Thursday, August 5, 2010

HG Joseph Marthoma's Abaddha Panjamgam

HG Joseph Marthoma's Abaddha Panjamgam by Dr. Kurian Thomas

20 comments:

sam said...

In The history Of Malnakara Church more often, the realities(real facts/actual facts) are either misreported/misinterpreted and manoeuvured for selfglorifiacation and existence of Self interested groups.
Thanks to Dr. M. Kurien Thomas for his timely response/archives report and MTV for bringing up all those information to the whole laity of Malnkara Orthodox church.

Vayaliparamban said...

Dear Kurien,
The last paragraph of your article summarises it all.
I doubt like in Manorama Office is there any Puthecruz society members employed at the office of the Marthoma Metropolitan.
Just wait and see there will be more Society members arguing against your findings.

vilsontp said...

Manorama is not belongs to MSOC. and manorama is not only read by MSOC members. So they can appoint any one irrespective of their caste and creed. But in one news i read the principal of the Engineering College run by MSOC is from PuthenCruz Society why there is no eligible and capable person from MSOC.Raise that issue.

George said...

All said and done, I am overjoyed that the Marthomites are observing the 15 day lent( August 1 to 15).Now nothing can prevent them joining us in the prayer," Kripa Niranja Mariyame. . . . "

Thampy said...

Daivathinu Oru Valiya Thanks. Oppam, Dr.M.Kurien Thomasinum. Ee Joseph Mar Thomayude Abatha Panjaamgathinu, Sabhayile Unnathar Aarum Prathikarikkathe Irikkunnathu Kandu vishamichu Irikkunna Samayathaanu Dr.M.K.T nte Ee Visadheekaranam. Athu Kalakky. Abhinandananghal. Oppam Iny "Naveekarana Suriyani" Karkku Enthu Parayanundu. Sabha History Padikkan "Valiya Methrachan" Akanamennilla......."Sadha Anmeny" Aayirunnalum Mathyyyy.....!

Joe G. said...

Is there an English translation for the kalpana from HG and response from Dr. M. Kurien Thomas?

P said...

I agree with Joe G. it would be nice if the articles that are in Malayalam could be translated to English.

Thomas said...

"Jeevikalayi nadannappol- upadeshichittullavaram punya pithakkale prarthana kazhchakal okkeyilum orthavare pinthudarenam......."
The marthomites still chant this our old geetham at the end of the qurbana.They do not know what they sing because they preach against the same.They say something and do something.
2.The last bishop from the palakunnathu family actually wants to remember the punya pitha malpan achen who belongs to his family and wants to take credit and pride from his church members.But for this he should not have twisted the history hurting the orthodox members who are in wild majority in the neighbourhood of his churches.
3. The time he selected for this also seems to counter the orthodox church's plan to celebrate 1960th year of it's establishment by st.Thomas,in 2012 because he claim to be the 21st metropolitan counting from marthoma I.
4. But whenever there was a dispute as to who is the legitimate malankara metran the court had settled the dispute like the Royal court proclaimed the verdict in favour of pulikottil thirumeni against palakunnathu thirumeni.So palakunnathu mar Athanasios,Titus I,TitusII,Abraham,
Yuhanon,Alexander,Chrisostem,and now Joseph marthoma-s can not claim as the successors of the marthoma/malankara metrans.
5. when similar disputes arised at the time of Vattasseril thirumeni and Valiya bava thirumeni the court settled the same in their favour.And in 2002 after the parumala association under the supervision of Justice Malimat the supreme court of India declared Moran mar Mathews II as the malankara metropolitan which no one can question in any court.So it is clear that the present bava is the successor of the marthoma/malankara metran counting from marthoma I.Also read clause 3 of the 1934 constitution which the supreme court upheld and approved which says 'the ancient and real name of the malankara church is the malankara orthodox syrian church although it is wrongly called the jacobite church.
But we must forgive them as they are also the sons of St.Thomas considering st. Luke 19:9 which says"this day is salvation come to this house,for so much as he is also is son of Abraham".
Thomas Kuttikandathil.

vilsontp said...

Still Some Marhomites are visiting Manarcadu and Parumala.

Also some for Pathanamthitta Dist. vising the Kallada Church during the feast of Anthrayose Bava. (Incase if some one from some houses are not able to go , they send their offering through person who is going to Kallada Church on that Day.)

Till some years back many of then some rites as in Puthuppally Church (Kozhivettu) during the death anniversary of their departed Soul.
Still many housed are arranging special area prayer meeting on the particular anniversary at their homes, even though publicaly announce it even all attending are knows it.

Sam said...

