or play politics in church matters!
As long as the the faithful are free to go worship at Kolenchery ,H.B.Thomas I should stop his street Drama/Treachery immediately!
Dear AKJ
Do not compare the Judiciary of Roman Govt/Pilate during Jesus' time(2000 years back) with Present centuary or modern Indian democracy and Judiciary!This statement of yours are absolutely WRONG(especially first paragraph of your comment)!
The Supreme court of India gave various verdicts in varius times that MOSC should be administered by 1934 constituition!To respect and follow the order of Judiciary or court verdicts are important to true Christians!
Jesus Christ never critisised the Judiciary of Roman Govt/ Roman Law!Whatever the verdict of Roman Govt/Law he just executed/performrd it without any objection!
Jacobite people are free to worship
at Kolenchery church! But their priests/Bishops part of Administration of Jacobite church (are mot MOSC) who are not bound by 1934 Constituition of MOSC, cannot perform any priesly duties at Kolenchery Church!
Respect and follow the word of God and law of the country!
@sunitha
This sunday on church listen carefully when the alter boy reads 1st Tubthen and at this time the priest is making the symbol of cross on tabaletha with his hand. Understand the wordings about pathriarkise bava there, in the jai jai catholicos qurbana.
You also need to understand the feelings on kalenchery church people(line oommen chandy), so read below malgalam Editorial.
http://mangalam.com/index.php?page=detail&nid=477294&lang=malayalam
@vargheese..
Marthoma sleehakku pattathwam illaennu prasthavichathodu koodi malankara sabhaye sambamdhichidatholam yacob III pathrikeese vishwasavipareethiyayi... 7 pallikal stapikkukayum, 4 familiyil ninnum pattakkare vazhikkukayum cheytha marthoma shleehaku pattathwam illa ennu paranjal pathrosee shleeh polum porukkilla.... ee vishwasavipareethe ennu anthochian pathriyarkkese pin valikkunnuvo annu "jai jai catholicose" nte kurbanayil pathriyarkeesinte full name orkkum ... athu vare 4-)o centuryil ariyoose side karaum pinnedu calchedon supportersum bharicha samayam pole antiochian pathriyarkeese illa annu karuthi , sankalpikamayi mar ignatious ennu altar boys iniyum vayikkum...... pinne mone vargheese, swantham appan shandan (impotent) annennum , jananam nalkan capacity illathavanennum ethu thampuran paranjalum abhimanam ulla makkal ethirkkum... thanthakku pirakkathavar athu kettu kai kottum... athu kondanu christuvil namme janippichu , pallikal stapikkukaym pattam kodukkayam cheytha marthoma shleehakku pattam illa ennu kettappol chilar ethirkkukayam chilar clap cheyyukayum cheythathu...
കിഴ്ക്കോടതി വിധി മാനിച്ച് യാക്കോബായ സംഘം പിരിഞ്ഞു പോകണം
thomas bava wil obey all court judgements if the central govt and CBI take a strong stand in vargischettans brutal murder case.
Anil Riyadh:
Issue valare sensitive aayi kazhinjirikunnu...Valare cheria majorityil bharikunna Sri.Oommen Chandyku oru bold theerumanam edukan budhimuttu undakam...
Samarangal valare organised aayi samyamanathode munpotu kondupokendi irikunnu...Aakramangal undayal Police Lathi charge undavukayum, athu sbhaku nanakedu undavukayum cheyyam...Ithrayumnal UDF inu kannum adachu vote cheytha Orthodoxkar adutha electionu marichu oru theerumanam eduthal chila seatkal nashtapedukayum, chilarude oke bhooripaksham kurayukayum oke cheyyam....
മലങ്കര syriac ഓര്ത്തഡോക്സ് -ന്റെ പോസ്റ്റ് കണ്ടു. മഹാത്മാ ഗാന്ധിയും മാര്ടിന് ലുതെറും നെല്സണ് മന്ടെലയും കോര്ട്ട് decision -നെ വെല്ലു വിളിച്ചവര് തന്നെ. ജനാധിപത്യ വിരുദ്ധമായ ഭരണകൂടത്തിന്റെ നിയമവാഴ്ച്ചയെ ആണ് അവര് challange ചെയ്തത്. സാമ്രാജത്യ , വര്ണ വെറിയന് ഭരണധിപത്യത്തിന്റെ പ്രതീകമായ കോടതി വിധികളെയാണ് ആണ് അവര് മാനിക്കാതിരുന്നത് . അതുകൊണ്ട് ആ രാജ്യങ്ങളില് ഭരണഖടനയും നിയമവാഴ്ചയും മാറ്റി എഴുതപെട്ടു. ഏറ്റവും വലിയജനാധിപത്യരാജ്യമായ ഇന്ത്യയുടെ ഭരണഖടനയും നിയമവാഴ്ചയും അങ്ങനെയാണോ? ഈ കോര്ട്ട് decision ഞങ്ങള് അംഗീകരിക്കുന്നില്ല എന്ന് പറയുമ്പോള് തടിയന്റവിടെ നസീറും പ്രധമന്ടവിടെ ശ്രേഷ്ടനും തമ്മില് എന്താണ് വ്യത്യാസം ?
pine enthina kodathiyum niyamavum
Mr. Ronnie
if UDF is not in a dilemma, then why cant they implement court verdict regarding ownership of Kolenchery Church?
