These criticisms on the Marthoma Church will not be entertained by some of our Ecumenical addicted Bishops, Priests and laymen. But they don't realise they are selling their mother by criticising her. Unless commonsense prevail amongst this lot we cannot be proud of our Church. This meeting is just like that old movie "mandanmar londonil'. All the ones who sold their mother have united to criticise her once again. One more opportunity for the Antiochiya clad to say Antiochyaa yee marakoola. Shameless lot
I am really sorry that Marthoma Church is slowly falling into a trap. So far they had the respect of all the churches. They have just inaugurated the year-long function. Before the closing ceremony, Marthoma Church will be different. Both the duplicate catholicoses have ulterior motives. Marthoma Church will learn only after associating with them.
What Reformation are these jonies talking about? Abraham Malpan had personal agenda and finally his followers started Naveekaranam. What is this Reformation all about? Simply makes no sense. All dissident activities. Fortunately and quiet rightly they called the leaders of the two leading dissident groups Thomas Pradhamam and Kleemis Bava. The Pentecostal groups who are the real reformation group were not invited. May be they are revolutionists in reformation. They can be proud of being the legitimate reformationists.
We should not have any ecumenism with these group who create division and may be a group by the name dissidenism should be formed for this lot, where our church will never can be members.
There was a news some 10 days back that a sort of committee was formed to prepare a fitting reply to Joseph Marthoma Metropolitan. Has this been done? If so, can we get a copy? Mr Vayaliparamban has made a passing comment, "OUR ECUMINISM ADDICTED BISHOPS". It seems our leadership has a wrong perception on ecuminism. Whenever I had attended ecumenic programmes, the effective ecumenism was praying together without "HAIL MARY". For the sake of ecuminism, we the Orthodox and our Jacobite brothren happily avoid "HAIL MARY" to please others, but the others never join in "HAIL MARY"for ecuminism to please us. What I suggest is all our ecuminic activities should be centred on co operation with other Orthodox Churches ie Oriental as well as Bisentian.We have lot of areas where working together is possible. Trying to get along with Marthomites or CSI is waste of time. The present cotroversy with the infamous circular from Pulateen proves this point. ### George Joseph###
Marthoma Church wants to come to Orthodox fold and at the same tiem lead the ecumenical movement. If Marthoma Church wants to be Orthodox. let them pray like Orthodox Churches first. What they don't want to say Hail mary full of Grace..? We should keep away from ecumenical movements that does not honour Theotokos
Unfortunate events are turning us against all the other Churches. But we cannot escape doing our part in history. When others challenge our TRUE IDENTITY, it is wise to reply politeley than keeping our mouths shut. But at the same time we should NOT lose patience, love and respect for anyone. BUT WE SHOULD BE FIRM ABOUT TRUTH. TRUTH WILL TRIUMPH.
So I humbly request all the Church members to stand united and help the church leaders, fathers, theologians, writers, and intelectuals.
We don't want our leaders to desert us at this moment of crisis because for some of them are inlcined to seeking respect from other shepherds of other churches than taking care of their own sheeps. Such sherphreds are theives as Jesus said.
Thanks for understanding my comment on 'Ecumenism addicted Bishops'. All these Ecumenism guys succumb to others pressure by avoiding Hail Mary Prayer and that is one of the curse our church is facing. We should stay away from all those who does not give importance to St.Mary. Will any of our Bishops take the brave step of saying the prayer of St.Mary during the ecumenical meeting. Those who have an issue against St.Mary let them keep quiet and if they can't take it let us teach them our faith. As the scripture says why to be in company with non belivers.
The Liturgy of the Holy Qurbana of St. James which was modified by Abraham Malpan was also in the original language. The Malayalam translation of the order of worship based on this (Qurbanakramam) was published only in 1872 which was after the demise of Abraham Malpan. This is evident from the statements given in the preface of the book printed at the CMS Press, Kottayam. I am attaching the scanned images of the preface in pdf. format, for your reference. I am also providing the link at which the same can be seen.
