Monday, February 21, 2011

Actual Crisis faced by Orthodox Believers in northern parts of kerala

An exclusive speech from Fr. Thomas Paul Ramban (Vicar, Marthoman Orthodox Cheria Pally, Kothamangalam)

99 comments:

Isaac said...

There are good and bad people every where. Seen below is a message from internet group discussions we have.
In the discussion on call for unity in Malankara Church, a gentleman expressed his frank opinion:
As I understand it, the `Malankara Sabha Samadhana Samithi' called for cooporation and peace between the two factions and not unification. It appeared to me in perfectly good sense and a sentiment which any Christian would echo. Being a rather optimistic man, I fail to see the "trap" which some seem to be alluding to.

Is it a bad thing to encourage cooporation among the two factions? I don't think so.

As another gentleman wrote, we have more things in common with the MOSC than anyone
else. We come from the same stock, believe in the same faith, follow the same liturgy, use the same vestments and so forth. Any reason, other than a deviation from Orthodox faith, is trivial and can be or rather must be resolved through dialogs.

Any attempt to bring peace to the Church must start from the ground level. If a consensus can be reached by ordinary people, like you and me, the leadership of both the factions would be forced to recognize it. And it is my humble opinion that any group, like `Malankara Sabha Samadhana Samithi', that has any chance to achieve that end should be encouraged.

Now, the response to the above is from a woman. The lady seems to be a Dr (suspect is she a bona fide one?) injects poison to ‘nip in the bud’ any such fruitful discussions. See the appalling reply of the so called Dr. It makes one think: Did the crazy doctor ever study church history? If yes, must have been from some fanatic source. Read below the crazy Dr.’s reply:
I read your message with title Call for unity in Malankara Church. It gives inspiration to all good Christians. But the irony is this - Call for unity is a Curse in disguise, for any history students of Malankara Church, when we realize what we lost by our so called unity with this dissident faction (Indian Orthodox Church) in 1958. We lost so many of our Churches and Institutions and ended up in ceaseless court cases against our Churches. Now let me quote some of your statements and my responses to them:

QUOTATION NO. 1 : AS THE OTHER GENTLEMAN WROTE, WE HAVE MORE THINGS IN COMMON WITH THE MOSC THAN ANYONE ELSE.
COMMENT: That is true. The fact about them is - they are the only people who tried to totally destroy our Church yesterday and today. They triggered two divisions in our Malankara Syrian Orthodox Church (Jacobite Church) and lead to the formation of Indian Orthodox Church (MOSC) in 1912 and aftermath of it Malankara Syrian Catholic Church in 1930. Lately, we have even SOLID PROOF that one of their priests standing in the Madhabhaha of Alwaye Thrikkunnath Seminary Church, calling for the annexation of our Churches by gimmicks.
Page 2
Isaac Joseph. K.

Isaac said...

Page 2
QUOTATION NO.2: WE COME FROM THE SAME STOCK, BELIEVE IN THE SAME FAITH, FOLLOW THE SAME LITURGY, USE THE SAME VESTMENTS AND SO FORTH. ANY REASON, OTHER THAN A DEVIATION FROM ORTHODOX FAITH, IS TRIVIAL AND CAN BE OR RATHER MUST BE RESOLVED THROUGH DIALOGS.
COMMENT: Indian Orthodox Church (MOSC) claims that they are the descendants of Nestorians. They claim that until 1599, they depended on the Assyrian (Persian) Church for prelate to ordain their priests. Eastern Chaldean Syriac or Assyrian language is the language of liturgy of Nestorians. We, Antiochian Syrian Orthodox Church use West Syriac Language in our liturgy. Again the Vestments of the Metropolitians and Priests of Nestorians are also different from ours. The Chaldeon Church at Trichur are the Nestorians in Kerala. But it is a great
mystery why Indian Orthodox Church (MOSC) use our liturgy and our vestments.
This is obviously a DOUBLE STANDARD AND FOOD FOR THOUGHTS. According to their
claim on the ancestry of their Church, they could have either merged with Chaldeon Church at Trichur or make an alliance with them, instead of disturbing us.

Again with regard to belief of Nestorians: They don't believe that St. Mary as the Mother of God. They believe that Jesus Christ was born an ordinary human being. In a later stage God abode in Him. In AD 431 at Council of Ephesus, Nestorian was excommunicated and the Indian Orthodox Church claims that they are the descendants of Nestorians. We, Malankara chapter of the Antiochian Syrian Orthodox Church believe that we exists continuously in Kerala for the past 2000 years. So how can we state that Indian Orthodox Church and we Antiochian Syrian
Orthodox Church come from the same stock. This is a WRONG NOTION.

QUOTATION NO.3: ANY ATTEMPT TO BRING PEACE TO THE CHURCH MUST START FROM THE GROUND LEVEL. IF A CONSENSUS CAN BE REACHED BY ORDINARY PEOPLE, LIKE YOU AND ME, THE LEADERSHIP OF BOTH THE FACTIONS WOULD BE FORCED TO RECOGNIZE IT. AND IT IS MY HUMBLE OPINION THAT ANY GROUP, LIKE `MALANKARA SABHA SAMADHANA SAMITHI', THAT HAS ANY CHANCE TO ACHIEVE THAT END SHOULD BE ENCOURAGED.
COMMENT: Why should we insert our head into the cage of wolves after knowing that they are the real wolves who are trying all Pathinettu (18) Adavukal to capture our Churches. Instead of falling prey for to them, I feel that we should form a committee in each and every parish to educate our people about the Church history and how much harm they did and still doing against our Church. This will make our laities aware of the trap and protect our Church.

Again, your usage TWO FACTIONS is need to be reconsidered. We can say two factions prior to a split only. But this dissident group (IOC), broke away from us on 1912. In 1958, they merged with us. Again they split away from us on 1975. Now all we have to say is PUKANGA KOLLI PURATHE.


Remarks: So long as we have crazy Dr.’s such as this lady, no fruitful achievement can ever be expected from discussion on call for unity in Malankara Church. People such as this damsel are the ones who sow the ‘weeds among the wheat’. So, what shall we do with people such as this damsel? Throw them over board from the ship sailing in the discussion on call for unity in Malankara Church? “But he said, ‘No, lest perhaps while you gather up the weeds, you root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the harvest time I will tell the reapers, “First, gather up the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn."

In Christ,
Isaac Joseph. K.

rajanthomas said...

യാക്കോബായക്കാര്‍ എന്ന് അവകാശപെടുന്ന കൂട്ടര്‍ യാക്കോബ് ബുര്ധനയുടെ ഒരു ഗുണവും ഇല്ലാത്തവരാണ്!അവര്ക് രാജ്യവും ശക്തിയും മാത്രം മതി!അവരാണ്
യഥാര്‍ത്ഥ ക്രിസ്തിയാനി എന്ന് പറയുന്നല്ലാതെ ക്രിസ്തീയതം തൊട്ടു തീണ്ടാത്ത ഒരു വര്‍ഗം!സ്വത്തിനു അവകാശവും തര്‍ക്കവും ഉണ്ടാകി യഥാര്‍ഥ്യം എല്ലായിപ്പോഴും
മറച്ചു പിടിക്കുന്നവര്‍!മഞ്ഞിനക്കര കബരടങ്ങിയ എല്യാസ് മൂന്നാമന്‍ ബാവ സമാധാനം സ്ഥാപിക്കാന്‍ വേണ്ടി മലന്കരയില്‍വന്നു എന്നുപരയുന്നല്ലാതെ എന്തെങ്കിലും ചെയ്തുവോ?
തുര്‍കിയിലെ സുല്‍ത്താന്റെ തിരസ്കരണത്തിന് വിധേയനായ് മലന്കരയില്‍ വന്നു എന്നതാണ് യഥാര്‍ത്ഥ്യം!ഒന്നായിരുന്ന മലങ്കര സഭയെ വിഭജിച്ചു സ്വാര്‍ത്ഥ തല്പരിയത്തിനും
പണത്തിനും വേണ്ടി എന്തും ചെയ്യുന്ന ആട്ടിടയ ശ്രേഷ്ടന്മാര്‍! അവര്‍ പ: പത്രോസിന്റെ(ശ്ലീഹ) പിന്‍ഗാമികള്‍ എന്ന് പറയുന്നല്ലാതെ പത്രോസശ്ലീഹ എഴുതിയ/ കല്പിച്ച കാര്യങ്ങള്‍
ഒന്നും ചെയ്തിട്ടല്ല!൧ പത്രോസ് ൫:൧-൪ വായിക്കുക!

mohanmathew said...

After going through what Mr Isaac wrote, I felt sorry for him.

if you don't, read what he wrote
"But this dissident group (IOC), broke away from us on 1912. In 1958, they merged with us. Again they split away from us on 1975."

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha ...

mohanmathew said...

I am sure the Orthodox faithful will india will come together, and they will be free a Church, NOT under any foreign domination.

mohanmathew said...

Beware of 'Malankara samaadhana samithi'. Their objective is to division of the Chuch.

We all know that peace is not a prerequiste for division. Divsion wil bring only further divisions.

The only factor that keeps Jacobites united is their fight against Orthodox Church. Once they achieve division, there will be further divisions in the Jacobite camp

George said...

I am a Catholic guy from Kothamangalam comes under the great leadership of Mar George Punnakottil.We know this ramban and all others who are trying to enter in cheriyapally to create problems.At any point if Thomas bhava asks us for our support we will extend our help whole heartedly.Actually to my understanding Jacobites are poor as well as they are very innocent.With money muscle and media influence you kottayam based culpirits really looting and capturing their churches.Thomas bhava since he is standing for peace he is going to court only as a defendent.But I wondered why no faithfulls are not stongly condemning this?.Why cant they handle them physically, by law and by all other means.If this continues like the same from Jacobite end not only they will loose all their churches.Why they are not disappoined with the Kottayam catholicos entry in Mulanthuruthy church where they dont have any rights.Beware Jacobites .. if Almighty is not doing something definitely the other side will rule you as slaves

akash said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sam said...