The Edtiorial By H.G. Zacharia Mar Aprem is Well Done!!At Least Joseph Marthoma deserve this type Of Response for his forefathers Perpetual/Habitual lies about the St.Thomas church in Malankara!!
Sam.P.T

Reni said...

We should know the facts:

1. All the Churches that spit away from the original church founded in Malankara by ST THOMAS now want to regain the legacy. And St Thomas is central to this legacy of 2000 years.

2.These Churches split away basically because of interaction or association with FOREIGN Churches who never had any connection with ST Thomas Christians for about 1500 years.

3.The split away churches were encouraged by their foreign partners to ignore their traditions, most importantly that of St Thomas, the founder of the original Church. Even the term 'doubting Thomas' became popular among the Westerners. Indians mistook anything “FOREIGN” as something great. So lots of people left the original church to get a slice of this foreign dignity.


4.Now most of the foreign churches are passing through a state of decay and connection of these split away churches with their partner is on the vane. Those who still maintain connection are demanding more freedom and will successfully attain freedom as the foreign churches are now dependent on Indians.


5. Foreign supremacy or links are not respected now in India (a nation of 120 crore people), as it used to be in the past.

6. The strategy of the three groups under Rome (Latins, Syro Malabar and the Romo-Syrians otherwise known as Malankara Reeth), Marthoma Church who were linked to Canterbury and the Jacobites with their Arab connections are all the same. Capture the lost legacy by any means.

7. That explains the continued attack on the Orthodox Church which always stood for ST THOMAS through out the history of Malankara. The original church was sometimes under the control of the outsiders for sometime. But the real believers fought against all these foreigners. The war is still not over. Indian became free in 1947. But foreigners are still ruling the country through their Indian partners.

8 This subject has to be studied in detail and a book should be published on the sacrifices made by the fathers of the Malankara Church for the freedom of the apostolic throne of St Thomas. It should cover what were done by the foreigners to wipe out the name of St Thomas from Malankara and also the attempts made in the recent times for capturing or stealing the identity of the apostle St Thomas.

fr said...

Judgment Of The Royal Court Of Final Appeal 1889 And Marthoma Church

Thomas Mar Athanasius appealed to His Highness the Maha Rajah against the decree of the High Court on 1.3.1886. The Maha Rajah appointed a Royal Court (of Final Appeal) consisting of Cbief Justice K. Krishnaswamy Row, Justice A. Sita Rama lyer and Justice W.E.Ormsby to hear the Appeal Suit No:3 of 1061 (1886). On July 12,1889 (30 Mithunam 1064) the Court announced its judgment-a Majority Judgment by Chief Justice Rowand Justice lyer and a Minority Judgment by Justice Ormsby.


The Majority Judgment of Chief Justice K. Krishnaswamy Rowand Justice A.Sita Rama Iyer is quoted below:

“347(29 ) The conclusions we have arrived at on the whole

-that the Appellant (Mar Thomas Athanasius) had neither been properly consecrated nor accepted by the majority thereof and therefore, had no title to the Dignity and office of Metropolitan;

-that the Appellants’ possession of the properties of the Church and its appurtenances and the assumption of the office of the Metropolitan have been wrongful since the death of Mar Athanasius, the admitted last Metropolitan and Trustee;

-that the Appellant should, therefore, surrender the insignia and office of Metropolitan of the Malankara Syrian Jacobite Church and give up possession of all the properties and moneys appertaining thereto which he now holds to the Respondent (Mar Dionysius) who would assume and take possession of the properties etc to be administered with two other Trustees as required by the Endowment Deed;…… ”

In fact, the Royal Court judged that Pulikottil Joseph Mar Dionysius V was the dUly recognized Metropolitan of the Syrian Church with right of possession and power over church properties. The Judgment was followed by a series of suits regarding nearly every one of the individual churches in the possession of the Re- form Party. These suits also were mostly decided in favor of Mar Dionysius32.

Old Seminary Regained
Following the Royal Court Judgment, Mar Dionysius moved the civil authorities for handing over the possession of Old Seminary. Mar Dionysius regained the possession of Old Seminary from Thomas Mar Athanasius.

Formation of the Mar Thoma Syrian Church
The formation of the Mar Thoma Syrian Church in the last quarter of 19th Century was the culmination of the process of reformation within the Orthodox Church started by Abraham Malpan. The formation itself was hastened by the cumulative effect of the sweeping verdict of the Royal Court of Final Appeal of 1889 and the loss of property and individual churches. To quote The Most Rev. Dr. Juhanon Mar Thoma, Metropolitan of Mar Thoma Syrian Church, “At a period when the time and energy of the church were spent in defending themselves in the court, a band of twelve priests moved by a higher spiritual vision started the Association for Gospel preaching in the church and outside …. ”
“Now that the case was lost and their property taken away, it was necessary for this small group to think in terms of a separate church. They were called in contempt ‘the Reformers’ but they called themselves the Mar Thoma Syrian Church.”
Mean while, the reformers organized the Malabar Mar Thoma Syrian Christian Evangelistic Association with its Registered Office at Thiruvalla which was established on Wednesday, September 5, 1888 and the Mar Thoma Syrian Church formally came into being subsequently. Thomas Mar Athanasius (1868-1893) was the first bishop of the Mar Thoma Syrian Church. He was the son of Abraham Malpan and consecrated by Mathews Mar Athanasius in 1868.