I am vexed and baffled by the current situation. It is truly a case of brother against brother. We call ourselves Christians, for that itself it should never have gone this far. ( a judicial court where the judgements are most probably given out by non-Christian judges) Many religious people from both sides have poured out their anguish. People like AKJ have written very sensibly without bias. These events are for us to have a retrospect. What would Yeshua(Jesus)our Christ really have done in this situation? We have to go back to our Bibles and find the answers. We are the temples of the living God, why are we fighting for these worldly possessions? Clearly there is a force behind and it is easy to understand from where it comes from. (It is the worldly spirit of religion) Rather than blaming each other, accept our nature and ask God's forgiveness.
We are supposed to bring people to Yeshua and show the world how we can acomodate each other. These actions played out on the streets bring about SHAME for all Christians, irrespective of the sects they belong to or what the arguments may be. With sincere prayers that peace may prevail and if the Holy Spirit is in the church let It show to the world.
The present verdict of the Dist Court (Spl Church court) is nothing new but an application of the final verdict by the Supreme court in 1995. Denial by the high court to maintain the status co prior to the verdict shows the strength of the present verdict and all law abiding citizens should obey that rather than making themselves a piece of mockery in front of others.
thomas prdamanu addehathinte pyshachika shakthi maatan parishudhatmavu sahayekyatte... oru thirumenikyum iprakaram oru mukam!!!!!!!!
thomas prdamante pyshachika shakti maran parishudhatmavu sahayekyatte.... inganem oru thirumeni!!!!!!
Att: Varghese
It is not the wish of kolechery people (yakobbaya faction). It is the Justice that to be done as per court order!What happened in the ruling of "Ayodhya" ! Nobody raised any voice against the Court ruling/decree, in Ayodhya matter!
It is better for a christian leader like H.B.Thomas I ,to obey the ruling of the court!
MOSC is expecting Justice from the Kerala Govt!
When a minister or public servant is taking an oath that he will stand to protect the constitution and if a chief Minister is not standing to execute the court order then I believe that is against the oath and hense it is a violation of the constitution. If the Government is not serious to honour the Judgement from the Hon. Court then the people will loose their trust in constitution as well as trust in Judiciary and Law & Order and Finally in the integrity of the Government.
The part of the break away fraction formed a New Church after 2002 and claimed their assert on the Church property and approched the Hon. Court and the court did the judgement that the break away party under the leadership of H.B. Thomas I do not have any right on the property of the Kolancherry Church. after that the H.B. Thomas I declared a hunger strike and at the night HB changed that as a chain prayer. The Orthodox church asked the Law and order dept to implement the court order and then the Govt. Of Kerala started game as they did not let to implement the court order. When the Orthodox Church started the hunger strike and possessions only the CM become aware to handle the matter more seriously. Do anyone need to do hunger strike and rallies to get implemented the Court order? So the CM and police Minister made the situation to loose the trust of the people in the Law & Oedser of the Govt. It should not happened.
If a Govt. is denying the right of anyone and not providing the justice then that I doubt that that govt. do not have the right to stay as a Govt.
Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven
Luke 6:37
Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
Luke 6:37
If the Methrakazhi guys had to make our Maphriyano Thomas Pradhaman, the Catholicos, we could have solved the issue in 2002. You guys needed qualification, degree, general knowledge, personality and so on. Now you people suffer inspite of all that you have. See who is KINg.
The procedure we follow in court cases is that we have basically two constitutions, the first is an undampaddy 1913 and then we have the latest 2002 constitution. It is true that our Maphriyano Thomas I has accepted the 1934 constitution in the court. This he had to do because otherwise our people would have gone with the Methrakazhi and got spoiled. There is no question of we loosing a case, beacuse if the casedecree is against us we don't accept it. Even if the Patriarch tells us we can't do this because all cases in Malankara is managed by our Yakob Boordano and a group of intelligent people in our community who does this because they as Chevaliars and commanders are authorised by our Patriarch to take appropraite decision.
None of you guys bothered to answer the questions asked by Varghese.
I am giving the correct answer in brackets.
Name the fist metrapolitan and bava of Malankara Orthodox Church ordained by St. Thomas and when?. (This is a tricky question- The correct answer according to the Antiochian movement is St.Thomas was ordained by the Antiochian (Syrian) Patriarch and send to India. Since he didn't report back to base thru Kapana 203 Patriarch Yakob III removed his priest hood in 1974.)
2. Where was the headquarters of Malankara Orthodox Church when St. Thomas was in India? (This was in Puthencruz, but no body realized it. This came as a vision to Thomas Maphriyano when he was spending his child hood in Malecruz Dayara and then decided to take the name as Thomas and later he set up the headquarter of our church in Puthen cruz.)
3. Name one church built by Malankara Orthodox Church when St. Thomas was in India?. (All the churches with the word " simhasana" was infact built by St.thomas on the express orders of the Patriarch.
If anybody feels otherwise, please don't write to me because these are not my findings they are the findings of Antiochya samrashana Samithi
Anil Riyadh:
Dear Innocent,
Indian Orthodox Church dont want to follow the findings of Antiochya samrashana Samithi...For getting inspiration, u guys can follow it...After reading your first answer, i laughed a lot...really !!!