Mr.Issac K Joseph
MOSC were not complete nestorians as you say or from the quote!Even in Persian Church there were two group of Christains one Nestorian Faith another anti -nestorian who were not accepting nestorian theology!We (MOSC) never claimed we were nestorian decendants as the way you commented it here!It is not faith which really divided MOSC! The Greediness of Antiochean Patriarchs in Malankara were real cause of all troubles/court cases and division in Malankara!
The Lady who is a Doctor or Docterate does not have any Common Sense at all!She is behaving like a extremist (religeous mad woman like Jihad) and she always forget the Jesus of Nazareth!She only know and read Bible of Kanyamparabil Kurien Chor Episcopa!She is mouthpiece of a priest of jacobite Church(currently in Australia) who sometimesback wrote that MOSC is not an oriental Orthodox Church quoting some baseless/false, and untrue statements forgetting the Scriptures or Bible!Jesus Christ never gave any special right or previlages to St.Peter alone!
Sometimes Back I myself wrote their Bishop of Majinikkara (mar Dionyasius)about the priesthood Christ converged through St.Peter alone or through his successors alone in Church! His response was similar to this lady(As Peter Is Rock and Church is built on Peter)I told him Jesus Christ being the true Rock and Church is the body Of Christ how can body of Church is built on St.Peter?I told him the faith that was confessed by Peter(Jesus is the Messiah,son of one true living God)is the rock of faith uopn which Jesus built his Church!he was insisting that Peter is The Rock! I told him in Old testament and in Psalms The Lord himself is called as 'Rock".This Jacobites heirarchy arepropagators /agitatators and they mislead/ misguide ordinary people!they are Just Like Pharisee or Sadduces of Jesus time! They don't know Jesus or they do not know the peace of Christ!They do not even follow the words of st.Peter through his epistles in Bible!
Jesus after resuurection when appeared to apostles on the third time at shore of Tiberias sea called Peter: "simeon, son of Johna"which means a person of inconsistancy(in Malayalam:- Sthirathayillathavan)There Jesus restored him after 3 times and commissioned him!The commissioning him (Peter) cannot be termed as a Special Responsibility or Status of Peter alone this was really a repetition of Mark 1:17(to be fishers of men)!All 12 apostle were ambassadors of Christ! Jesus knew the hearts of every people and his followers! He told them to be servant of each other just immediately after the passover meal! In short Jacobites are not following St.Peter or the words of Jesus!
We need people like very.rev Paul Remachen to educate our people in north parts of Kerala!

Fyodor said...

@ Sam Kodaiyatu, Mohan Mathew and all others...

You people will make decent Jacobites terrorists...

Show some maturity in your posts.. Their is absolutely no reason to come here and write stupid comments to all stupid news posted by MOTv..

mohanmathew said...

Mr George
we know well who is behind Thomas I. Your plan to keep Orthodox faith divided will not be fruitful. Before you rush to help Thomas bava & team, do something about your own church in Europe and America. Sathydeepam (catholic publication) reported a couple of months ago that 2 lakhs people in the USA leave Catholic Church and embrace American Churches. Do you know which is the fastest growing Chuch in USA? It is the Orthodox faith. According to official statement of of teh Catholic Church, 15% of people in western Europe go to Church. But actual figure is 10 per cent. That too old people. Do something about that.


Whether you support Jacobites or not, law will take its on due course. Thioams bava will ask help of all, but God will decide the fate.

mohanmathew said...

Fyodor
if Jacobites turn terrorists, law wil handle them. But as we know them, they are murderers, cowards who spill the blood of innocents.

Yakobaya Athibhadrasnam athinte naalukal ennikondirikkunnu... Eventually Peace will come Malankara by UNITY. Divisive forces led by cowrds will drown themselves in Arabian sea or they can take a boat to Antioch.

Thomas bava will catholics will come, Muslims will come... but when law of the land takes its hold, there wil be NONE to help. Majority of believers will switch their allegiance to the winner's side. WAIT and watch. Let us pray for peace

mohanmathew said...

After reading your Viswasasamrakhshakan, orthodox believers have not turned into terrorists. Terrorism is in your 'blood'.

The future children of jacobite broters willl not use that word. They will call themselves as ORTHODOX just like Antiochean people. Then The word JACOBITE will disappear...

sam said...

Dear Fydor
I did not write anything stupid as you claim! What I commented is out of my experience with Jacobites!Tere is no maturity this lady(dr)or the priest that I mentioned showed to anysupporters /followers of MOSC!The Jacobites in North side behave like mere worldly people,pouring hot water on a priestnand beat him thorughly make the priest limbs broken, ,who was going to celeberate Holy Qurbana,then While celeberating H.Qurbana,attending or paricipating while turning againt/opposite side when elevating the holy mysteries et ,etc,!For you may be this is called decency and Christian way!
Dear Fydor,why don't you tell VS and Malankara Vision of jacobite publications to stop stupid journalism in thr pretex of Christianity!

Centaur said...

I am a Catholic guy from Kothamangalam comes under the great leadership of Mar George Punnakottil

........
Punnakottil thirumeni ude karyam kettapol Thodupuzha hand chopping case aane orma varunathe. 'great' leadership thanne.

eldhose said...

E thomas paul nda karyam vallatha kashtam thanne ! Kanjikuzhi society yuda vaku ketu kothamangalam pally pootichu thannal(veroru bhashayil paranjal methran akanulla exam pass ayal methran akam) annu swapnam kandu nadanna thomas paul adutha varsham appande kallara noki nadakkunnathu kandu kothamangalathulkar paranju evan evida kondu vannu dead body ettu church pootikan nokiyathinda bhalam anu avan anubhavikunathu annu.swantham father nda dead body vare church pootikan vendi upayogikunna ningal ano malankarayil samadhanam venam annu parayunna christians ? 2. Arab methran mare kaliyakunna neeyoke Yeldho mar Baselious bava ya saint annum paranju nadakan nanam ella?(orthadox t v yuda site il baselious bava yuda photo il ninnum link kodukathathentha? Atho bava vannathu mahathaya kanjikuzhi anna place il ninnanu annano pavam orthadox kare paranju padipichirikunnathu? 3. Pinne mindatirikunnavande vayil kolittu elakan nokiyal pinne nokiyirunnennu varilla.pinne ningaluda yoka chavittum kuthum kondu njangaluda pithakanmar nadannu annu vicharichu eniyum athu nadakumennu vicharichu pallika pootikan varenda.athu thomas paul nodu chodichal manasilakum. ANTHYOKYA MALANKARA BHANDHAM NEENAL VAZHATTE.

Samji said...

Dear Eldhose
You Always write/talk nonsense!
Yeldho Mar Baselios and 2 poeple came in Malankara at the expenses of Malankara Church by then! It is not your Holy Patriarch in antioch who paid for their Travelling expenses to Malankara!
Yeldho Bava used East syriac and not w.Syriac in Malankara!He used two title at the same time Maphrian/catholicose!

Samji said...

Dear Eldhose
Our Catholicate Center in Devalokam,Kottayam is not at Kanjikuzhi!Devalokam has got seperate Post office!You people cannot Call him such names it(your behavior) shows your arrogance and stupidity!MOSC is not registered under societies act like jacobite church!It is you people(behaviou and conduct) prompted or incited MOSC people to call your Holy fathers As Arab!

Samji said...

@ എല്‍ദോസ്
നിങ്ങളെ പോലുള്ള വ്യക്തികള്‍ക് ഞങ്ങളെ(MOSC )ആക്ഷേപികാന്‍ വേണ്ടിയുള്ളതല്ല ഈ ബ്ലോഗ്‌! നിങ്ങളുടെ
ബ്ലോഗുകളില്‍ അല്ലെങ്കില്‍ forum ല് ഞങ്ങള്‍ എഴുതുവാനോ പറയുവാനോ നിങ്ങളുടെ Brigadiars സമ്മതിക്കുകയില്ലാലോ!
ക്രിയാത്മക ആയി നിങ്ങള്‍ എഴുതാറുമില്ല! ദയവായി ഞങ്ങളുടെ ബ്ലോഗില്‍ വന്നു ഞങ്ങളെ ആക്സേപിക്കരുത്!

Innocent said...

Om Antiochyayeha Namaha. Om Thomas Pradhamaneha Namaha. Om Sakka Pradhamaneha Namaha

mohanmathew said...

Thodupuzha case-ne patti oru orma

I was watching TV on the day this Prof Joseph was dismissed by the college management. I think it was IndianVision. There was a live telephone interview with a senior priest of the Catholic diocese which owned the college.

The presenter asked the priest' "Father, why don't you people forgive Prof Joseph like CHRIST did to many sinners?"

"Prof Joseph has never expressed regret over this. So we cannot forgive him"' explained father.
Then suddenly I felt a shock in my body when I heard father telling, "Even Christ had fogiven only people who asked Him forgiveness."

I could only pray with Christ "Pithaave ivar cheyyunnathu enthennu ivar ariyaaykayaal ivarodu kshamikkename"

mohanmathew said...

@Eldose
Metran akkan promise kodukkunnathum ishtamullavarkkum kodiya kolapaathakarkkum azhimathikkarkkum chavelier, Commander, bar itho... thudangi perukal nalkunathum evideyennu eldosinu njan pranju tharenda avasyam aillalo.

Parishuddha Bav Thirumeni vichaaricchal polum orale Malankara Orhtodox Sabhayil Metran akkan pattilla, mone eldose

mohanmathew said...

@Eldose
Metran akkan promise kodukkunnathum ishtamullavarkkum kodiya kolapaathakarkkum azhimathikkarkkum chavelier, Commander, bar itho... thudangi perukal nalkunathum evideyennu eldosinu njan pranju tharenda avasyam aillalo.

Parishuddha Bav Thirumeni vichaaricchal polum orale Malankara Orhtodox Sabhayil Metran akkan pattilla, mone eldose

eldhose said...

DEAR SAMJI.
THANKAL 2 KARYANGAL ANU PARANJATHU.

1)NINGALKU KOTHAMANGALAM BAVA YA KURICHU ONNUM ARIYILLA ....1665 IL LANU BAVA CATHOLICA YAYI VAZHIKAPPEDUNNATHU.BAVA ARUDA NIRDESHA PRAKARAM ANU MALANKARA YIL VANNATHU ANNATHINU THELIVUKAL MUVZHATUPUZHA KU ADUTHULLA RAKKAD NERCHAPALLY IL CHENNU ANVESHICHAL AVIDA NINNUM ATHINULLA ANSWER KIYYUM.WITH PROOF.
2) ENI KANJIKUZHI SOCIETY YUDA KARYAM,MALNKARA SABHA YUDA KALANAYI AVATHARICHA VATTASERRY YUDA VAKKU KETU NEDANDATHELLAM NEDIYATHINU SHESHAM SWANTHAM SABHA YAYUM PATRIARCH NAYUM VITTU POYAVARUKU CHERUNNA NAME THANNEYANU ATTHU.(PINNE NJANGALE PUTHENCRUZ SOCIETY ANNU VALICHU KALIYAKKUNATHINU ORU NANAVUM ELLALO? PINNENTHA ? GIVE RESPECT AND THAKE RESPECT ANNANALLO....
3)PINNE ORU KARYAM SWANTHAM VIYRPU KONDU KETTIPOKKIYA PALLIKAL EDAVAKAKARUDETHANENNU JACOBITE CHURCH PARANJATHU POLE ANNU NINGALUDA NETHAKANMARKU PARAYAN SADHIKUNNO ANNU KANJIKUZHI SOCIETY YUDA ANTHYAM ANU.VERORU BHASHAYIL PARANJAL ALLAM KAYADAKI VACHU EDAVAKA KARKU ORU AVAKASHAVUM NALKATHE NINGALE PATTIKUNNA NINGALUDA CHURCH LEADERS NA ANNU NINGAL MANASILAKKUNO ANNU NINGAL RAKSHAPEDUM.BEST WISHES.

rajanthomas said...

Dear All
Below see what Followers of Yakkob Burdhana in Malankara saying about co-operation and peace between two factions of Same Orthodox faith

"What Dr. Leena's observations are right in all perspective. I would like to adda little bit with it.