1. All the Churches that spit away from the original church founded in Malankara by ST THOMAS now want to regain the legacy. And St Thomas is central to this legacy of 2000 years.
2.These Churches split away basically because of interaction or association with FOREIGN Churches who never had any connection with ST Thomas Christians for about 1500 years.
3.The split away churches were encouraged by their foreign partners to ignore their traditions, most importantly that of St Thomas, the founder of the original Church. Even the term 'doubting Thomas' became popular among the Westerners. Indians mistook anything “FOREIGN” as something great. So lots of people left the original church to get a slice of this foreign dignity.
4.Now most of the foreign churches are passing through a state of decay and connection of these split away churches with their partner is on the vane. Those who still maintain connection are demanding more freedom and will successfully attain freedom as the foreign churches are now dependent on Indians.
5. Foreign supremacy or links are not respected now in India (a nation of 120 crore people), as it used to be in the past.
6. The strategy of the three groups under Rome (Latins, Syro Malabar and the Romo-Syrians otherwise known as Malankara Reeth), Marthoma Church who were linked to Canterbury and the Jacobites with their Arab connections are all the same. Capture the lost legacy by any means.
7. That explains the continued attack on the Orthodox Church which always stood for ST THOMAS through out the history of Malankara. The original church was sometimes under the control of the outsiders for sometime. But the real believers fought against all these foreigners. The war is still not over. Indian became free in 1947. But foreigners are still ruling the country through their Indian partners.
8 This subject has to be studied in detail and a book should be published on the sacrifices made by the fathers of the Malankara Church for the freedom of the apostolic throne of St Thomas. It should cover what were done by the foreigners to wipe out the name of St Thomas from Malankara and also the attempts made in the recent times for capturing or stealing the identity of the apostle St Thomas.
Matinee show: Malabar Marthoma Syrian presents REFORMATION, Story : Abraham Malpan, Screenplay, Dialogues : Palakunnathu Athanasios, Production and Direction : Joseph Marthoma Costumes : Universal Syrian Church
First show: Puthenkurishu society presents VAVA KAKSHI Story, Screenplay, Dialogues, Production and Direction: Thomas Pradhaman Costumes: Universal Syrian Church
Second show: Malankara Rite presents PUNARAIYKYUM Story, Screenplay, Dialogues : Mar Ivanios Panicker Production and Direction : Klemis Katholica Vava Costumes: Universal Syrian Church
why do you orthodox visvasikal always bring "the videsa"element to syian marthoma church.we are not under any videsa powers as your church which always wants to have relations with the aramic,greek and russian orthodox..and as many people think marthoma church is not a protestent church it is areformed orthodox church which is based in malankara..and some one mentioned about hidden agenda of palaeakunnathu abraham malpan..mind that his only agenda was to remove all the false teachings from malankara and even it was not his intention to form a new church...what about your connections with the antioch during the royal court cases..why is no one speaking about it and as his grace palakunnethu Joseph mar thoma metrapolitian has pointed out it has to be accepted that catholicate was established in 1912..is that the only truth?
Jeevan, Munroe Sayippinte Athmavu Thomas Josephil Kayariyathu kando? Don't ask questions to people like Thomas Joseph. It will turn out to be like that joke of Kalabhavan regarding "Mudanthan Nyam". When I was going past the market, I saw a 'mudanthan' standing and saying 'nyam'. This is what I felt after reading Thomas Joseph
Mr philip,i didn't mean to make any 'mudathan nyayam' by asking certain questions...either you or the person who commented before you didn't answer the questions I raised..i have a great respect for the orthodox church members and it is not some thing personal...don't think it that way and please make it clear
Those who file petitions against their own brothers and sisters for mere reason have no right to criticize marthoma church or its metropolitan. First learn about the church and its priciples then think twice and make a comment
Thomas said,"Those who file petitions against their own brothers and sisters for mere reason have no right to criticize marthoma church or its metropolitan".
Parayunna kettal thonnum, yakkobakar oru case polum koduthitilla ennu.. 1912 muthal 1975 vare, majority caseum ara koduthu ennu poyi thirakki nokku.....
