Sunday, October 3, 2010

അന്ത്യോക്യാ പാത്രിയര്കീസുമായുള്ള ബന്ധം വ്യവസ്ഥാപിതവും ഭരണഘടനാപരവും ആക്കുന്നതിനെ കുറിച്ച് പുതെന്കുരിസു സൊസൈറ്റിയിലെ തീവ്രവാദികള്‍ ചിന്തിച്ചു തുടങ്ങുന്നു.

Puthenkurisu സൊസൈറ്റിയില്‍  കടുത്ത പ്രതിസന്ധി. തോമസ്‌ പ്രഥമന്‍ ബാവ  പാത്രിയര്കീസു ബാവയ്ക്ക് രാജി നല്‍കിയത് സ്വീകരിച്ചു. ജോസഫ്‌ മാര്‍ Gregorios ഉം മറ്റൊരു മെത്രാനും കൂടി പോയി പാത്രിയര്കീസു ബാവയുടെ കയ്യില്‍ നിന്ന് രാജി തിരികെ വാങ്ങി. അമേരിക്കയിലെ മലയാളി യാകൊബയക്കാരുടെ മെത്രാനും ഭദ്രസനവും  മലങ്കരയുടെ കീഴില്‍ ആക്കണമെന്ന Puthenkurisu സൊസൈറ്റി സുന്നഹദോസു തീരുമാനം  പാത്രിയര്കീസു ബാവ നിരാകരിച്ചു. മലങ്കരസഭാ പ്രശ്നം പഠിക്കാനും തോമസ്‌ പ്രഥമന്‍ ബാവയുടെ നടപടികള്‍ അന്വേഷിക്കാനും അന്ത്യോക്യയില്‍ നിന്ന് കമ്മീഷന്‍ വന്നു. അഞ്ചു വര്‍ഷത്തേക്ക് കേരളത്തില്‍ പുതിയ മെത്രാന്മാരെ വാഴിക്കരുതെന്നു പാത്രിയര്കീസു ബാവയുടെ കല്പന. തോമസ്‌ പ്രഥമന്‍ ബാവയ്ക് തന്‍റെ നിലപാടുകള്‍ പറയാന്‍ അവസരം കൊടുത്തില്ല. ജൂനിയര്‍ മെത്രാന്‍മാര്‍ Geevarghese മാര്‍ കൂറിലോസിനെ നിയുക്തനാക്കാന്‍ രംഗത്ത്.ജോസഫ്‌ മാര്‍ Gregorios രംഗത്ത് നിന്ന് തല്ക്കാലം പിന്‍മാറി നില്‍ക്കുന്നു.അസംത്ര്പ്തരായ മെത്രാന്മാര്‍ മറ്റു ലാവണങ്ങള്‍ തേടുന്നു.













The Holy Synod of the Syriac Orthodox Church of അന്റേച്

തോമസ്‌ പ്രഥമന്‍ ബാവയ്ക്ക് പാത്രിയര്‍ക്കീസു സ്ഥാനം കിട്ടുമോ? ഉത്തരം
Constitution of Society. About Election of Sreshta Bava

Yakobaya Bharana Ghadana Asadhu by Vipin k. Varghese.

Ammaye Marannalum Anthionkyaye Marakkilla? by Fr. Johnson Punchakkonam.

211 comments:

1 – 200 of 211   Newer›   Newest»
Ravi George said...

The decisions of the The Holy Synod of the Syriac Orthodox Church of Antioch has great long term implications.

It is now clear that HB Thomas's jurisdiction is limited only to India. All the Syriac Indians living abroad in the Gulf or Europe or America are under His Holiness the patriarch. That means Thomas pradhaman has no authority over any Jacobite (malayali) who is living outside India.

Thomas bava is NOT going to take it lightly. HB while being the Angamali metroplotan banned his own Catholicose HB Paulose from entering the Churches of Angamali diocese. So we before the joint synod planned for 2011, the relationship of HB Thomas with Antioch will worsen. There will be some hardliners in Malankara who will side with HB Thomas. Some the Malayali Jacobite Churches abroad also may support Thomas Bava. If matters are not settled as per the terms laid by Thomas Thirumeni, there is every likelihood that HB Thomas would lead a split in the Church. A few bishops in the Jacobite camp who may support Antioch will be expelled by Thomas Bava. I think HH Zacha Bava will be forced to eat a himble pie. No doubt HH will regret that he anointed Thomas Thirumeni as the Mapheryono of India. Now Jacobites are getting a lesson ON THE MEANING OF FREEDOM.

Thomas bava is trying to tighten his grip over the Holy See churches in India (Simhasana Churches).

Eventually HH Patriarch's position in India will be very weak and for namesake only. HH had done a very bad thing by anointing a rebel Catholicose and now he will pay a price for it. I requests all Orthodox Christians in India to pray for unity of Indian Orthorodxy.

Geo said...

Uppu thinnavan vellam kudikkatte... In a near future, "Dr." Thomas mapriyan will be declared as a patriarch by himself, and he will excommunicate HH Zakka 1. HH Zakka 1 is a clever man, he knows main income is from Gulf, europe and US. he doesn't require the poor people from India. Thomas mapriyan has been trying to remove his Metropolitan Eldho Thithose from US. But he failed in that, because Eldho Thithose is directly reporting to Patriarch. This conflict started long back. HG Thithose even arranged a big gathering of his supporters there in US (Nearly 20,000 people) please note that, thomas maphriano could arrange only 2500 people for his Aluva meeting. thats the reason why Puthencruz charitable soceity is planning for a new revision in their so called illegal constitution framed only in 2002.
Nice to see one thing in their Synod's minutes of meeting, Patriarch clearly mentioned HH Augen 1 as Catholicose and they have mentioned Thomas 1 as only Maprian.. Dr. Thomas 1 should at least remove the salutation "Catholicose" from his name. you are not authorized to use that. \there is only one Catholicose in malankara church.

Reni said...

iNI BUDDHIYULLLA JAKOBAYAKAAR ORU KARYAM CHEYYUKA.. ITHRAYUM KAALAM ANTIOCHIA KEEEE JAY ENNU VILICCHITTU IPPO KANDO? When we said about the greed of Patriarch nobody in the jacobite camp bothered....

Now let us unite and build the Indian Church. NOBODY IS WINNER, NOBODY IS LOSER.. ONLY CHRIST IS WINNER

Reni said...

Kula patriarchinum, kalaamandam Thomas Pradhamanum. Ippo sammathikkum HB Thomas Bava

Ebenezar said...

Dear all
When consecratingL/L H.H.Augen I as Catholicose,in 1964 L/L. H.H.Yakoob III,deliberately made A Shamoulso that Augen Bava is under Throne of Antioch!This Syrian Partriarchs are very cunning as they know that Malankara Christians are not under their throne/see!L.L.H.B Paulose Baselios(of jacobites)later understood the cunning/crooked mentality of syrian Partriarch as he was only a rubberstamp under them!He was very regretable/sorrowful in his last days of his earthly abode as realised the mistakes!Let the present heirarchy of Jacobites realise their mistakes also!

John Thachamperil said...

Valarey Nannayirikkunnu. entha ippol sahikkunnilley. ithu nerathey chinthikkanjathenthukonda. Vaiki vanna vivekam.

Ravi George said...

The following paragraph is taken from malankara Syriac Voice, a website of jacobites

"The Malankara Syrian Church, called, the Jacobite Syrian Christian Church or the Malankara Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church, is an integral part of the Universal Syriac Orthodox Church with the Patriarch of Antioch & all the East as its supreme head. The local head of the church in Malankara is the Catholicos of the East/India, ordained by and accountable to the Patriarch of Antioch & all the East."

Ini kaanmam podipooram!

John Thachamperil said...

Zakka 1 Kalikkum, Pradhamaney Kali padippikkum. Kaathirunnu kanam aaraarey mudakkum ennullatu. 1971 onnu koodi orthu kondu chevikku nullikko.

Avarachayan said...

സക്കാ പ്രഥമന്‍ ബാവയ്ക്ക് അദ്ധേഹത്തിന്റെ കൂടെയുള്ള ഒരാളെ പോലും വിശ്വാസമില്ലെന്ന് മനസ്സിലായി. അദ്ദേഹം മൂറോന്‍ കൂദാശക്ക് തോമസ്‌ പ്രഥമന്‍ മാപ്രിയനയെ എന്തിനാണ് വിളിപ്പിച്ചത് എന്ന് അറിയണോ? തോമസ്‌ പ്രഥമന്റെ കയ്യില്‍ നിന്നും ധൈര്യമായിട്ടു ആരും മൂറോന്‍ തട്ടിപ്പരിക്കില്ലെന്നു സക്കാ പ്രഥമന്‍ ബാവയ്ക്ക് അറിയാം. ഇപ്പോള്‍ ഗുണ്ടായിസ്സത്തിനു മാത്രമേ അങ്ങേരെ കൊണ്ട് കാര്യമുള്ളൂ എന്ന് മനസ്സിലായി.

Reni said...

It is only God's GREAT MERCY THAT WE HAD SEPARATED FROM THESE PATRARCHS LONG BACK. It is certain that before 2020 there will not be any patriarchal supporters in India.

HH aim to build a church with all non-resident Kerala syrian people because HH knows they are rich.

Reni said...

I think HH will offer soem soaps to keep him limyed to India only. But HB i stoo clever to fal into this trap.

Shesham bahagam screenil....

rajan said...

Dear Mr. Geo,

You are absolutely right.

The early Antician has its history of it spilit, those who wupport the king and thus got prominance in the Government. That tricky tradition is continuing still now.
So from the begining itself this was manifested "Wolf eye on the hen" (the money)
On his last visit in United Arab Emirates Patriarch must have shocked with the resources. In addition to that now only he has been notified by the slave supporters that the Custodian of the Church is "Vicar". There is an amble opportunity to bring them directly under his control. Now he can influence the Gulf region with manipulated documents as the relegious head of their chruches. Hence, should be custodian of the churches in Middle East and Gulf region. According to the rules HB Thomas can't even enter the chruch untill and unless the Vicar of the Gulf church thought for the Visit Visa.
Now the Jacobites are accepting him as Holy Dictator Supreme head. Let us pray at least in this eleventh hour let them learn the good lesson of the implications on "Appaneyum Sahoderaneyum tholpiche Ayalathukarene Graha Nathan akkiyalulla anubavam"and will understand the precious value of real familyhood and turn for reconciliation and harmony with the real Father and brothers (The Indian Orthodox Church)

Varghese Mathai
Member SGOC Sharjah.

Aby said...

ഇതു നിങ്ങളുടെ ആഗ്രഹം മാത്രം ,പക്ഷെ പാതൃഅര്‍ക്കീസ് ബാവയെ അങ്ങീകരിക്കുന്ന ആരും അത് ചിന്തിച്ചിട്ട് പോലുമില്ല .ഇല്ലാത്തത് തോന്നുന്നതിനെ 'ഹാല്ലുസിനെഷന്‍' എന്ന് പറയുന്നു

Reni said...

@Aby
We proud followers of ST THOMAS, the BOLDEST apostle of CHRIST, wish only that we are allowed our FREEDOM to govern ourselves. We do not wish meddle with affairs of the Arab Churches. Pakshe avarude bhanaram ivide njngalkku venda.

Ella satyavum aadyam deny cheyyum. Ippol nadakkunna, bhaaviyil nadakkanirikkunna karyangal nigalkku kayicchittu irakkanum vayya madhuricchittu thuppanum vayya enna nilayilaakunnathil njangalkku vedanayundu. Pakshe buddhi upadeshicchu tharunnathu sweekaricchal ee rajytthinu kollam./

Ipe said...

Antoch malankara relation : ethu vypasthapithavum bharankhadana parvum akkiyal, sabha onnakunnathil enthanu prasanam ullathu?

It is apprecaiable footstep by Jacobite church , It may open the door of unity , and engane ayal moovattupuzha athanasious thirumenikkum,milithos thirumenikkum nammude sabhayil rolilla, avaralle ethu paranju avide ninnum erangi engottu vannathu...

Mathew Kuriakose, PTA said...

My Dear Aby,
Pathu Theevravadhykale Phone Chaithu Chodhichittu Pore Ee Veeravadham.

Americakkayile Malayaly Yakobayakkarude Dollar Vangyiyittu HH Zakka Bava, HB Thomas Bavaye Adhishepichu Vittathu, Aluvayile Valia Thirumeni Shamichathu pole Shamikkanamennu Paranjal Nadappulla Karyamalla.

Reni said...

Ithokke prasava vedanayude arambham maathram.

Probabaly this has come as a shock to any Antioch devotees. We are not shocked by this attitude of Antioch. Our fore fathers knew it generations before. We have been fighting the greed of Antioch fathers for more than a CENTURY now. When we raised we were called Anti-Church and were expelled.

Now our call is addressed to all our Jacobite brothers who were separated from us because of differences on Antioch. LET US BUILD A UNITED ORTHODOX FAITH IN INDIA. NOBODY IS A WINNER HERE, NOBODY IS A LOSER. WE ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST. NOW OR ANY DAY WE WIL HAVE TO BECOME ONE, THAT IS CERTAIN. SO LET US NOT WAIT FOR YEARS, DECADES AND CENTURIES.

LET US HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH PATRIARCH AS WELL AND WITH ALL ORHTODOX FAMILY. THERE IS GOOD FUTURE FOR INDIAN ORTHODOXY.

Chandichayan, Puthuppally said...

അന്ത്യോക്യാക്കൂ വേണ്ടി തല്ലാനും കൊല്ലാനും നടന്നിട്ട് അവസാനം കറിവേപ്പില പോലെ ആയ മുന്‍ഗാമികള്‍ക്ക് ഒരു നല്ല പിന്ഗാമി. എന്നാലും സക്കാ ബാവ ഈ കൊലച്ചതി ചെയ്യുമെന്ന് ആരും കരുതിയില്ല.

gabriel said...

part 1

respected ravi chetan,geo chetan,reni chetan and others who posted aganist prince patriarch and Catholicose,
I pity you all for just trying to find fault . Mates, remove the logs from your eyes before talking about the dust in jacobites eyes. It is clear that you all are just trying to spread some rumors to make people believe that there is some drift between patriarch and catholica bava. Leave the so called problems of jacobites to them and try to improve and resolve the probs in your church.
You all have mentioned that HB Thomas has no authority over jacobites outside India. Can i ask you one thing, ...Will you all not listen to your father if he is not residing with you in the same country!!. Where ever i go , me and my forthcoming generations will not forget our patriarch and catholica bava.
Pls don't see our prince patriarch with the same eye as you see your bava....If he had any need for authority or power,he could have easily got it before itself. At this age, he is a simple and humble servant in our god's vineyard. He doesn't need to look or show any sort of authority to get respect as respect comes from heart and not mouth. Please ask your bishops who went to visit holy land. Ask your bishop who wanted to offer a mass in our church in Damascus. They may be able to tell you the simple and humble nature of our patriarch

gabriel said...

part 2


Why should HB change his salutation….He was ordained by the prince patriarch ,the supreme authority who has the right to do so and not anyone else….. Like you consider a catholicose for your church, we have our catholicose in HB Thomas 1st…it is as simple as that. If you feel that, there should be only one catholicose, you can keep your catholicate designate in the same position as he is after the term of Didimos thirumeni .
Buddiyulla jacobites will still continue to hail HH Patriarch and HB catholicose…. Mr John Thachamperil was saying about the potential games that will be played between our patriarch and catholicose…Again, please don’t consider our spiritual leaders like yours who fight for power and money…….
Many seem to complain about Arab Christian and decline of Arab Christianity….then how come you all are following the same traditions and culture as we do. Why don’t you change your Holy mass vestments to match your so called Indian church. Why do your bishops wear the same dress code as practiced in Syria….Tell them to change to CSI like style… You guys complain about this and that but still are following all our features. We all know that you will find some ‘lame excuse to retain our features ‘else you would be losing your pseudo hold on parumala thirumeni
Sorry if I have hurt any ones feeling by my writing. I never wanted to write anything but the way develokam supporters were commenting, I feel that even a small child in jacobite faith will reply back

Geo said...

dear Mr. Gabriel,
In all existing orthodox churches in the world, there is similarity in dress code. you might have seen this dress code only in syria. it is not like that. I got the opportunity to meet several priests and bishops from Ethiopian orthodox church, and Egyptian orthodox churches, there in those churches even the priests are having same dress code of our bishops. there is similarity in worships, qurbana and other holy activities in all the orthodox churches in the world. the ethiopian orthodox church is even an ancient church when compare to syrian orthodox church. please don't think that there is only one orthodox church in the world ie. in syria. even in syria at present there are 5 patriarchs. Zakka 1 is just one among them. they are having similarities in their dress code and similarity in faith. recently one patriarch visited kerala as a guest of malankara catholica sabha. they are having the same qurbana of ours.
please don't blindly think that, the dress code of orthodox priests is from syria.

Ravi George said...

@ Mr Gabriel

Thank you. You have not brought any new MESSAGE except the same old rhetoric praising the Patriarch and HB Thomas.

Let me put it briefly: YOU PEOPLE ARE ALL IN THE DARK


1. Your voters list in Antioch is getting ready. Hope atleast 'the majortity millions in India' get franchise (maximum 2 votes) to chose the 'only ARAB' candidate who will be as crowned as the PRINCE Patriarch.

2. We have little doubt about the humility of the present or former Patriarchs. We have had lessons on humility from them for a couple of centuries.
Moreover, I see almost everyday pictures most this most humble servant having dinner with royal people while his followers are starving in Iraq and elsewhere without even basic human rights.

Gabriel said "If he had any need for authority or power, he could have easily got it before itself." yes you are right. See he had not troubled Thomas bava with worrying about the weak and troubled Indain sheeps in US, Gulf and Europe.

3. The Antiochian synod notes said: Jurisdiction of HB Thomas is limited only to India. His own Indian followers are reporting directly to patriarch. That means HB Thomas Thirumeni has no authority in US, Gulf, Europe though the followers are Indians.

Humble HH Bava will shephered only the most needy (in USA, Gulf and Europe) like Christ carried the weak ones on his shoulders leaving the strong and healthy ones in india to Thomas thirumeni.

We are most happy that this arragement works well and is very pleasing to people like Gabriel.

But HB Thomas Thirumeni was anointed by HH Zacha bava as Mapheryono of India in 2002. Now why took 8 years to define his jurisdiction? Anyway, let us hope to hear from something from HB Thomas Thirumeni himself.

4. About liturgy and other practices folowed by our Church. We had discuused the same in this site and made our stand clear. You can go to those posts.

5. Please understand that Your HB is not our HH. Your HB is just a subordinate, as defined in the synod, who has no right to chose himself or any of his own followers to head the church though he has majority of followers under him. We are most happy that we have nothingto do with this RACIST deal. FOR OUR FUTURE GENERATIONS, We are looking towards BUILDING AN INDIAN NATIONAL CHURCH with self respect

6. Finally, we are proud about our ancestry and about our FOUNDER FATHER ST THOMAS about whom an evil minded Patriach issued a kalapana that Thomas, the apostle, is not even a priest.
Let me ask you in reurn "What right had this patriarch got to judge Christ who called Thomas as an apostle?"


GABRIEL SAID "Will you all not listen to your father if he is not residing with you in the same country!!. Where ever i go , me and my forthcoming generations will not forget our patriarch and catholica bava."

Fortunately, according to the patriarch's bull St Thomas was only a laity he had no authority to anoint priests in India. Otherwise Mr Gabriel and his generatins would have obeyed St Thomas.


7 Yes Gabriel, we are still waiting for the reaction of some 'buddhiyulla' Jacobites.

mohanmathew said...

Jacibites nu vendi fight cheythu avare pidicchu nirtthiya Thomas Thirumeniyodu Patriarch ingane cheyyunnathu kaduttha kattueethiyaanu. Arabikalude ethical code inganeyano parayunnathu? Ithu thanne pandu nammodu cheythappol "poyi vere pani nokkan paranju" Annu angane paranjillarunnenkil innu nammalum...

Thomas Bava onnu vicharicchirunnenkil Patriarch bava ivide VATTA POOJYAM AYENE. Anganeyulla oru vyakthiyidu ithu cheythathu anyaayam aayi.

mohanmathew said...

Yeldho Mor Theethose, Bishop of the Malankara Archdiocese of North America, reports directly to the Patriarch of Antioch.

As the latest synod notes said HB Thomas Bav has no authority over his diaspora churches in USA, in Erope and also in Gulf. Aleady Mor Theethose reports directly to HH Zacha bava. very soon we can expect Patriarch to excersise his power in Gulf and in Europe.

Eea vayasyukalaathu odinatannu ellu muriye paniyedutthittu Thomas Thirumenikku kooli kitti..

mohanmathew said...