Even the devil also believe in God Almighty, but he (the devil) waited to act ina proper time, when our Lord Jesus Christ came out of HIS 40 days lent. He
(devil) was aware that the Son of Man can turn stone into bread, and only askedto do so. Since devil also believe in God, how can WE and devil share our faith.
Then "Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the
Lord your God, and serve him only." (St. Mathew,4:10).

This is what we should also tell these people "Away from us, and we willfollow what our Forefathers taught us"....................

This so called people of Jacobite Church in Malankara they actually do not know anything about Church of Christ/ Christian Church,Jesus Christ.His Peace and his Kingdom
They blindly follow some of their leaders or heirarchy without realisng the truth or forgetting the scriptures and teachings of Christ!
Let me add this to them, although St.Peter confessed that Jesus is the Messiah or Christ of true Living God(mathew16:16) at the same day after that he talked against the God's Will! read Mathew 16:23Jesus turned and said to Peter"Get behind me,Satan,you are an offense to me,for you are not MINDFUL of the things of God,but the things of men"!
Those people who are against peace in church are truly SATAN as they are mindful of things of this world or men.Moreover Read,Mathew 5:9"Blessed are the Peacemakers,for the shall be called sons of God!" are these Jacobites who are against peace can be called Sons of God?
For the kingdom of God is righteousness,peace and Joy in Holy Spirit(Roman 14:17) are those people are real Christians?Do Holy spirit guide them?
read again Mathew 18:22 about Forgiveness! Are these Jacobites who preach only hostility between two factions of Church,thanforgiveness/reconciliations are true Christians!
Now they talk about their forefathers,who are those forefathers taught them to be preaching hatred and contempt in the body of Christ? Those who sais Iam writing stupidity also think twice!

mohanmathew said...

How many of you people actually listened the speech of Thomas Paul Rambachan...?

Really great speech.

Ravi George said...

if Thomas Paul Ramban wanted to become a bishop, he could have easily got it in the Jacobite camp. Even now if he switches side, there are people who woudl make him a Bishop.

In the Malankara Orthodox Church there is no short cut to becoem a bishop. Rmbachan chose the tough, and uncertain path. He is a symbol of a CHRISTIAN who wishes to suffer and take pain as Christ commanded. MAY GOD BLESS RAMBACHEN

Samji said...

Dear Eldhose
one thing I can tell you that You Don't have common sense at all!You never tried to understand the truth or real facts!you just wrote something which had been told by your Blind heirarchy!I dont want go to Rakkad Church as you produce a copy of the Kalpana from your Supreme authority Partiarch for your claims to be true in this blog!
can you give me proper evidence that Jesus Appointed anybody as Patriarch who is going to be the Sole and supreme head of his earthly church?
Wthat Abdulla Bava did in Malankara you people(jacobites) cover it! But in the eyes of Lord they are not hidden!All the problem in Malankara were caused by Greediness of patriarch Abdulla Bava! Your forefathers or people like late C.J Kurien or his brothers hired Killer Abdul Kalam for asssinating Vattaseeril thirumeni! Don't forget that!Vattasseril thirumeni is not the cause of split in Malankara!again Mar Julius,the representative of Antioch patriarch was termed as a Holy False witness by court in Kerala!
You don't deserve any respect as you always behave like an idle person or a person who propagates
untrue stories!

Samji said...

@eldhose
I did not ask you any deatails of Yeldho Mar Baselios!What you are talking here in this blog is totally unnecceassary and unwanted things or issues!first you become a Christian then write something which is constructive!You Always behave like a MarketGunda/rowdy, who does not possess any qualities of ordinary man!As A christian you cannnot write or comment something against scriptures or un biblical!
You Never try to build a Church out of your owm sweat then how can you critisize other people? MOSC did not uses any force or unlawful method to seize your churches!MOSC constituition and Malankara Sabha are recognised by Supreme court of India! But your society and your Jacobite Church has nothing to do with Malankara Church! Instead of abusing MOSC first try to understand the "truth"which pilate did not understand!

Ebenezar said...

" ആത്മീക കാര്യങ്ങള്‍ഒഴിച്ചു ബാകിയെല്ലാം കാര്യങ്ങല്കും ഇടവക പള്ളികള്‍സ്വതന്ത്രമാണ്" യാക്കോബായ ഭരണഘടന!ആത്മീയ കാരിയങ്ങല്‍കാണല്ലോ പള്ളിയും
പട്ടക്കാരനും! ആത്മ്മേയ കാര്യങ്ങള്‍ അല്ലാതെ മറ്റു കാര്യങ്ങള്‍ എന്തെല്ലാമാണ്? വാടക ഗുണ്ടകളെയും വാടക കൊലയാളികളെയും രഹസ്യമായി പാര്പിക്കനയിരിക്കും
ഈ സ്വതന്ത്രമെന്ന് പറഞ്ഞിരിക്കിന്നുതു! അതെല്ലങ്കില്‍ ഇന്ത്യയിലുള്ള യാക്കോബായ പള്ളികളെല്ലാം ആര്‍ക്കാകുന്നു എന്ത് സ്വാതന്ത്ര്യം ആണ് ഉള്ളത്
എന്ന് വ്യക്തമാക്കിയിട്ടില്ല! മൂക്കില്ലാത്തവന്‍ മുരിമ്മൂക്കന്റെ കാര്യം പറയുന്നത് പോലെ ഇരിക്കുന്നു!സംഭവാമി യുഗേ യുഗേ!

Ebenezar said...

Dear All
please go through another comment of jacobite fellow reagarding peace and unity in malankara:-
Another point you have raised is: *"I have to remind you that it's not only the
MOSC leadership who use the "sugar coated words like PEACE and UNITY ".HH
Ignatius Elias III, HH Ignatius Jacob III and HH Ignatius Zakka I Iwas had all
worked for peace and unity in the Malankara Church".*

I feel what you have said is partly right. Please note that it wasn't only a lip
service or a sugar coated one, but the all three Holy Fathers acted upon their
words, but you will agree that all their actions were not met with its intended
vision. It is a fact the broken heart of HH Ignatius Elias III could not
withstand the rudeness of the then MOSC leaders, and HH sacrificed His life for
what he stood. But in case of HH Ignatius Jacob III, HH could not foresee the
intention of the then MOSC while calling a truce between two warring factions.
The MOSC leadership bowed their head by wearing the skin of a lamb, and showed
their true colours of a wolf within a decade's time. And HH Ignatius Zakka I
Iwas hoping for peace and unity in Malankara Church did not installed the
Catholicate / Maprianate for almost 5 years keeping it vacant after the demise
of HB Paulose II in 2001. HH realised later that the MOSC are not the people
whom HH can wait unendingly and acted like true Sheperd and installed HB Thomas
I as Catholicose for India.


Dear All
We all know how H.B.Thomas got his mafrian title and position form Antioch. MOSC did not require a shephard to oversee its functions all over the world from Syria or Antioch!MOSC autonomus and autocephalas church and a member of oriental orthodox Churches! we are not part of Syrian Church of Damascus or antioch!
We know the reasons why patriarch Elias III came in Malankara as he was not able to stay in Mardeen as Turkish rulers did want him!
Yakkoob III was another Patriarch who was wearing lambs skin and showing/behaving like an wolf.his infamous bull is an example for that! Yakkob III made heretic teaching about St.Thomas,the patron of India!Even the peace accord of 1958 was subject to 1934 constituition of MOSC and as per S/C verdict!By then If MOSC moved with the execution of verdict ,this jacbites wouldn't get anything that they possess now!
If Zaka I was a peace loving person he could have got in touch with MOSC catholicate for peace and reconciliation.In fact they all waited for the Supreme court verdict and then Zaka I sent bulls to his flock(jacobites) to follow the S/C verdict and reconcile with MOSC.However Jacobite heirarchy hid the bulls from jacobite faithfuls and nobody was aware of the two bulls of H.H.Zaka until after eiht years later!So who were the real culprits/crooked mentality stood against in this Saga of Malankara Church peace and unity! Beware of this people who always try to hide the real issues or facts!

Ravi George said...

Idayan jail-il pokumo ennathaanu ippol oru campil natakkunna mukhya charcha.

Ebenezar said...

Dear Eldhose
Actually you do not know anything about Malankara Church or about Christ himself! The Way you write/comment is so absurd and foolishness! Stop it immediately,we have been watching this for a long time in our blogs!the best you can do is go to streets or market corners around your home and make your cadish comments over there!

vincent said...

Dear All
a jacobite fellow called Varghese quoted that H.H. Elias III,H.H. Jacob III and Present H.H.Zaka has tried to worl for peace in Malankara!However All those Syrian Prelates only/really worked for piece malankara church!They all tried to cause Split and division in malankara for own interests! Then they are blaming MOSC for their own mistakes and wrong deeds!These people did not know Jesus although they claim to be Christian Shephards!There is no Christ in their earthly kingdom and or life they did not preach no peace at all here in Malankara!L/LElias III supported Christian persecution or allowed for Christian Conversion into Islam!
Yakkoob III really caused Split in Malankara by his actions and heretic teachings! H.H.Zaka follwed his predessors in handling Malankara Church affairs!
Dear Jacobite fellow you cannot fool God any more!

vincent said...

Dear George
As Catholic you may express your ideas or comments in Jacobite forum or in any Catholic forums or Mgazines!We do not want unncessary arguments with you!Thomas I Mafrian is defendant due to his own actions in many cases!Malankara Orthodox Church did not act against any court rules or used violence or unlawful methods to seize any churches belong to Jacobites!Jacobites are poor and innocentin which way? as the way their hirearchy using mafia and Hired Killers in Churches for killing innocent people!You May watch/ go through varius media, recent developements in T.M. Varghese murder case(malankara Varghese)at Perumbavoor!Also remember yourL/L Arch Bishop Ivanios joined catholic Church with Properties of Malankara Church not any properties belonging to his own father or family. even his education everything what got at MOSC and he used everything from MoSC( he cheated/betrayed MOSC) to get his title and position in catholic church! you people are the followers of that kind of betrayer!So please refrain from this blog!

mohanmathew said...

Jacobite plans to build an independent church during the 5-year the LDF rule went awry. God provided us strength to overcome it.

Now don't expect the struggle to be over soon. They are opportunists who change colours. we should continue to mainttain the same momenum and pray for unity of the Church. Don't losen our grip, don't withdraw from seeking legal procedures. Above all seek the wisdom of God. The enemies of Unity will soon vanish

Geogy Abraham said...

Actually there are no crisis faced by IOC people in northern Kerala, rather they make crisis so that Church could be closed.

It is clear fact that that IOC leader are in search of people (i.e. who can side IOC) in Church’s in northern part of Kerala, so that they can create an issue and further file a case and finally close the church.
Such steps are already taken in Angamaly and Kandanad dioceses.

Kandanad diocese is already facing a problem created by Dr. Thomas Mor Athanasius, who betrayed the SOC church; similar is the case of Thrissur diocese.

Therefore, crisis for the churches in northern Kerala (Kandanad, Angamaly, Thrissur) are IOC supporters. Why don’t they separate and build another church or else be silent members. There are many believers of SOC in IOC areas, but they never create a problem to close down the church. They always took a step of building a separate church of their own.