Pavam Punnoose Thirumeniyude CAR japthi cheyyan vare case koduthu...
Yakkobakar case koduthu koduthu ellam pottti... ini caseum kondu chennal kodathi odikkum,,, atahlle muscle pidichu nikkunna thomas chetta sathyam....
where came all these foolish arguments aginst marthoma church?...... There is no "kalaham" in marthoma church . These people are trying to create it ...
Sorry I'm not discouraging it. Continue this joke .. I am waiting for the next comedy
hai we marthomites give great respect to every religion and sects for eg; L K Advani was the chief guest 4 the metropolitan's navathy celebration. Don't pls come up with false arguments that may irritate both the churches. One more thing Orthodox church cannot have an argument against Marthoma church because Orthodox is holding the record disputes with the churches and may soon enter in the Limca Book Of Records
I am ashame to say that no one in orthdox church belive in christ for example see there sabha depam magazine full of articles related to church case not a single word of god. Mar Thoma is the only church in malankara following wordings of christ and following st thomas tradition with out any foreign influence
It is sad that Mr.Kurian Thomas is using such strong words to criticize the 21st Mar Thoma Metropolitan and naveekaranam. Reformation has changed the lives of many in Malankara Church and it continues. Over the years the Syrian Mar Thoma church has grown and they are doing an incredible missionary work all over India. I was once an Orthodox member until ten years ago, but today I can proudly say that I see God's glory through Mar Thoma faith. Well, Mar Thoma Church is well known for its humanitarian work. Their leaders are more popular than any other church leaders. recently Catholicos Thomas first of Jacobite Church along with Clemis Catholicos attended the 175th anniversary of Reformation at Kozhencherry Pally. During the meeting His Beatitude along with acknowledged how much reformation has changed other churches and charismatic movements in Kerala. I am beginning to wonder why Mar Chrysostom Valiya Metropolitan is so popular in Orthodox Church today. He is the main speaker in every Orthodox function. They hate Naveekaranam, but they need our Bishops. Perhaps they are not in good terms with other Church leaders so they turned to Mar Thoma Bishops. Orthodox Church should be in the hall of shame, not in the hall of fame.
What ever these people tells, Marthoma origin is based on CMS missionaries who were the origin of reformation of church in kerala as well as a social reformation. Even Communist guys will agree it. Marthoma church priest are wearing cassoak like anglicans(CSI), which is the clear evidance for marthoma church origin bases on anglicans,
32 comments:
Joseph Marthomayude Sookked Enthanennu M TV kku Nerathe Manasilayi. Athukondanu Adhehathinte Kalpanayum Prathikarangalum Koduthathu.
- Editor
Tharikida "Catholica"mar Ellam Pulatheenilottu Koodiyo!!!
Marthoma Sabha Chovve Nere Pokunna Oru Sabhayayirunnu. Iny Sangathy Kolamayikkollum.
Chandichayan, Puthuppally
M TV Paranjathu Marthomakkar Angeekarichallo. Chingam 15 Nanu Qurbana Cholliyathennu Manorama Varthayil Kidakkunnu. Pinnenthinanu "Nompu Veedunna" Naale Aghoshikkunnathu?
Chingam 15 Ee Varsham August 31 Nanu.
Ha.. Ha.. Haa..
These criticisms on the Marthoma Church will not be entertained by some of our Ecumenical addicted Bishops, Priests and laymen. But they don't realise they are selling their mother by criticising her.
Unless commonsense prevail amongst this lot we cannot be proud of our Church.
This meeting is just like that old movie "mandanmar londonil'. All the ones who sold their mother have united to criticise her once again. One more opportunity for the Antiochiya clad to say Antiochyaa yee marakoola. Shameless lot
"EenaamPechikku Marappattikal KootuKar" Ennathinu Mattoru Thelivu.......Koodyyyy;......Maalokareaaaa......!