APPOZHE PARANJILLE POKANDAA POKANDAANNU..
athyokyaaakku POKANDAA POKANDAANNU

APPOZHE PARANJILLE POKANDAA POKANDAANNU..
athyokyaaakku POKANDAA POKANDAANNU


...Iniyenthu cheyyum.. Ottalil kidannathum poyi...

rajan said...

Dear Jaicobite brothers,
Let me know about status of these Churches, Are they independent or under the yolk of Other Nations and Patriarch?
The Patriarchate of Constantinople claims unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Andrew.
The Greek Orthodox Church of Alexandria claims unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Mark
The Russian Orthodox Church claims unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Andrew
The Armenian Apostolic Church claims unbroken succession to the Thrones of Saint Bartholomew and Saint Thaddeus (Jude)
The Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria claims unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Mark
The Church of the East, including the Saint Thomas Church (e.g., Indian (Malankara) Orthodox Church claims unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Thomas the Apostle
The Orthodox Church of Cyprus claims unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Barnabas
The Ethiopian Orthodox Church claims succession to the Throne of Saint Philip
The Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem claims succession to the Throne of Saint James the Just,although this line includes Patriarchs in exile. (see Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem )
The Roman Papacy of the Catholic Church claims unbroken succession to the Throne of Saint Peter called "Prince of the Apostles"

From my knowledge most of them struggled a lot for the freedom and are independent.

rajan said...

Further Read the following -
Four Marks of the Church - by Kenneth D. Whitehead
We can show how the Church of the apostles resembles in all essentials the Church of today by showing how the early Church already bore the marks, or "notes," of the true Church of Christ which are still professed today in the Nicene Creed. The Nicene Creed declares the Church to be One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic.
Thus, the Church of the apostles was definitely one: "There is one body and one spirit," Paul wrote, "just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of us all" (Eph. 4:4-5). Paul linked this primitive unity to the Church's common Eucharistic bread: "Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of one bread" (1 Cor. 10:17). Jesus had promised at the outset that "there would be one flock, one shepherd" (John 10:16).
(Note: A body got different parts, like different church as a whole is His bride and one body)
"Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners" (1 Tim. 1:15). The Church was founded for no other reason than to continue Christ's redemptive and sanctifying work with them in the world.
One of the things implicit in the appellation "holy" as applied to the Church, then, is that the Church from the beginning has been endowed with the sacramental means to help make holy the sinners who are found in her ranks. The Church has been given the sacraments along with the word precisely in order to be able to help make sinners holy.

rajan said...

Four Marks of the Church - by Kenneth D. Whitehead
It was in this sense that Paul was able to write, "Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that he might present the Church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish" (Eph. 5:25-27). The holiness of the Church, of which the creed properly speaks, has always had reference to her divine Founder and to what the Church was founded by him with the power and authority to do, not with the condition of her members.
The third great historic mark or note of the one true Church was that this Church was Catholic. "Catholic" means "universal." It refers as much to the fullness of the faith which it possesses as it does to the undeniable extension in both time and space which has characterized it virtually from the beginning. At the very beginning, of course, it was no doubt difficult to see how the "little flock" (Luke 12:32) of which the Church then consisted could by any stretch of the imagination qualify as "universal." Still, just as the embryo contains in germ the whole human being, so the Church already contained the universality that would quickly begin to manifest itself.
It is not without significance that the Holy Spirit came down upon the Church at Pentecost at a time when "there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven" (Acts 2:5). It was to them that the Holy Spirit temporarily enabled the apostles to speak in the languages of all these various nations--a powerful sign that the Church was destined for all men everywhere, represented at that first Pentecost in Jerusalem by those of many nations who had come there from afar. Many accepted the faith then and there and presumably began forthwith carrying "the Catholic Church" back to the four corners of the earth.

rajan said...

(Note: Every one present on that day has given the authority to spread and establish the church representing the twelve tribes)
Four Marks of the Church - by Kenneth D. Whitehead
The Catholicity of the Church in any case resides as much in the fact that the Church is for everybody at all times as it does in the fact that it was indeed destined to spread everywhere throughout the whole world. Within a few years of the foundation of the Church, Paul was writing that "the word of truth . . . in the whole world . . . is bearing fruit and growing" (Col. 1:5-6).
Finally, the Church that issued from the commission of Christ to the apostles was necessarily apostolic. Christ founded the Church upon the apostles and in no other way: "Did I not choose you, the twelve?" he asked them (John 6:70). The apostles of all people understood perfectly well that they did not set themselves up in their own little community, as we sometimes today see "gospel churches" set up in store fronts or in the suburbs. The New Testament teaches, "One does not take the honor upon himself" (Heb. 5:4).
(Note: Like the protestant do not stick to once stanza of the bible “you are rock and I built my church on you”. Read the whole part and then understand the mystery hidden in it)
Nothing is clearer, then, that the Church started out as "apostolic." The question is whether the apostles had the power and authority to pass on to others what they had received from Christ. We have already seen that they very definitely did have this power and authority; the New Testament evidence is clear about that. The subsequent historical evidence is equally clear that they did pass it on to successors (the bishops). Indeed there are already references in the New Testament itself to the appointment of bishops by the apostles, as well as to the appointment of further bishops by them (Titus 1:5-9).
(Note: St. Paul did not insist that St. Peter should come and ordain the Bishop. Don’t get confused with the word leaders, because this portion clearly attributes the qualities that a priest or bishop should adhere in his life)

rajan said...

When we ask where, if anywhere, is to be found the same Church which the New Testament tells us Christ founded, we have to reformulate the question to ask: What Church, if any, descends in an unbroken line from the apostles of Jesus Christ (and also, not incidentally, possesses the other essential notes of the true Church of which the creed speaks)?
Further, to introduce a point we have not dwelt upon at all up to now, What Church, if any, is headed by a single recognized designated leader, just as the apostles of Jesus plainly functioned, on the evidence of the New Testament, under the headship of Peter?
To ask these questions is to answer them: Any entity or body claiming to be the Church of Christ would have to be able to demonstrate its apostolicity by demonstrating an organic link with the original apostles on whom Christ manifestly established his Church. Nothing less than this could qualify as the "apostolic" Church which Jesus founded.
As much for our instruction as for the assurance he intended to give to the apostles to whom he was actually speaking, Jesus said, "He who hears you, hears me" (Luke 10:16). Do we take these words seriously today? Do we listen to the teachings of the successors of the apostles of Jesus, the bishops, in union with and under the successor of the apostle Peter, the pope, as if these teachings were the words of Christ himself?
If we do, we are properly members of the Church which Jesus Christ founded on the apostles and which has come down to us from them. If we do not, how can we pretend that we take anything seriously that Christ said and taught?
He said nothing more solemnly and categorically than these words, in which he declared that the apostles and their successors would speak for him in the serious business of gathering in and sanctifying his people and leading them toward the salvation he offers. Jesus intended that the fullness of his grace should come to his people in a Church that, from the beginning, was what the creed still calls it today: One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic.
(Note: I hope people with clear vision and insight and the wisdom (the gift of God) can understand above write ups. People may have knowledge, but the blind can’t lead another blind. Only the remedy is to pray for them so that the enlighten one let guide them to the clear vision)

Reni said...

enthu vyavasthapitham?

Both do not work as per the constitution.

jacobies have formed a group as per the society act.

The latest synod note of teh Antioch Church proves that they do not have a proper constitution. They are yet to think about the many basic things on relationship with jacobites.

Ivarokke yaanu 1934-il oru constitutionundakkiya nammale padippikkan varunnathu. Patriarchs wanted only absolute power. We wanted it only as per the constitution. See Jacobites are 100 years behind us. Now they are thinking about what Vattasseril thiumeni thought 100 years ago..welcoem follow our footsteps

Archangel Gabriel said...

respected geo ,
i agree with you about orthodox dress code ..but you guys are an independent group right saying that you have no connection to arab christianity....then why are u still sticking to the so called arab christians dress code...design one for yourselves.By saying that all orthodox have similar dresscode, you are contradicting your own ( i mean blogs of orthodox followers)statement

regards

B said...

Americayile Theethose Methrachanum parivaaravum 1 laksham dollarum kondu poyi palarkkum koduthu, oru virunnum sangadippichu kaaryam nadathi. Athil arhathayillatha kore alkkarkku chevalier yum kitti. Nammude bhadhrasana aasthanagal kandu mohichu orikkalum nadakkathillatha oru patriarchal center inte peril oru tharakkallum ideechu medichu. Theethose Methrachante kootukaar kore peru Thomas Pradhaman Bavayude peril manja pathrangal polum naanikkunna vidhathil kore lakhu lekhakalum erakki. Athu ezhuthiyavante kayyum odinju veettil irikkuvaanu ennu naattil samsaaram. Paavam Nicholovos thirumeniye purathu chaadikkan purakil kalicha aalanu ee pazhaya Aby ramban. Kaaryam nedi methraan aayi kazhinjappol evideyellam vivaha koodashayil sambandikkan vanna nammude bahumaanapetta vaideekare apamaanichu vittu. Enthaayam American sabha pathrikkeesinu polum thoduvan melatha reethiyil aanu. Kandu padikku.

sampariyarathu said...

Dear Gabriel
There is No Supreme Head in Christ Church on earth! Christ is the Head of Church!All Apostles and Prophets are stones of Foundations!Moreover St.Paul clearly said that Cephas,James and Johm were considered as Pillars of early Church(Gal,2:9)>therefore Antioch Partriarch has no supremacy At All!
Again You Call him Prince!in What sense He is a Prince?can you tell the Biblical reference to that Word! We have already(earlier) explained about Antiochean robes and liturgy in This forum and there is no need to mention here again! Dear Gabriel you should know That Antioch is not Christ?Christianity Did not originate at Antioch! you read carefully the bible especially Acts of Apostles then you will understand What Is Antioch,Who are Apostles/disciples who were earlier Christians etc!Also note that Your Antioch had no place in history of Malankara prior to A.D.1599!

Reni said...

Is there some power struggle in USA between Patriarch and Thomas Pradhaman?

Geo said...

Dear Mr. Gabriel

Regarding the salutation of "Catholicose": HH Zakka 1 ordained Thomas 1 as a Mapriano as you people claim. it is clearly mentioned in the "adhikarapathram" that he was ordained as mapriano only. If you get time just go through that paper. it is nowhere mentioned the term catholicose. then how can he use the salutation as Catholicose. then jacobite faction is disobeying their so called prince or king or head of the church.

Reni said...

British rulers brought English to India. We learned English from them. Eventually we sent them off. Did they ask us to return their ENGLISH langauge?

Antioch were in India for a couple of centuries. We have learned many things from them. But all these were not originally owned by Antioh. It was brought to Antioch by many church fathers from Syriac, Greek or Hebrew. Bible says You GOT FREE, Therefore Give it free.

WHENEVER WE SPEAK ABOUT SYRIAC Antioch dovotees in India have a misconception that THEY ARE THE OWNERS AND CREATORS OF SYRIAC. I request them to study the history of Syriac, the liturgy language which is very close to Armaic. Syriac was accepted as liturgy language in many centres including Antioch. It developed independendtly in many places. It was brought to India by St Thomas. There were Jews in India even before St Thomas came to India. The too must have had Syriac (a form of Armaic) with them.

Antioch people are not owners of Syriac language. Arabs, the children of Ishmael, learned Syriac just like we learned it.

Christian tradition grew from the contributions of many church fathers in many places. Jacobites, don't think that this dress, liturgy, Syriac language, tradiitons, faith all originated in Antioch and brought to India by Antioch people. They all originated in various CHURCH CENTRES. May be you peopel might say BIBLE ALSO WAS BROUGHT BY ANTIOCH PEOPLE. Fortunately, it was in Greek. Otherwise you would have taught taht Anticoh wrote the Bible

Because you people taught by half baked crooks who do not think independently thse misconceptions are engraved in their minds. It will take decades of education to clear their minds.

I THINK WE SHOULD PUBLISH SOME GOOD BOOKS ON THIS ISSUE. Reeducating these ensalved Jacobites are very imprtant for building a national Church. Making a FILM ON THE TOPIC ALSO CAN BE CONSIDERED. I hope our Church leaders will look into it. Can we get anybody to sposnsor it.

This is very important becauae ALMOST ALL JACOBITES HAVE THIS MISCONCEPTION

Ravi George said...

LET US WELCOME THE PRODIGAL SON OF MALANKARA

We should sympathise with HB Thomas Thirumeni for aligning with Antioch. We had prior experience about the nature of the people in Antioh leadership.

Though we were at loggerheads with Thomas Bava for splitting the church, now Thirumeni is realsing the facts like the PRODIGAL SON.

Now HB needs our support to fight the Antiochan hegemony. we should try our best to pack off Antioch for ever from Malankara.

It is due to the submissive mentality in our Indian blood that a section of our people followed these people. Now they are realising the FACTS. let us help them.

Why don't Antioch first of all limit his own jurisdiction to Arab countries and build church there?

mohanmathew said...

Antochian devotees in Malankara call HH Patriach as Prince. From the Bible we know on Prince of Peace who is Christ. Patriarch belivers have been taught such non-sense about Antichean Church head.

If at all any name 'Prince' given to Antioch, it can be Prince of war because they are responsible for all the wars in Malankara.

One evil minded Patriarch said "Thomas is not even a priest"

if he ever want peace in Malankara keep out these patriarchs. THERE 5 people who call themselves are Antiochean patriarch. Zacha bava created one maphraiano who call himself as Catholicose an then there this self named catholicos for Malankara Romo syrians. Rome made it clear that they have not goven Catholicose because it is not their tradition.

So foreigners are the casue of all troubles in Malankara

mohanmathew said...

In 2002, when Thomas Thirumeni was ordained by Patriarch Zakka as the Mapheryono, the issue of jurisdection had not come. then HH aimed to destroy the Orthodox Christians who fought for Indian faith.

This issue cropped up later afer THEETHOS Thirumeni who is called as the Archbishop of the Malankara Archdiocese of Syriac Orthodox Church in North America started reporting directly the Patriarch, ignoring Thomas Pradhaman.

Now the struggle has resulted in chopping the wings of Thomas Thirumeni who struggled so much for keeping the Jacobites under patriarch. This clearly proves the Antocheans are a thankless class of people who have only self-interests.

Antioch never bothers what will happen if their decsions results in spoiling church. Their interests is only getting money even if the church is finished. NOW THE BEST TREATMENT THAT CAN BE GIVEN TO ANTIoch is limiting their authority to Arabian land only. Hope it will happedn sooner

Geo said...

Dear Ravi

These people will not change their attitude. Thomas mapriano understand the things better. but he is successful in brain washing his people. When the final verdict came from Supreme court, things were clear for him, but his intention was to become a catholica at any cost. so there was only one solution for them, ie. to raise the slogan of "Anthiocia Bhakthi". Their people doesn't know the meaning of that, but still they raise that "ammaye marannalum anthiocia marakkilla". what a foolish statement. Instead of "Daiva Bakthi" they have only "anthiocia bakthi". Anthiocia was only a place name in present Turkey. now Anthiocia is nowhere in world map. Even the Patriarch centre was shifted to Damascus (syrian capital) due to the non existence of Christians in old anthiocia. but these people still follows the slogan of Anthiocia bakthi. that was only a third rate political game by Thomas mapriano and his bishops at the time of supreme court's final verdict. Muvatupuzha Athanasious Thirumeni was also behind there for framing this strategy. Just go through Athanasious thirumeni's article in his diocese magazine. Thomas maprian and his bishops succeeded in keeping his people with some terroristic mentality. Only God can change them.
i know some of their churches in kandanadu & ankamaly dioceses where these people, especialy their kefa members store ""weapons"" in their offices. weapons in the sense (to suite their culture) like, stones, iron rodes, chillipowder etc.-- the outcome of Anthiocia bhakthi.

Ebenezar said...

DearMohn Mathew
It is not foreigners now make troubles in Malankara. The Malankara Nazranikal who have their masters in abroad are making troubles as they are known/called as Arch bishop,Mafriana by their masters!.In Malankara they are Self styled leaders called themselves as Catholoicose under the throne of St.Peter!They are not St.Thomas Christians as they are Christians in Malankara under Syrian Partriarch and Pope of Rome!

Manu said...

Recently there were photos of new ordained IOC Bishops who visited Holy land. Under the link it was written that ur bishops celebrtaed holy qurban in syrian church.I just have a doubt that if IOC is againt Syrian christian then y are celebrating Qurbana in our church.

Ravi George said...

Now the JACOBITE CHURCH has just tuned into a BHADRASANAM. Their American cousins are in another Bhadrasanam, Europe cousins wil be yet another Bhdrasanam, and finally Guld wil be one more Bhdraasanam. ALL THE DIOCESES UNDER PATRIARCH

KASHTAM... Swantham rajyatthu abhimaaniyayi jeevikkatthavarkku varunna gathikedu kandu padikkatte ellavarum.

Swantham Sleehaye marannu vallavarkkum Jay vilikkan iniyenkilum aarum pokaruthu.

Paruamal pally muricchu Patriarchese bavakku kazhccha vekkunnna karyam ithinte velichathil kanoo

Chandichayan, Puthuppally said...

Mone Manu,

Antiochian Sabhayum, Malankara Orthodox Sabhayum Sahodharee Sabhakalanu Ennu Monodu Ithuvare Aarum Paranju Thannittille. Athyavasyam Sabhayekkurichu Padichittu Comment Ezhuthu.
Pl. Visit
http://www.malankaraorthodox.tv/Books/mosc%20books.htm
for Books about Orthodoxy and Malankara Sabha.

Ravi George said...

Dear Manu

There is a MIsCONCEPTION among jacobits that Antochean Syrain church owns all Syriac worldwide.

Syriac which is clse to Armaic (Mother toungue of Jesus) devloped as a liturgy language in many places. It was spread in the East jut like Latin in the west. the language was there in India (broughty by jews settled here and also by St THomas), Jerusalem, antioch and many other palces where Christinity spread.

It was not Antich whcih brought Syriac to us. In jerusalem too therewas Syriac. Just becasuse Antioch use Syrian in their name DO NOT THINK THAT THEY OWN SYRIAC everywhere.

mohanmathew said...

@RAVI GEORGE

YOU ARE Right.

So we shoul dnot call jacobite sabha. Becasue they are only a DIOCESE.(bahdraasanam)

JACOBAYA BADRAASANAM or KERALA BHADRASANAM OR INDIA BHADRAASANAM

Jigme said...

It is amazing to me the number of loud-talking, simple-minded, fools that exist. You all know NO bishop has authority. I would never accept their "authority" - as I know only God alone has authority. Whether we are "Malankara Orthodox Syriac" or "Syriac Orthodox" or any other man-made concoction of these words, it is ultimately meaningless to argue over notions of antiquity. No bishop has authority over anyone. They are our shepherds and should be leading us to green and safe pastures. Parumala Thirumeni, pray for all of us - the weak and despicable but especially pray that the shepherds of our Malankara Syrian faithful -- will accept the Light of our Savior and share it with the lambs rather than bringing us to slaughter. Amen.

Avarachayan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Avarachayan said...

ചാണ്ടി അച്ചായന് അറിയില്ലേ പാത്രിക്കീസ്‌ ബാവ എന്നാല്‍ ആകാശങ്ങളിലിരിക്കുന്ന ഞങ്ങളുടെ ബാവായെന്നും,ശീമ എന്നാല്‍ സ്വര്‍ഗ്ഗ രാജ്യം എന്നും ആണ് ഈ മണ്ടന്മാര്‍ പഠിച്ചു വച്ചിരിക്കുന്നത്. ശീമാക്കാര്‍ക്ക് ഒരു ചിന്ന വീടാണ് ഇന്ത്യയിലെ യാക്കോബായ കൂട്ടര്‍. ഈ കൂട്ടരുടെ അന്തോക്യ പ്രേമവും, കുഴച്ചിലും, ശീമാക്കാരെ കാണുമ്പോള്‍ ഉള്ള ഒരു രോമാഞ്ചവും മറ്റും കാണുമ്പോള്‍ -------- ഹോ, ദേവദാസി സംബ്രതായത്തിന്റെ മറ്റൊരു പതിപ്പ് ആണെന്നല്ലേ മനസ്സിലാക്കേണ്ടത്?

rajan said...

Valenthi Nilkunna Gabriele,

May I request you to tell your leaders to teach you?

1. A saint visited The First Bishop of our Church Jerusalem? Who was that First Bishop and the visied saint have some ill thought about the royal dress he was wearing? What does the holy spirit anaswered to him.
(Most of the St.Thomas Christians claims that we are brahmins by origin and becomes followered of Christ as St. Thomas baptised them. (Imagine a poojari's dress code) St. Thomas Christians did not followed the Hindu rites as it is idol worship. We follows what the apostel has handed over to the ordained bishops of Maliankara.