Lastly, the only peace in church is “better split”. Unity will again end up in fights. Malankara Christians (SOC & IOC) already seen the church functioning as “one” during the period 1958-1972; but later divided.

Reni said...

@Geogy Abraham
Jacobite camp with its recently formed constitution (ONLY 9 years old) ) cannot be termed as the real authority of the Church. The presence of even a single member of the Church is enough to sustain the claim of the Orthodox Church. We also know that a vast majority of people go with the local church adminstration fearing lose of previlges in the Church. Once the administration of the Church is legally wrestled and brought back under the legally valid 1934 constitution (as per the ruling of the Supreme Court) these people will naturally follow the Orthodox Church.

More over the leader of the rebel faction is a tainted person accused in a murder case. Imagine the shame it caused to the average member of his faction. This could be healed only by dissolving the rebel faction. I think HH Patriarch regrets his action of anoinitng this tainted person. My Jacobite friends too say that their group has lost face. We can understand their frustration and can only sympathise with them. 'Uppu Thinnavan vellam kudikkum'

CBI is awatring to question the rebel leader as soon he returns after his visit abroad. is another Kanchi in teh making

mohanmathew said...

In fact ALL the churhes, even those occupied by Jacobiet rebel athibradraasanam mebers, constructed before 2002 'constition' of the jacobite faction belongs to the Malkara ORTHOX CHURCH.

Ravi George said...

The unity that happened twice before, were hurried. This time, nobody is in a hurry and everythig is being debated over sites like this. Now the Jacobite with its weak morale is eventually heading for a diasater unless they turn to God and repent. Their dream of becoming independent during the LDF rule failed miserabaly and they have become even weaker.

There are no IOC areas and Jacobite athibdrasanam areas. Supreme Court the apex court of India ruled that there is one and only one church. So those who want to break away are free to go out of this church.

Koodathe rebel Idayan jail pokumenna nilayil anennu kelkkunnu. Apolekkum aa Idayente koode arum kaanilla.

Ebenezar said...

Dear Georgy Abraham
The unity in Malankara church(1958-73) was for jacobites(supporters of Antioch) to gain their lost power due to supreme court verdict in 1958!It was not MOSC who cause the division in1973 as it was mainly due to infamous Bull issued by L/L Yakkoob III due to his dictatorship and Greediness.L/L Yakoob III wanted all overseas MOSC dioces in his own control and direct rule!L/L catholicose Augen Bava and synod did not agree to that! He made/consecrated ribel catholicose in Malankara and caused the church to split!What canon did he (l/l yakkoob III)follow in ex-communicating the synod and catholicose?In 1958 the peace and unity was accorded on the basis of 1934 constitution of MOSC!He also made herectic teachings about St.Thomas!Jesus Christ never made/appointed any apostle as Head or leader of his Disciples!(read luke 22:24-30)>the priesthood of Jesus Christ is not converged through st.Peter or his successors alone in his church!you people(jacobites) are anti-orthodox and anti-biblical self proclaiming right people,who behave like Scribes,Pharisee and Sadducee of Jesus' time!
Those who advocate split in church donot understand the "church" in the right/real sense they just like people who are against Holy Spirit as well as AntiChrist!

Dennis said...

when did this ramban become the vicar of marthommenn cheriya palli.....the only thing is that if orthodox faction under kottayam catholicose wants to enter any churches in ernakulam district or angamaly diocese then seek permission from the church general body and if they permit you can enter.....if you dont have majority in any of the church's general council then forget about it...there is not problem in any of the churches in so called northern part....what ever problems exist are created by orthodox faction under the influence of wealth and power....this has to be ended.....dont try to be like a fox....

Geogy Abraham said...

Here in Malankara no body follows so called 1934 church constitution. IOC follows their own amended version of 1934 church constitution. In 1934 church constitution it says that Patriarch is head of the Church. This point itself the IOC not recognizing.
So, better not argue in the that.

Better way for the both church to grow is to split and recognize each other.

Ebenezar said...

Dear Georgy Abraham
You Never read the whole constituition of1934! Read the Whole constituition then Comment! by reading a clause you cannot argue anything!The Supreme court of India has upheld the same constituition of 1934!
It is not MOSC who are making arguements It is your faction who make baseless arguements and make accusations! Even Bible you people misquote and teach/mislead in many respects for self Existence and self Glory!
can you quote from Bible any sentence that Jesus appointed St.Peter as head of Church?or head of apostles!Split is caused by your people for self motives!
What happened to your church all along from early centuary to 2002 to make a constituition?

vincent said...

@georgy Abraham
You First learn Bible and early church history before making baseless arguements and comments!can you give any evidence from bible that Jesus appointed anybody as Patriarch or Pope etc as head of his Church? Do you Know when this title come or how it was originated in church? Do you know that Antioch is not father church or mother church as the way you are claiming!It was due to combined gospel work of St.Paul and St.Barnabas in Antioch the followers of Christ were known as Christians!All early Church decisions were taken at Jerusalem and Jerusalem Church Bishop was James the cousin Brother of Jesus!
Christianity did not originate in antiocH

Geogy Abraham said...

Here, we are not talking about Bible.
If we are talking about Bible we shouldn’t have discussed these issue in blogs etc. All must follow the words of Christ then.
We all human being are sinners. We still continue to do sins.
Therefore, I am not talking about bible here.

Again, I reiterate that so called 1934 church constitution is not even followed by IOC church. IOC church follows amended form of 1934 church constitution. I do not want to go in more details in this.
It is a unknown fact that Church leader of SOC church couldn’t provide a church constitution while it was asked by court. It was mistake of then SOC church leaders (some leaders, not naming) who objected in providing so. So, it was always from the mistakes and weakness of SOC church, the IOC church still defending their stand in current SOC churches.

Only request with IOC leaders is to take example of Cheegari Church in Malabar, where parishioners divided church properties in accordance to majority & minority. This should be an example to all closed down churches. This is the message I want to pass to all.

rajanthomas said...

Dear Georgy Abraham
You don't want bible when dicussing Church Matters!This means you really do not understand what is Church!secondly we(MOSC)are not dicussing property sharing matters here in this Blog!What ever you are trying to reiterate here is baselss and un realestic matters!If there was an ammendmend you should have clearly stated what was that amendmend!You don't know anything about amemdment!You Only try say/argue some of your peoples/self created stories!or utter nonsenses! there is no weakness as alleged by yourselves in SoC or Jacobites people!What you are really trying here is to hide yourselves/cover up from the realities!Also try to understand what is meant by Church/ecclessia in the real sense!

vincent said...

Dear Georgy Abraham
I would request you to tell us What was amended,when and where?Don't create imaginary stories!You Jacobites always talk baselss matters or hide the truth!That is in your blood!
whatever your heirarchy/brigadiers and their stories or your yellowjournals/publications say is not necessirly the truth!Since you are not contributing here anything constructive it is better that you stop your nonsenses in this bog immediately!

vincent said...

Dear Georgy Abraham
Can you tell us What Jacobite Church in Malankara had shown as good example as a Christian Church so far in Malankara?I did not talk about Bible here! What I told you is that When dicuss church related matters we should base it on right way,also follow the teachings of Christ or Scriptures!If you don't feel it in right sense or you feel it is unneccessary that means you are not even a Christian at all!

Ravi George said...

@GA
No amount of arguement can convice people in your camp, you'll learn only when God send you His sword from heaven..You're now limited only only to an ARCHDIOCESE. In history will record a Catholose sent to jail for MURDER. Who will know a next Catholicose will be anointd for your archdiocese? You are now in shambles. I pity you...Even HH Patriarch regrets some matters.. Wait & watch things unfolding before your eyes... Finally you will praise God when you find peace.

Geogy Abraham said...

Atleast I know the problems faced by my home parish (in Kochi diocese) and near by church in Angamaly & Kadanad dioceses.

For you probably it won’t be a constructive as I am not praising IOC church. Off course you have a right to criticize. Moreover, it is in the blood of IOC church to fight & file a case against all SOC. It is hidden agenda that that IOC church wants to capture the entire CROSS in Malankara, and this was told by IOC friend. Here, I just talked about the facts realized in some of the churches in Angamally & Kadanad dioceses.

Only request is stop filing/withdraw cases against the SOC church. Come forward for a peaceful talk. Sit together in a round table at least agree on terms where both church has no issues, so that closed down churches could be open and holy mass could be conducted.
For example: Dr. Thoams Mor Athanious thirumeni betrayed the SOC church and joined IOC church (whatever the personal reasons), which realized in the church fights and issues in Kadanad region. Similar is the case in Thrissur diocese, controlled by Milithious thirumeni. Thrikunath seminary church still closed. There many to be mentioned.

I am quite sure from your language you may be from Kottayam/Pathanamthitta/Niranam dioceses. I wrote in the blog because it was related to the crisis in the northern region of Kerala; and wanted to share the reality of the churches in this region to the readers. Probably it might hurt you.

Lastly to end up all church crisis is to split as two church; as it is it is functioning as two different churches.

vincent said...

Dear GA
you are just making more allegations! You never tried to understand the real situation or real facts!IOC/MOSC are not making any attempt to seize or capture ALL CROSSES IN MALANKARA as alleged by yourselves or your blind heirarchy!Whatever the cases or disputes are there from 1970's! can you single out ant new cases or disputes from 2002?Mar Athanasius (moovattupuzha)or Mar Milithios of Tichur did not betray your Church heirarchy asclaimed by yourselves!They followed the S/C verdict of 1995and 2 bulls of H.H.Zaka I over peace and reconciliation following the verdict of S/C !Your H.B.Thomas did not make it public two Bulls of H.H.Zaka of 1995/1996 period Why?
In 1995 S/C of India called for a peace arbitration and your heirarchy refused to that!now you want IOC/MOSC to make peace with your Church Heirarchy for sharing the disputed properties for what?
(Read Mathe 5:40,44 and Romans 12:17-21 if you are so sincere and true)Jacobites challenged MOSC constituitionof 1934 and Head of MOSC validity in court for what?
Also I would like you to read the proposals of Samadhana samithi in this respect! without reading and understanding the propsals or resolutions of varius peace loving forums of Malankara ,you are merely making allegations without any basis or any reality!

Ebenezar said...

Att:GA
There is no need of Mass(h.Qurbana)to be conducted when conflict and disputes/quarell/fights are there!By opening Closed Churches,people are not going to worship the True God in Truth and Spirit!If you look at the history of Old Israel,many times they were not able to Worship the Lord in Jerusalem temple! You should find out the reason why/how or what was it happened like that!
When people are forgetting God,and do ungodly things, God will not listen to them!First repent and turn to God!God's temple are not hiding places for murderers or criminals!

Thomas said...

Jacobite is just an Arch Diocese of the Antioch Church. Though they are an intergral part and are in majority in the Antioch, the right to lead the church is constituionaly vested upron the minority ARAB christians. (It is not abnmormal thing in Arab countries) So the Arab Christians treat Indians as low class foreigners. IT WRITTEN DOWN IN THEIR CONSTITUTION. (In no other Church you will find this constitutionlay upheld discrimination.)