"Eenaam Pechikku MaraPattikal Koottu" Maathru Sabha Vittu Poyavarude Oru Sanghamam.....Thoma Prathamane Koottu Pidikkunna Joseph Marthomayum Koottarum Orkkukaa.....Ninghalude Naveekarana Sabhayil Kalaham Aarambhichirikkunnu, sathiyammmm.....!
I am really sorry that Marthoma Church is slowly falling into a trap. So far they had the respect of all the churches. They have just inaugurated the year-long function. Before the closing ceremony, Marthoma Church will be different. Both the duplicate catholicoses have ulterior motives. Marthoma Church will learn only after associating with them.
What Reformation are these jonies talking about? Abraham Malpan had personal agenda and finally his followers started Naveekaranam. What is this Reformation all about? Simply makes no sense. All dissident activities. Fortunately and quiet rightly they called the leaders of the two leading dissident groups Thomas Pradhamam and Kleemis Bava. The Pentecostal groups who are the real reformation group were not invited. May be they are revolutionists in reformation. They can be proud of being the legitimate reformationists.
We should not have any ecumenism with these group who create division and may be a group by the name dissidenism should be formed for this lot, where our church will never can be members.
There was a news some 10 days back that a sort of committee was formed to prepare a fitting reply to Joseph Marthoma Metropolitan. Has this been done? If so, can we get a copy?
Mr Vayaliparamban has made a passing comment, "OUR ECUMINISM ADDICTED BISHOPS". It seems our leadership has a wrong perception on ecuminism. Whenever I had attended ecumenic programmes, the effective ecumenism was praying together without "HAIL MARY". For the sake of ecuminism, we the Orthodox and our Jacobite brothren happily avoid "HAIL MARY" to please others, but the others never join in "HAIL MARY"for ecuminism to please us. What I suggest is all our ecuminic activities should be centred on co operation with other Orthodox Churches ie Oriental as well as Bisentian.We have lot of areas where working together is possible. Trying to get along with Marthomites or CSI is waste of time. The present cotroversy with the infamous circular from Pulateen proves this point. ### George Joseph###
Marthoma Church wants to come to Orthodox fold and at the same tiem lead the ecumenical movement. If Marthoma Church wants to be Orthodox. let them pray like Orthodox Churches first. What they don't want to say Hail mary full of Grace..? We should keep away from ecumenical movements that does not honour Theotokos
Unfortunate events are turning us against all the other Churches. But we cannot escape doing our part in history. When others challenge our TRUE IDENTITY, it is wise to reply politeley than keeping our mouths shut. But at the same time we should NOT lose patience, love and respect for anyone. BUT WE SHOULD BE FIRM ABOUT TRUTH. TRUTH WILL TRIUMPH.
So I humbly request all the Church members to stand united and help the church leaders, fathers, theologians, writers, and intelectuals.
We don't want our leaders to desert us at this moment of crisis because for some of them are inlcined to seeking respect from other shepherds of other churches than taking care of their own sheeps. Such sherphreds are theives as Jesus said.
We should also study why are being targetted.
Thanks for understanding my comment on 'Ecumenism addicted Bishops'. All these Ecumenism guys succumb to others pressure by avoiding Hail Mary Prayer and that is one of the curse our church is facing. We should stay away from all those who does not give importance to St.Mary. Will any of our Bishops take the brave step of saying the prayer of St.Mary during the ecumenical meeting. Those who have an issue against St.Mary let them keep quiet and if they can't take it let us teach them our faith. As the scripture says why to be in company with non belivers.
The Liturgy of the Holy Qurbana of St. James which was modified by Abraham Malpan was also in the original language. The Malayalam translation of the order of worship based on this (Qurbanakramam) was published only in 1872 which was after the demise of Abraham Malpan. This is evident from the statements given in the preface of the book printed at the CMS Press, Kottayam. I am attaching the scanned images of the preface in pdf. format, for your reference. I am also providing the link at which the same can be seen.