2. When did the followers of Christ got the label "Christians".
(are they teaching you that Christ have followers from that time only and Lord's chosen Apostles and the followers who received the Holy Spirit on pentecost day were idle) Only the Antiocian established the "Chruch")

3. Why you use Malayalm in the Holy Qurbana. Use only the Suriyani. It is better so that you may even not understand what does the preiest prays and be in dark as you likes always to embraze blindness.

4. What is the meaning of Petress.
What does Paul says " I live in... not...." Further the simily of "Faithfull followers" Ask them to teach abount this simily Jesus taught.(But they teach you that in Peter I will build the Church)

6. A simily tuaght about His mother and brothers and when Mother and his brothers want to see Him? (But Mother Mary stands first for our intercession) Then who are they?

Jesus himself said all things are taught in Similies so that even if they hear will not hear it and understand it and ..........."

Manu said...

Mone chandy

The current vicar of my jacobite church was a former secretary to one bishop in kerala(Jacobite) while he was deacon . He told me that whenever ur bishops (IOC)visit holyland & they need to celbrate Holy Qurbana they take the permisson of our syrian orthdox church in holy land there the church leader call our jacobite bishops in kerala . its only when HB catholicose bava or HG gregorious thirumeni gives permission that ur bishops enter our church.


If u do not respectour HH Ignatius Zakka 1 then WHY THE HELL Do UR bhisops try to enter the church which r under HH bava...



Its the mercy shown by our catholica bava that ur bishops r celebrating qurbana there because he do not beleive in tit for tat.

u told that syrian church is a sister church then why don't consider jacobite church as a sister church which is under HH Patriach of Antioch.


Moreover if u consider syrian orthdox church as sister church then u do not have atequates to respect the leaders of sister church

Ebenezar said...

Dear Manu
IOC isa member of Oriental orthodox Church!But Jacobite Church is Only a Part of Syrian Orthodox Church!Again IoC is not against Syrian Orthodox Church!It Was Syrian Orthodox Church Heirarchy who created the Division In Malankara and Syrian Partrtriarch through his Bull termed IOC as enemies!
Churches In Jerusalem/Holy Land are being used By Oriental orthodox Churches to Celeberate Holy Eucharist when Church Heirarchy of Oriental Church visit Holy Land!

Ravi George said...

Mohan

Avasaanam Patriarchese Bava paranju ivar (Jacobaayakkar) oru bhadraasnam maathramanennu.

Shariyaanu.. kaashu nokkiyaanu Antiochiakkar Bhadrasanangal undakkkiyathu.

1. Jacobaya Bhadraasanam

2. Amercian Bhadraasanam

3. Europe Bhadraasanam

4. Gulf Bhadraasanam

Athil Jacobaaya Bhadraasanamthinte mathram thirumeni (Maphriano) aanu nammude priyappetta Thomas I Bava

Mattullavar Thomas Bavyodu thulyamayi nilkkunnavarum.

IVARUUDEYELLAM ADHIKAARIYAANU PRINcE Zacha Bava.

Philip said...

Dear Manu,
You are right. Last time when I went with one Orthodox Achen because Sleebaachen tour was too full and this Orthodox Achen charged me less. We went to our Church in Jerusalem, the SOC Achen asked the IOC Achen, have you got permission from Indian Catholicose. He said yes, then our SOC Achen asked to show proof. He had no proof. Immediately our SOC Achen called our Thomas Bava, the line was engaged. Then he called our Gregorios Thirumeni. Thirumeni said I can't give you permission without consulting Thomas Bava. So we all stood outside the church waiting for the permission. After two hours, Thomas Bava seeing the missed call from Jerusalem (Bava used to get call from there always because he needs to give permission for IOC people to enter our church and conduct Qurbana), called. Then I told I will talk. Only after that Bava permitted the troop inside the church. You know our Thomas Bava, has got good control in Jerusalem and the IOC people always talk bad about our Thomas Bava. These IOC people going to Holy Land and taking blessing from our Church there without giving anything to our Bava. How nice he is permitting all.

Reni said...

To become a patriarch teh candidate to be well versed in Arabbic. But no need to know Malaayalam in spite of the majority are Malayalees.

Oh!.. Ther is no need since our people respect more if someone do not know Malayalam and also looks wheatich even if nothing is in his head.

Ithinu oru mattam ennenkilum varumo?

Reni said...

Itharam karyangal discuss cheyyunnathu swargothodu adutthirikkunna Antiochiayayil Sahikkumo aavo?

rajan said...

Dear Mr. Ravi George,

How we can forget about the suffering our H.Divanasious has to suffer in 1876 onwards subsequent to the visit of thier patriarch at that time.The strategy he did divide and rule. The concept of independent bhadrasanam. He tried to influence the newly ordained Bishops too at that time. But Parumala thirumeni also defended against it.
Now the present patriarch is also doing the same "Sambhavami yuge yuge"

Varghese Mathai

rajan said...

Kochene Manu,

.....enthariyunnu vibho?
Aradhana kramam onninum mattam illa. Viswasangalkku mattam illa. malluvinte idungiya manasse avideyum prathibhalichu.
Nannayi pakshe.
Evide adhikaram panam athanu ........

Reni said...

Antiochian dovotees teach that we in Malankara have been under ever since Christianity began here and therfore we have to be under Antioch for ever.

FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT, let us take that we have been like that. It is tiem that we break it for the sake of Indian Christianity.

If they want relationship with us and our future generations, IT SHOULD BE BASED ON EQUALITY.

We should not hesitate to BURN their sthathikons because we have the right stathikon given to us by our OUR FATHER ST THOMAS.

We do not accept the stathikon given by Arabs patriach. Let him give slavery stathikons to his own people in his own land who knows ARABIC well.

Ravi George said...

Some namesake 'Indians' who are slaves of ARABS say that proud Indians need permission of their Arab masters to woship at some particular place.

I do not have the facts. Why should we go to such a place? God blessing more if we go to a particular place is all against what has been taught in the Bible. I request my brothers PLEASE DO NOT SELL OURSEVES, do not go to such palces where we need to beg.

But I know one thing.. The people who go to Jerusalem make a visit to HH Patriarch's aramana. There instruction is give that everybody shoudl pay $20 to Patriarch. IS IT TRUE?

Ravi George said...

I have heard that Muslims who go to Mecca will get some special blessings. It is in their faith.

Is there a commandment that all Christians mut go to Jerusalem and also should attend prayer at a place owned by the Antochean Patriarch?

I HAVE NOT GONE TO JERUSALEM NOR DO I INTEND TO GO IN THE NEAR FUTURE. Even if I go there it will be more of a historical tour for me. Christ said "if two or three people meet in my name I will be in the midst" I think this promise is valid in Kerala also. So I do not need to go to Jerusalem and worship at 'their' spot in order to be blessed. UNDERSTAND Mr Manu & Mr Philip?

NATIONAL PRIDE IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME. I AM VERY PROUD CITIZEN OF INDIA and will remain so. India has never tried enslave any nation on this earth. There is Hinduism in other nations. But have Indian Hindus ever tried to ensalve them?

MATTU RAJYANGALIL POYI AVARE ADIMAKALAAKKAN AGRAHIKKUNNA EE VIDESHI CHRISTIANIKAL PARAMA ALPANMAAR AANU< IVARONNUM CHRISTUVINULLAVAR ALLA>

Now spirituality has more master businessmen than any other fields. People will good spiritual sense do not fall into such traps. The so called 'staticons' of these foreign bishops are really traps to enslave poor people in countries like India. SAY NO TO SUCH STATICONS. We have CHRIST GIVEN FREEDM TO worship and go near to OUR MASTER LORD and seek his mercy. No need to go after bishops who come with documents selling us to FOREIGNERS.

I hope our stand is clear. Manu, Philip, KNOW THAT INDIANS WILL HAVE THIS STAND IN FUTURE.

We do NOT need the blessings of your Antochean masters. People in their own land do not need them. Then why shoud we?

Ravi George said...

In fact most people in the Antochean culture are not as deeply spiritual as the Indian Christians. But our former generation of Indian Christians who were more innocent thought these people are from HEAVEN and gave them HIGH HONOUR. But actually they did not deserve it.

Now in tghis generation, people are getting better chance to know them.

I have heard Arab bishops as "Bhayankara sukhimanmar" Is it true? Any how they have NOT taken any pain to struggle in Malnkara.

Ravi George said...

Dear Mr Philip

DO I REQUIRE A VISA FROM ANTIOCH TO VISIT Jerusalem?

Please inform thank you

Manu said...

Hi Mr Ravi,

Iam not asking that whether u r insterted in going to holy land or not.. My question is that WHY the HELL ur bishops are entering our churches

Philip said...

Dear Ravi,
You can enter our Church in Jerusalem if you say that you belong to other church or even other religion. We have kept one person from Malankara to check suspicious people. But if you say that you are member of IOC, our Achen will call the guard and you will be taken to custody if you don't have permission from our Thomas Bava. Only after our Thomas Bava says to relase you will be released otherwise you are in trouble.
Now with regard to Visa requirements, I need to check this with Thomas Bava. May be if you belong to IOC you may need it, not for we people who belive in Antioch.

Philip said...

Dear Manu,
Is there something really wrong if these IOC Bishops or Achens enter our churches. Have they got some infectious disease? May be you don't want them to got to hell. Yes, I got it.You really care these IOC Bishops. Don't keep company with them. They don't give any donations or gifts to our Patrikiz bava, but they use our dress, our language, our prayer books, our church, our food. We need to get this patented. Even our girls, I finding it too difficult to get married with a girl because they say that I belong to the the Society church. All our marriage aged girls I find are nurses and I don't want them to be my wife. They are trouble.

Ebenezar said...

Dear Manu
The Churches In Holy Land are open to all visitors!The Churches are Not belonging to Malankara Jacobite Society in Holy Land!MOSc Bishops are oriental orthodox family Bishops and they can visit any oriental orthodox church in Holy Land!if the owners of church in Holy Land did not have any problem for MOSC bishops entering there,why did you get annoyed or bothered yourself!

BIJU said...

Nattukaarai pattikunna Thomas Mapriyante Muthala Kanneru Ippol Evidai Poyi.Pinnai Cheenju Naarunna Vishwasa Samrakshakan Undaloo ( Krishthiyani Nokkan Polum Madikunna) .Evidai poyi Ippol.Alla athinte ahadi yanthrathinnu pulichu poyyo.Avarudai Yancha Kaarundallo,anakam onnum illaallo.Anthiochayikku jai Vilikuvan. Bharathathil Pirannavanu Bharathathinoodu Kooru Vennam.allathavan Bharathathinte Dhrohi

Ravi George said...

Dear Manu

I believe you belong to one of those Syrian Christian families that claim its heritage to the beginning of Christianity in India. (When I say Syrian I did not mean member of Antiochian Church. There are churches which used Syriac as their liturgy language who had no connection with Antioch)

Myself being a member of one of the branches of Pakolomattom family believe to be so. So we all inherited Christian faith from our forefathers. If we go back to the first century, our forefathers either belonged to traditional Hindu faith or one of those Jews who had come from the Middle East.

We all believe the faith was brought to India by Apostle Saint Thomas who was killed in this land.

From the beginning of Christianity till this date so much events have taken place. But nothing can be compared to the beginning of Christian faith in India. THAT WAS THE U-TURN just like ABRAHAM's in the Bible. So in fact we had a father of believers in India.

In late centuries, our fathers came into contact with many people in the East, West and..Places like that. We had learned from everybody. We had friendships, fights and many other experiences. BUT NONE OF THESE EVENTS SHOULD helplessly spoil our identity.

In fact the churches all over the world pass through this phase. But we have to be truly Indians and be faithful to Christ too. God do not intend us be Greek or Roman or Jew or Arab because we follow HIM.

You believe the particular church in Jerusalem (I do no what Church) belong to you and we have no right there. FINE. This is based on your thinking that you are a member of an archdiocese which is under an ARAB church, officially titled Syrian Church. But if you read the constitution of this Church you will easily find THAT IT IS AN ARAB CHURCH that do NOT treat other members as Equals in nationality. This is similar to the British colonialist ion. The British said all the people in their colonies were under The British king . But were they equal citizens?


Let me ask you: What about your Indian identity? Will your children for generations and generations be under this people? If you say YES, I can easily predict that it is IMPOSSIBLE. PEOPLE IN EVERY NATION HAVE A TENDENCY TO GO BACK TO THEIR CULTURAL AND NATIONAL IDENTITY AT SOME STAGE OF THEIR HISTORY. We are simply ahead of you. You will follow us sooner or later. Even your Church leaders in Antioch know well this fact. They know at some stage they will lose all their people in India.

See the events taking place in the Jacobite archdiocese. (Now onward I use the words Diocese because that was the correct term I found in the Antioch church to describe your people in Kerala.)

This power struggle between HB Thomas I and the Patriarch is for obvious reasons and will result in more people splitting away from Antioch. You may try to bury it under the carpet for some time but it will come out more forcefully. If you are able patch it up it will again appear as some thing else. You wait and watch. That's all I can say

Ravi George said...

But Philip, Manu

Patriarch says Thomas Thirumeni's jurisdictionis milited to India only. Does it cover Jerusalem too?

Next, Please ensquire with Thomas Bava regarding his permssion. By theby where is his Embassy/Visa office?

Powerful man indeed!.. HA HA HA HA

Malankara Orthodox TV said...

http://www.soc-wus.org/

Ee Site Ippol Kittunnilla. Puthenkurisukar Parathippettennu Thonnunnu.

Innocent said...

Ravi,
What is your problem with Manu & Philip. We are strong believers of Antioch and only thru Antioch you can go to heaven. If you are serious to go to Holy land I can talk to Sleeba Achen. If you don't know the power of our Thomas Bava, you are mistaken. Bava's mother got vision when Bava was young. This was told to us by Bava. Not by Bava's mother, because she told not to tell. But Bava told and we are faithful to him. We don't have any issue with other church using our dress and language. Because they like our Bava. You don't like him so we don't want you to use anything of us. So give that thing back and say Sorry. I don't have to tell you what happens to people who work against Thomas Bava. Even if Supreme court says he is not going to listen if it is not going to be on his side. I am serious. Antiochyaye marakoola!

varughese said...

Why is not easy to come and it some time come with a prize after decades of cooprative efforts.why can' we create a strong forum towards that with good intenion.I think the atmoshere may change.Only think, evry one should not strat making arguent/ statements in public.Afterall, we both fraction are brothers in Christ.
thomas/uk

Ravi George said...

Dear Innocent

You are too innocent that you are ignorant about elemenatry Christinity.

I can only laugh at your statement that only through Antioch one can go to heaven. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ..

YOu are faithful to Thomas Bava. But your cousin in US is not faithful to Thomas Bava, he is faithful only to Theethos Thirumeni and through him Antioch Patriarch, bUt not to Thomas Thirumeni

Thomas Bava is not bothered whether you are faithful , he is only bothered about your US cousin.

I know your Thomas Bava. I also know that he doesn't obey law of the land (as you said it). He had sent a registered letter to his own Catholicose Paulose Thirumeni not to enter the Churches of Angamali. He will not obey Christ also. Will he obey Antioh patriarch...? Let us watch now.... Ammaye Marannalum Antiochiaye marakkoooooola

Ravi George said...

Friends

You know what innocent belives? ANTIOCH IS GOD!

These people are living in the 17th century...An\tioch want thse tyoes of innocent to shout KEEEYYY JAAAAAY.

When when it comes to status and approval thse peopel are only a Bhdraasanam under Thomas Bava. America, Europe and Guld will be directly under Patriarch. It is just like Christ carrying the poor wounded lambs on his shoulder.

mohanmathew said...

A slight change in slogan from Sept 15 onwards (after the synod met in Damascus)

Old slogans changed to:

Please use this slogan only:
ANTIOCHEA NJAMGALE MARANNAALUM NJNGAL ANTIOCHIAYAE MARAKKOOOLA.

JAAKOBAAYA ATHIBHADRAASANAM VIJAYIKKATTE
THOMAS THIRUMENI NADU BHARIKKUM
THEETHOS THIRUMENI USA BHARIKKUM

SWATHANTHRYAM THULAYATTE
MASTERS ARABIKAL KEEEEE JAAAAY
ARABI YAJAMAANANMAARE
NJANGAL ENNUM DAASANMAR
AMERICA EDUTTHOLOOO
EUROPPUM KONDUPOKKO
GULF NJANGALKKU VENDE VENDA
MASTERS ARABIKAL KEEEEE JAAAAY
Thomas Thirumeni zindabad
Theethos thirumeni zindabad

mohanmathew said...

Innocnt said: "We are strong believers of Antioch and only thru Antioch you can go to heaven."


dear Innocent, There are 5 bishops who claims as Patriarchs. It is only the MERCY of the Orthodox Christians of India that there is not a 6th Patriarch. Understand?

mohanmathew said...

Creative Writing Competition:

INI THOMAS BAVA ENTHU CHEYYUM?

Ravi George said...

AVARACHAYAN, chandichayan


Oru Bhadraasanam enna sthanam Arabikal Yakkobaayakkarkku kodutthu. Athu kaninjaruliya bhgyam thane.

Oro Bhadrasanatthinum prathyekam Bharanaghatana undaakkamo?

Ravi George said...

Ini Thomas Thirumeni enthu cheyyum

1. Thomas Bava oru rebel Patriarchne Anthiokyayil vaazhikkum (ethenkilum velutha arabi mathiyallo)

2. Gulf, Europe, USA thudangiya bhadrasanamgal pirichhu vitum. The he would appoint vicars in churches that directly report to him.

3. He will construct a Diocese office just near to Theethos tirumeni. (just like teh new parumalapally)

Chandichayan, Puthuppally said...

Parumala Prasnam Onnu Moothittu Venam Parumalayile Roadil Kidannu Urulan Ennu Chinthichu Coorilos Methrachane Bava Erivu Kettunnu.

Ravi George said...

Parumala prashnam ano mootthathu atho Patriarchese Bava chirakarinjathu ano kooduthal prasnam ennu chinthicchu Thirumeni thaadikku thee pidiccha avasthayilaanu ippol

Avarachayan said...

കോതമംഗലതു ഉള്ള ഷോപ്പില്‍ നടുറോഡില്‍ കിടന്നു ഉരുളാന്‍ നാല് ചുവന്ന കുപ്പായം തയ്ക്കാന്‍ ഓര്‍ഡര്‍ കൊടുത്തിട്ടുണ്ട്‌. ഒന്ന് പരുമലയിലും, മറ്റുള്ളവ ദാമാസ്കസ്സിലെ റോഡിനു വേണ്ടിയും.

ഇപ്പോള്‍ പുതെന്‍ കുരിശില്‍ ഉരുളല്‍ ട്രെയിനിംഗ് തോമസ്‌ പ്രധാമന്റെ മേല്‍നോട്ടത്തില്‍ നടക്കുന്നു.

mathews daniel said...

mtv homepagil ittirukunna joc bishops photoyude moolayil valla thoopukaran undankil sanshayikanda athu thomachayana. Pakshe athinu polum arabikal sammathikathilla.

mohanmathew said...

Item 11 of jacobite constitution says that sabha property cannot be shared to anyone under any circumstances and nobody has the rigth for it.

Then how can they ask our church property to be divided as per majority?

St Thomas, the apostle of Christ, who brougt Christiaity to India, does not figure in this so called 'constitution' Ithupole 'pithrushoonyaraaya oru janatha' vere lokatthil kaanilla. Ivanokke Antiokyaayude vaalu pokki natakkanallathe onninum kollikkila.

They are truly slaves of Antioch (You know their mother was a SLAVE CALLED HAGAR). The Bible says they are like Kattu kazhuthakal.

But if you read about Antioch in this 'constitution', you will think they are sitting next to HEAVEN. These people have gone after them.

But in fact they are a sinking ship. Antioch church will vanish in thsi generaton itself. They think their people are moving to USA and West. But will their continue in this tradition in US? Very few will continue after two or three generations.

Jacobite Bhadraanam's constitutionmade interesting reading. I have one doubt:

It is clear from the Antochan synod taht Jacobites in India is only an ARCH diocese. Can every diocese have a constitutionof their own?

Ravi George said...

Actually thee Antochean chaps are clever. As per the so called 'constitution' of jacobite bhadraasanam these people ahev surrendered totally to Antioch. patriarch is God and these people are just slaves. SLAVES OF SLAVES. (Accordingto Bible Arabs' mother was Hagar, the slave of Sarah)

Ravi George said...

Most people in Malankara do NOT know that these people are Arabs. Generally people think they are born in Jerusalem and they are just like Jews.

I came to know about them only three years back.

Reni said...

Dear Friends

I noticed a few points from this 'constitution' of Jacobites

1. Only persons who have no reverence for their founder father can ignore his name

2. These peopel are madly in bondage of Antich, it seems, without any escape.

3.The only hope left for them is to quit this church as it is written that 1-7 cannot be amended.