YET 24 hours these people shout Antichea, Antiochea , Antochea....Then they want us to follow their suit and become underdogs like them. Is that the reason why St Thomas brought Chrisitanity here?

First Antioch remove the clause that ONLY ARAB CHRISTIAN SHOULD BECOME THE PATRARCH. The we can think of treating them as equal to us

Thomas said...

Racist Arab Christians who do NOT treat Indian Jacobites on par with them are themselves treated second class by their fellow Arab Muslims. What a shame!

Ravi George said...

@Geogy Abraham
There is NO HIDDEN AGENDA as you believe. . We do everything openly and after sufficient discussions unlike in your organisation where one man can decide to eat or kill. That is why your leader is in a big trap. CBI is on his trail for ploting murder. Aren't you ashamed to be led by such a perosn?

Ravi George said...

Geogy Abraham
You Jacobites have a wrong notion that Patriarch is the head of the Malankara Church. The 1934 constitution says Patriarch is teh head of the Syrian Orthodox Church. Malankara Orthodox Church's head is Catholicose. And we'll recogonse him only if he is ordained with our approval. You can continue to should Atochea, Antochea... NOE Patriarch has taken away your American, Gulf, Europe etc. Paavam HB Thomas ellam poyi..

Ravi George said...

'PAANDAN NAYUDE PALLINU SHAOURYAM PANDE POLE PHALIKKUNNILLA' eenu kunchan Nambiar pandu parihasicchu. Athinu ippol nall ardhamundu.

Daily pathratthil prasthaavana natatthiyirunna oraale ippol kanaane illa... EVIDE POYI? Ingneyum undo oru CBI pedi?

akash said...

ningalkku enna anthokya simhasanavum pathriarcheesum vendathe ayathu. pourohithyam namukku labhichathu avide ninnalle. nam upayogikkunna namaskara ,koodasha kramangal,kappa,enniva labhichathu avide ninnale.
malankara sabha pope nte kezhil ara noottandu ayirunnappol athil ninnu rakshichathu abdul jaleel bava alle. adhehathe pathriarcheese bava ayachathalle. angane innu malankara sabha vaarnnappol paraynu njangalku pahiarchese venda anthiochya simhasanam venda. nanni kedu. alle

akash said...

malankara sabha andokya simhasanathinu keezhe anu. a viswasam anu nam ippozhum tudarunnathu. pourohithya pinthudarcha labhichathu avide ninnalle. nammude ella koodashakalum avidennu pakarnnu kittiyathalle. innu state govt. parayuvanu njangal central govt nte keezhil alla ennu parayunnathil artham undo. simhasanathe thalli parayunnavar avidathe koodasha kramangalum, prarthana kramangalum upekshikkanam

Ebenezar said...

DEAR Akash
Please stop your nonsense here!The Priesthood of Jesus Christ were given to all Apostles!St.Peter is not the centre of Christ's Priesthood!You are totally ignorant/illiterate about What Jesus Christ told his diciples!Thr First Thaksa of Holy Qurbana was compiled and written by st. James the cousin brother of Jesus!
Jesus Christ promised his apostles throne each of them for judging 12 tribes of Israel!Jesus Christ did not give a Seperate throne for St.Peter alone!Jesus Christ did not appoint St.Peter as head of apostles! "Kannu undayal pora kananam"Read bible thorughly!
The Central govt of Jesus Christ is not on earth or Jesus Christ did not appoint St.Peter as prime mininster of his country or kingdom!

akash said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
vincent said...

Dear Akash
Befrore Malankara started relation with Antioch we had Liturgy and sacrements here in East Syriac!You May Go through Mavelikkara Padiyola,then you will understand how liturgy and sacrements were here in Malankara!Malankara Church never depend on Antioch prior to 1685 for any conscration of Bishops here!We had Priests here and the head of the Priests were known as "JAATHIKKU KARTHAVYAN" OR ARCHDIKON and they were not wearing any Antiochean Robs or dresses!Forget about your unneceesary,illogical claims of Priest hood and sacrementsin Malankara!Also learn when Antioch or Churches in Roman Empire started using the Title Patriarch or Bishops!
Also learn from bible How and Who ordained St.Paul(saul)!The same St.Paul rebuked St.Peter in Antioch publically or blamed Peter by face by face(Galatians2:11).Peter himself called as a Co-elder among other elders of early church(read 1 epistle chap,5)
you guys blindly follow your blind heirarchy!

Ebenezar said...

Dear Akash
"Nee(bar yona Simeon) Pathrose
akunnu" ennanu karthavu paranjathu!Viswasamakunna paramel karthavu Sabhaye Staapichu!allathee pathrose enna vyakthiyude melalla!Kathavvu sabhaye paniyum ennanu paranjathu!Read Ephesian 2:20 avide vyakthamayi paranjittunde sabahaye engane,evide panithu ennu!Vedavipareetham anu ningal parayunnathu!

akash said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Samji said...

Dear Akash
First of all you should not wear the current dresswhich you wear like Pant(trousers)and Shirt etc as this belonged to the european/british people! All jacobites sould know that Liturgy did not originate in Antioch alone!Then about Throne ,Can you tell/quote any verse from Bible that Peter made Throne in Antioch or Jesus told him (Peter)to make Throne in Antioch?These are all unorthodox and heretic teachings of Jacobite Church in Malankara!
Jesus Never called Simeon Peter as Rock! What Jesus told was that Simeon the Son Of Johna,you will be called as Peter which means Cepha something likeStone( something hard as stone used for building house or mansions) not Rock!The real rock is Jesus Christ!What Peter Confessed is the true Faith !Jesus built his church on Cofession of Faith and not onSimeon Peter the Disciple!Not in any Bible it was said that Peter was Rock except bible translated by Kanyamparabil Chor Episcopa!
You guys never know who is Jesus in the real sense or what is The Church/Ecclesia in the true sense!
First learn the elementary thing about Church then make sensible comments!Jacobite Church in Malankara exists on False teachings or heretic teachings!

Samji said...

Dear All(I)
The Primacy of St. Peter as "head of Apostles" had always been taught by Syrian(Antioch) orthodox/Malankara Jacobites in their church; which is Contrary to Jesus Christ's teachings!
This "Primacy“ is Man made by twisting the meanings of Verses In Scripture, so as to suite one's need and an answer to Man's greed to exert authority over his fellow being! Luke 9:46-48, 22:24-26, and mark 9:33-37. if we read and learn carefully we can understand what as Jesus Christ taught his disciples! Mathew 16:19 is really mean like this "Peter your faith is like rock, and on this like faith I will build my Church"! One needs a faith as hard as rock in order to establish Christ's church!(deep Faith In Christ as son of Eternal Living One True GOD)Keys of Kingdom of Heaven:-Peter was given the authority to admit entrance to Kingdom Of Heaven through Preaching the GOSPEL ,But The same was Subsequently given /granted all apostles who were called to proclaim the gospel(refer John 20:21-23 and Mathew 20:18-20 St.Peter was not given any authority alone as per Mathew16:13-20)
Jesus knew all his apostles(except Iscariot) had that faith! That is the unique reason Why Jesus Christ told his disciples "go and preach the gospel to all nations and make disciples of them" Which implies that Jesus Christ 'Authenticated' all his disciples to establish his church to glorify God In all nations! (mathew28:19-20) Jesus Christ did not make Simon Peter an overseer/head over the churches established by other disciples !Peter in Greek language is Petros (Stone) which is related to PETRA(rock) but not rock itself !Jesus statement (response) did not mean that Peter would have greater authority than other apostles of Christ! Simon Peter, James and John were known as pillars of early church(Gal 2:9)
St. John 21:15,16,17,this not an authority Jesus gave to Simon Peter, but, directive, on his 3rd appearance on the shore, at sea of Tiberius (Galilee) ,is being used By The beloved Disciple John to whom Jesus entrusted mother Mary, in his epistle 1 John 2:12,2:13,2:14. All apostles are equal and they have same authority and position! Mother Mary and All brothers(cousin) were Jesus prayed together with Disciples after Acension of Jesus into heaven prior to Pentacost when holy Spirit appeared in tounges of fire in disciples!(acts 1:14)


St John in gospel also mention about Simon Peter shall be called as Cephas (St. John 1:43) which is translated as a Stone! The Chief corner stone is being Christ and apostles/prophets being stones of foundations the Church(of God) is built(Ephesians 2:20). More over The “Rock” represents Christ in Bible!In The Old Testament Rock was represented by The Lord /Jehova!
The Psalmist often addresses the Lord/ Yehova as “my Rock”! St. Peter is not another rock like Christ! The rock that gave water to Israel in desert was Jesus Christ(Corinth 10:4)
Peter was given the authority to admit entrance into Kingdom of Heaven through preaching gospel and baptizing everybody (who believes in Christ) ! This authority was subsequently granted to all who are proclaiming gospel in early church! (cont'd)

Samji said...

Dear All (II)
Peter was given the authority to admit entrance into Kingdom of Heaven through preaching gospel and baptizing everybody (who believes in Christ) ! This authority was subsequently granted to all who are proclaiming gospel in early church! St. Peter first preached among Jews and then to gentile. However St. Paul was given the work among gentiles ,while Peter ,James and John among old Israel/jews(Gal,2:9).Although St.Peter appears to be the spokesman of early Church ,he was sent by apostles to Samaria(acts8:1-14)and Peter has to give an account of his actions to Jerusalem Church!(acts11:-18).Peter was represented only one voice at Jerusalem council (acts15:7-21)James (the brother of Jesus) has the decisive final word! St.James was the first Bishop of Jerusalem the mother Church! Jesus appeared to many disciples(more than500) and especially to James after his resurrection (1 Corin. 15:7) . Again St.Paul (saul)and Barnabas were ordained in Antioch by certain teachers and prophets called Simon Niger,Lucius of Cyerene and Manaen(raised with Herod Antipas; Acts 13:1-3).Saul and Barnabas who came from Jerusalem ,preached, taught the Antiochean Christians among other things-true worship/Liturgy(Acts 11:22-26).It was also due to the team work of St.Paul and Barnabas for more than a period of one year the followers of Christ were known as Christians(Acts 11:26)Antioch is not mother church as allegedly claimed by Jacobites in Malankara!Christianity originated in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentacost!
In the early days all decisions were taken in Jerusalem Church and the decisions in writing were handed over St.Paul and Barnabas to deliver Other Churches like Antioch and other places(acts15:12-34)
Jesus Christ, the eternal High Priest granted his priesthood to his disciples /apostles which was not converged through St.Peter or his successors alone in church!

vincent said...