Anil Riyadh:
Malankara Sabha makalku vendi thyagojwalamaya Upavasa samaram nadathiya Parishudha Catholica Bhava thirumenikum Mathews Mar Severiyos thirumenikum aashamsakal arpikunnu...Sabhaye nayikan kooduthal kooduthal kazhivukal nammude Pithakanmarku kodukan namuku prarthikam....
Anil Riyadh:
Malankara Sabha makalku vendi thyagojwalamaya Upavasa samaram nadathiya Parishudha Catholica Bhava thirumenikum Mathews Mar Severiyos thirumenikum aashamsakal arpikunnu...Sabhaye nayikan nammude Pithakanmarku kooduthal kooduthal kazhivukal kodukan prarthikam....
It is true that supreme court approved 1934 constitution. But it is not apply for individual chruchs. Individual church may accept 1934 or may not. that is there own right. For eg pampukuda chruch, ownn parish of MOSC preist secretray has its own consttuion. So first of all this kolechery chruch has to accept the 1934 constitution. Then only Mosc has right to control that chruch. for that general body of that church has to called. because for 1970 the churhc had not conducted general body. Not oly that kolechery church has its on constitution which already approved in 1913, and that is made for that chruch in veiw to maintain its supreme head as HH partiach and the holy throne. In this juncture you had remind that the first catholica, who belongs to kolechery parish who was conscreted by the expelled partiarch came here in kerala on request vattaserril thirumeni, could'nt enter the kolechery chruch because of the objection from kolechery parishners.
The chruch reunited in 1958 and splited again in 1970's. The all amost all chruch in northern areas of keral has it own very clear cut constitution made in early centuries of 20's which giving all spritual powers to HH partirach of anthioch and the cathloica appointed by athocian Syrian Partriarch. In juncture kolechery chruch case has to be studied by the court according to supreme court verdict, how it should be ruled, considering the right of the individual parish where the court verdict clearly say while accepting the 1934 constitution the individual parish's has it own right to decide which constituion has to be accepted. so the general body or the familes (2000 familes) through election or a general body they can maintian there 1913 constituion (Udambadi) or they can accept 1934 constituion or they can accept the new constituion formed by jacobited syrian orthodox chruch in 2002. That there right.
Let us wait for the court decession as the high accepted the appeal in the court verdict of district court.
Let gods take care of all.
കോലഞ്ചേരിയില് ഇതര സഭകളും പ്രാര്ഥനാ ഗ്രൂപ്പുകളും പിടിമുറുക്കുന്നു
കൊച്ചി: വര്ഷങ്ങളായി പള്ളിത്തര്ക്കം നിലനില്ക്കുന്ന കോലഞ്ചേരി ഇടവകയില്നിന്ന് ഇതര സഭകളിലേക്കും പ്രാര്ഥനാ ഗ്രൂപ്പുകളിലേക്കും വിശ്വാസികള് ചേക്കേറുന്നു.
എട്ടുവര്ഷത്തിനിടെ ഇടവകപരിധിയില് 11 പ്രാര്ഥനാ ഹാളുകളാണ് പെന്തക്കോസ്ത് സഭകള് ആരംഭിച്ചത്. തങ്കു ബ്രദറിന്റെ സ്വര്ഗീയ വിരുന്നും ഇതില്പെടും. സഭാതര്ക്കത്തിനു നേതൃത്വം നല്കിയവര് മുതല് വൈദികരുടെ കുടുംബാംഗങ്ങള്വരെ വിടുതല്, റിവൈവല് പ്രസ്ഥാനങ്ങളില് അഭയം തേടുന്നു.
കോലഞ്ചേരി പള്ളി സംബന്ധിച്ച പ്രധാന കേസുകളില് ഓര്ത്തഡോക്സ് വിഭാഗത്തിനുവേണ്ടി വാദിയായ എന്.പി. ജോണ് ഇപ്പോള് പെന്തക്കോസ്ത് സഭയിലാണ്. പള്ളിയിലെ മൂന്നു പ്രധാന ശുശ്രൂഷകരില് (കപ്യാര്) രണ്ടുപേരുടെ കുടുംബം ഇപ്പോള് പെന്തക്കോസ്ത് സഭയിലാണ്.
ഇടവകയിലെ പ്രമുഖരായ പലരും ഇപ്പോള് പള്ളിയില് വരാറേയില്ലെന്നാണ് ഇരുവിഭാഗത്തെയും വൈദികര് പറയുന്നത്. ഇവരുടെ മക്കളില് പലര്ക്കും പള്ളിത്തര്ക്കത്തോടു കമ്പവുമില്ല. അവരില് ചിലര് നവീന ഗ്രൂപ്പുകളുമായി സഹകരിച്ചു പ്രവര്ത്തിക്കുന്നു. ഞായറാഴ്ച കുര്ബാനയില് പള്ളിയില് പങ്കെടുക്കുന്നവരുടെ എണ്ണം പകുതിയായി. പെന്തക്കോസ്ത് ഹാളുകളിത്തെുന്ന അമ്പതുപേരെങ്കിലും കോലഞ്ചേരി ഇടവകക്കാരാണ്.