4. If jacobite constitiionis total surrener, the Antocheans do not consider these poeple as their Equals

5. if you read their 'constitution' you will think it was St Peter who came to India and gave them Christian faith.

6. This slavery docuement is not at all honurabe for Indians


6.

NITHIN said...

http://catholicose.org/PauloseII/Catholicate.htm

sampariyarathu said...

Dear All
The Issue of Parumala was deliberately created By H.B.Thomas I group to divert the attention of their followers from Antiochean/syrian Universal synod or from recent synod meeting proceedings that Jacobites are not having problems with SOC in Damascus/or Patrtiarch!
Syrian Partriarch in Damascus is more than St.Thomas to Jacobites in Malankara!Their Father is Antioch Partriarch!
Years Back Communist Party In India used to say/chant like them
and everything for CPM was U.S.S.R or Lenin !Now we do'nt hear anymore from CPM chanting like that!Likewise malankara Jacobites are going to stop chanting for Antioch Partriarch very soon!

Innocent said...

May be there are 5 patriarchs in Antioch so what. Our Patriarch is the biggest. See last time he came to Kerala, what crowd. Bava want to come again and we all are waiting for that. He gives our people Chevaliar, commander and Bar Etho. This Bar Etho is special. Some foolish person was saying that Bar Etho in some language means useless person, but I don't think the person who got this Bar Etho is so. He is Dr. Babu Paul. I don't think he is useless. He is very close to Bava so Bava gave him special. He is not going to give this to anybody even if Thomas Bava says. People say that you need to pay to get this position. But I don't think so. Do you people have anything like that to give it to your people. So our church is big church because we give good positions to our faithful. They may be giving Kaimuthu to Bava because they are happy to get that position. So what don't envy them. Ours is the only church that is called Universal, yours is just Indian so again we are big. Big is best.

Ravi George said...

Sam

YOU are right. To CPM, CPI members and leaders, China and Russia were Holy lands and communist party leaders were like Gods and Saints. But see what happed now...Could anyone imagine before?

Take any history book and see..Kerala Christians were called Marthoma Christianikal.. WHY???????

I read by a book published by Mathrubhoomi Books. The title is Kerala Pazhama by Dr Herman Gundert, teh German missionary who made the first diectionary in Malayalam. The book says a lot about Christian traditions long back, even before the perod of Portugese in kerala. . He wrote the biggest Christian festival long back was that of St Thomas. There was no other big festival in Malankara. How could a protestant missioanry who doesn't care about saints say that? He was only telling the facts

There are many other books about the tradition of Christians of Kerala and their connection with St Thomas

Read the 'constitution' of Jacobites. These peopel ignore 1500 years of history of Malankara. These people ignore their fathers. Pithrushoonyamaya paripadi...

St peter founded Church in Anticoh..What have we Indians to do with that?

Let me ask Jacobite Bhadraasnam leaders: Did St Peter found his christianity in India?

Anticohean people cam to India only after Coone cross oath . Even Catholics in India have a longer history in India than these Antocheans. Catholics started with the coming of Vasco da Gama. These Antochean people were in India decades after...THE TRADITION ININDIA WAS THAT OF ST THOMAS and NOT ST PETER

Jacobites are so much pround about Arabs' Christianity. The Bible says a lot about these tribes of Ishmalites.

Are these Jacobites immigrated to India from Arab land? May be that is why they don't have brain.

The Bible says Ishmaelites are like wild donkeys. The Bible slaves Hagar delivers slaves (Adimakale prasavikkunnu. AVARE FOLLOW CHEYYUNNA, WORSHIP CHEYYUNNA IVAR

ADIMAKLAUDE ADIMAKAL AANU.. VALIYA ADIMAKAL.
ithu thiricchariyunna oru generation Jacobites undaakumo?

In the 'constitution' it is written that 1-7 points cannot be amended. Therefore I exhort jacobite believers to study the Christian traditions in Kerala and
come out of this jacobite bhadraasanam which ignore 1500 years traditions and faith in Malankara.

You were misled and changed faith to join Kepha's margam which is not for we Indians. Jesus sent Thoasm to India to spead his world and found his Church. It is Christ's

Church, not Kepha's ot Thomas's.


I suggest that we should publish good books on St Thomas and the traditions in Malankara. We should think of makingh a good film

These Jacobite's tradition starts from the perid after Koonan Cross oath. See how fortuante we are becasue our Constitution startrs from the very beginning of Christinity

here.

REFUSING ST THOMAS (MESSENGER of Christ) is like Refusing the ONE who sent him. Christ said it when he sent his disciples.

Antioch preaches that St Thoasm was not a priest. Will Christ send a person without authority to India?

Our Charithram says Thomas anointed priests and bishops. Who was right? St Thomas or the Antochean Patriarch?

Decide for yourself

Ravi George said...

Dear Innocent

A couple of months a person in Jacobite church died. A businessman. He was Bar Itho..Check for yourself. See your Viswasamakrakshkan.

Your HH Bava will sell this BAR ITHO to anyone who gives him money. In fact most of these chavliers, commanders are corrupt people who either donated money or immoral politicians wanted by the church to do illegal activities. They have nothing to do with Christ. If I am not rigt verify a few commaaders or chavalliers.

Mathrubhoomi Weekly published a LETTER WRITTEN BY FR DARLEY EDAPPANGATTIL (a prominent Jacobite Priest) regarding the corruption in the Jacobite Church in issuing Chevellier, Commander, Brigadier.T Mathrubhoomi weekly issue dated 2009 June 21-27 .

If you have doubt Call up Mathrubhoomi office and check Telephone number is 0495-2765381

Fax : 0495 -2760138

Readers please verify

mohanmathew said...

Look at our friend Innocent

Is he not an innocent faithful of Jacobite Bhadraasanam who follow their cunnning leaders with pure mind?

In fact the vast majority of peope in the Jacobite Bhadraasanam are like that.

rajan said...

Dear Mr. Innocent,
(Regret I will not wish to call you Ignorent even though your self and your companions postings conclued so. Ennal Sahoodarane angne vilichal athu papam anu)

Your statement "Our Patriarch Bava is Big."
Kindly study St.Mathew Ch.20V 20-28
Do you mean He is Big "the rulers of Heathern" Royal Prince. As I respect all the ordained I do not wish to term him so as Almighty will judge me.
But regarding Indian Sup Court verdict of 1934,
An humble request to you people to direct your "Sreshta Caholicos and your "Patriarch"(the biggest one and above almighty God according to you) to remove the Chapter Rom.13 from the Bible or else he is supposed to listen to listen and obey what St.Paul has taught the early roman chruch.Especially another spritual guidence he pointed out in verses 8-10.
About the apostels equal rights Almighty had authorised them to ordain the Bishops I had already posted a renowed theologians write up in my earlier comment. Coul you please hand it over to him as you are a daily visiter of His throne every day and part and parcel of Antioc.
(Regret my friends, I do not want to teach any layman as my knowedge is very limited)

Varghese Mathai-Akkanadan
Member of SGOC Sharjah

John Kashisha said...

Mzha paithappol Ottakathinu thla vakkan idam kodutha veettukarantey avastha paranju kettittunde. Avasanam veettukaaren purathum ottakam akathum. Mulamthuruthy sunnahados muthel kaanunna karyam. Kashta kaalathinu.Porchugees kaarude adeenathil ninnu rakshapeduvaan vilichuvaruthy. Annuthanney Pathros thrithiyen Sabhaye 7 thundamakki. oronnintey melum adhikarm sthapikkan shramichu. ennal sadhichilla. annumuthal ulla shrama mayirunnu valla vidhenayum pidichadakkuka. Sabha bhaasuran parishudha Vattasheril thirumeniyey polullaver kalaa kaalangalil parirakshakarayi ethi sabhayey kakkuvan divathi aashrayichu. Oduvil kes kalichunokki.1958 il ampey parajayapettappol Parishudha geevargees bhavaye ashleshichu karyam neydi. Suprim court ntey vidhi nyayam kaalaharnapett 12 varsham kazhinjappol nanjool pinneyum thala pokki. Aa nanjooliney sarpam akkunna pulaken maar ividey undallo. aver pinneyum 1995 ley suprim court vidhiye thakidam marichu puthiya sabha undakki. Puthiya bharana ghadanayum ennaal 1934 Bharana ghadana angeekaricha suprim court mugha vilakkeduthilla .Avasanam pazaya ottakathinidam koduthu.Puthen kurishu sammoham Purathaya thupole yayi. Athayathu nanjool yadhartha sarpm aayi. pulakaney vizhungan shramikkunnu. Iniyum avasaram undallo kee jai vilikkan vilicho. Ithu nerathey kanda deergha drish tikal kku oraayiram nanni. Daivam ellavareyum anumgrahikkattey.

mohanmathew said...

Pithaavu Puthrane ayacchu.

Puthrane sweekarikkunnvan pithaavine sweekariikkunnu.

Jesus sent an apostle to India as his messenger. THE ONE WHO RECEIVES ST THOMAS RECEIVES CHRIST.
Those Indians who refuses St Thomas refuses the ONE who sent him.

This message is for all the Jacobites who do not have a word about St Thomas in their so called 'constitution'. THIS CONSTITUTION WHICH REFUSES ST THOMAS IS NOT VALID BEFORE CHRIST> ST THOMAS ALSO WILL SIT IN HEAVEN And JUDGE.

(The stories and jokes which describes St peter only as the gate keeper of heaven is told by Westerens with vested interest.) READ THERE ARE 12 gates for HEAVEN each guarded by an apostle. (BOOK OF REVEALATIONS 21: 12-14) PETER DO NOT HAVE ANY SPECIAL SEAT.
The jacobites treatment of St THomas is condemnable. It was an evil mided selfish Patriarch who issued a kalpana that St Thomas is snot even a priest. IT IS A PERMANENT BLOT ON ANTIOCH THAT CANNOT BE WASHED AWAY. LET US ALL CONDEMN SUCH ANTI-CHRIST STATEMENT. It has come from the evil mind.

Innocent said...

Why are you people angry with Puliyeril uncle. If our Coorilose Thirumeni tells Thomas Bava, uncle can get Chevalier. If he was in our group he would have got that long before. I know there are lot of people in IOC who would like to get Chevaliers and Commanders. What is wrong? Even your late P.C.Abraham got one. But he didn’t disclose it. Let important people show allegiance to the Patriarch and there will be no problem, they all can get it. There is no limit. Once you become commander and Chevalier, you get lot of respect in public and people will come to you to take blessing as this position is conferred by our Patriarch. Unless you follow and believe in all what the Patriarch does, you will not be able to understand the importance of the Patriarch.

I am happy people like Puliyeril uncle are favoring us. Meanwhile, we will only agree to the first part of the suggestion. That is we will not have any problem in conducting the service at Parumala once in a month to begin with, later on when our people increase we need more. But the other part to let your people into Manarcad and Kothamangalam, that is not possible because you people don’t listen to our Patriarch. To us the Patriarch’s order is much above any court order. So don’t expect us to follow any orders unless the Patriarch says.

When you people had issues with making our Thomas Bava a Bishop, see what the Patriarch did, he made him one. Will any Bishop in your church do this? Even if he does not have education, he has good respect and public support than any other Bishop in Kerala. Your Bava said to your Achens not to conduct ‘Adipolli prayer meetings, how many are listening.

Now there is a Kalpana regarding our Parumala Pally, let us see how many of your Achen’s will read it in the Church. Whereas, see our Thomas Bava said not to have any relation with you people. Even if we get our sisters married to a Pentecost person that is fine, but when it comes to your group. We will say no. Even the brokers know that we don’t marry your people.

When CBI enquired into the Malankara Varghese case, they enquired with our Bava about what happened. He told them the truth. Now the CBI has closed the matter. This is why I am saying, what ever Bava is saying is true. You people no point in going to meet the Kodiyeri and Pinarayi. They are our people. Last time Patriarch came, Pinarayi very impressed and Bava wanted to give him Bar Etho, but he said no, that is why he was given only a Book as Gift. Otherwise he would have got one. Actually he is not lucky. If he would have got that position, he could have become next CM of Kerala and then we would have no problem. Any way even if Chandy becomes CM doesn’t matter. Our Thomas Bava very close to his family.

So my advise is simply listen to the patriarch and your problem will be over. See in our church. No problem. Whereas in your church, every where problems.

Now a days you see our Thomas Bava, he is becoming saintly. Thanks to MTV for putting the best picture of him on your site. See his beard is growing and color changing to white just like our

sampariyarathu said...

Dear Innocent
You are not innocent in real sense!What ever it may be Can you tell anything similar(title used to be given by your Holy Father in antioch) to "Chevalliar"from bible?
Jesus Christ never used to Give such honour to Anybody.The Apostles/Disciples never used to give such honour to those worked hard for the early church!Do you think these honour titles are Entry Pass to Heaven?Do you have any such biblical evidence?

Rather than wiriting/commenting baseless and irrevelant points here Everyday read Bible and study the word of God!
About Robes used by Mosc Priests,go back to centuaries before Antiocheans came in Malankara (A.D.1600)even before St.Thomas came in Malankara as We had Jews here,after that we had persian church relation(from A.D.52toA.D.1490) before Antioch relation. The dress was not borrowed from Antioch.Only the Cap(thoppi)
Mosc priests use are from antioch/syrian tradition representing arab appearance!
The current dress of Our Kerala?malayalee men are not Indian origin.
The Shirts/Pants(trousers) and vests,underwear that we use are from European Dress(english make)Are you Going to leave them and dress like primitive Kerala people used to wear like Indian Tie(Kaupeenam)and Thorthu or advanced Dothi(Veshti mundu) and Chatta like Shirt(uduppu)?What we use on web to communicate mostly English are you goint to Patent/Trademark use it?
The Syriac language also not brought by Antioch here.Malankara had relation with Persia and East syriac was in use before A.D. 1600.
The west syriac language and robes came in Malankara afterA.D. 1685 with arrival of Mar Ivanios who came here with Mar Yeldho Baselios!
All these are already elaborated in this forum/blogs earlier!Your Antioch relation has only 300 years history in Malankara!

rajan said...

Dear readers,

Now i sensed who is Innocent.
In every words the writer seems to be a real orthodox person and he want to establish that what ever they are doing is foolishness, like an innocent child. All his statements got another meaning also.
Clever man yes I do agree "If our patriarch say Defy Almighty God and worship me" We will obey because he is big. Poor Jaicobites.

Keep on continuing your postings to bafool these Jaicobite people.

The real personality I am very much regreted as I could not sense you in the begining as your intension is to make these people bafoons.

Varghese Mathai-Akkanadan
Member SGOC Sharjah

Ravi George said...

Innocent

I had a good laughter after reading yur stuff.

We have no problem if Pulieri uncle or anybody receive any title from patrairch. We know these are useless things sold for money and as 'karyasadhyatthinu upakaara smarana'

ALL THIS PROVES HOW CORRUPTION HAS OVERTAKEN THE Antiochean FAITH> Velithanne vilavu thinnunnu.

In the Christian world, you can find church leadership making an effort to conrol the faith erosion, but the noticeable thing about ANTIOCH Church is that leadership is ADIMUDI CORRUPT anennanu.

This Bar Ethoa, chavalliers provide enough proof that they are spiritually fara far away from Christ believing in vain things like Peter's supremacy and making peopel fools.

I know Arabs can be fooled easily. But I am surprised that Marthoma Christians who had 1500 years of unbroken connection with St Thomas and through him to JESUS Christ our saviour would fall into this trap.

Ravi George said...

SAM said "Antioch relation has only 300 years history in Malankara!"

See Orthodox constitution (1934) takes you to the origin of Christianity in india. See how fortunate we are!

Where as, these Jakoabaya Bhadraasanam begins with the history of Arab church and then it connects to teh last 300 yearsa after these yakoobaya bhadrasnam peopel converted to be slaves of Arabikal. How sad!

Arabikal ennal Hagara=nte makkal

Genesis 16:15 And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael.


Galatians 4:22-26

Read: hagar delivers slaves in Arabia where as sarah delives children of the covenent.


Scripture say? "Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman." 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman. (verse 29)

Jacobites are under SLAVES where as Orthodox are born free as promosed children.

That is the difference

Ravi George said...

Susanna Rajan writes in Orthodoxherald

അമ്മയെ (ഇന്ത്യയെ) മറന്നാലും അന്ത്യോക്യായെ മറക്കില്ല എന്ന് പാടിയ യകൊബായ സഭ ഇപ്പോള്‍ ഒരു അതി ഭദ്രാസനം ആയി ചുരുങ്ങി.
എന്റെ സംശയങ്ങള്‍:
൧. ഒരു ഭദ്രാസനത്തിന് എന്തിനാണ് സ്വന്തമായി ഒരു ഭരണഘടന? അങ്ങനെ ഏര്‍പ്പാട് ക്രിസ്തീയ സഭയില്‍ ഉണ്ടോ?

൨. ഇവര്‍ വിദേശ സഭയുടെ ഇന്ത്യയിലെ ആളുകളാണ് (വിദേശ ക്രിസ്തീയ സഭയുടെ ഇന്ത്യയിലെ ഒരു അതി ഭദ്രാസനം മാത്രം). അതിനാല്‍ വിദേശ കമ്പനികളെ നിയ്നത്രിക്കാന്‍ നിയമം ഉള്ളത് പോലെ എന്തെങ്കിലും സ്പെഷ്യല്‍ നിയമം ഇവര്‍ക്ക് ഇന്ത്യയില്‍ ബാധകം ആണോ ?

൩. വിദേശ സഭകള്‍ക്ക് ഇന്ത്യന്‍ tax നിയമങ്ങള്‍ എങ്ങനെയാണ്?
൫. വിദേശ കമ്പനികളില്‍ നിന്നും ഇന്ത്യന്‍ കമ്പനികളെ രക്ഷിക്കാന്‍ ചില നിയമങ്ങള്‍ ഉള്ളതായി അറിയാം. അതുപോലെ വിദേശ സഭകളുടെ ആക്രമണത്തില്‍ നിന്നും ഇന്ത്യന്‍ സഭകളെ രക്ഷിക്കാന്‍ ഒരു നിയമം ആവശ്യമല്ലേ.?
൬. Parumala സെമിനാരി പോലുള്ള property -kal ഒരു വിദേശിയുടെ പേരില്‍ ആണെന്ന് യകൊബായ് ഭദ്രാസന നേതാക്കള്‍ പറഞ്ഞതായി പത്രത്തില്‍ വായിച്ചു. വിദേശികള്‍ക്ക് ഇന്ത്യയില്‍ property own ചെയ്യാമോ? പ്രത്യേകിച്ചും തന്ത്ര പ്രധാനമായതും , ഇന്ത്യക്കാര്‍ പവിത്രമായി കരുതുന്നതുമായ കാര്യങ്ങളില്‍ വിദേശികളെ നിയന്ത്രിക്കെണ്ടാതല്ലേ ?

ഇതിനു നിയമ പണ്ഡിതര്‍ ആരെങ്കലും മറുപടി നല്‍കുമെന്ന് പ്രതീക്ഷിക്കുന്നു.

yoh said...

before coming to parumala....the antiocheans should obey the court order..that the churches manarkadu and kothamangalam belongs to the property of malankara orthodox church.....so whether they will do this and thus befaithful to the indian constitution... KODATHI VIDHI KALLAMANANNU PARAYALLEEEEEEE.........

LAST YEAR u said u have the ADHARAM of the thrikkunnathu seminary.... they will submit it... ENTHE...ITHUVARE KITTIYILLE...... so donot try to say these false and illegal claims......

now tlking about parumala ... ATHUM NINGALUDE THANNU POLUM...... ENTHU CHEYANNA.... ...MALANKARA ORTHODOX CHURCH WILL BE HERE AND THE THRONE OF ST.THOMAS WILL BE HERE AS LONG AS THE WORLD EXISTS....

reji said...

ammaye marannalum anthokyabavaye marannalum dhaivathe marakalle acho

Ebenezar said...

Dear Jacobites
You people Chant your slogan every now and then!However It is Not Antioch which is giving you the VISA to heaven!When you people forget Christ and his teachings and make your own instructions, teachings /principles you become antiChrist!this is exactly you are doing now!Salvation is not from Antioch,It is from Christ!Christ did not give his Priest hood to St.Peter alone!All 12 disciples and the Apostle for gentiles St.Paul got it!It was not St.Peter who ordained St.PAUL!
St.Peter did not send St.Thomas to Malankara from Antioch!If Your Antioch was biggest,in early centuary the Partriarch of Antioch had only 4th position among the other Partriarchs!Don't try to cheat people in Malankara!
St.Thomas only proclaimed "MY Lord My God"!to witness the Risen Christ! That is enough for Malankara Nazranikal!

Innocent said...