പണ്ട് യാക്കോബായ സഭയെന്ന് ഒരു സഭയില്ല. സഭയുടെ പേര് മലങ്കര സഭയെന്നാണ്. മലങ്കര സഭയിലെ ആളുകളെ കളിയാക്കി വിളിച്ചു വരുന്ന പേര് ആണ് യാക്കോബായക്കാര്‍.അതിനു മുന്‍പ് മലങ്കര സഭയിലെ ആളുകളെ വിളിച്ചിരുന്നത്‌ മലങ്കര നസ്രാണികള്‍ എന്നാണ്. പിന്നീടു യകൊബായ വിശ്വാസം സ്വീകരിച്ചത് കൊണ്ട് യാക്കോബായക്കാര് എന്ന് കളിയാക്കി വിളിച്ചു.(യാക്കോബായക്കാര് എന്ന് കളിയാക്കി വിളിച്ചതിനു പകരമായിട്ട് ആണ് കത്തോലിക്കരെ റോമാകാര്‍ എന്ന് വിളിച്ചത് .) ie ..official name - മലങ്കര സഭ ,വിളിപേര് - യാകൊബയകാര്‍.
വേറെ ഒരു വിധത്തില്‍ പറഞ്ഞാല്‍ patriarchese പക്ഷവും catholica പക്ഷവും യാകൊബയകാര്‍ ആണ്(യാകൊബായ വിശ്വാസത്തില്‍ നടകുനത് കൊണ്ട് ). എന്നാല്‍ patriarchese പക്ഷം മലങ്കര സഭയുടെ കളിയാക് പേര് എടുത്തു അവരുടെ പക്ഷത്തിനു ഇട്ടു ,അങനെയാണ് അവര്‍കെ യാക്കോബായ സഭയെന്ന് പേര് വന്നത് . ശരിക്കും ഇപ്പോഴതെ യാക്കോബായ സഭയെന്ന് അറിയപെടുന്ന സഭയുടെ യഥാര്‍ത്ഥ പേര് malankara syriac orthodox church in india എന്നാണ്. (അതായിത് സിറിയിലുള്ള orthodox സഭയുടെ india -ല്‍ ഉള്ള മലങ്കര എന്ന ഭദ്രാസനം.)
അവര്‍ (പുത്തന്കുരിശു യാകൊബയകാര്‍ ) പറയുന്നു orthodox‌കാര്‍ (പഴയ യാകൊബയകാര്‍) മുടകപെട്ടവര്‍ ആണ് എന്ന്,anthiocian patriarchese ആണ് orthodox കാരെ മുടകിയതന്ന് .അത് കൊണ്ട് ഇനി ഒരു യോജിപിന്നുമില്ല എന്ന് .(ഈ മുടക്ക് തന്നെ ശരിയായിട്ടു ഉള്ളതല്ലല്ലോ, anthiocian -കാരന് മലങ്കരകാരുടെ മേല്‍ എന്ത് അധികാരമാ ഉള്ളത് ,ഇതു ഒരുമാതിരി pak : president ,indian president -നെ മുടകുനത് പോലയൂണ്ട്‌.)എന്ത് തെറ്റ് ചയേതിട്ടു ആണ് orthodox -കാരെ മുടകിയതന്നു ചോദിച്ചാല്‍ പറയും , anthiocian -കാരന്റെ അപ്പനെ (പത്രോസേസ്ലിഹ) സ്വന്തം അപ്പന്‍ ആണ് എന്ന് പറഞ്ഞില്ല പോലും. മലങ്കര സഭയുടെ അപ്പന്‍ തോമാ സ്ലിഹ ആണ്,അല്ലാതെ അയലോകാരന്റെ അപ്പനെ, അപ്പാ എന്ന് വിളിക്കാന്‍ ഞങ്ങളെ കിട്ടില്ല .(ഇവിടെ ആരും സത്യ വിശ്വാസത്തില്‍ നിന്ന് തെറ്റി പോയിട്ടിലല്ലോ ,സത്യ വിശ്വാസത്തില്‍ നിന്ന് തെറ്റി പോവുകയാണെങ്കില്‍ ആണ് മുടകെടത് ,അങ്ങനെ മുടക്കപെട്ടു മലങ്കര സഭയില്‍ നിന്ന് പുറത്തു പോയവര്‍ ആണ് ഇന്നത്തെ മാര്‍ത്തോമ സഭകാര്‍.)
മലങ്കര സഭയില്‍ നിന്ന് പിരിഞ്ഞു anthiocian- കാരുടെ കൂടെ പോകണമെന്ന് പറയുന്നവര ആണ് ഇപ്പോഴതെ യാകൊബയകാര്‍ (പുതന്കുരിശു യാകൊബയകാര്‍ ).അവര്‍ anthiocian- കാരുടെ കൂടെ പോകുനങ്ങില്‍ പോകട്ടെ ..,പകഷെ എന്തിനാ മലങ്കരയിലെ പള്ളികള്‍ കൂടെ anthiocian- കാരന് കൊണ്ട് കൊടുകണം എന്ന് പറയുന്നേ.(വേറെ ഒരു വിധത്തില്‍ പറഞ്ഞാല്‍ ഒരു പള്ളയില്‍ നിന്ന് കുറച്ച്‌ പേര്‍ penthucosthu -കാരുടെ കൂടെ പോവുകയാണെങ്കില്‍ ,അവര്‍ക്ക് പള്ളി കൂടെ കൊണ്ട് പോണം എന്ന് പറഞ്ഞാല്‍ ,അത് ന്യായമാണോ.)

(indebted to fr.thomas)

rajanthomas said...

Dear All
One of The Jacobite fellow made a Comment that Jesus gave the Keys of Kingdom of Heaven to St.Peter!I don't know how come Peter is alone Given The Keys!This Guy never read Bible or study Bible thoroughly!What Jesus Said To Simon Peter has to be Realised/understood in the Spiritual true sense!"The word Kills but Spirit give life"!Keys of Kingdom refers to a special authority that will be given to both St.peterand the other apostles after the resuurection(John20:23,Mathew18:18)Peter was not the leader of others but among them!This truth was confirmed at the Council of Jerusalem where the apostles and elders met as equals,and where Peter advised,but James presided!
Christ is the Foundation!Peter has confessed Christ!Peter and other disciples were then commissioned to Confess Christ before others!That Confession of faith how men respond to it is truely key to heaven!If any one is in Christ He is A NEW CREATION(2corin5:17)Only new Creation can enter the Kingdom of God!New Creation is our way of life in Jesus christ!
It is Not St.Peter or his successors in antioch/Throne in Antioch, who opens the door of Heaven to people live in Jesus Christ!

vincent said...

Dear Akash
The Disciples of Jesus Christ were not making any Thrones on earth!They were proclaiming gospel making people/converting gentiles to be christians or God's people!Can you show or tell us with sufficient proof of evidence thatSt.Peter made Throne in Antioch or any other Disciples made throne elsewhere they preached Gospel? Don't be foolish!Jesus Christ Promised Throne for each disciples to judge 12 tribes of Israel on his second glorious coming!So there are no thrones apart from that! Also carefully read the 5th Thubden all those fathers remembered there are not Antiocheans!
Christ did not appoint anybody as Pope,Patriarch or Catholicose as all these are man made things later on forth centuary!No one is going to heaven by by Chanting Throne in Antioch!First of All Learn What is throne and where it is in the Spirit of Christ!

vincent said...

ക്രിസ്തീയ പൗരോഹിത്യം എന്താണ് എന്ന് ആദ്യം പഠിക്കണം!അത് മനസ്സിലാക്കാതെ ചുമ്മാതെ പൌരോഹിത പിന്തുടര്‍ച്ച എന്താണെന്നു പറഞ്ഞു മറ്റുള്ളവരെ ബോധിപ്പിക്കാന്‍ എന്തിനു പാടുപെടുന്നു!ക്രിസ്തീയ പൌരിഹിത്യം അന്ത്യോക്യയില്‍ കുടിയിരിത്തി ഒരു പ്രഖ്യവനവും യേശുകര്‍ത്താവ്‌ കൊടുത്തിട്ടില്ല!പത്രോസ്ശ്ലീഹായ്കുമാത്രമായി കര്‍ത്താവ്‌ ഒരു അധികാരവും കൊടുത്തിട്ടില്ല!പത്രോസ് ശ്ലീഹ തനിയെ ആര്‍ക്കെങ്കിലും പട്ടം
കൊടുത്തതായി വേദ പുസ്തകത്തില്‍ രേഖപെടുതിയിട്ടുമില്ല!പിന്നെ പുരോഹിത്യം എങനെ അന്തോക്യയില്‍ കേന്ദ്രീകരിച്ചു?
കര്‍ത്താവു ഒരു ശ്ലീഹയിക്കും ഈ ഭൂമിയില്‍ സിംഹാസനം വാഗ്ദാനം ചെയ്തിട്ടുമില്ല!അന്ത്യോക്യയില്‍ സിംഹാസനം എങ്ങനെ ഉണ്ടായി?
സ്വയം നിലനില്പിന് വേദ വിപരീതം പറഞ്ഞു നടക്കുന്ന യക്കൊബയകാര്‍ യാക്കോബ്ബര്‍ദാന എവിടെ നിന്ന്
പട്ടം ഏറ്റു,ആര്കെല്ലാം എവിടെയൊക്കെ പട്ടം കൊടുത്തു എന്ന് മനസിലാക്കുക!യാക്കോബ് ബുര്ധാന സിംഹാസനവും അധികാരവും ഒന്നും എങ്ങും പൊക്കിപിടിച്ച് നടന്നിട്ടുമില്ല!യക്ക്കോബ് ബുര്ധാനയുടെ പിന്‍ഗാമികള്‍ അല്ല അന്ത്യോക്യയിലും മലങ്കരയിലും ഇപ്പോള് ള്ള സിറിയന്‍ ക്രിസ്ത്യാനികള്‍!

Geogy Abraham said...

From the history I could understand that Patriarch of Antioch is the Supreme Head of Universal Syrian Orthodox Church. In Malankara Catholicose is the head of the Malankara Syrian Orthodox Church. But Malankara Syrian Orthodox Church is a part of Universal Syrian Orthodox Church.

In 1912 the Malankara Syrian Orthodox Church divided, one group supported the Watteril thirumeni and other group supported Patriarch of Antioch. Further, on 1912 one division brought Ignatius Abdul Masih II and conserted Mor Ivanious as Catholicose Mor Baselious Paulose I (called as now as Indian Orthodox Church-IOC) and other remained loyalty to Patriarch of Antioch (called as Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church-SOC). From then onward Malankara Syrian Orthodox is functioning as two different churches i.e. IOC & SOC. It was for period of 12 years (1958-1970) both groups reunited together, where both groups recognized Patriarch of Antioch and accepted 1934 church constitution formulated by IOC church. It is accepted fact that the Catholicos (Mor Baselious Augen-I), in his letter of acceptance, on the last minute added a clause that he accepted the Patriarch "subject to the constitution of Malankara Church 1934”. Even then for a small period things went smoothly and later problems started in the Churches of Northern Parts of Kerala (Angamally, Kochi, Kandanad, Malabar). The dispute still continuing holy mass not done and parishioners not able to burry/go to cemetery and do their spiritual needs, which are not acceptable.

So, I again reiterate that IOC church must stop filing/withdraw cases against the SOC church. Come forward for a peaceful talk. Sit together in a round table at least agree on terms where both church has no issues, so that closed down churches could be open and holy mass could be conducted.

Also, I could read people saying that Mor Baselius Thomas I will be caught for the murder of Varghese. If HB is really guilty, he will face consequences; it will be done here or God is seeing it.

Here, what I want to convey is that church leaders will come and go, my only point is Jacobite and IOC church are two different churches which are loyal to two different thrones (Patriarch-Antioch & Catholicose-??).

ak said...