കോലഞ്ചേരി പള്ളിക്കു സമീപം പുതുതായി ആരംഭിച്ച റോമന് കത്തോലിക്കാ പള്ളിയിലെ നൊവേനയില് ഓര്ത്തഡോക്സ് വിശ്വാസികള് കൂട്ടമായി പങ്കെടുക്കുന്നുവെന്നാണു കുറച്ചുനാള്മുമ്പ് പരിശുദ്ധ കാതോലിക്ക ബാവയ്ക്കു നല്കിയ നിവേദനത്തില് ചൂണ്ടിക്കാണിച്ചിരുന്നത്.
മുരിങ്ങൂര് കേന്ദ്രമായുള്ള കത്തോലിക്കാ കരിസ്മാറ്റിക് പ്രസ്ഥാനത്തിന് കഴിഞ്ഞ പത്തുവര്ഷമായി കോലഞ്ചേരിയില് എല്ലാ ഞായറാഴ്ചയും യോഗങ്ങളുണ്ട്. അതിന്റെ മുഖ്യസംഘാടകരും ഓര്ത്തഡോക്സ് സഭാംഗങ്ങള് തന്നെയെന്നാണ് നിവേദനത്തില് പറയുന്നത്.
സഭാതര്ക്കത്തില് നിരാശയുള്ളവരെ വലവീശാന് വിവിധ എപ്പിസ്കോപ്പല് സഭകളും ഇവിടെ പ്രവര്ത്തനം തുടങ്ങിയിട്ടുണ്ട്. അന്ത്യോഖ്യന് ആരാധന പിന്തുടരുന്ന മലങ്കര കത്തോലിക്കാ റീത്ത് മൂവാറ്റുപുഴ കേന്ദ്രമാക്കി രൂപത ആരംഭിച്ചു. കോഴഞ്ചേരി പോലെ എല്ലാ സഭാ വിഭാഗങ്ങള്ക്കും വളക്കൂറുള്ള മണ്ണായി കോലഞ്ചേരിയും മാറാന് കാരണം ശതാബ്ദം പിന്നിട്ട കക്ഷിവഴക്കുതന്നെ.
സഭാതര്ക്കത്തിനു ശാശ്വത പരിഹാരം കാണാന് ഇടവക പൊതുയോഗം വിളിക്കണമെന്നു യാക്കോബായ വിഭാഗവും, ഓര്ത്തഡോക്സ് കക്ഷിയിലെ ഒരുകൂട്ടരും നിരന്തരം ആവശ്യപ്പെട്ടുവരുന്നതാണ്. പൊതുയോഗം ചേര്ന്ന് ഇടവകയുടെ ഭരണകാര്യങ്ങള് തീരുമാനിക്കട്ടെയെന്നാണ് അവരുടെ നിലപാട്. കോടതി വിധിയിലൂടെ എങ്ങനെയും പള്ളിയില് അധികാരമുറപ്പിക്കാനാണ് ഓര്ത്തഡോക്സ് നേതൃത്വത്തിന്റെ ശ്രമമെന്നു മറുപക്ഷം ആരോപിക്കുന്നു. പൊതുയോഗം ചേര്ന്ന് ജനാധിപത്യരീതിയില് തീരുമാനമെടുക്കാന് കഴിയുന്ന സാഹചര്യമുണ്ടാകാതെ കോലഞ്ചേരി പള്ളിത്തര്ക്കത്തിനു ശാശ്വത പരിഹാരമുണ്ടാക്കാന് കഴിയില്ല. യാക്കോബായ സഭയുടെ 2002 ലെ ഭരണഘടനയോ, ഓര്ത്തഡോക്സ് സഭയുടെ 1934 ലെ ഭരണഘടനയോ തെരഞ്ഞെടുക്കാന് ഇടവകയ്ക്ക് അവകാശമുണ്ട്.
ഇടവകക്കാര് സ്ഥാപിച്ച പള്ളികള് ഭരിക്കാനുള്ള അവകാശം അവര്ക്കു മാത്രമാണെന്നാണ് 1995 ലെ സുപ്രീംകോടതിയുടെയും 2003 ജനുവരി 26 ലെ ഹൈക്കോടതി ഡിവിഷന് ബെഞ്ചിന്റെയും വിധി. മലങ്കര മെത്രാപ്പോലീത്തായ്ക്ക് തനിച്ചു പള്ളികളില് അവകാശമോ നിയന്ത്രണമോ ഇല്ല. ഇടവക പള്ളികളെ ബാധിക്കുന്ന യാതൊരു ഉത്തരവും 1995 ല് സുപ്രീംകോടതി നല്കിയിട്ടില്ല.
പള്ളി സ്വത്തുക്കളുടെ ഭരണം സംബന്ധിച്ചല്ല പ്രസ്തുത വിധി. ജനാധിപത്യം സഭയുടെ അടിസ്ഥാന തത്വങ്ങളില് ഒന്നായി സുപ്രീംകോടതി നിരീക്ഷിച്ചു. കോടതി ഉത്തരവ് നടപ്പാക്കേണ്ടത് സര്ക്കാരല്ലെന്നും കോടതിവിധികള് നിയമം അനുശാസിക്കുന്ന നടപടികളിലൂടെ മാത്രമേ നടപ്പാക്കാവൂ എന്നുമാണ് 2003 ല് ഹൈക്കോടതി വിധിച്ചത്. ഈ വിധി സുപ്രീംകോടതി സ്റ്റേ ചെയ്യാത്തതിനാല് നിലനില്ക്കുകയാണ്.