We belive in Antioch because Antioch gave us every thing. Our faith, our culture, our vision, our dress, our resource. You people have money because Manorama gives you money. We only have faith and that is the faith from Antioch. That is enough for us. 'Jeevichallum Marichallum Antiochya mathram mathiyenikku'. Can you be an Indian without following the constitution. So we are Antiochians because we follow their constitution. WE know our Universal Patriarch will not do anything bad to us. Because much before the arrival of St.Thomas Patriarch cared for us. Actually St.Peter was to come to India, but he was too busy so he sent St.Thomas. So you have to respect St.Peter because it was only because Patriarch requested he was sent.
You people do not know any church history and always you say 52AD St. Thomas came to India. But you should understand before 52 AD there were 52 years and lot of things happend during that time.

Podiyan, Karuvatta said...

യാകൊബായ സഭയെ Kettippanitha ശ്രേഷ്ഠ ബാവയെ ഇങ്ങനെ അവഹേളിച്ചത് പൊറുക്കവുനതല്ല.

Podiyan, Karuvatta said...

Nalunnannakkal Thirumeni Randum Kaalum Parichu Chadunnathu kandappozhe Oru Samsayam Adichirunnu. Ippol Angane Thanne Sambavikkukayum Chaithu.

Podiyan, Karuvatta said...

ഇക്കണ്ട കാലം മുഴുവന്‍ കോടിക്കണക്കിനു പണം മലന്കരയില്‍ നിന്ന് കിട്ടിയത് മുഴുവന്‍ വാങ്ങിച്ചിട്ട് ഇപ്പോള്‍ അമേരിക്കകാരുടെ 25000 ഡോളര്‍ കിട്ടിയപ്പോള്‍ ഞങ്ങളുടെ ശ്രേഷ്ഠ ബാവയെ തള്ളിപ്പറഞ്ഞത് Manyathacku ചേര്‍ന്ന പണിയാല്ലെന്നു മാത്രം ഒര്പ്പിക്കുന്നു. ഞങ്ങളും ഓര്‍ത്തഡോക്‍സ്‌ കാരെ പോലെ സ്വതന്ത്രരായി നിന്നാല്‍ പിന്നെ കൂടെ നില്ക്കാന്‍ സിംഹാസന പള്ളിക്കാരും ചിങ്ങവനം Knanayakkarume കാണൂ.

Podiyan, Karuvatta said...

Mone Innacha, Dress monte Appan Vangichu Thannathalle. Pavappetta Angere Marakkaruthu.

sampariyarathu said...

Dear Innocent
You don't know Church history or fundamental bible principles!You are saying Things Changed before A.D.52 where and when?Do you know when the title Partriarch came in use?Can You quote a verse from Bible That St.Peter ordering St.Thomas to go and preach Gospel in India?What things got changed?You must read Bible!Don't make insensible points or comments!
Again IOC/MOSC are not Manorama! Manorama is a well known Newspaper /media group in India!
What happened To Your C.J.Kurien and Family for persecuting MOSC!
Dear Innocent stop unnecessary and irrevalent Comments!You can Praise Antioch more than Jesus Christ!
Another thing 52 years for what! What year Did Jesus Die on cross at Calvary?What year was Jesus Born? you know nothing!you people say in A.D. 34 St.Peter,the apostle established His Throne in Antioch!L/L Yakkoob III wrote in his book St.Thomas was ordained as a Priest in A.D.28! You are talking/writing contrary to your Church fathers' history!
Jesus Christ after his Resurrection, 40 days appeared to his Disciples and taught them everything about Kingdom of God!Prior to his Acension they (Disciples) were trained and made firm witnesses of his(jesus's) resuurection!and they were told to wait for The Gift Of Holy Spirit!
After recieving Holy Spirit on Pentacost Day ,the apostles start preching Christianity beginning from Jerusalem to various places of the globe!
What ever liturgy you are using now is not sole creations of Antioch!The Church fathers whose name are remembered on 5th Thubden are not from antioch!You must study church history!Can you tell me any body ordained as a priest by St.Peter in Bible?

Innocent said...

Dear Sam,
We know about christianinty only due to Antioch. If Antiochian Patriarchs had not to send Bishops here, we would have not heard about Christianinity. So we need to thank them for that. What we are doing is only that. Regarding Patriarch Yakob III, he has later changed his views on St.thomas and we belive in that because that is more apt for us. I know only the history taught by our Church fathers from Antioch and we belive only that history

Ebenezar said...

Dear Innocent
You must undergo to Elementary teachings of Christianbity!In Malayalam "BalaPadam"!
can you brief History Of Christianity ,origin,beginning,how,when& where etc, rather than making senseless comments!

Kannadi said...

ഒരു വിദ്വാന്‍ എഴുതിക്കണ്ടു മരിച്ചു കഴിഞ്ഞാല്‍ സ്വര്‍ഗ്ഗത്തില്‍ പോകുന്നത് അന്ത്യോക്ക്യ വഴിയാണെന്ന്. അന്ത്യൊക്ക്യയില്‍ നിന്ന് ടിക്കറ്റ് കിട്ടിയാല്‍ രക്ഷപെട്ടു, ഇല്ലെങ്കില്‍ നമ്മുടെ കാര്യം പോക്ക്.
ഇവനൊക്കെ എവിടുന്നു വരുന്നടാ! ഏത് നൂറ്റാണ്ടിലാണോ ഇവന്‍ ജനിച്ചത്‌, ഒരു പിടിയും കിട്ടുന്നില്ല. ഇവന് അല്‍പ്പം വെളിവ് കിട്ടുന്നതിനു എന്തെങ്കിലും മരുന്ന് ആര്‍ക്കെങ്കിലും നിര്‍ദ്ദേശിക്കാമോ?

Kannadi said...

Hey people I saw you are so furious to Innocent. To me whatever he said is correct. Look why do we call Europeans "sayippu" and bow our heads?, because we were slaves under them for three centuries. So still they are the masters. Then why can't you people bow your heads to our Patriarch? Malankara Sabha had also been under the Patriarch for four centuries and had been enjoying the Malankara Sabha's wealth. So it is our dire duty to be under our Patriarch. You were saying something about Indian Constitution, for us our Patriarch is the Supreme, we won't accept any other supreme over that. That is why we say we would easily forget our mother but never forget Antioch. You people have no sense. Read our "Viswasa samrakshakan" regularly you will become wise and intelligent, even you can try for a doctorate.
thank you.

Reni said...

IANS NEWS
.......Jacobite Church spokesperson Fr Varghese Kallappara said the faction is ready to withdraw its decision to construct a new church if its followers are permitted to worship at the St.Peter’s and St.Paul’s Church at Parumala, indirectly indicating that they should be allowed to become members......

Susanna Rajan says:
October 12, 2010 at 5:11 am
സഭ രണ്ടാണെന്നും പിരിയണമെന്നും orthodox -കാര്‍ സഭ വിട്ടുപോയി എന്നും പറയന്ന സഭയുടെ നേതാകള്‍ orthodox സഭയ്ടെ പള്ളിയില്‍ സ്വന്തം സഭയില്‍ ആളുകള്‍ക്ക് അങ്ങത്വം (മെംബെര്‍ഷിപ്‌) വാങ്ങി കൊടുക്കാന്‍ നടക്കുന്നതിന്റെ ഗുട്ടെന്‍സ് എത്ര ആലോചിച്ചിട്ടും പിടി കിട്ടുന്നില്ല.

‘യകൊബായ സുറിയാനി ക്രിസ്ടനി സഭ ഭരണഘടന 2002 ‘ പാര്‍ട്ട്‌ V (ഇടവകപള്ളി പൊതുയോഗം)
item 202 -ഇല്‍ ഒരു ഇടവകയിലെ അംഗം സ്ഥിരമായോ തക്ത്കാലീകമായോ ചേരുന്നതിനുള്ള വ്യവസ്ഥകള്‍ ചേര്‍ത്തിട്ടുണ്ട്.
രണ്ടു പള്ളികളിലെയും വികാരിമാരുടെയും അറിവോടും managing കമ്മിറ്റി -യുടെ അനുമതി ആവശ്യം . ഒരു ഭദ്രാസനത്തില്‍ നിന്നും മറ്റൊരു ഭദ്രാസനത്തിലേക്ക് മാറുന്നതിനു മേട്രപോളിത്തമാരുടെ അനുവാദവും വേണം.

ഐറ്റം 11 : .സംഭവക സ്വത്തുക്കാലോ അദായമോ വരുമാനങ്ങലോ യാതൊരു കാരണവശാലും സഭാങ്ങള്‍ക്ക് വീതിച്ചി കൊടുക്കുവാന്‍ ഉദ്ടെശിക്കാപ്പെട്ടിട്ടില്ലാത്തതും അപ്രകാരം വീതിച്ചു ലഭിക്കുവാന്‍ ആര്‍ക്കും അവകാശമില്ലാത്തതുമാകുന്നു.

അപ്പോള്‍ യകൊബക്കാരെ പിന്നെ നിങ്ങള്‍ എന്തിന്നാണ് ഭൂരിപക്ഷം നോക്കി സഭയുടെ സ്വത്തുക്കള്‍ വീതം വെക്കനമെന്ന്നു ഓര്‍ത്തഡോക്‍സ്‌ സഭയോടും പത്രത്തിലൂടെ പൊതു ജനങ്ങളോടും പറയുന്നത്?

Innocent said...

Dear Podiyan,
When we discuss about Church history what are you talking about my dress. In our church we have only place for our mother. That is why we say, "Amaye maranallum antiochyaye marakoola". In short we don't discuss much about our father. You may call people like us 'fatherless', but our father is in Antioch and you are simply taking his name which will only bring wrath on you. Hope you understand

Reni said...

Innocent,

You follow only Arabi saayippu? You know that Arabs were not promised children of God, but children of Hagar?

Innocent, we had Jews here in Kerala and most of them accepted Jesus when st Thomas preached. That is why jesus told "Go first to the lost children of Israel"

Never in hitory had Arabs preached gospel of christ to any nation (They are interested in learning).. I do not about other Arab religions.

Innocent tell me please, will our future be bright if we continue supporting the domination of an outside country?

So you please join Orhtodox Faith of Free India

Reni said...

Posted in Orthodox Herald
Saju Chacko Kuttickandathil says:

ഞാന്‍ ഇന്ന് (10-10-2010) ഉച്ചവരെ പള്ളിയില്‍ ആയിരുന്നു. ദിവ്യബോധനം പഠനം, കുട്ടികള്‍ക്ക് സണ്‍‌ഡേ സ്കൂള്‍ എന്നിവ കഴിഞ്ഞു തിരിച്ചു വരുമ്പോള്‍ ഒരു ഹിന്ദു സുഹൃത്ത്‌ ഫോണില്‍ വിളിച്ചു. നമ്മുടെ പരുമലപള്ളിയുടെ പേര് പരുമല സെമിനാരി എന്നാണോ എന്നയാള്‍ ചോദിച്ചു. കാര്യം തിരക്കിയപ്പോള്‍ ഇന്ന് (10 ഒക്ടോബര്‍ ) മനോരമയില്‍ വന്ന യകൊബായക്കാരുടെ പരസ്യത്തെ patti പറഞ്ഞു. . “Parumalapally ” എന്നേ അയാള്‍ കേട്ടിട്ടുള്ളൂ. വീട്ടില്‍ വന്നു പത്രം നോക്കി. “ഇപ്പോഴുള്ള പള്ളി പരുമല സെമിനാരി എന്നാണ് പരക്കെ അറിയപ്പെടുന്നത്” എന്ന വാചകം പരസ്യത്തില്‍ വായിച്ചു അറിയാതെ മൂക്കത്ത് വിരല്‍ വെച്ചുപോയി.
അപ്പോള്‍ ജനങ്ങള്‍ “parumalapally ” എന്ന് ഇപ്പോള്‍ വിളിക്കുന്ന പള്ളി ഏതാണ്?

ഇങ്ങനെയും മനുഷ്യര്‍ക്ക്‌ നുണ പറയാന്‍ കഴിയുമോ? ഇവര്‍ എന്ത് തരം അത്മീയക്കാരാന്? ഇത് തന്നെയല്ലേ ഇവര്‍ എല്ലാ കാര്യത്തിലും കാണിക്കുന്നത്? ഇത് തുടങ്ങിയിട്ട് ഒരു noottandu ആയി എന്ന് വേദനോടെ ഓര്‍ത്തു. ഇപ്പോഴത്തെ ആള്‍ പോയാല്‍ അതിലും വലിയ വേന്ദ്രന്‍ ആയ ആള്‍ ആവും വരിക. യഥാ രാജാ തഥാ പ്രജാ . അതിനാല്‍ ഇനി പരുമലയില്‍ മാത്രമല്ല ഒരു പള്ളിയിലും സമനധാനം തരില്ല.

sampariyarathu said...

Dear Innocent
Iam sorry to say that,You are totally a blind man!You do not know anything Christianity in India!Can you tell me any Antioch Partriarch who came india/Malankara prior to A.D. 1600!
Your New invention /discovery will give you a Ginness award for Relegious Fanatic of The Present/current centuary!

ravi009 said...

മന്ദബുദ്ദിക്കളെ.... സ്വന്തം കാൽ ചുവട്ടിലെ മണൊലിച്ചു പോകുന്നത് നിങ്ങൾ അറിയുന്നില്ലയൊ!!! അതോ ഒഴുക്കിന്നൊപ്പം നീന്തിനോക്കുന്നതോ???? മെത്രാൻ കക്ഷി ബൂമറങ്ങ് മൂസ ഗുർഗാന്റെ രൂപത്തിലും, മാത്യുസ് ഗ്രീഗോരിയോസിന്റെ രൂപത്തിലും തിരിഞ്ഞു കൊത്തുംബോഴും നിങ്ങൾ കാണിക്കുന്ന ആത്മവിശ്വാസം കണ്ണിട്ടായിരിക്കും പഴമക്കാർ പറഞ്ഞുപോയത് “അണയാൻ പോകുന്ന തീ ആളിക്കത്തുമെന്ന്”........

Paul said...

Dear Friends,

Please dont waste your time in answering Innocent. His first comment is a no: 1 joke. Take it in that way. IGNORANCE IS A BLISS. What else to say

Innocent said...

Dear Sam,
My faith is my strength and I am indebted to our Antiochian fathers for that like the many of us under the Yakob Boordana of Malankara our most beloved humble simple and able Thomas Bava.
I can't imagine a world without them. The grace, the color, the language and the what not are they lacking in. Even after 2000 years they carry the same charisma and that is our Strength. Antiochyaye marakoola. I can't specifically remember the name of the Patriarchs who came to Malankara before 1600. But if you read our Antiochian Publications, you will get a good idea about our Church history. Learn our history and simply follow our Patriarch. Don't worry about what the constitution says. That is just like every body we have got one. To be frank enough who is following these constitutions. Do you guys follow that. If that was the case what happend in your NE Diocese. Mar Barnabas say not to priest hood to your deacons and your Niyuktan does it. So don't get very much concerned on it.

Jeemon said...

Yakkobayakare theri vilikkunna comments matrame ningal publish cheyyukayollu??????

ennal pinne ethum fire, crime thudagiyavapole pettykadayil vilkanvechal pore????
avasyakar vannu vangikollumallo!!!!

Innocent said...

Jeemon,
Don't get agitated. We are the ones who should show them sympathy. We are the ones who have Patriarch, wheres see these guys above their catholicose there is no body whereas above our Catholicose we have Patriarch. So don't get irritated. We are blessed. Manga ulla mavellalley kalleriyuvann pattu? Let them throw stones at us, we should ensure that our Mangoes should not fall and they simply eat it. Our Mangoes are for our Antiochian fathers. They only should eat it.

Jeevan said...

The first official patriarchal visit to India was only during the Marthomite issue. Patriarch Peter who initiated the Mulanthuruthy Synod. (approx 140 years away).

The first Syrian Bishop to arrive in India is Gregorious Abdul Jaleel Bava, who arrived in 1665 (345 years before)...

Hence our association with Antioch is just 345 years old... Mar Sapor, Afroth etc, who are tagged Syrians by the Antiochian Church, are infact saints of the Persian( Assyrian/Nestorian) Church.

We have not real proof of ethinicity of anyone prior to Coonnen Cross... Hence no proof for any West Syrian (Antiochian) connection before 1665. However their are plenty of evidences for the East Syrian( Nestorian/Persian) connection.

Jacobite's have just fabricated history, to provide room for Antiochian church prior to 1665.

Jeevan said...

@ Jeemon

For years, Jacobites were writing nonsenses through your Malankara Syriac Voice and Vishwasa Somrakshakan...

I have several times closed the browser in anger seeing the rubbbish and PARTICULARLY LIES written by you people.

Atleast noone is saying any lie here... whatever nonsense you write in your publications, we give replies here...

Uralakku Upperi...

Jeevan said...

No point crying about it..

It is the same pain, we have, when you people write RUBBISH about Vattasheril Thirumeni, and ridicule IOC through your media...

Atleast we are not printing a nonsense paper like Vishwasa Somrakshakan and circulating it to peoples doorsteps..

MOtv blog, is something which is accessed by only people who are Computer educated...

Ravi George said...

@Innocent

Whay don't youuse your brain and build amind of your own onstead of chanting ANTOCHEA ANOCHEA..is this in your family or trained by fanatic prists?

What you have to say about the RIFT betwen Zacha I bava abd Thomas bava? Will your Thomas Bava take action against Patrairch in his usual style? INI THOMAS THIRUMENI ENTHU CHEYYUM?

Innocent said...

Dear Ravi,
Why do you write lies. There is no issues between Patriarch and our Catholicose. When Thomas Bava wanted to retire, Patriarch said no and that is why he is still continuing. Otherwise he would have retired. Unfortunately some people spoke bad about our Gregorios and Philexinos Thirumeni to the Patriarch. But that is no true. However, Patriarch requested our Bava to look for someone else to be his successor and that is how our Coorilose Thirumeni has become the candidate and he will be unanimously elected not like you guys elect with lot of noise.
So don't try to spread the rumour that there is some issues between Patriarch and Catholicose, You people wanted it but we will not let it happen. See whatever Antioch says we will obey so where is the question of we having issues with Antioch.

Reni said...

Posted by Susanna Rajan

Antioch സഭയുടെ ഭരണഘടന വായിച്ചാല്‍ Patriarch -ന്റെ അധികാരം ക്രിസ്തു വിനുണ്ടോ എന്ന് തോന്നി പോകും
Article 20. H. H. the Patriarch bestows decorations on whomever he finds worthy.
തോന്നുന്നവര്‍ക്ക് അദ്ദേഹം എന്തും നല്‍കും. അതായതു അതിനു താഴെയുള്ള മെത്രാന്‍, വികാരി എന്നിവരുടെ recommendation വേണ്ട. അതായതു താഴെയാരും അറിയാതെ, മുഴുവനായി അദ്ദേഹത്തിനു നല്‍കിയാല്‍ മതി എന്ന്.

Samji said...

Dear Ravioo9
Why do you think MOSC are Mental retarded/ Disorders!Moosa Goorgan was SOC from Germany brought up by up your Antiochean Holy fathers in their faith!If he turned against them it was not because of MOSC/IOC! It was Mainly due to the discrimination/dictorial mentality,activities by Antiochean Heirarchy in Damascus/SOC. Antiochean church(soc) itself had lot of rivalry with in and it has lot of internal troubles/rifts in Europe,North/south America!
First of all let them clean themselves! Antioch has no superiority in early centuaries!They misused their Power/position In Malankara in the Name of Christ!
Dear Ravi,you orJacobites are also going to have problems soon!
Until such time relax!

Sam P.T.

sampariyarathu said...

Dear Innocent
We do not want read your Antiocheans fabricated Stories/publications! We Have Church history written by varius people in Kerala as well as Europeans!You are the one who should read/study History of Early Christianity in India, also the Bible! Even The Liturgy that SOC using now are not made/created solely by Antiocheans!

Manu said...

The first antioch bishop visted in india is Urha mar joseph the Bishop who came with Kanaya people.Thus the relation between malankara & antioch started in the 345 AD

Innocent said...

Dear Sam,
We don't read or listen to any other history other than issued and published and authorised by our Prince Patriarch from Antioch. So you continue to read the history by any Tom, dick & Harry.
We only have one history which is written bu our Antiochian fathers.
You are welcome to read and belive in it.

Reni said...

The Arthat Padiyola (1805), clearly says, “We agree to follow the faith & rules laid down by St.Thomas and not the suggestions and acts of anyone from Rome, Babylon , Antioch or from any foreign land.

Ravi George said...

Dear Innocent

I am not convinced. Who are those influentail people who spoke 'lies' about our Gregorios and Philexinos Thirumeni? What are those lies, Innocent? (speak softly, only I am listening)

Innocent,one last thing

Do you support Patriach in this issue? Was not an injustice done to Thomas Bava by taking away USA, Europe & Gulf. It was Thomas Thirumni who fought all the way (though it was an unethical war that lacked values and principles).

Samji said...