Malankara Syrian Orthodox Church is a part of Universal Syrian Orthodox Church. Patriarch of Antioch is the Supreme Head of Universal Syrian Orthodox Church. In Malankara, Catholicose is the head of the Malankara Syrian Orthodox Church.
samadhana kamshikalaya orthodox kar endinanu kothamangalam palliyil prashnam undakkunnathu. athyo ini ningal parayo avideyum jacobites aanu prashnam undakkunnath ennu. parumalayil oru palli paniyan ningal sammadikkunnilla avidathe samadhanam nashttapedumathre. annittu ippol ningal kmglm paliyil prashnam undakkunnu sharikkum samadhanam kaamshikkunnavar thanne.

Ebenezar said...

Dear GA
MOSC is not part of Syrian Orthodox Church of Antioch(Now you Call Universal syrian Orthodox)as claimed by yourselves! It is Not Vattaseeril Thirumeni who made division In Malankara!It was Abdulla Patriarch for his Greediness caused division in Malankara! The Problem was caused by Antioch Patriarch and his supporters in Malankara!Again 1970's Patriarch Yakkoob III by his infamous heretic Bull,un- cannonically and unconstuitionally made rift/division in Malankara and created all these present problems of church disputes!
Leave your baseless arguements here and you may listen to your Murder Plot and Mafia heirarchy The disputes of Church In Malankara got worse due to deceptive actions of H.B.Thomas I!

rajanthomas said...

Dear AK
Kothamangalam Church does not belong to Jacobites alone! That is the Why Court granted Very Rev. Paul Remban to enter in the church for conducting service/worship.No churches in Malankara belong to Antiochean/Syrian Patriarch or so called Universal Syrian Orthodox Church!
Those who ribelled against court verdict/decree made a Constituition in 2002 at Puthencruez to claim as a seperate church in Malankara,should abandon all their illegal claims, then there is no problem in Malankara! how comeSyrian OrthodoX Church of Antioch become "Universal" When?Which Synod recognise Syrian orthodox Church as Universal?
Hiding Criminals in Churches and using hired Killers for murdering people are Christian way or SATHYA VISWASIKAL ennu AVAKASAPEDUNNA YAKOBAYA KRISTHIANIKALKU YOJICHATHANO? There is no need to to have another Pally in Parumala!Are you people going to build another church in Velankanni just near to the present Catholic Church? Are you going to allow somebody to build another church in Manarcard St.Mary's Church in the same name?
Jacobites build a new church near Puthuppally St.george Orthodox Church in the same name of Saint!What is going on there even other people residing in Puthupally or its surrounding are aware of it!For Christians to worship God there is no need of making RIBEL CHURCHES!

Geogy Abraham said...

It is admitted that, for IOC all arguments are baseless and their points are correct. I know IOC greediness to claim all the Cross of Malankara, leaving behind the emotions of Parishioners of the church. All closed down churches in northern region (Angamali, Kandanad, Kochi & further northern parts) are true examples.



It is understood that Patriarch of Antioch does not have any direct control towards the churches here in Malankara. IF the parishioner and their elected member agree then only any decisions or direction from Patriarch could be enforced in the church. Here, in Northern region people love to enforce the direction and apostolic bull of Patriarch of Antioch. Northern region parishioners do not want the IOC leadership direction or Catholicose Devalokam bull to be enforced.

It is believed by parishioners of Northern region that it is because of the fathers of Antioch that the people in these region restored to be Christians and thereafter followed the Syrian tradition and customs. Hence, it is due to the love and affection we the Northern region parishioners want our Supreme Church Head to be from an Arab (where Jesus born & lived). Off course St. Thomas the apostle is the father of Indian Christians; and all Indian are know as “Marthoma Christians” to the world.



I again say the Patriarch of Antioch cannot take anything from here Malankara (or any place of India), unless people here in Malankara give wholeheartedly.



In view of the above, I again reiterate that IOC church must stop filing/withdraw cases against the SOC church. Come forward for a peaceful talk. Sit together in a round table at least agree on terms where both church has no issues, so that closed down churches could be open and holy mass could be conducted.

rajanthomas said...

GA
You have been making Baseless comments here for quiet sometime!You must realise There is Only one Malankara Sabha here!If You People want go to Antioch or you formed another Church in 2002 to escape from S/Court Verdictt that is upon you people! We had nothing to do with that!But You cannot Cliam as You are Part of Malankara Sabhain India!You are Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church Greater/Arch Diocese In India of Syrian Orthodox Church of Antioch/Damascus!

What ever you are reierate here are totally baselss/ and unwarranted comments or alleged claims used by H.B.Thomas I group!You are not an authorative person like S/C of India,or Tribunal who got power to reiterate or urge to do something based on common/customary law or justice and righteousness .During this period of Great Lent It is better to Devote time to God and spare time in the presence of God rather involvinginmeanilgless,illogic,insensible and unconstructive talks! First you people stop your alleged claims and Heretic teachings and follow Jesus Christ,then there is peace in Church!It is you people who do not want follow court verdict/decree but using poltical influence to create troubles in Church!Jesus never made any apostle/disciple as his Sole Ambassador/successor in Church of Christ!Jesus Never told anybody that follow him(jesus) shall be always under the Supreme head of Antioch/Damascus or from Syria!

Ebenezar said...

Dear GA
Kindly stop all your Allegations here! You did not prove anything with facts or evidence!
Yakkob Burdhana (father of Orthodox Faith)was consecrated in Alexandrea as Bishop,Later He Conscrated many bishops and clergies in varius Churches/placeslike Alexandrea,Constantinaples,Persia and in Antioch! He Became the Supreme head of Antioch Church but he never insisted/demanded all places he conscrated bishops or ordained clergies were under the Throne of Antioch or he was the supreme authority over those places/churches! You can have you own Heirarchy or Superior Head any where in the earth! This Has nothing to do with Malankara Church Administration!
better leave this forum to MOSC people!But Know one thing Nobody will enter in Christ's Kingdom through the throne of Antioch!

Geogy Abraham said...

I am writing here because it relates to the church problems in Northern region (Angamali, Kochi, Kandanad and further north of Kerala).

See readers, I am not in the intention to prove with papers works. As I belong to Northern region of Kerala and I know the facts there and problems experienced in the churches. IOC leadership could easily say to follow Supreme court verdict.
I again say that I am not in a support of HB Thomas I nor I am saying on behalf of HB, the catholicose will change time to time.
Also, I would like to tell all readers that I belong to dioceses of Kochi and my church is the only church where both the side bishops & catholicose can enter the church and do the spiritual needs without any police protection or court orders; even though the total church administration is in the hands of Syrian Orthodox group.
As India follow democracy, therefore, people have right to decide which religion to practice and have right to choose the head of the church (whether Patriarch of Antioch or Catholicose Devalokam). It is quite easy to say to enforce the verdict of Supreme Court in all Syrian Orthodox Churches. Then why this verdict cannot be enforced ? Even the government and other authorities know that it will be major communal problem and shall create a tension in the region. For example, it is IOC administration not allowing to built a Church in Parumala for the believers of SOC (I know only very few people are there, but still why can’t SOC church built their church of their own in Parumala), IOC administration claim that there will be tension in Parumula if SOC built their church.
Church is holy place and it is not the place where one should come with police protection and court order. First all should understand that church is built for the local people who live in and around the area to pray and fulfill their spiritual needs; and its parishioners decide who will administer the church. Bishops are the heads of the spiritual activities only.

From the words which you have written against my comments seems like IOC wants to claims the entire CROSS in India or probably the whole world in coming years. Such attitude must be stopped and all must understand the reality.

As we are in the mid of valiyha nombu it is better to spare more time in prayers with God and repent the sins and correct ourselves.

Therefore, I request all to pray to almighty to give wisdom to IOC administration to stop filing/withdraw cases against the SOC church. Come forward for a peaceful talk. Sit together in a round table at least agree on terms where both church has no issues, so that closed down churches could be open and holy mass could be conducted.

Ebenezar said...

Dear GA
First of all you read and study the clauses regarding"IdavakaPallikal" or Parishes/admnistration of Jacobite Church ! Then you talk about MOSC!Whatever you are argiung against MOC and What you are talking is not in your own 2002 Constituition!

ak said...

parumalayil njangal palli panithal athu samadanam thakarkkum. ella palliyilum case koduthu ningal samadhanam srishtikkunnu. very good attittude. keep it up

ak said...

ningalude cheneyappillil cor episcopa paranjathu ella palliyilum case kodukkan 2 peru mathi. athinu ellavarum munnottu varanam ennanu. sharikkum samadhanam ashikkunna koottar. ella palliyilum prashnam undakkiyittu prarthichalanallo daivam kelkkukayullu.ulla palliyil swasthada tharikayum illa palli paniyan sammathikkukayum illa. ningalude ethu palliyil anu njangal case koduthekkunne? ningal evide palli panithathanu njangal thadanjathu?

rajanthomas said...

@AK
What ever Cheynapally Chor Episcopa
said was not right.MOSC are not following the lines Cheynappally Chor Episcopa!There are peace loving people in Malankara!Although Cheynappally made his remark like that ,there are no new cases or no filing more suits based on Cheynappally call!
There were lot of betrayel done by your MORANS(Holy Fathers)of Antioch(selling Christians to Muslim for money) in the past,and at present your H.B. Thomas I incited/and planned murder Case of T.M.Varghese using money Collected on behalf of Charity for Hiring Killers and committing killing!So please stop your baseless arguements here!

Ebenezar said...

Dear AK
Jacobites made a Ribel Church in Puthuppally!Whatever going on there are well known to Puthupllay Non- Christians residents!What kind of Peace atmosphere Jacobites created in Malankara so far are known to everybody!Constructing ribel churches for what?Would you like to construct a Jacobite St.Mary's Church Just opposite present Velankanni Church?
Why don't you build a new Church in PuthenCruez/ or in north region(where you are more) in the name of St.Gregorios!

ak said...

how new church in parumala will become ribel church. if u dont know we will make u aware that church now in parumala is not in the name of parumala thirumeni it is st. pauls and st. peters church.am i right

ak said...

enthina ariyillatha karyangal chumma paranju nadakkunne. bava thirumeni endu cheythunna parayunne. ningalkku urappundo. ningalude thalappathullavar parayunnath kettu parayumbol sredhicho. veruthe enthina shapam ningalkkum thalamurakkum meduchu pidikkunne. alla athra urappanengil courtil theliyikku allathe ingane anavashyam paranju nadakkalle plsssss.

Ebenezar said...