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/philiposejoshua/ModifiedOrderOfHQ1872?feat=directlink
Prof. Dr. Philipose Joshua
Trivndrum
What was the outcome of the meeting? Did Pradhaman & Klemis Bava got reformed?
asooyakkum, kushumbinum, kannukadiykkum marunnilla ( Kashandikkulla marunnokke ippol marketil kittunnund ).... Metran kakshikalodu mattu sabhakal ethiru, samoohika nethakanmaaru ethiru, sarkaar ethiru, police ethiru.... daivame...ithraykkum opposition metran kakshikalodu maathramenthannavo ? Paavam sabha!!!
Mr Mathew
Videshiyude valupidikkan poyavar ellam thirike vannu kanunnathi santhosham. Arabiyde, Sayippinte, Romakkarude, Americakkarude, ellam pidikkan poyavarkku mathiyayo? Foreign saadhanam entha mathiyakkiyathu? Ipppo vegatthil enganeyum Narani image veendedukkanulla sramatthilanu. Our forefathers shedding tears of joy in heaven seeing this. We are happy!
Mathew
Get the facts why all others are against us:
1. All the Churches that spit away from the original church founded in Malankara by ST THOMAS now want to regain the legacy. And St Thomas is central to this legacy of 2000 years.
2.These Churches split away basically because of interaction or association with FOREIGN Churches who never had any connection with ST Thomas Christians for about 1500 years.
3.The split away churches were encouraged by their foreign partners to ignore their traditions, most importantly that of St Thomas, the founder of the original Church. Even the term 'doubting Thomas' became popular among the Westerners. Indians mistook anything “FOREIGN” as something great. So lots of people left the original church to get a slice of this foreign dignity.
4.Now most of the foreign churches are passing through a state of decay and connection of these split away churches with their partner is on the vane. Those who still maintain connection are demanding more freedom and will successfully attain freedom as the foreign churches are now dependent on Indians.
5. Foreign supremacy or links are not respected now in India (a nation of 120 crore people), as it used to be in the past.
6. The strategy of the three groups under Rome (Latins, Syro Malabar and the Romo-Syrians otherwise known as Malankara Reeth), Marthoma Church who were linked to Canterbury and the Jacobites with their Arab connections are all the same. Capture the lost legacy by any means.
7. That explains the continued attack on the Orthodox Church which always stood for ST THOMAS through out the history of Malankara. The original church was sometimes under the control of the outsiders for sometime. But the real believers fought against all these foreigners. The war is still not over. Indian became free in 1947. But foreigners are still ruling the country through their Indian partners.
8 This subject has to be studied in detail and a book should be published on the sacrifices made by the fathers of the Malankara Church for the freedom of the apostolic throne of St Thomas. It should cover what were done by the foreigners to wipe out the name of St Thomas from Malankara and also the attempts made in the recent times for capturing or stealing the identity of the apostle St Thomas.
Dear Mathew,
If you don't have the qualities mentioned above what are you trying to prove?
Go and get some followers.
Onam Release in Kerala
Matinee show:
Malabar Marthoma Syrian presents REFORMATION,
Story : Abraham Malpan, Screenplay, Dialogues : Palakunnathu Athanasios,
Production and Direction : Joseph Marthoma
Costumes : Universal Syrian Church
First show:
Puthenkurishu society presents VAVA KAKSHI
Story, Screenplay, Dialogues, Production and Direction: Thomas Pradhaman
Costumes: Universal Syrian Church
Second show:
Malankara Rite presents PUNARAIYKYUM
Story, Screenplay, Dialogues : Mar Ivanios Panicker
Production and Direction : Klemis Katholica Vava
Costumes: Universal Syrian Church
Book your tickets now!
@ Philip
Also these too ... :-)
Matinee Show
Guest Appearances Amritanandamayi, Munroe sayippinthe athmavu.
First Show
Stunts: Kottayam Muthalali CJ Kurian and kooli thallukar.
Second Show
Componder Joli at Pushpagiri free with each movie ticket.
why do you orthodox visvasikal always bring "the videsa"element to syian marthoma church.we are not under any videsa powers as your church which always wants to have relations with the aramic,greek and russian orthodox..and as many people think marthoma church is not a protestent church it is areformed orthodox church which is based in malankara..and some one mentioned about hidden agenda of palaeakunnathu abraham malpan..mind that his only agenda was to remove all the false teachings from malankara and even it was not his intention to form a new church...what about your connections with the antioch during the royal court cases..why is no one speaking about it and as his grace palakunnethu Joseph mar thoma metrapolitian has pointed out it has to be accepted that catholicate was established in 1912..is that the only truth?