There is new creed for some Christian sects in Malankara! We beleive in antioch! Antioch give us everything! Antioch made us Christians!,Antioch gave us Dress! Antioch Gave us food! Antioch Is All in All!The Nicene creed is not valid for them!
This new creed of some Factions of Christians in Malankara are heresy!Christ Is For All Nations,Christ is For All!This is what the word of God Says!

sampariyarathu said...

Dear Innocent
You cannot give a proper answer to my questions as you are deadwood!I don't need to any Partriarchs or theie stories as they are not real followers of Christ!They follow what they want to be on earth!There Was L/L. EliasIII Partriarch who came Malankara on a peace Mission!Piece mission was in his pocket! There was no peace mission he did!he died in Manjinikkara!that was end of his peace mission in Malankara!log into www.seyfocenter.com,article byAugin Kurt, seyfocenter, read,assyrian genocide1915!
Then Another one who was in Malankara as a remban(monk) later became Partiarch, L/L. Yakkoob III,the infamous partriatch who wrote that St.Thomas was not a priest!You Innocent ,you are the same like him.You also wrote St.Thomas Was not a laymen,not a priest but an Apostle! You do not even know the meaning of Apostle! You are Hypocrites!read Bible thoroughly you will understand Who is An apostle, disciple etc!Who is an Emissary/messenger etc!You are not even able to answer any of My questions!just recite something somebody taught/brainwashed you without any common sense!

Innocent said...

Dear Sam,
Don't get irritated. May be what you say is true from your point of view. But to us they are saints. We also have plans of making all Patriarchs to Saints after their death. The only person who will miss the boat will be Abdul Messaih as he is the one who gave you people Catholicate. So rest of the Patriarchs will definitely become Saints and we will built churches in their name in Malankara as we have more faithful here than in other places around the world.
Meanwhile, as you have rightly pointed I have not much idea about Apostle, Disciple etc. but I have fair idea about Patriarch and Catholicose Maphriyana. To me that is enough as they are see around.

Ravi George said...

Manu said...
The first antioch bishop visted in india is Urha mar joseph the Bishop who came with Kanaya people.Thus the relation between malankara & antioch started in the 345 AD
Dear manu
Ok, for the sake of argument. But was Urha mar joseph of antioch? Were the Knanaya people belonge to Antioch? The Knanaya people never wanted to mingle with local people and therefore it is sure that they did not came to preach gospel here. Eitther they were running away from persecution or came to do business. But it is certian that they did not coem to preach or save St Thomas chrstians as thee people follow racial approach..

Then we have proof that Christianity existed in India even before. Therefore it is proved the Church in india existed much before them.

In fac thistory says Knayi Thoma was runnning away from perecution. They did not preach here.

Ravi George said...

Roman Church claims that St Peter's throne is in Rome. can any Antochean faithful explain this?

Jeevan said...

@Manu,

We will not be in a position to establish, whether Uraha Mar Joseph, was Syrian, Persian, Greek or Armenian.

The knanaya people themselves debate, wether they were Jews, Syrians or Persians.

If we read the Syro Malabar history,for them, all those before Connen Cross Oath are Persians/ Chaldeans...

If we read the Jacobite history, all of them are Antiochian Syrians...

Uraha is Edessa, which was a cosmopolitan city in 4th century. And also, initially Christianity was dominated by Greeks. It is very hard to establish anyone’s ethnicity during that period. Remember the Pentarchy, during the initial centuries was again Greek dominated. (Even Rome). During 345 AD, hence Antioch was also Greek dominated. It as only in the early 5th century that the Syrianization started in the Syrian Church. So we not in a position to establish anyone’s loyalty during the 3rd and 4th centuries.

Also, history teaches that many have come here, Copts, Armenians, Persians, Portuguese, etc. Their arrival here doesn’t mean we established connection with all sees. We welcomed anyone who came here.

Was recently reading about the Armenian presence in Kerala in the 1st and 2nd centuries.

Remember Pantaenus, Cosmas Indicopleustes who were Egyptians visited India( Which part of India, God knows???) in the 2nd and 6th century. Likewise we had many visitors. It is not apt to associate, every visitor and their church with ours.

jollymalayil said...

Dear Innocent,
It is interesting to watch that you get instant reply for your posting.Your arguments and explanations in favour of MSOC reveals your true color. Go ahead until you are tired of wearing that mask. You got it, right? Thanks for all the good words about MSOC. God bless.

Jolly Malayil,USA.

Innocent said...

Dear Jolly,
This is exactly what the Metrakashi people talk about us. They say we are wearing the mask of Antiochian Patriarch and we need to remove it and that is what people like Sam say that we need to remove the log from our eye. Now I am confused to which group do you belong to. Hope that you are on the side of Metrakashi when you are in USA and when you come to Kerala you are in member of our church. Hope our Thomas Bava is not aware about your stand otherwise, he may excommunicate you.
Slomo

Samji said...

Dear All
Abdul Jaleel mar Greogorios(a.d.1665) was not a Antiochean Syrian Bishop!He was not send By H.H. Partriarch of Antioch!Jacobites and Antiochean Heirarchy want show that everything belong to Antioch!The Thaksa used By Adul Jaleel Mar Gregorios was written in Kaldhaya syriac,Which was Printed in Rome!
While in Malankara he wrote a kalpana which was in Kaldaya Syriac!He used unleavened bread for celeberating H.Qurbana!The Robes of Abdul Jaleel was different from Antioch Bishops!
However Now Jacobites and Antiocheans declared him a saint of Malankara Under the presumption that he was from Syria!
There was Another Bishop Mar Ivanios came in Malankara with Yeldho Mar Baseliose Mafriana!(A.D.1685).This mar Ivanios is the one who made/forced Malankara Metropolitan(Pakalomattom Bishops) to contact with Antioch! This Ivanios divided the Church history of Malankara into three stages (1)prior to Arrival of Vasco degama(Parankikal/portughese)Syrian/Antioch Era.(2)A.D. 1498-1665Portughese Era(3)
A.D.1685 on wards "Antiochean Church Era"!He passed away in 1693 before that he Consecrated Marthoma III,and Marthoma IV as Malankara Metropolitans!By then Malankara did not have any antiochean Liturgy or robes!
The Yeldho Mapriyana's liturgy was different from present Syrian orthodox Church(west syriac)!However section of people in Malankara still beleive that everything in Malankara was from Antioch (west syriac rite) from A.D. 52.(without going through history and evidence)

Kannadi said...

സിറിയക് വോയ്സിലെ ന്യൂസ് ആധാരമാക്കിയാണ് ഇതെഴുതുന്നത്.

(പരിശുദ്ധ സ്ലീഹന്മാരെ എപ്പോഴെങ്കിലും വിമര്ഷിച്ചിട്ടുണ്ടെങ്കില്‍ അവരും കര്‍ത്താവും എന്നോട് ക്ഷമിക്കട്ടേന്നു പ്രാര്‍ത്ഥിക്കുന്നു.)

സ്ഥാന മോഹവും ധന മോഹവും വ്യക്തി വൈരാഗ്യവും ആണല്ലോ സഭാ വഴക്കിന്റെ മൂല കാരണം. ഈ മൂന്നു പ്രധാന കാരണങ്ങളും
മറച്ചു പിടിക്കുന്നതിനായി പല അടവുകളും പയറ്റും. ഈ അടവുകളിലെ ആദ്യത്തേത് വിശുദ്ധ മത്തായിയുടെ സുവിശേഷം അദ്ധ്യായം 16 ലെ
18 , 19 വാക്യങ്ങളാണല്ലോ. ഈ വാക്യങ്ങള്‍ മാത്രം വായിച്ചു പിന്നീടുള്ളതോന്നും വായിക്കാതെ കണ്ണടച്ചു പിടിച്ചു തുള്ളുന്നവരോട് ഞാനൊന്ന്
ചോദിക്കട്ടെ, ഈ അദ്ധ്യായത്തിലെ വാക്യം 23 ഒന്ന് വായിച്ചു നോക്കിക്കേ, എന്താണ് അവിടെ പറയുന്നത്?, കര്‍ത്താവ് പത്രോസിനോട് പറയുന്നു,
" സാത്താനേ എന്നെ വിട്ടു പോ, നീ എനിക്ക് ഇടര്‍ച്ചയാകുന്നു ; ......". ഈ വാക്യം മാത്രം വായിച്ചിട്ട് പത്രോസ് ശ്ലീഹാ സാത്താനാണെന്നു പറഞ്ഞാല്‍
അങ്ങനെ പറയുന്നവന്‍ വെറും പൊട്ടനെന്നല്ലാതെ മറ്റെന്തു പറയാനാണ്. അതുകൊണ്ട് വി. വേദപുസ്തകത്തിലെ വാക്യങ്ങള്‍ വായിക്കുമ്പോള്‍ സാഹചര്യവും സന്ദര്‍ഭവും കൂടി മനസ്സിലാക്കണം. അതുപോലെ ഈ വാക്യങ്ങള്‍ക്കു പിന്നാലെ വരുന്നതും കൂടി വായിക്കുകയും വേണം.
അദ്ധ്യായം 18 ലെ വാക്യം 18 വായിച്ചു നോക്കിക്കെ, ഇവിടെ കര്‍ത്താവ് പത്രോസ് ശ്ലീഹായോടു മാത്രമാണോ അതോ എല്ലാ ശ്ലീഹന്മാരോടുമാണോ പറയുന്നത്?. എന്തേ ഈ വേദ ഭാഗം വായിക്കാന്‍ വിട്ടു പോയി ? അതോ വായിച്ചാല്‍
മനസ്സിലാകുന്നില്ലെന്നുണ്ടോ? ശ്ലീഹന്മാരെല്ലാവരെയും കര്‍ത്താവ് "സഹോദരങ്ങള്‍" എന്നാണു സംബോധന ചെയ്തത്. അത്രയ്ക്ക് ഔന്നത്യം പ്രാപിച്ചവരാണ് ശ്ലീഹന്മാര്‍. അവരില്‍ ആരെയെങ്കിലും ആക്ഷേപിച്ചാല്‍ അത് കര്‍ത്താവിനെ അക്ഷേപിക്കുന്നതിനു തുല്യമാണ്.
തോമാ ശ്ലീഹായുടെ സിംഹാസനം ഞാനോ നിങ്ങളോ പാത്രിക്കീസു ബാവായോ കൊടുത്തിരിക്കുന്നതല്ല, കര്‍ത്താവ് കൊടുത്തിരിക്കുന്നതാണ്. പത്രോസ് ശ്ലീഹായുണ്ടായിരുന്നെങ്കില്‍, "തോമായുടെ സിംഹാസനം ആലന്കാരിക"മാണെന്നു പറയുന്നവര്‍ക്ക് അടി കിട്ടിയേനെ.
വി. വേദപുസ്തകത്തില്‍ ഒരിടത്തും മറ്റു ശ്ലീഹന്മാര്‍ പത്രോസ് ശ്ലീഹായുടെ കീഴിലാണെന്ന് തെളിയിക്കുന്ന ഒരു സന്ദര്‍ഭവുമില്ല. തലവനായിരുന്നു (മുന്പനായിരുന്നു) എന്ന് പറഞ്ഞാല്‍ അതിനര്‍ത്ഥം അധികാരിയായിരുന്നു എന്നാണോ ധരിക്കുന്നത്? അങ്ങനെ തെറ്റിദ്ധരിപ്പിക്കുന്നത് സ്വാര്‍ത്ഥ ലകഷ്യത്തോടെയല്ലാതെ മറ്റെന്താണ്?

എനിക്ക് നാല് സഹോദരങ്ങളുണ്ട്. ഞങ്ങള്‍ നാല് പേരും ഞങ്ങളുടെ മൂത്ത ജ്യേഷ്ഠനെ വളരെ ബഹുമാനത്തോടെയാണ് കാണുന്നത്, നിങ്ങളും അങ്ങനെ യായിരിക്കുമല്ലോ. പലപ്പോഴും ചേട്ടനെ ഞങ്ങള്‍ അനുസ്സരിക്കാറൂമുണ്ട്. എന്നുവെച്ചു ചേട്ടന് "ഇതെന്റെ അവകാശമാണെ"ന്നും പറഞ്ഞു കോടതി മുഖേന സാധിച്ചെടുക്കാവുന്നതാണോ താനുപയോഗിക്കുന്ന അധികാരവും അവകാശവും? "നിങ്ങള്‍ അഞ്ചു പേരെയും തുല്യരായിട്ടാണ് ഞങ്ങള്‍ കാണുന്നത്", എന്റെ മാതാപിതാക്കന്മാര്‍ പല പ്രാവശ്യം പറയുന്നത് ഞാന്‍ കേട്ടിട്ടുണ്ട്. എന്നാല്‍ ഞങ്ങളുടെ എല്ലാ കാര്യങ്ങളിലും മൂത്ത ചേട്ടന് പ്രത്യേക സ്ഥാനം കൊടുക്കുന്നുണ്ട്, അത് പക്ഷെ സ്നേഹത്തിലൂടെ യാനെന്നു മാത്രം. പത്രോസ് ശ്ലീഹായ്ക്കും ഇതേ സ്ഥാനമാല്ലായിരുന്നോള്ളത് ? 1934
ലെ ഉടമ്പടിപ്രകാരം പാത്രിക്കീസിനും ഇതേ സ്ഥാനം മലങ്കര സഭ കൊടുക്കുന്നുണ്ട്. അതിലപ്പുറം അധികാരം വേണമെന്ന് വാശി പിടിക്കുന്നത്‌ വേറെ ലകഷ്യ ത്തോടെയായിരിക്കും. അത് പക്ഷെ ഇന്ത്യയില്‍ ഇനിയും വിലപ്പോവില്ല.
വെറുതെ സാധാരണ ജനങ്ങളെ പറഞ്ഞു പറ്റിച്ചു മുതലെടുക്കുന്നു, എത്ര നികൃഷ്ടമായ വഞ്ചന. ദൈവം പോറൂക്കട്ടെയെന്നു പ്രാര്ത്‍ഥിക്കാം.

Rojin said...

all frnds; ningalkku pallikal illanjitte onnumallallo veruthe njangalude pallil chumma prashnaam onnum ondakkaruthu lokam muzhuvan ariyappedunna oru palliya enthina veruthe ellathakkan shramikkunathu. ningalkku ningalude vishvasikal olleduthu pore palli. ella pallium adachu puttikkanulla ningaluda shramam nadakkillla. oru parishuden andhya vishramam kollunna sthalamam. Athu arum marakkaruthu . Atharkkum nallathalla.Thirumeni iver cheuunathu enthennu ariyayikayal ivarode shamikaaname.

Samji said...

Dear Innocent
Do you Know anything about Oriental orthodox churches?How come oriental orthodox churches are having different heads of church using different titles?Do you think all these church heads are appointed by your Antiochean Partriarch?The way you are commenting seems that Antioch partriarch is the Supreme Head of Church of Christ on earth!

sampariyarathu said...

Dear Kannadi
As you view or other orthodox faithfail view the Jacobites or Antiocheans do not view the teachings of Christ!during 4th and 5th centuary some Antiochean fathers made some liturgy(allegorical) songs/tachings which are reflected against the true/real teachings of bible/early christianity!St.Peter himself called as a co-elder among other elders of early church!This means he was an elder(Kassiso/Priest)among the 12 Kassiso/priests!
In the weddingceremoney liturgy a song by syriac orthodox church sung like "veedin Bharanam Sheemone,suvishesham yohannane....".Which house is governed/ruled by Simon Peter? Gospel for St.John! What happened other gospel writers /preachers like St.Mathew,St.Luke,St.Mark?Also great Apostle of getiles st.Paul?St.Peter called Silas as a Christian brother who helped him to write his First epistle!there are lot of other examles in Bible to point out here in this respect!

Kannadi said...

സുഹൃത്തെ
വാസ്തവം പറഞ്ഞാല്‍ "വിശ്വാസ സംരക്ഷകനും" "മലങ്കര സിറിയക് വോയ്സും" വായിച്ചപ്പോഴാണ് എനിക്ക് വെളിവുണ്ടായതും സത്യാവസ്ഥ മനസ്സിലായതും . അതിനാല്‍ ഞാനിനി അമ്മയെ മറന്നോണ്ട് അന്ത്യോക്യായെ മുറുകെപ്പിടിക്കുകയാണ്. നിങ്ങളെല്ലാവരും മേല്പ്പുറഞ്ഞ രണ്ടു പ്രസ്സിദ്ധീകരണങ്ങളും വായിക്കണം,
ഐ ഓ സി യിലെ എല്ലാ മേത്രാച്ചന്മാരും പുരോഹിതന്മാരും വായിച്ചു പ്രബുദ്ധരാകണം. ഞാനിന്നുവരെ വായിച്ചിട്ടുള്ളവയില്‍ വച്ചേറ്റവും "മഹത്തായ " രണ്ടു പ്രസ്സിദ്ധീകരണങ്ങളാണവ. ഇവയിലെ ഭാഷാ ശൈലികളും ചിന്തയെ ഉദ്ധീപിപ്പിക്കുന്നതുമായ ആശയങ്ങളും എടുത്തു പറയേണ്ടതാണ്.

നിര്ഭാനഗ്യമെന്നു പറയട്ടെ, മേല്പ്പ്റഞ്ഞ രണ്ടിനും ജ്ഞാനപീഠം അവാര്ഡുറ കിട്ടാതെ പോയതില്‍ ഈയുള്ളവന് പ്രയാസമുണ്ട്. ഓ. എന്‍.വിയുടെ ഭാഗ്യമെല്ലാതെന്തു പറയാനാണ്. കമ്മിറ്റിക്ക് ഞങ്ങളുടെ പ്രസ്സിദ്ധീകരണങ്ങള് നേരത്തെ കിട്ടാതെ പോയത് കൊണ്ടാണ് അങ്ങനെ സംഭവിച്ചത്.
ഇത് മനസ്സിലാക്കി ഓ എന്‍ വി അവാര്ഡുറ തുകയുടെ പകുതി ഞങ്ങള്ക്ക്ര തരേണ്ടതാണ്. ഇല്ലെങ്കില്‍ പ്രശ്നമുണ്ടാക്കാന്‍ ഞങ്ങള്ക്ക്ു ഒരു മടിയുമില്ലെന്നു അദ്ദേഹം മനസ്സിലാക്കുന്നത് നല്ലത്.

Kannadi said...

ഏതാണ്ട് നാലു നൂറ്റാണ്ടോളം യുറോപ്യന്മാര്‍ ഇന്ത്യയെ അടക്കി ഭരിച്ചു സമ്പത്തുക്കള്‍ കൊള്ളയടിച്ചു. അത്രയും തന്നെ കാലത്തോളം മലങ്കര സഭയെ അന്ത്യോക്യന്‍ സഭ കൊള്ളയടിച്ചു. രണ്ടു കൂട്ടരുടെയും കൊള്ളയടിക്കു വളരെ സമാനതകളുമുണ്ട്. ( 1 ) വിദേശികളെ താങ്ങാനായി കുറെ "കിണുങ്ങ ന്മാരു" നാട്ടിലുണ്ടായിരുന്നു. (2 ) ഈ "കിണുങ്ങന്മാരുടെ" സഹായത്തോടെ വിദേശികള്‍ നാട്ടുകാരെ പരമാവദി ദ്രോഹിച്ചു.
(3 ) വിലപിടിപ്പുള്ള "രത്നങ്ങളും" മറ്റു സന്പത്തുക്കളും ധാരാളം കടത്തിക്കൊണ്ടുപോയി.
(4 ) രണ്ടാം ലോക മഹായുദ്ധത്തില്‍ ഇന്ത്യക്ക് ബ്രിട്ടിഷുകാരുടെ കൂട്ടത്തില്‍ കൂടേണ്ടി വന്നു.
അതുപോലെ മലങ്കര സഭക്ക് 1653 -ല്‍ അന്ത്യോക്യായുടെ കൂട്ടത്തില്‍ കൂടേണ്ടി വന്നു. (5) അവരില്നിമന്നും വളരെയധികം നേട്ടങ്ങള്‍ നമുക്കും ലഭിച്ചിട്ടുണ്ട്.

ഇന്ത്യയെ നാല് നൂറ്റാണ്ടു കാലം തങ്ങളാണ് ഭരിച്ചത്, ഇന്ത്യയിലെ എല്ലാ സ്വത്തുക്കളും ഇന്ത്യാ മഹാരാജ്യവും ബ്രിട്ടിഷ് രാജ്ഞിയുടെ പേരിലായി((കീഴിലായി)
രുന്നെന്നും പറഞ്ഞു ഇനിയും ബ്രിട്ടിഷുകാര്‍ ഇങ്ങോട്ട് വന്നാല്‍ അത് വക വെച്ച് കൊടുക്കാന്‍ പറ്റുമോ? ഇതേ അവസ്ഥ തന്നെയല്ലേ പത്രിക്കിസ്സു ബാവായുടെ കാര്യത്തിലും?