@ Vinup
Please find the 1995 Supreme Court Verdict.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/8342467/The-Supreme-Court-Judgement
Please do read Page 70 and 71.
Here are some lines from page 70 and 71
" The church in England is also an 'Episcopal' church. In Halsbury's laws of England , the right of Parishioners has been described,' to enter the church remain there for purpose of participating in divine worship to have a seat and to obey the reasonable directions of the church to ordain'. The property vests in the endowment. That is the fundamental difference between 'congregational'and 'episcopal'. In the former it vests in the parishioner. But in the latter in 'endowment'. Once it is conceded that the Syrian Churches are ''episcopal' in character then the distinction between spiritual and temporal is of no consequence. Therefore the property of the church vests in the endowment and not with the parishioners."
Another few lines from the supreme court verdict, 'The parish churches are those governed in their administration by the constitution of the Malankara church"
Another line (Page 73), "Suffice to it to say that the parishes are the churches which cannot claim to be separate or autonomous bodies only because their racial and culture origin was different."
Whatever you did mention above, can you show that in the verdict? Whatever you did mention are EXACTLY OPPOSITE of whats mentioned in the verdict. Please refer, and validate what you read and what your hear from Jacobite sources.
How to Answer other denominations questions :
Question : Can we not find some amicable arrangement for sharing or worship by turns.
Answer : Well, any common man can think that way. I also thought initially that it is an issue of property and dividing the assets according to membership will resolve this issue once and for all. It is not an issue of property, though it looks like that. It is an issue of some people breaking the law which all of us had agreed. Nowhere in the Bible it says to reward law breakers.
Neither God the Father nor God the Son taught us to reward disobedience. God the Father in fact punished disobedience. God the Son did not punish; but, asked to repent and come back. That is the only thing we are asking. Repent and come back. Kolenchery Church is open to every one including Shreshta Bawa H.B.Thomas 1. What we are asking is repent and come back. Obey the law you have signed up and agreed many times in the past.
If I may borrow an analogy from Genesis : It was just an apple the poor woman Eve ate which made the whole mankind fall from God’s grace. We may think it was a simple apple and why God did not forgive that simple mistake. It was not a matter of the simple apple. There was something behind it. That was breaking the Law God had given to man. Sin came in to the world because of “One Man’s disobedience”, not because one man ate an apple.
Same is the case in our current Church dispute. Just one man broke the law. We have a Law agreed by every one as to how a Bishop will be ordained in our Church. One Priest Rev. C.M.Thomas broke that law and appeared with red robes after two months of missing from Kerala. He broke the law and he invited wrath on his people.
He declared in front of media for years that there are no court cases filed by him and now it all exposed to the media that he was lying.
He made press statement in 2002 that the Jacobite church is no way involved in the murder of our member Late Shri. Malankara Varughese and now one of his right hand Priest is the first accused in the case. This story too will evolve over time.
As our HG Osthathois Thirumeni said there is no Church in the whole world named as “Jacobite” Church. He created that Church lying to his people.
Our Church is the same for hundreds of years. Our constitution is the same since we made it in 1934. It was the same in 1934, 1958, 1995 and 2011. Lately Supreme court of India asked us to make some amendments to reflect proportionate representation which we did. In fact H.B. Thomas 1 had asked for it after signing allegiance to that same constitution. He himself and most of his people as well as the Patriarch of Antioch had signed up on this constitution at different times individually and collectively.
If we reward one Priest Fr. C.M.Thomas for breaking the law we may have to repeat it again and again. Then we will become a Church of law breakers. I do not think that is what God wanted from us. If you don’t agree to the law, go out and make your own law.
For example I have relinquished my Indian citizenship and become a Canadian citizen few years back. I have some assets and house in India. If I come to India and put a Canadian flag in front of my house and ask the police to apply the Canadian law on me; do you think they are going to agree ?? I have to operate within the Indian law when I am India though I am a Canadian Citizen. If I am allowed to sell my assets as per Indian law I can. If not, nothing can be done.
The Patriarch faction made the new Jacobite Church and a new constitution and if they want a share in the Kolenchery church property they should find a way out for it staying within the 1934constitution they were following when they were members of that Church. This is what the court is saying and no courts in India can change it. If any court in India changes it, the next day Indian states like Kashmir, Punjab, Tamil Nadu, Meghalaya will ask for self determination free from the constitution of India.
Question “ What Jesus would Say?” about Kolenchery dispute ??
Answer : “ John 17:21 That all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. “
The wish of Jesus for all of us is to be “ONE” in HIM. We have to make every challenge an opportunity to unite. We have one faith, one leader, one tradition, one liturgy. Therefore, unity is the only solution.
Patriarch of Antioch is our Leader same way St. Peter was the leader of St. Thomas. Both had the same designation as “Disciple of Jesus Christ” though when they came together St. Peter stood in the front.
Throne of St. Thomas is ornamental same way throne of St. Peter is ornamental. Even if there is a real throne it is in Rome, not in Antioch.
This whole law and order problems are created by few disobedient individuals and 99 percent of the people who appear to be following HB Thomas 1 do not have any part in this problem. Therefore, let the courts and law and order take care of that 1 percent disobedient folks who has decided to take law in to their own hands.