Dear Ak
You don't need to make A ribel church in the name of St.Gregorios at parumala!You people made so many things in the name of Chathurithy thirumeni at your Place in the north region!you go MTV blog that matter( ribel church/ParumalaPally)rather than discussing it here.The present Church in Parumala was consecrated in the name of Saint Gregorios!so far you did not mention/write something which is correct!! herein this blog, we are not disccuusing that issue!Now we are not going anywhere to prove your H.B.is innocent or guilty! Time and court of law will prove it!Don't think that Everywhere and everytime your SHRESTAN can cover his darkside/darkface through his politcal influence!God sees the Truth but waits....!You Jacobites prior to 1958 try to kill our L/L.vattasseril Mar Dianyasius thirumeni,unfortunately the killer was not able to dothat by Grace of God,instead he (killer hired by late C.J. Kurien's brother:Abdul Kalam)killed the body gurad of vattasseril Thirumeni.There is always blood in so called Jacobite church/heirarchy/clergy people in the name of church feud!
It is not MOSC who are under curse as those who committed murder or used church account money to use Hired Killers!It is The court of Law orderd the inquiry through C.B.I to investigate the matter!we are not making any false stories here! therefore you better stop your allegations here in this blog!

rajanthomas said...

Malankara Varghese Murder Case: UK Syrian Orthodox Church Council
urges HB Baselious' resignation(II)

The Council, therefore, notes in its letter to HH Zaka that Syria-based Pontiff request the Catholicos to resign considering his age reason or at least go on ‘long leave’ until his name is cleared.

The council also requested His Holiness to send a delegation to enquire the irregularities committed among the UK Malankara Syrian Orthodox Community since His Grace Geevarghese Mar Coorilose took over as UK's Patriarchal Vicar.

The letter notes with regret that the majority of the people had lost their interest in the church and began to join the Pentecostal/Protestant groups. The youths were also not attending Sunday services anymore because of the church
politics and issues created by HG Geevarghese Mar Coorilose, it reasoned.
It also alleged that the bishop was collecting money in the name of ‘Theeram’ charity and targetted those who failed to pay for it. They have demanded the removal of the bishop and name a new leader in his place.

Signatories to the letter include Mr P Paul, President, Mr Mathew Varghese, Secretary and Mr M John, Treasurer.

rajanthomas said...

Dear Ak&GA
please log into :www.assyrianchristians/info/English/spiritual_killing.htm
you can understand what is going with Universal Orthodox Syrian Church headed by H.H.Zaka I

rajanthomas said...

LONDON -- A special council meeting of the UK Syrian Orthodox Church Council has decided to request HH Mor Ignatius Zakka I, Supreme Head of the Universal Syrian Orthodox Church for the immediate resignation of HB Baselious Thomas 1, the Presiding Hierarch of the Universal Syrian Orthodox Church in India for his alleged for his involvement in the murder case of Mr Varghese, Perumbavoor (Kerala).
The council at its recent meeting in London decided to request the Pontiff for the Catholicos (Baselious Thomas I) to stay away or go on long leave until his name is cleared in the case. The High Court in Kerala had recently ordered to re-investigate the murder case of Mr Varghese, Perumbavoor. The matter had made sensational breaking news in the regional and English print and electronic media in Kerala.
The Council reiterated that this was because the Kerala Court had publically declared the name of Catholicose Mor Baselious Thomas I to be investigated of his role and CBI had already listed Fr Varghese Thekkekara, Manager of HB Thomas I, Catholicose, as the first person in the criminal list. Hence, the letter said, the suspicion points to the involvement of the Catholicose’s involvement.
The letter dated March 2, 2011 was sent to HH His Holiness Mor Ignatius Zakka I and a copy also to HB Baselious Thomas I and HG Joseph Mar Gregorios, Secretary of the Holy Synod.

(Part I of UK SOC Council about H.B.Thomas I involvement in T.M.Varghese Murder case as per Ernakulam CJM order)

Geogy Abraham said...

Why we talking about the UK diocese. If the SOC of UK is doing the allegation against HB Thomas I, SOC church administration shall resolve/take action in the issue. See readers, if H.B Thomas I is found guilty HB will face trials else there is GOD who is seeing it. I know IOC leaders are waiting and want to blow this issue as IOC do not have such a capable administrative leader at present.
Now the point of discussion is “problems related to the northern region of Kerala”. Why can’t we resolve the church disputes out of court. The Northern churches are purely closed down by IOC administration (especially mor athanius supporters in kadanad region).
As India follow democracy, therefore, people have right to decide which religion to practice and have right to choose the head of the church (whether Patriarch of Antioch or Catholicose Devalokam). It is quite easy to say to enforce the verdict of Supreme Court in all Syrian Orthodox Churches.
It a humble request from a member of northern part of Kerala, that to give wisdom to IOC administration to stop filing/withdraw cases against the SOC church. Come forward for a peaceful talk. Sit together in a round table at least agree on terms where both church has no issues, so that closed down churches could be open and holy mass could be conducted.
I hope, IOC readers won’t come with usual negativity.

rajanthomas said...

Dear GA
Why do you accuse SOC of UK? They are not merely making any accusations!Secondly You do not refer the constituition of Soc or Jacobite Church and you do not want admit the clauses thereby or when Jacobite Church do not give any freedom to individual parishes (as They are governed by constituition of 2002) why do you want IOC to come and negotiate peace terms with you people for what?First you show or follow Christianism! In the name of Christ You people are only adoring THRONE(in Antioch)and teaching falsehood or follow heretic principles to rule earthly(physical) churches!What kind of Democracy you people are following in your Church? What ever H.B. Thomas I tell/order blindly follow by the faithful,that is not democracy!Under Indian Democracy,The supreme court of India is the final authority over the law and justice!MOSC/IOC never violated any court order of S/C of India!
by influecing political parties or goverment of the day your Heirarchy cannot go along forever!
The MOSC peace loving people formed a committee recently and they wanted to resolve the disputed church problem in malankara!(refer Samadhana Samithi organised by Fr.T.J. Joshua/Mammen Varghese)However it is your Church heirarchy first came to oppose that peace movement!When S/C of India, in 1995 suggested a tribunal to be appointed to settle the dispute it was your Heirachy first objected the settlement out of court!
The Ball is still in the court of H.B.Thomas I group! There is no reason blaming anybody for not playing!

rajanthomas said...

യാക്കോബായ സഭയുടെ വേദവിപരീതം
2002 -ലെ യാക്കോബായ സഭ പഠിപ്പിക്കുന്നതും വിശ്വസിപ്പിക്കൂന്നതുമയ വേദവിപരീതം
" ആത്മീയ നല്‍വരങ്ങളുടെ ഉറവിടം പ. അന്ത്യോക സിംഹസനമാണെന്ന്"
ആത്മ ദാതാവ് ആരാണ്?ആത്മ്മീയ നല്‍വരങ്ങള്‍ ആത്മ ദാതാവില്‍ നിന്നാണ്
പ്രാപികുന്നത്! വേദപുസ്തകത്തില്‍ എങ്ങും പറഞ്ഞിട്ടില്ലാത്ത കാര്യം യാക്കോബായ സഭ
പഠിപ്പിക്കുന്നു! ശ്രേഷ്ട ബാവ എന്ത് പറഞ്ഞാലും അതേപടി വിശ്വസിക്കുന്ന /പ്രവര്‍ത്തിക്കുന്ന
ഒരു വിഭാഗം കോമണ്‍ സെന്‍സ് ഇല്ലാത്ത ജനതകള്‍ ആണ് യാക്കോബായ വിഭാഗം!

rajanthomas said...

DEAR GA
In you comments on 24th March,2011 you said that Augen I Catholicose added a Verse or sentence that MOSC and him(catholicose) accept patriarch subject to 1934 constituition!This your statement is completely and entirely wrong/falsehood, as the peace accord was held in 1958 December at devalokam kottayam between represntative of Patriarch Mar Yulios and MarBaselios Geevarghese II Catholicose!There was no addition or inclusion of words/phrases by MOSC head.You don't even know, when where the peace accord was made and how!By then Accepting the peace accord Jacobite faction saved a lot of money as per the S/C verdict Patriarch Group/Jacobite Faction had to pay 12 lakhs rupees to MOSC as compensation by that time!
You people are always ungreatful to the genorisity of L/L Catholicose Geevarghese Baselios II and MOSC.

rajanthomas said...

Dear All
There is another mistake in the church history of Jacobite in Malankara.It says that in A.D. 37 st.Peter established the throne in Antioch(in bracket they quote Acts13:26)Acts 13:26 refers St.Paul'spreaching in Antioch atPisidia and not antioch in Syria!This shows that Jacobites in Malankara always make untrue/false statements or history regarding their existense!
The followers of Christ in antioch were first known as Christians(Acts 11:26)This was due to combined team gospel work of Saul(St.Paul)and Barnabas for more than a year in antioch! How come Jacobites claim that St.Peter founded throne in Antioch are totally baseless and wrong teachings without any biblical support!

samji said...

Dear GA
For Malankara Nazaranis their apostle and Spiritual father is St.Thomas!Those who call themselves as Jacobites who are loyal to Throne Of Antioch/Patriarch of Damascus are not Malankara Nazranis!Jesus never commanded his disciples to establish thrones in earth or throne of Apostles on earthly mission!Jesus Christ,the Lord is the one who promised Thrones to his Apostles!The self styled Jacobites are not part of Malankara Church or Malankara Christians!It is better for those self styled jacobites to refrain from MALANKARA ORTHODOX CHURCH or its properties!

Evolution said...

Ivide chila budhi jeevikal post cheyyunna visheshangal kandu njan njetti tharichu irikkukayaanu.ithrayum puthimaanmar keralathil undallooo!!

Claim 1: The fastest growing church in USA is Orthodox.
I do not know how this genius found out this fact?!!! The real scene is whole of europe and america are moving away from religious belief and God, then who is this orthodox people. Indian Orthodox?? I guess it's the eastern orthodox who makes any improvement in the western world and not any of the Oriental Orthodox churches including the syriac orthodox church. The possibility of IOC is far behind SOC anyway.Another funny fact is that the eastern orthodox people do not consider orientals even as Orthodox (Orthodox vishwasathile adhasthithar aanu ee oriental orthodox ennu saaram)

Claim 2. Maphrian baseliose Eldho came to malankara in the expense of Malakara church.And mor baseliose used east syriac.

This must be true in 1650's the money transfer was as smooth as internet banking..maphriana died on the third day after his arrival so the money he got might have used in those three days or might have sent back to his home in the same way(internet banking). Ivante okke thalakku thalam vekkanam.....

Mor Baseliose arrived many more years after the koonan kurishu sathyam and we the ''puthekootukar'' used another version of ''aradhana kramam''.
that's why we have been used ''puthen''. So it is not east syriac for sure. Ok for argument sake I agree it to be east syriac but still mor baseliose was under the rule of patriarch of antioch and sent by him. Why we did not continue with the east syriac rite. irrecoverably lost by the time?!!! Or Antiochians did not allow you to continue?!! Are you ready to take the east syriac if it is brought back.( You can contact the syro malabar church, they are claiming so)

aaayiram perullidathu 5 per kayari kodathy vidhi kaanichu palli pidichedukkan nokkunnathano christianity. manaprayasam kondu aarelum thirichadichal avan theevra vaadi. ningalokke punyavanmaarum.

Kudumbathil pirannavar kodathy vidhi vazhiyalla thanthaye theerumaanikkuka. Vishwasavum athu polulla onnanu..

Sorry ithu kriyaathmakam aavilla ennariyaam ennaalum ...chumma irikkattennu..

Dennis said...

when did this ramban become the vicar of cheriya palli.....