ഇനി മേലില്‍ ഒരു വ്യക്തിയോ സമൂഹമോ മറ്റൊരു വ്യക്തിയുടെ മെലോ സമൂഹത്തിന്റെ മെലോ അധികാരം സ്ഥാപിക്കാന്‍ തുനിയരുത്. എല്ലാവര്ക്കും ഒരുപോലെ ബാധകമാകുന്ന നിയമങ്ങള്ക്ക് വിധേയമായിരിക്കണം ഏതൊരു ഇന്സ്ടിട്യുഷനും. അതല്ലാതെ പണ്ടെങ്ങോ പൂര്വിെകരെ പറ്റിച്ചതുപോലെ ഇനിയും പറ്റിക്കണമെന്നും പറഞ്ഞു വന്നാല്‍ സാധിക്കുകയില്ല സുഹൃത്തേ. ആരുടെയെങ്കിലും അടിമയായാലെ സമാധാനം കിട്ടുകയുള്ളുവെങ്കില്‍ നിങ്ങള്‍ അങ്ങനെ ആയിക്കോളൂ. നായ്ക്കു എപ്പോഴും ഒരു യജമാനന്‍ വേണമല്ലോ

Kannadi said...

ദൈവം കാലാകാലങ്ങളില്‍ മലങ്കര സഭയെ, (ഇ. ഓ. സ) ലോഹത്തെ ചൂളയിലിട്ടു ശുദ്ധീകരിക്കുന്നത്പോലെ, ശോധന ചെയ്തു ശുദ്ധീകരിക്കുന്നുണ്ട്. അല്പസ്വല്പം നഷ്ടങ്ങള്‍ ഈ പ്രക്രിയകളിലൂടെ സംഭവിക്കുന്നത്‌ സ്വാഭാവികം മാത്രം.
പോര്ച്ചു ഗീസ്സുകാരുടെ വരവോടെ അതിനു തുടക്കമിട്ടു. വളരെയധികം മാലിന്യങ്ങള്‍ കത്തോലിക്കരുടെ രൂപത്തില്‍ മാറിക്കിട്ടി.
രണ്ടാമത്തെ ശുദ്ധീകരണം ബ്രിട്ടിഷ് മിഷനറിമാരുടെ വരവോടെയാണ്. ഇതിലൂടെ "ആംഗ്ലിക്കന്‍" എന്ന മാലിന്യം മാറിപ്പോയി.
മൂന്നാമത്തെ മാലിന്യം ബ്രിട്ടീഷുകാരിലൂടെത്തന്നെ പാലക്കുന്നത്ത് മല്പാനും കൂട്ടരുമായി (മാര്ത്തോ മ്മ) നീങ്ങി. നാലാമത്തെ ശുദ്ധീകരണം വീണ്ടും കത്തോലിക്കരിലൂടെ റീത്തായി മാറിപ്പോയി. ഇനിയുള്ള ശുദ്ധീകരണം അല്പം കഠിനമാണ്, കാരണം ഇനിയുള്ള മാലിന്യം അത്ര എളുപ്പത്തില്‍ മാറുന്നതല്ല, അത് അന്ത്യോക്യനാണ്. ഈ ശുദ്ധീകരനത്തിലൂടെയെല്ലാം സഭയുടെ വലിപ്പം
കുറഞ്ഞിട്ടുണ്ടെങ്കിലും മാറ്റ് വളരെ കൂടിയിട്ടുണ്ടെന്ന് നിസ്സംശയം പറയാം. ഇതുകൊണ്ട് ശുദ്ധീകരണം പൂര്ത്തി യായി എന്ന് കരുതാന്‍ വയ്യാ, അവിടിവിടെ കുറെ കുത്തുകളും പാണ്ടുകളും കണ്ടേക്കാം. ദൈവം അവയും നീക്കിത്തരും സംശയമില്ല. സഭയെ ഇത്രയധികം തേജസ്സികരിച്ച ദൈവത്തെ നന്ദിയോടെ സ്തുതിക്കാം. നടന്നുകൊണ്ടിരിക്കുന്ന ശുദ്ധീകരണ പ്രക്രിയ എത്രയും വേഗത്തില്‍ നടന്നു കിട്ടുന്നതിനായി
എല്ലാവരും പ്രത്യേകം പ്രാര്ത്ഥിരക്കണം.

lajy said...

I AM VERY HAPPY TO SEE MANY JACOBITE INTRUDERS IN THE SITE.MISGUIDED YOUTH. WE MUST SUPPORT THEM MORE MEMBERS WILL JOIN THEM FOR DEBATE.

Innocent said...

Dear Samji,
Only our Patriarch is known as Universal Patriarch, so he is bigger than any other Oriental or Orthodox Church heads

Reni said...

Dear Innocent

Your naming Antiochean church patriarch as 'Universal' makes no difference. In that respect, our Catholicose Didimos Bava is even more Universal as HH Didimos Bav has more faithful under him than your own Zacha Bava.

Not only that Didimos thirumeni has faithful in all continets, andal countries. Whereas your throen of Patriarh is RACIAL in nature. Majority of people (Jacobites Archdiocese of Indians) under the Antioch throne do not hold equal rights with the Arabs.
HOW CAN BE YOUR PATRIARCH BE UNIVERSAL AND BE SPECIFICALLY ARAB?

Reni said...

Innocent

Don't you feel secod rated person in your ANTIOCHEAN CHURCH?
Please do not tell me you are an independent church. Read teh constitution of th Atochean church it says clealy that their faithful in India belong to an ARCHDIOCESE under their throne, so is America etc.

But you do not have certain righst like Arabs have.

It i racial . they have put it this way: "Should be an expert in Arabic." My question to you, Inocent

SUPPOSE one of your Indian priests is eligible in all respects to become a bishop. My question Is he qualified to become a Patriarch if he is good in Arabic? (Imagine he studied Arabic in a good Arab univesity and is a Doctorate in Arabic too)

Samji said...

Dear Innocent
There is no universal Partriarch for SOC! Early Church in 4th centuary created first three and then one more as total 4 see(s) Alexandrea,rome,Antioch and Constantinaples!As West,south ,north and East of roman Empire as Partriarchs! You may say There are no oriental orthodox churches or heads!Everything Antioch!!! Moreover When you Read bible in Acts 8:1-14St. Peter was sent by other apostles to Samaria and he has to give account of his activities to Jerusalem Church!In Gal,2:9 Apostle Paul describes that St.Peter,St.James and and St.John were preaching among jews and Paul was given the gospelwork among Gentiles!From the above scripture verses it is Clear there were no universal Patrtriarch in the early Church!or no supremacy by St.Peter or his successors were in force!

Samji said...

Dear Innocent
When Did Your Holy Father in Antioch become universal Partriarch?What year Universal/Global synod did meet?Another Jacobite wrote in SOCM that Syrian Parttriarch do not claim "universal supremacy "like Pope of Roman Catholic Church!If Such Case why do they claim head of MOSC/IOC? During Jacob Bardeaus's time due to Persecution he was ordained By Alexandrean Church! This means Jacob Bardeaes(yakkob Burdhana)become Bishop of Antioch through Alexandrean Church Ordination!How come now Alexandrean(Coptic)church do not claim supremacy over Antiochean Church?
Jesus Christ,told his disciples/apostles during passover feast "but among you on the contrary,who he is greatest among you ,let him be the youngest,and the leader must be servant(luke22:26)! How can your Antioch Partriarch can become Universal Partriarch?

Innocent said...

Why do you people attack my faith? Let me tell you one thing, don’t try to brain wash me. I am not concerned whether an Indian becomes Patriarch or not, but we are happy to have one of the Bishops from Antioch as our Patriarch always. Will any of our Indian Bishops have their personality, glamour, color and knowledge of our Syriac language. May be you guys may say that I am telling this because of the existing issues you see in our church to make a bishop the next catholicose.
Who is this shelly? How can he say all our Bishops are Catholicose aspirants. If that is an issue then our Prince Patriarch can even consider making a few regional Catholicos. Our Church is growing. We have now 32 Bishops and 5 more is going to be consecrated shortly. With that our church in Malankara will become the biggest with the most number of Bishops.
Patriarch has full authority on the Malankara Church and we don’t have an issue in following his order as long as he takes it. Why is Shelly saying that our Bishops will join Gurgan. Is he still around? I don’t think anybody will join his counterfeit Amayanoor CG as he has his own codes of canon and changes it according to his convenience. Only some fools from your church will join him to become Bishops. Can you tell me a single person who joined him from our church?
Now don’t try to boil water to cook some soup out of the issue in our church. There is no issue as you people think. Even if there is any issue, once our Prince Patriarch and Thomas Bava says that will be the end of it and there will be no publication to spread the gossip. Whereas in your case you have atleast half a dozen publications to spread the gossip and your own people believe it. So you guys take care of your problems rather than imagining problems in our church. Our church will grow from strength to strength. Don’t envy us.

madhu said...

Mr. Shelli John,
thankal adhyame ethengilu manoroga doctore kondu parishodhippikku. allengil cheviyil chemparathipoovu vachondu nadaku

lajy said...

DEAR INNOCENT
Christianity ….One Christ, One Bible Religion…

But the Latin Catholic will not enter Syrian Catholic Church.

These two will not enter Marthoma Church .

These three will not enter Pentecost Church .

These four will not enter Salvation Army Church.

These five will no enter Seventh Day Adventist Church .

These six will not enter Orthodox Church.

These seven will not enter Jacobite church.
Like this there are 146 castes in Kerala alone for Christianity,

each will never share their churches for fellow Christians!

How shameful..! One Christ, One Bible, One Jehova???
Now Muslims..! One Allah, One Quran, One Nebi....! Great unity?
Among Muslims, Shia and Sunni kill each other in all the Muslim countries.

The religious riot in most Muslim countries is always between these two sects.

The Shia will not go to Sunni Mosque.

These two will not go to Ahamadiya Mosque.

These three will not go to Sufi Mosque.

These four will not go to Mujahiddin mosque.

Like this it appears there are 13 castes in Muslims.
Killing / bombing/conquering/ massacring/. .. each other !

The American attack on Iraq was fully supported by all the Muslim countries surrounding Iraq !

One Allah, One Quran, One Nebi....????
Hindus -
They have 1,280 Religious Books, 10,000 Commentaries, more than 100,000 sub-commentaries for these foundation books, innumerable presentations of one God, variety of Aacharyas, thousands of Rishies, hundreds of languages.

Still they all go to All other TEMPLES and they are peaceful and tolerant and seek unity with others by inviting them to worship with them whatever God they wish to pray for!
Hindus never quarreled one another for the last ten thousand years in the name of religion.
THERE IS NO POWER STRUGGLE

Ravi George said...

Hindus never quarreled one another for the last ten thousand years in the name of religion.

How ignorant is the person who wrote this! In fact this is a Hindu fanatic's claim, I have read it in many sites.

In yesterday's new paper there was a news item that a Muslim child was denied the ceremony of introduction to the world of letters at a temple for his religious belief. What does a 3 year old child knows!

The entry to churches and mosques are not banned for anyone. The famous Vaiom Satyagraha was fought by poor hindus for permission to enter into the temple. During the temple they were not even allowed to go near the temple road!

There is no other religion like the HInduism which descriminates on the basis of his birth caste.

You can change any faith in Christianity, Islam on faith or ideoplogy. It is the personal choice to go to any place o worship. But you are welcome there!
Can a non-Hindu Guruvayoor temple? Leave it there are many temples in states like Tamil Nadu where lower case people are not allowed to worship. It is only in Hinduism that high caste and low caste haet each oter , not for any faith but for his birth caste.

Reni said...

Lagy has taken this from a fundamentalist Hindu site.

Are you sure that Hindus have not fought among themselves for the last 10000 years? What a joke!

If he says 'No'I can only sympathise with his knowledge of history

Innocent said...

Dear Lajy,
I didn't understand head and tail of your posting. What are you trying to convey. If you want to write something to me do it clearly like Samji, Ravi and others, so that I can share my view points.

Reni said...

'The American attack on Iraq was fully supported by all the Muslim countries surrounding Iraq!'

Under saddam Hussein, Iraq turned into a mad nation which troubled peace of Arabs. So when US offered help they accepted it. Don't think they will welcome attacks on any Muslim nation.

What about our land India?

It was mostly Hindu kings who helped all foreigners to conquer this land of ours.

No need to write further. Let us close this unnecessary topic which divert our main topic

Reni said...

PATRIARCH CAN NEVER BE UNIVERSAL AND THEN BE SPECIFICALLY AN ARAB. First let hism she dthis word 'ARAB' from his constitution then we'll consider his 'universatality'

Samji said...

Dear Innocent
we are not Jealous or envy of your Church/ its growth!You Claim Succession from St.Peter in Antioch,and you are minus among Oriental orthodox and other Churches! Do not claim any glamour by self! You Only show glamour in Celeberating 101/151,(which was not tradition of orthodox church) h.Qurbana and Robes glamour worn by external appearance of your Bishops!Otherwise no Glamour or growth in SOC!

thomas said...

പിളരട്ടങ്ങേനെ പിളരട്ടെ.. അന്തോയ്ക്യയും പിളരട്ടെ ..
മലങ്കര സഭയ്കിട്ടു വെച്ചവനെ .. നിന്നോടാരു ഗുണം ചെയ്യും !
ക്നാനായ ഭദ്രാസനം പോലെ ചെറിയ ഭദ്രസനങ്ങളായി ഇതെല്ലം ഒന്ന് വെട്ടി മുറിച്ചു മിഴുങ്ങനാണ് തീത്തൊസ് മേത്രാചെന്‍ പാത്രീകീസിനു ബുദ്ധി പറഞ്ഞു കൊടുത്തിരിക്കുന്നത്‌. പ്രഥമന്റെ കാലം കഴിഞ്ഞാല്‍ മഫ്രിയാനയും ഗോപി !!!

Ravi George said...

Innocent, some straight questions:

1. Don't you feel angry and ashamed that your church leaders are involved in planning and executing the murder of Malankara Vaghese, an innocent Orthodox faithful?

2. Don't you think Indians are efficient and mature enough to manage their own church affairs?

3. Why do Indians need to proclaim some outsider as spiritual head of the church when they themselves do not want to share this seat with anyonelse?

4. ACTUALLY, Jacobites are NOT a sabha (as per Antioch definition). You belong to the Archdiocese of India. How come you call youself a SABHA and have a 'Jacobite costitution'?

Hope you will answer my questions.

Abraham said...

I am sure that this innocent is not from jacobite faction. He is orthodox, and pretending to be jacobite and ridicules them by telling senseless words.

Innocent said...

Dear Ravi,
Here are the answers

1. I do feel sorry for any death. But the fact regarding Malankara Varghese that he died of an heart attack has already been authenticated by our Viswasamrakshakan and also our Thomas Bava has confirmed this to the CBI. So there is no question of we murdering Malankra Varghese. After all one way or another we all should go from this world at the appropriate time. Whatever other says I do sympathies for the loss to the family of Malankara Varghese. May his Soul rest in Peace.

2. Take the example of the recent common wealth games. Inspite of India having people like Kalmadi, we still went and got a Nuzelander to manage the show. Why, because we are no good in managing. Our country had the best president in Abdul Kalam and has the best Prime Minister in Man Mohan Sigh. What difference does it make? People are the same old sundry. As such personally I feel there is not going to be any impact if an Indian becomes Patriarch. So it is better that we have a foreigner as the Patriarch always

3. If you really look at it Jesus is a Jew and is a foreigner. If we can consider him God, what is wrong in considering a foreigner as Patriarch. We all fancy foreign goods. See the latest. Even C.G went to Gurgon only because he is a foreigner, otherwise he could have managed it here.

4. What the Antiochians think of us is not important, what we think of them is important to us. To us they are everything.

5. Regarding Sabha & constitution, I have already wrote about this. Every body has got one now a days. Even I understand CG has one. So we also have one. As an organized church in India, we are bound to have one. That doesn’t mean that our constitution over rules the Antiochian. We are bound to follow them and we will as we are Satya vishwasa samrakshakar. Why we call ourselves as a Sabha is because we have our own way of conducting the services independently of our church subject to approval from Antioch. The Patriarch has given us some reserved rights which you people do not have and that is what makes us better than you guys.

Hope I have clarified your questions. You are welcome for more provided it does not irritates me.

Slomo

Samji said...

Dear Innocent
Modern soups are not boiled in cold water! Now a days some soup mix are put in boiled water and stir well in order to become delicate and taste!
About publications/periodical,You have also got " Manja Pathrangal"who always like gossips or internet media only promoting lies/false statements!

Innocent said...

Who is this Lajy and Samji - both ending with 'ji' totally confusing, please write clearly what you want to say. Don't confuse.
slomo

Ravi George said...

Innocent,
You are an expert in twisting and manipulation...YOU are a Real shishya of THOMAS BAVA....By the by, are you related to Thomas Bava or at least from his native place?

But now look into this posting.

Reni said "PATRIARCH CAN NEVER BE UNIVERSAL AND THEN BE SPECIFICALLY AN ARAB. First let hism she dthis word 'ARAB' from his constitution then we'll consider his 'universatality'

What you have to say on this very serious allegation? I am sure you can't because here the Patriarch is doing a terrible mistake by extending his power beyond his reach. At the same HH is not letting THomas Thirumeni reaching his own people in AMERICA...

Juby said...

Dear Innocent,

Are you really from Jcobite church? If you are really a Jacobite member, please stop writting nonsense. Your immature comments are spoiling the name of Jacobite church.

Aby Isac

Nireeshakan said...

The discussion has been blindly moving against the throne. From ancient time the control of the society is limited to the ruling people or countries. Eg like British, Rome, Antioch as well as at present we could see America as a global leader. Those people or countries are ruling others by their power and money. But some people/countries overcome those things from their struggles, which mean whether it’s eradicated entirely? In the case of India we got the freedom from British, but still we are under some of the global leaders, that is they may not be present in India but they are ruling from their own country .
How its happening, Political parties depend developed countries for their vote bank or immediate development. This is only one case...

Christ is from Jerusalem but could we imagine breaking the link from there? The whole Christian base is there. When Christians comes as organized group automatically there will be a ruling class.

So what I am trying to say is rulers are every where, if the patriarch is ruling from Antioch, here if we scrutinize logically, Orthodox’s are ruling from their own Sabha itself, who are the managing committee members, most of them from business families or some upper class people. So the rulers is very close to power and money every where.
As far as I know there are few dalits churches in Orthodox Sabha; is there any bishop or any priest from their community? So still the traditional ruling follows those marginalized groups. There is a sad thing occurred recently in one of the orthodox dalit church. The priest didn’t come for mass on resurrection day. The people had a long wait. If it’s happening in any other church what will be the consequences? So this is the time to think our inner ruling and Brahmanical tradition. We need to address mainly these type of things in the forum.

The rulers need sensational issues all the time then only they can conceal their drawbacks. So come out of these sensational issues and fight against the social implications inside the church. Then only we could say we are the followers of Christ.

Samji said...

Dear Innocent
If you are confused that is something ,somewhere wrong!It is not the names that are confused on Blog comments,but you are confused of yourselves as you don't know what you are commenting!
The best thing is not comment on things that you do not know!Some people think themselves that they are too wise or they know everything but in reality they are
zero/nothing!

Innocent said...

Dear Ravi,
Our Patriarch has better control outside India so there is nothing wrong in he controlling our people outside India. After all our Thomas Bava has enough followers in India and he at times only sleep a few hours every day visiting our faithful around India. So in a way our Patriarch is helping our Thomas Bava by shepherding our faithful abroad. This is a mutual understanding.
Now with regard to my relation with Thomas Bava. I would love to have, May be who knows I may get married into his family if he has got any girls to be married from his family. I really admire Bava for his staunch Antiochian spirit. There is no one matching to that spirit. Even I don't think Valiya Thirumeni of Alluva had that spirit. This is top class.
Now Juby,
What is the nonsense you are talking about my faith? You want me get my birth certificate notorised?

George Joseph said...

LOOK AT THE PHOTO IN MOTV DATED 20TH OCTOBER HONOURING MR M KURIAN.IF THIS HAPPENS TO BE A REALITY,. . . . . . . . .
###GEORGE JOSEPH###

vilayl said...

Before making a comment one should have some amount of knowlegde about church, religion and it's importance. Religion is a man made institution. None of the Avatars or Prephets created one. They come up with spiritually inspired ideas or doctrines- to make people to be aware that man must take full resposibility for their action. By making positive changes- the way you think, say, and act- will make you much more closer to God. Humanity will suffer without proper application of "Love", as Jesus said "Love one another". When you condense the the philosophy of Christ it is all about love. The moment we lose our ability to serve humanity we lost the touch with Divinity. Along with Prayers and Meditation "unconditional service to humanity" will make us all closer to "Divine reality". Some take a choice of sticking their mind on earthly actuality knowingly or unknowingly.