It may take one year or ten years or hundreds of years for those disobedient people to be brought to either justice or reconciliation. We have to show patience. That is what Jesus says.
The Church is trying for last 2000 years to reconcile the world with the Father. Did it happen ?? So, relax and allow the law to take it’s course. To the
Marthomites and other sects who are trying to pick on us about this fight; you know their intentions. Their whole intention is to steal our sheeps. To catch fish in muddled waters.
if u note the letter given by collector u may see its addressed to Vicar, St Peters & St Pauls Syrian orthdox church.. U name ur church malankara orthdox or IOC..
all orthodox chruch believers should stop voting for Ommen Chanding and stop reading Malayala Manorama.
All Orthodox chruch followers should their strength durinh the next election.I belong to Puthupally assembly and voted for Ommne chandy all my life.Dear Ommen chandy...wait till next election.We should vote against all politicians who worked against orthodox chruch(Especially Pallom Block panchayat vicepresident Johny Joseph who tried to attack OCYM memeber)
The problem can be easily solved if Indian Orthodox Church accepts in written as below: -
1. There is no throne named Marthoma simhasanam.. The correct one is throne of St. Peter, which Indian Orthodox church followed till 1972.
2. The supreme head of the church is Patriarch of Antioch
3. Catholicose come under Patriarch of Antioch.
If all the above are accepted in “GOOD FAITH”, then there is no problem in Malankara Syrian Orthodox Church; and both factions could be UNITED. Else its better to relieve both churches to function independently following their know belief. The church properties shall be resolved in democratic way, by conduction “pothu yogam” and then decide the sharing of properties and split into two different churches.
Its very easy to say to take court order and enforce it when majority are on the other side or opposite side. Government could enforce it for one or two time (i.e. may with military etc), but will not last for long. There will be disaster in that area later.
Judiciary should be used to maintain harmony and peace in the land; not to destroy the harmony and peace.
Please do not feel I am disrespecting Indian Orthodox Church as a whole; with full respect I am saying they must hear the voice of the 1500 member of the Kolenchery St.Peter & Pauls church also.
IT IS NOT PROBLEM OF JACOBITE FROM OUR FOR FATHER SYRIAN HAS NEVER LIVED UNITY EVERY CENTURY MANY GROUP LEFT US WENT TO JOIN FOREIGN GROUP TO DEAFT HIS OWN BROTHER TO CAPTURE POWER .FOREIGN CHRISTIAN MADE USES OF THIS OPPRUNITY .FROM ZERO MALABAR MARTHOMITES REETH ETC ALL LEFT US NOT ON FAITH BISHOP PERSONAL GAINS JACOBITE BISHOP OR ORTHODOX BISHOP THEY KNOW PEOPLE VERY WELL NEW GROUP IS FORMED TODAY THERE WILL PEOPLE TO SUPPORT THEM LOYALITY NOT ON FAITH BEACAUSES WE NEVER SUPPORTED WEAKER SECTION IN OUR COMUNITY WE TAKE BRIBE FROM TEACHER ,STUDENTS & COMMON MAN GET THERE WORK DONE.
PATRIACH MADE OPPRUNITY USEFULLY HE KNOWS VERY WELL MALANKARA CHRISTIAN LOYALITY IS LIKE PASSING CLOUD. MOST OF THE OUTSIDE INDIA UNDER HIS CONTROL GOOD WORK HE IS NOT FOOLISH KERALA SYRIAN CHRISTIAN
HIS OWN PEOPLE WILL BE NOT SO LOYALITY TO HIM LIKE JACOBITE. FAITH ONCES WE ADOPTED WE READY ACCEPT HIM HAS MASTER & DIE FOR HIM HATRED TOWARDS ORTHODOX HAS BROUGH CLOEST PATRIACH GOOD WORK BY THOMAS-1 & TEAM . NORTH SIDE KERALA MINIORITY SUPPORT NEAR BY COUNTRY BASED ON RELIGION & KILL FELLOW CITIZEN NOW SAME SITUATION CENTRAL KERALA SOTHERN STATE KASHMIRI. IT IS UP TO MAJORITY RELIGION TO CONSIDER THESES GROUP HAS SECONDARY CITIZEN HAS DONE IN SYRIAN COUNTRY SO THAT THERE WILL SOLUTION TO THESES PROBLEM BETTER & unity of the country.
@ Geogy Abraham
Even if we accept all the three, still there will be no peace.
1. Your thirumeni, will demand, he be the catholicos of the united church, like he demanded in 1995-2000 period.
2.The Jacobites, who make profit from institutions and churches in Ekm, Angamaly, kandanad districts will demand 'no rights' for the IOC members, in the monetary/decision making affairs of these institutions and churches
3. The 'story writers' of SOCM Forum, Malankara Syriac Voice, Vishwasa somrakshakan, will go on stike, demanding rights to go about making fancy creative stories.
യാകോബ പള്ളികളില് നിന്നും, യകോബായ സ്ഥാപനഗളുടെ ഭരണ സ്ഥാനഗളില് ഇരുന്നു "ഗാന്ധിയെ" പോക്കറ്റില് ആക്കുനവന്മാര് ഇപ്പൊ സമ്മതിക്കും യോജിക്കാന്.