Fr.Johnson Punchakonam

Vayaliparamban said...

Pothinodu vedam odiyittu entha karyam. Even Puthencruz will side with them. Mon chatthallum vedugilla, marumolde karachil kannannum athreyullu Thomaykkum kootterkkum.
Eenampichikku marapatti kootu.

xavier said...

I would like to clarify some of the beliefs of marthoma church,that was mis-interpreted in several posts.
1. We have all Noyambu except 8 noyambu. It is not mandatory to take noyambu. Normaly people took 25 noyambu & valiya noyambu. We have a book name 'Valiya noyambu namaskaram' U can hear the songs from this book on this link: http://www.esnips.com/web/Valiya-nombu-namaskaram
2. marthoma church is not aganist Mary or any saints. In our qurbana we are reading the 'Kanyaka mariyathinte pattu'( Elizabeth wishes to Mary).We are respecting mary and calling her as saint in our prayers)(Also marthoma church: St.Marys Marthoma church)
But we will not pray to her. We believe it was aganish bible teaching.that Jesus is the only mediater, not any third party.
As mentioned we are respecting all our Saints, forefathers who sacrificed for the church, We respect them & praying God to help us to follow the words of these leaders.( it is wriiten like this in qurbana kramam -Bhoomyil ulla sakala bagyathinu yogyatha ullavalum thamburane prasavichavalum aaya vishutha kanyakaariyatheyum,apposthalenmareyum, rakthasakshikaleyum,..sakala parishudha pithakan mareyum njangal orkunnu. Karthave evarude pinnaniyil nadapan njangale yogyatha ullavar akename.)
Yo can also see old song(
Jeevikalayi nadannappol upadeshichittullavaram punya pithakkale prarthana kazhchakal okkeyilum orthavare pinthudarenam)
3. So church is not aganist Saints.. So marthomites will not pray to any of the Saints they are praying directly to God.
4. Marthomites will not pray for dead ones. But we will remember them. We are arranging annual prayer meeting in our homes during the death anniversary. Our church is also conducting death anniversary meeting of our old thirumeni.. (yuhanon marthoma,alexander marthoma death anniversery meeting),In any of the meetings we will not pray for them, But we spoke about the contribution of these leaders to the church & society.
So try to understand the difference in beliefs.

Jeevan said...

@ Xavier


Nothing was mis-represented here.

1. “We have all the Noyambu, but it is not mandatory ”

For Orthodox Christians, all Lents are Mandatory, and we give importance to all. Every parish priest urges all his members to steadfastly hold the Lent. The call for compulsorily committing to lent is COMPULSARY in Orthodox Church. How many obey is a different question. So there is a difference between Orthodox and Marthoma. If your church says you have noyambu, and do not take it serious, then what is the use if having it. I have not heard any of my Marthoma friends uttering the word ‘Noyambu’ anytime. If lent is not given seriousness then it is better to tell we don’t have it.

2. “ We have a book called Veliya Noyambu Namskaram”

It is the book used by the Orthodox Church, and what you have is half of that book. (Cut shorted version).

3. “But we will not pray to her. We believe it was aganish bible teaching.that Jesus is the only mediater, not any third party.”

The word, ‘pray’ shows your ignorance. We don’t pray we intercede. I can’t explain you why, because, it wont sink in your head.

4. “Yo can also see old song(
Jeevikalayi nadannappol upadeshichittullavaram punya pithakkale prarthana kazhchakal okkeyilum orthavare pinthudarenam)”

This song is the diluted version of “Davivasuthanmar ayiduvan ayushkale….”


5. So try to understand the difference in beliefs.

We know the difference, what ever you have mentioned as your belief is EXACTLY same as the Anglicans. That’s why we call you a protestant church. You have lots of differences from Orthodoxy and high similarity with Anglican Protestants and even Pentecostals. So your place is amongst them.

xavier said...