@ thomas joseph
The meaning of the word 'Orthodox' meansin true faith or right worship.
How can someone REFORM what is true and correct ???
Jeevan,
Munroe Sayippinte Athmavu Thomas Josephil Kayariyathu kando?
Don't ask questions to people like Thomas Joseph. It will turn out to be like that joke of Kalabhavan regarding "Mudanthan Nyam".
When I was going past the market, I saw a 'mudanthan' standing and saying 'nyam'. This is what I felt after reading Thomas Joseph
Mr philip,i didn't mean to make any 'mudathan nyayam' by asking certain questions...either you or the person who commented before you didn't answer the questions I raised..i have a great respect for the orthodox church members and it is not some thing personal...don't think it that way and please make it clear
Those who file petitions against their own brothers and sisters for mere reason have no right to criticize marthoma church or its metropolitan. First learn about the church and its priciples then think twice and make a comment
Thomas said,"Those who file petitions against their own brothers and sisters for mere reason have no right to criticize marthoma church or its metropolitan".
Parayunna kettal thonnum, yakkobakar oru case polum koduthitilla ennu.. 1912 muthal 1975 vare, majority caseum ara koduthu ennu poyi thirakki nokku.....
Pavam Punnoose Thirumeniyude CAR japthi cheyyan vare case koduthu...
Yakkobakar case koduthu koduthu ellam pottti... ini caseum kondu chennal kodathi odikkum,,, atahlle muscle pidichu nikkunna thomas chetta sathyam....
Adhiyam muscle vidu...
where came all these foolish arguments aginst marthoma church?......
There is no "kalaham" in marthoma church .
These people are trying to create it ...
Sorry I'm not discouraging it.
Continue this joke ..
I am waiting for the next comedy
hai we marthomites give great respect to every religion and sects for eg; L K Advani was the chief guest 4 the metropolitan's navathy celebration. Don't pls come up with false arguments that may irritate both the churches. One more thing Orthodox church cannot have an argument against Marthoma church because Orthodox is holding the record disputes with the churches and may soon enter in the Limca Book Of Records
M Tv is doin a good job
I am ashame to say that no one in orthdox church belive in christ for example see there sabha depam magazine full of articles related to church case not a single word of god.
Mar Thoma is the only church in malankara following wordings of christ and following st thomas tradition with out any foreign influence
It is sad that Mr.Kurian Thomas is using such strong words to criticize the 21st Mar Thoma Metropolitan and naveekaranam. Reformation has changed the lives of many in Malankara Church and it continues. Over the years the Syrian Mar Thoma church has grown and they are doing an incredible missionary work all over India. I was once an Orthodox member until ten years ago, but today I can proudly say that I see God's glory through Mar Thoma faith.
Well, Mar Thoma Church is well known for its humanitarian work. Their leaders are more popular than any other church leaders. recently Catholicos Thomas first of Jacobite Church along with Clemis Catholicos attended the 175th anniversary of Reformation at Kozhencherry Pally. During the meeting His Beatitude along with acknowledged how much reformation has changed other churches and charismatic movements in Kerala.
I am beginning to wonder why Mar Chrysostom Valiya Metropolitan is so popular in Orthodox Church today. He is the main speaker in every Orthodox function. They hate Naveekaranam, but they need our Bishops. Perhaps they are not in good terms with other Church leaders so they turned to Mar Thoma Bishops. Orthodox Church should be in the hall of shame, not in the hall of fame.
What ever these people tells, Marthoma origin is based on CMS missionaries who were the origin of reformation of church in kerala as well as a social reformation. Even Communist guys will agree it. Marthoma church priest are wearing cassoak like anglicans(CSI), which is the clear evidance for marthoma church origin bases on anglicans,
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