ഇത് വരെ ഒറ്റയ്ക്ക് തിന്നു സുഖിച്ചു, സ്വയം ഭരണം നടത്തുന്ന ഒരു ഒറ്റയാള് തിരുമേനിക്കും കൂട്ടര്ക്കും "യോജിപ്പ് " എന്ന് കേള്കുമ്പോള് തന്നെ രോമാഞ്ചം അല്ലെ !!!
എന്തിനാ ചേട്ടാ, യാകോബകാരുടെ എല്ലാ മാസികകിലും ഒരിടം ഓര്ത്തഡോക്സ്കാര്ക്ക് തെറി പറയാന് മാത്രം നീക്കി വെച്ചിരിക്കുനത്?? SOCM ഫോറത്തില് സ്ഥിരമായി കള്ളാ കഥകള് എഴുതുനവന്മര്കൊന്നും പ്രതിയെകിച്ചു അജണ്ട ഒന്നുമില്ലല്ലോ ....
ചിലവന്മാര്ക്ക്, "ചെവ്ല്യാര്", "ബാര് ഈതോ ", എന്നാ പദവി ഒക്കെ കൊടുത്ത പത്രിഅര്കീസുമായി , ബന്ധം പോകുമോ എന്നാ പേടി..
ഇവന്മാരൊക്കെ ഇപ്പൊ യോജിക്കും ..... "യോജിപ്പ്" എന്നാ വാക്ക് എത്ര തവണയാണ് യാകോബ നേത്രുത്വം ഉപയോഗികുനത് .....
പ്രിയ വിനുപ്
കോലഞ്ചേരിയില് കഴിഞ്ഞ പത്തു വര്ഷമായി മുരിങ്ങൂര് കരിസ്മാറ്റിക്കിലും പുതുതായി കുരുത്തു വന്ന കത്തോലിക്ക പള്ളിയിലും വിദേശ ശക്തികളുടെ പിന്ബലത്തില് കുരുത്തുവരുന്ന മറ്റുപ്രസ്ഥാനങ്ങളിലും മലങ്കര സഭാ മക്കള് പോകുന്നത് സത്യം തന്നെയോ? എങ്കില് അതിനര്ത്ഥം തോമസ് പ്രഥമനും കൂട്ടരും റോമായുടെയും മറ്റും പണം പറ്റിയിട്ടു ദല്ലാള് പണി നടത്തുകയെന്നാണ്. സഭയെ വെട്ടിപ്പിളര്ത്തുന്നതിനു വേണ്ടിയാണല്ലോ മലങ്കരവറുഗീസിനെപ്പോലെയുള്ളവരെ അറുംകൊല ചെയ്യുന്നതിന്റെ പിന്നിലുള്ള രഹസ്യം. മലങ്കര സഭയെന്നല്ല ലോകത്തിലുള്ള സര്വ്വ ഓര്ത്തഡോക്സ് സഭകളെയും നശിപ്പിക്കുകയെന്നത് കത്തോലിക്ക അജണ്ടയിലെ ഒന്നാമത്തെ ഐറ്റമാണ്.
കാരണം പോപ്പിന്റെ അപ്രമാദിത്യത്തെ എതിര്ക്കുന്നത് ഓര്ത്തഡോക്സ് സഭകളാണല്ലോ. അപ്പോള് പ്രഥമനും കൂട്ടരും മലങ്കര സഭയെ മാത്രമല്ല സിറിയന്
സഭയെയും നശിപ്പിക്കാനുള്ള കളിയാണ് കളിക്കുന്നത്. ഈ നീച പ്രവര്ത്തിക്കു ഞാനും വിനുപും കൂട്ട് നില്ക്കാമോ? "അന്ത്യോക്യ"യെന്ന് ഉരുവിട്ടു നടക്കുന്നവര് ഇതു മാനസ്സിലാക്കുന്നില്ല. ആരേലും പറയുന്ന അറ്റവും മുറിയും കേട്ട് രോഷാകുലരായി എടുത്തുചാടാതെ നിജസ്ഥിതി മനസ്സിലാക്കി പ്രവര്ത്തികുക. നമ്മുടെ സഭയെ ചെന്നായ്ക്കള് കടിച്ചു കീറാതിരിക്കുന്നതിനു നമുക്ക് ഒരുമിച്ചു നില്ക്കാം.
സ്നേഹത്തോടെ
Mr. Gwdin George,
You can vote the CPM candidate next time. There is nothing going to happen.You can stop the subscriptions of Manorama and there is nothing going to happen either. Oommen Chandy and Manorama are tired of this fight and they are not at all interested in this matter any more. Thats it.Do you know why Justice Pius George did not accept the Appeal plea of the Jacobit church. THE SAME EMOTION.Do you know why the Justices and advocates are reluctant to take the church cases any more? BEACUSE PEOPLE ARE TIRED, BROTHER. If a husband and wife fight each other and seperate, one or two times, the friends and relatives may come and help them to reconcile, but third time they dont even pay any attention to them and label them as the "COMMON FIGHTERS". This is what happened to these churches too. Both factions has "HISTORIC SUPPORT" to reiterrate their perspectives. But is that going to help to get the eternal salvation? I know its useless to say this kind of things in this forum.But at least one person is agreed with my opinion, I feel my mission is succeeded. MY BELOVED BROTHERS AND SISTERS, LET US READ THE WRITINGS OF THE WALL AND STOP THIS FIGHT.GLORY TO GOD IN THE HIGHEST AND PEACE TO HIS PEOPLE ON EARTH.