Malankara Orthodox TV said...

Marupady Parayan Pattathathu Kondu Ezhuthy Vidunnathu!!!
Pl. Visit
http://www.malankarasyriacvoice.com/pdf/psych_disorder_of_methran_kakshis.pdf

Evolution said...

dear friends, i don't know whether any of you will read this. And i also believe that even if you ppl read it, any of you will get changed. I am not in favour of the " Jacobites" or the "Orthodox". I am an agnostic person who out of my inability to form a group of mine( agnostic, very rare.Lol) conforms to the jacobite church where i am born. You can go through the blog I own if interested.

http://www.mygospel-evolution.blogspot.com/

i strongly believe religion as a tool in the hands of imperialist forces as the romans or the turks used it to exert their power over other parts of the world( Catholic church,The orthodox church, islam etc). i appreciate the urge on the part of IOC for freedom from forign rule. At the same time, I am worried by the lack of discipline, hostility, not really understanding what is going on over the world. I will say "If jacobites are a person idiots Indian orthodox are stupid". Only question left is who is milder.

If real freedom is intended IOC bishops shoould change the dress code as in the case of legendary figure "Hoja nazreddin" a turk ( Syrian church was initially rooted at turkey) and use qurbana toattlly in malayalam. the syrian should be taken away from holy churches name. As one of my friend commented, all the orthodox churches are not having this dress code( in fact, no other church except the church of antioch) and same traditions, and i am quiet sure about this. The jacobite fools are not aware that there can be red wrapped evils( but, not only in antiochian church). i am stopping here with a last word " freedome is good, but it does not really mean indiscipline, and malicious mind"

Evolution said...

There is one thing to be mentioned. This "INNOCENT' is not at all innocent and he is not a person from Jacobite church. my rational mind says so. This kind of sarcastic and dirty mind is very common in southern kerala starting from kottayam than northern kerala LOl....That was half joke

Evolution said...

One more thing being a member of jacobite church and after reading all the comments I understand that faithful of IOC are as agressive and stupids as the Jacobites and are more cunning to make the Jacobites as murderers, aggressors etc. in front of other communities.And I learned all the church feud only when i had to live in Orthodox student centre at Thiruvanathapram for 2 yrs, than my 17 yrs at my home town Kolenchery!!! Stop making Malankara Varghese murder as a tool against Jacobites. we know what happened in that case. I would have stood for IOC if those ppl had something in thier brains which the jacobites are not having.

Innocent said...

Evolution,
Eventhough you wanted us to feel you as a neutral belonging to a neutral camp. I could smell you. Don't play the role of a Shikhandi. Now don't think that the Jacobite church consists of only intelligence pretending people like you. There are also very common people like me to whom Antioch is every thing. Either stand for the church or get out. You visualising me from south of Kottayam makes me feel whether your brain is in the right place. By you labeling me as a Thekkan has questioned my integrity. How dare did you do that? Are you evolved out of Cloning? Then I can't blame you.

Evolution said...

@ "Innocent"...Its true innocent.I know there are very few intelligent pretending ppl with you. And more over wisdom is not to be boasted.i could "smell" your wisdom when you were mocking on a person who wrote in malayalam using english letters. "pnne njaan evolve cheythathano clone aano ennokke ninte cheenja thalayil kettanam ennenikkillaaa.. You have got integrity??!! even after being an IOC aggressor and "thekkan", acting as a Jacobite and "Vadakkan" itself prove you a Eunuch.

Vayaliparamban said...

This is not Evolution but illusion.

Evolution either got admission to the MGOCSM Student centre by manipulating his certificate pretending as an Orthodox Church member or he was denied admission or dismissed from the centre. Now he is revealing as if the student centre was a fanatic training institution.

I have only heard good about the student centre all through out my life. My youngest son was a student of Trivandrum student centre and I need to confess that after going astray with his prayer habits during his graduate studies at Alwaye U.C, he got back the old habit of regular prayers only because of his stay at this student centre while doing his P.G. And when you hear nonsense from a person who doesn’t have a name or a house name to claim is coming out with an allegation about the prestigious student centre I need to pen in a few words.

This variety of people are rampant in the puthencruz society. Just see Babu Paul, he is still considered to be a peace loving person by a few guys in our church who strongly believe that it will never take place because of the very nature of this type of personalities.

A few years ago two kitchen staff belonging to the society church had to leave from Pazhaya Seminary who got into work by claiming as Orthodox Church members and they did spy work and also tried to remove important things from the seminary. Also there was one in Devalokam. Unfortunately, we have the habit of only looking at the person who is recommending them.

Offlate I was surprised to see an old lady loitering at Devalokam Aramana in a glittering Sari. I was curios to know why and I came to know from the other staff she is the latest staff who landed there on the recommendation of one of our OKR Bishops. I came to know that this lady’s children are in Pentecost group. So one can expect what will be the outcome. I am not saying ladies should not be employed. But places like Devalokam Aramana is considered to be an Asramam aswell and employing ladies is wise or not is upto the authorities to decide. May be this is the first step to go in the lines of Damascus as we see many young and old nuns loitering the Patriarchal centre where HH Patriarch stays. I am sure HH Didymos Bava in his prime would never allow this.

Will any one of our church members even bother to get into any puthencruz institutions or will they take us? In short one can assess their cunningness, crookedness and ruthlessness when it comes to our church.

Kariyaachan said...

നിങ്ങളറിഞ്ഞോ ?

പത്രത്തില്‍ കാണുന്നതും, പാത്രത്തില്‍ വിളമ്പുന്നതും വേറെ, വേറെ. തോമസ്‌ പ്രഥമന്‍ ബാവായുടെ പിണിയാളുകള്‍ പാത്രിയര്‍ക്കീസിന്റെ അമേരിക്കന്‍ ഭദ്രാസനത്തിന്റെ അടിത്തറ മാന്താന്‍ കോപ്പ് കൂട്ടുന്നു. ഒക്ടോബര്‍ 23 ശനിയാഴ്ച ഏതാനും പ്രഥമന്‍ ഭക്തന്മാരായ കത്തനാരന്മാര്‍ ന്യുയോര്‍ക്കില്‍ കൂട്ടം കൂടുന്നു. പാത്രിയര്‍ക്കീസിനു കീജയ് വിളിയ്ക്കും, അകത്തിരിപ്പ് വേറെയും. എന്നാപ്പിന്നെ ഇവര്‍ക്ക് നമ്മുടെ കൂടെ കൂടിയാല്‍ പോരെ ? എന്തിനാ ഈ വേഷംകെട്ടിക്കളി? കറിയാച്ചന്‍ ഇതെല്ലാം അറിയിന്നുണ്ട് കേട്ടോ.

Innocent said...

Parishudha Antiochyan Pithakanmarre, Evolutionu kootayirikkenamey! Nerum Nerriyum ullavanayittu shishtayussu kazhiyumarakanamey! Anthegana, Udakkiya thanthayodu koorondengillalley gunum pidikku. Sadrsha vakyangal ivan vayichu kannilla.

Evolution said...

Excuse me Mr."Innocent'. I am not going to answer any of your comments. You are over flowing with wisdom. @vayaliparamban, brother i did not tell that orthodox student centre as a terrorist training camp.Did I? I told that i learned all the church feud when I was there. and that too from my friends who are very good but extremists when it comes to the matter of church.I hope that OSC still admits all people including hindu brothers as when i was there. Pinne " vayaliparamban" enna otta perukondu motham identity-um aakumo? I am Pradeep Andrews from vayalattu family. Athikam velippeduthaan enikku bhayamundu, both sides are filled with extremists like this "innocent" who has "learned" his geneology..

lajy said...

JACOBITES ARE MAKING KERALA A KASHMIR LIKE SITUATION ONLY THING THEY HAVE NOT INVOLE IN TERRIOSM BY GOD GRACES THEY ARE in MINIORITY IF they were MAJORITY THEY WILL BREAK KERALA AND JOIN WITH SYRIAN.There head of the state will be Patriarch.They may deny this but this is the truth. INDIAN STATE SHOULD CONSIDER THIS GROUP HAS SECOND GRADE CITIZEN LIKE IN SYRIAN ONLY FOR MUSLIM.
INDIAN COURT WILL NEVER GIVE JUDGEMENT IN FAVOUR OF FORIGNER.
MANY SPIRTUAL LEADER WHO DIDENT GET POSTION THEY SIMPLY TOOK REFUGE OF PATRIARCH.PATRIACH TOOK ADVANTAGE OF THE SITUATION .GENERATION PASS BY IT HAS BECOME PATRIARCH CENTRIC .

Ebenezar said...

Dear All
In Malankara the st.thomas Christians are divided on many aspects!The Jacobite and Orthodox factions!The Jacobites are Devotees of Antioch! and Orthodox(MOSC/IOC)non devotees of Antioch!
Then the divisions among christians southern/northern people! Why do we have to think about it!In Christ there are no divisions!
These divisions were created by foreigners here for colonisation in Malankara!St.Thomas Christians should have their identity and unity as one among themselves for Christ's sake!
Before the indian people we Malankara Nazranis are supposed to shine as real followers of Christ! However we show our true colour/conduct that we are just like gentiles who do not belong to Christ!We are imperfect and unrighteous people before God and Other Non- Christians! Let us overcome all our evil desires for the sake of Christ!

rinsam2002 said...

Dea All
The Indian Church/malankara church are not part of Antiochean Church based in Damascus!The Antiochean like any European country who tried to Colonise india did the same!However the Malankara Nazranikal who are standing front forth of Antiocheans should also rember that Antiocheans are only interested in Colonisation and wealth,supremacy from Malankara church! They Never showed any Spirit of Love,Christianity in Malankara!
Now those Devotees of Antioch in Malankara,think/consider their passport/visa to heaven are from Antiochean Partriarch or his Throne!
Jesus has the Keys of Hades and of Death (rev 1:18)He is the King of King and ruler over the kings of earth!Jesus Christ loved us and washed us from our sins in His own Blood!The seven churches mentioned in revelation and status are now seen in Malankara as Epesus church are Lovelss,Smyrna for persecution,Pergamos for copromising with devil,Thyatira for corruption,Sardis is for Dead,Laodikia church> Lukewarm, church in Philadelphia for faithfulness!
can we Malankara Nazranis,either Jacobite or MOSC can stand before God/Christ overcoming the seven imperfections/guilts!

jollymalayil said...

അപ്പഴേ കരിയാച്ചാ..ഇത് കേട്ടാല്‍ തോന്നും ഗ്രുപ്പ് യോഗമൊന്നും അമേരിക്കയിലെ മെത്രാന്‍ കക്ഷിയില്‍ അച്ഛന്‍ മാര്‍ക്ക് ഇല്ലാന്ന്. ബിഷപ്പ് നിക്കൊലോവാസ് നിട്ടു പണിയാന്‍ യോഗം എത്രയാണ് കൂടുന്നതെന്ന് എല്ലാവര്ക്കും അറിയാം. പിന്നെ ബര്‍ന്നബാസ് മെത്രാനെ റിട്ടയര്‍ ചെയ്യിക്കാന്‍ തന്ത്രം മെനയുന്ന യോഗങ്ങള്‍ മറുവശത്ത്.
താങ്കള്‍ പറഞ്ഞ യാക്കോബായ വിമത അച്ചന്മാര്‍ തീത്തോസ് മേത്രാനിട്ടു പാര പണിയാന്‍ തുടങ്ങിട്ട് കുറചു ആയി. അന്തോക്ക്യ നേതാവായിരുന്നു ഇയ്യിടെ കോറി ആയ കത്തനാരും, അറ്റ്‌ലണ്ട യിലെ ആളില്ലാ പള്ളിയിലെ ഒരു കോറിയും, കോറി പദം സ്വപ്നം കാണുന്ന അറ്റ്‌ലങ്ടായിലെ മുന്‍ സെക്രട്ടറി കത്തനാരും , അളിയന്‍ മാര്‍ക്ക് സ്വന്തമായി ഒരു പള്ളി തരപ്പെടുത്തി കൊടുത്ത ഒരു Egoppan ന്യൂ യോര്‍ക്ക്‌ കോറി യുടെയും പാമ്പും കോണി യും കളി ആണ് കറിയാച്ചന്‍ അവര്‍കളുടെ ബഡാ ന്യൂസ്‌. ഇത്തരം കളിയൊക്കെ നമ്മള്‍ എത്ര കണ്ടതാണ്.
കരിയാച്ചാ ...മറ്റുള്ളവരെ ചൊറിയാതെ സ്വയം ചൊറിയുവാന്‍ ശ്രമിക്കുക .
ശ്ലോമോ ..........

Kariyaachan said...

ന്യുയോര്‍ക്കിലെ കൊങ്ങ്കെര്സ് എന്ന പ്രദേശത്തുള്ള എന്റെ ഒരു സുഹൃത്ത് രാവിലെ നടക്കാന്‍ ഇറങ്ങിയതാ. വഴിയോരത്തുള്ള ഒരു മേതോടിസ്റ്റ് ചര്‍ച്ചിന്റെ പാര്‍ക്കിംഗ് ലോട്ടില്‍ പരിചയക്കാര്‍ ഏതാനും പേരും, അല്ലാത്തവരായി ഒരു പത്തുപന്ത്രണ്ടു പേരും. ആദ്യം പരിചയക്കാരോട് ഹലോ പറയാന്‍ പോയ എന്റെ കൂട്ടുകാരന്‍ ചിക്കാഗോയില്‍ നിന്ന് വന്ന പെന്തക്കൊസ്ത്ത്/മാര്‍ത്തോമ്മാ വിഭാഗത്തില്‍ പെട്ട അപരിചിതരില്‍ ചിലരെയും പരിചയപ്പെട്ടു. സംസാരത്തില്‍ നിന്നും പിടികിട്ടി ചിക്കാഗോക്കാര്‍ അവിടുത്തെ ഒരു പാത്രിയര്‍ക്കീസ് സിംഹാസനപ്പള്ളി നടത്തുന്ന കത്തനാര്‍ക്ക് കൂട്ട് വന്നതാണ് എന്ന്. അച്ഛന്‍ തീത്തോസ് മെത്രാന്റെ അമേരിക്കന്‍ ഭദ്രാസന കൌണ്‍സില്‍ അംഗമാണ് പോലും. വേറെ ന്യുയോര്ക്കിലുള്ള രണ്ടു കോറികളും അറ്റ്‌~ലാന്ടക്കാരന്‍ ഒരു കോറിയും മറ്റൊരു അച്ഛനും പിന്നെ പേരിനു മാത്രം ഒരച്ഛനായ ഒക്ലഹോമാക്കാരനും ...ആകെക്കൂടി നമ്മുടെ ഭാഷയില്‍ ആരാച്ചാരന്മാര്‍ ആറു പേര്‍. നാട്ടിലാണെങ്കില്‍ ഇവരെല്ലാം ബാവാക്കക്ഷിക്കാരാ. നമ്മുടെ സത്യസഭയോട് ഗുസ്തി പിടിയ്ക്കുന്ന കൂട്ടര്. ഇവിടെ അവരുടെ ബാവയെ ഇപ്പോ അവര്‍ക്ക് പുല്ലാ. തോമസ്‌ പ്രഥമനു ഈയിടെ പാത്രിയര്‍ക്കീസ് കൊടുത്ത കിഴുക്കിനു കാരണക്കാരനായ മാര്‍ തീത്തോസിന്റെ ഉറക്കം കെടുത്താന്‍ കഴിഞ്ഞാല്‍ അതൊരു ത്രില്ലാ അവര്‍ക്ക്. അതിനായി ആളെക്കൂട്ടാന്‍ തിക്കിത്തെരക്കി നടപ്പാണ്. അവരെല്ലാംകൂടി ഒരു ബദല്‍ മീറ്റിങ്ങിനു എത്തിയതാണ് . ന്യുയോര്‍ക്കുകാരന്‍ കോറിയാണെങ്കില്‍ നമ്മുടെ കൂടെ ചേര്‍ന്ന ഒരു കത്തനാരുടെ ഉറക്കം കെടുത്താന്‍ ശ്രമിച്ച് തോറ്റു തുന്നം പാടിയയാളുമാണ്. കൃമി നല്‍സും അവരുടെ ഗ്രൂപ്പ് നേതാക്കന്മാരായി ഉണ്ടെന്നു കേള്‍ക്കുന്നു. ആ കൃമികള്‍ ഒഴികെ ബാക്കിയുള്ളവര്‍ക്ക് കൊങ്ങേര്സില്‍ ഒരു പള്ളി വച്ചുകൊടുത്താല്‍ അവര്‍ നമ്മള്‍ക്കൊരു മുതല്‍ക്കൂട്ട് ആയേക്കാമെന്നാണു എന്റെ കൂട്ടുകാരന്റെ കണക്കുകൂട്ടല്‍ ഏതായാലും അവര്‍ കടിപിടി കൂട്ടട്ടെ, നമുക്ക് കാണാം വഴിയെ.

Kariyaachan said...

ന്യുയോര്‍ക്കുകാരന്‍ കോറിയാണെങ്കില്‍ നമ്മുടെ കൂടെ ചേര്‍ന്ന ഒരു കത്തനാരുടെ ഉറക്കം കെടുത്താന്‍ ശ്രമിച്ച് തോറ്റു തുന്നം പാടിയയാളുമാണ്. കൃമി നല്‍സും അവരുടെ ഗ്രൂപ്പ് നേതാക്കന്മാരായി ഉണ്ടെന്നു കേള്‍ക്കുന്നു. ആ കൃമികള്‍ ഒഴികെ ബാക്കിയുള്ളവര്‍ക്ക് കൊങ്ങേര്സില്‍ ഒരു പള്ളി വച്ചുകൊടുത്താല്‍ അവര്‍ നമ്മള്‍ക്കൊരു മുതല്‍ക്കൂട്ട് ആയേക്കാമെന്നാണു എന്റെ കൂട്ടുകാരന്റെ കണക്കുകൂട്ടല്‍ ഏതായാലും അവര്‍ കടിപിടി കൂട്ടട്ടെ, നമുക്ക് കാണാം വഴിയെ.

Kariyaachan said...

എബനേസര്‍ സഹോദരാ,

നമസ്ക്കാരം. Faction, faction എന്നൊക്കെ പറഞ്ഞു നമ്മളെ കളിപ്പിയ്ക്കലല്ലോ മുകളിരിയ്ക്കുന്നവരുടെ പണി. ...നമുക്കും കിട്ടണം പണം !! സാധാരണക്കാര്‍ കഴുതകളല്ലയോ എബനേസരെ. എന്നാല്‍ ഈ അമേരിക്കന്‍ ബാവാക്കക്ഷിക്കാര്‍ക്ക് ഇപ്പൊ എന്ത് പറ്റി? നാട്ടില്‍ ബാവാക്കക്ഷി, ഇവിടെ പ്രഥമന്‍ കക്ഷി. ആകാശത്തിലെ ബാവയ്ക്ക് ഒരു കക്ഷിയുമില്ലായെന്നു ഇവറ്റകള്‍ക്ക് അറിയാമോ ആവോ! അമേരിയ്ക്കയിലെ നമ്മുടെ പള്ളികളില്‍ പണ്ടുകാലം മുതലേ കുറെ ബാവാക്കക്ഷിക്കാര്‍ കയറിപ്പറ്റിയിട്ടുണ്ട്. ഇവിടെ നമ്മുടെ കൂടെക്കൂടും, നാട്ടില്‍ ചെന്നാല്‍ പ്രഥമന്റെ അടുക്കളയിലെ ആള്‍ക്കാരെപ്പോലെയാണ് താനും ...നാട്ടില്‍ പൂണ്ട യാക്കോബായക്കാര്‍! നപുംസകങ്ങള്‍ എന്നേ ഞാനവരെ വിളിയ്ക്കു. ഓര്‍ത്ത്‌ നോക്കിയാല്‍ ചിലപ്പോള്‍ ഒരെത്തും പിടിയുമില്ലാത്ത സ്വഭാവക്കാര്‍. എനിയ്ക്ക് തോന്നുന്നത് അമേരിയ്ക്കയിലെ പാത്രിയര്‍ക്കീസ് പക്ഷക്കാര്‍ ചിലര്‍ക്ക് സ്വബോധം തിരികെവന്ന പോലെയാ. പാത്രിയര്‍ക്കീസിനും സിന്നടിനും എതിരെ തിരിഞ്ഞിട്ടു മഫ്രിയാന്റെ കക്ഷിക്കാരായി. നമ്മളെ മെത്രാങ്കക്ഷിക്കാര്‍ എന്ന് വിളിച്ച് അവഹേളിയ്ക്കുന്ന ഇവരെ ഇനി എന്നാ കക്ഷിക്കാരെന്നു വിളിയ്ക്കണം?

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