Dear Friends,
After reading many of the comments, especially from the people who are supporting the Jacobites, I feel that some of those guys do not have any idea about the 1995 Supreme Court Order. Here with I appeal to all of them to read that Verdict and understand the same by themselves, rather than blindly following what was taught to them by their Church people.
The complete verdict of the supreme court is available at the court web site. You can search for it by the date, which is 20th June 1995.
Those who doesn't have the time and patience to go through the full verdict can read the following few points from the same.
1. The Parishes are bound by the constitution framed in 1934.(Last Line, First para of Page 60 of 68 ) (Also refer last line last para of Page 54 of 68)
2. The claim, therefore, that the Patriarch Churches are autonomous and independent in temporal matters cannot be accepted. ( Last 2 sentences, Last 9 lines of Page 62 of 68)
3. The constitution framed by the Malankara Association as amended from time to time shall govern the Churches attached to the Malankara Association. ( Point 3 of Page 68 of68 )
4. All churches, except those which are of Evangelistic Association or Simhasana or St. Mary are under spiritual and temporal control of the Malankara Association in accordance with 1934 Constitution. ( Point no. 7 of Page 67 of 68 )
5. The constitution framed in 1934 by Malankara Association is valid. ( Point 3b of Page 66 of 68)
6. Relationship between the two spiritual superiors, that is, the Patriarch of Antioch and Catholico of the East at Malankara is neither of superior nor subordinate but of two independent spiritual authorities with Partriarch at the highest in the hierarchy. ( Point 1 of Page 68 of 68 )
Hope this gives much clarity to the whole situation and the case.
Accept the fact, even if it is not to your liking.
In any civilized society, NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW OF THE COUNTRY.
Obey the laws of the country, accept the respectable court verdicts and live peacefully.
FULL HISTORY OF METHRAN KASHY SABHA –READ-------------------------why bava kashy opposes methran kashy-----
When Mar Dionysius VI became the Malankara Metropolitan, the Patriarch demanded a registered deed from Mar Dionysius declaring perfect allegiance to the patriarch . Mar Dionysius strongly refused to yield to the demands of the Patriarch.
The Patriarch excommunicated Mar DionysiusVI on 31st May 1911.The excommunication of Mar Dionysius created divisions in the Malanakara Church.
Those who supported Mar Dionysius were called METHRAN KASHY and those who supported Patriarch of Antioch called BAVA KASHY
It is evident that methran kashy sabha was formed only in 1911 and Bava Kashy (People believing in Antioch was their long before).It is also evident that methran kashy had been expelled from Syrian church in 1911 itself
The consecration of the Catholicose (MARTHOMA SIMHASANAM BY ANTIOCH SIMHASANAM)
When the Patriarch excommunicated mar Dionysius VI, there were two Patriarchs of Antioch; one was Abdulla who had powers according to the LEGAL DOCUMENTS knows as Firman of the Turkish government and the other was Abdedmassiah who was senior and at the same time INACTIVE at Turkey since the government withdrew his firman.
Abdulla was the one who excommunicated the Malanakara Metropolitan Mar Dionysius. The METHRAN KASHY contacted Abdedmassiah and invited him to Malankara. The patriarch came and presided over the meetings of the FRAUD Synod of the METHRAN KASHY Church that decided to consecrate an asset head ( Catholicose) for the Malankara Church. Mar Ivanios Metropolitan of the Kandanadu Diocese was unanimously proposed to the post of Deposed Catholicose.
On 15th September 1912, at St. Marys Church founded by St.Thomas in Niranam, Mar Ivanios Metropolitan was consecrated with the name Mar Baselios Paulose First as the first Deposed Catholicose of METHRAN KASHY . The chief celebrant of the consecration ceremony was the Deposed Patriarch Mar Abdedmassiah himself. After the consecration the Deposed Patriarch issued two Kalpanas declaring the importance, privileges, powers and functions of the Deposed Catholicose.
All the authorities and privileges enjoyed by the Deposed Patriarch in the Church as its head was given to the Deposed Catholicose also by the deposed Patriarch
DEPOSED PATRIARCH CAN ONLY INSTITUTE A DEPOSED CATHOLICOSE
By the consecration of the Deposed Catholicose the Indian Church asserted and declared its full autonomy and became a full autocephalous (having its own head) Church and separated from Syrian church (BAVA KASHY)
The Patriarchate was developed in Russian Orthodox Church between 1448 and 1589. In Rumenia it was established in 1885. The Serbian Patriarcahte was established in 1879 and the Bulgarian patriarchate was established in 1883. The patriarchate of Ethiopea was established in 1958 only. It happened in the METHRAN KASHY CHURCH in 1912. That is how methran kashy sabha evolved
THE PEOPLE WHO BILIEVE IN ANTIOCH WAS HERE LONG AGO BEFORE 1912 , PEOPLE BELIEVING IN ANTIOCH ARE LIVING TODAY ALSO .THOSE WHO REFUSED ANTIOCH AND FORMED A METHRAN KASHY SABHA SHOULD KEEP THEM SEPARATE .WHY ARE THEY ATTACKING OTHERS SHAME TO THE CHRISTIANITY
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