@Jeevan
1. 'for orthdox church all lents are mandatory' what is the meaning of this statement? what is the use of lent if anybody has done due to compulsion of priest. We can't cheat God. God is not looking you are practising or not. He is looking to your mind.
Please understand the Jesus words to the Isralites who followed the Mosses law & 10 commands strictly.
(Luke 18: A certain ruler asked him,Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?
Jesus answered.You know the commandments:All these I have kept since I was a boy, he said.
When Jesus heard this, he said to him,You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me)
So there is no use in following some practises or rituals in church without truely believing in God.
2. I have one question regarding your mandatory practise in lent. If you are saying lent is mandatory, why your people not eating bread & drinking cup in all Qurbana.(1 Corinthians 11:23: For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes). From this bible word it is clear that you have to eat bread & drink cup in Qurbana. (not seeing Qurbana). I know many of orthdox believers taking Qurbana only in moundy thursday. Is the qurbana is a show to watch . I dont understand the meaning(qurbana kaanuka).
3. You are saying that all the marthoma church hymns are taken from orthdox church book. Then how it become anglican church. That itself showing We are not following anglican holy communian services
I like to conclude diiferent churches has cetain changes in thier believes. But any of the church in this world can't guarantee our eternal life. So live in Jesus words, not in any church words.

Jeevan said...

“what is the use of lent if anybody has done due to compulsion of priest.”

Priest’s urges people of these groups, Forgotten/not interested/doesn’t know etc. The priest’s job is to spiritually guide his flocks. The Marthoma church which says we have all these and doesn’t know how to feed her flocks is a devil infected church. The non importance given to Lent in Marthoma church, is because they don’t know the importance of Lent. Just to satisfy some people, they come up with silly statements, like we have all the ‘noyambu’ but it is not mandatory. Then why on earth you say you have something.

“So there is no use in following some practises or rituals in church without truely believing in God.”

Another ignorant statement. Lent is not all about quitting some particular food. It is about praying several times, reading the ‘Lenten Service Book’ and prostrating 40 times a day. These are activities which bring people closer to God. A person committed to lent, should avoid his passions, feed the poor and hungry, and isolate him selves from all worldly pleasures. Have you ever tried it at least once?

“why your people not eating bread & drinking cup in all Qurbana”

I don’t even understand what you are trying to say?

If your question is why Orthodox Christians do not partake in Holy Qurbana, let me ask you, do all marthomites partake everyday???

For us, it is compulsory to be spiritually pure before partaking the Holy Qurbana. At least 8 Hours fast is compulsory. Hoosoyo or confession is compulsory. For you marthomites, Qurbana is just a commemorative service, that’s why, you people jump and go without having spiritual or physical purity.

“You are saying that all the marthoma church hymns are taken from orthdox church book. Then how it become anglican church”

You took what you want, and omitted what you don’t want

“But any of the church in this world can't guarantee our eternal life. So live in Jesus words, not in any church words. But any of the church in this world can't guarantee our eternal life. So live in Jesus words, not in any church words.”

Another blunder. God established a church here on earth. He gave us only one truth. Idiotic men twisted it and made several truths. Your statement that no church can guarantee eternal life shows how ignorant you are. Then what about the church which Jesus established here??

xavier said...

@ Jeevan
1. 'Devil infected church' this itself shows your narrow mind & self praising your church. I think this was you gained from lent practice.(Mathew 20:28: whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave:or whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted). From your word I understood how much you are following above words. When you insult our church glory of our church is increasing. What the Bible said ie important than any lent. lent is not any Jesus command.
2. Lent is about praying several times, reading the ‘Lenten Service Book’ and prostrating 40 times a day. From your statement I understood that you dont know the law.(Read Leviticus)It is book about how to live & worship in God. They have to pray more than 40 times than Lent service. Please understand Jesus is questing all these worship practices.
3."A person committed to lent, should avoid his passions, feed the poor and hungry, and isolate him selves from all worldly pleasures. Have you ever tried it at least once? Please ask any other religious people about this answer. Many of them know only cases, police, all these words about ur church)
Read Bible: Mathew18:35:(So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses)Are ur church or u following this words. Ready to withdraw cases against ur brothers(jacobites), ready to respect other syrian churches. resolve dispute between bishops( kalpana abt ordaination of preists by other bishop without the knowlede of Catholica) So try to become spiritual curch. Dont think that ur church is perfect in all ways.
4. At least 8 Hours fast is compulsory. Hoosoyo or confession is compulsory. whats the problem in that? we also fast until Qurbana(not taking food after 10pm, day before Qurbana)
For you marthomites, Qurbana is just a commemorative service, that’s why, you people jump and go without having spiritual or physical purity. ie ur escaping from the bible word (1 Corinthians 11:23: For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes)? even catholic ates are following this word. (Read 1 corinthians 11 here paul asked to believers that u must ate from home before coming to Qurbana).
5.You took what you want, and omitted what you don’t want- ie is true we omitted whatever not written in Bible.
6.'God established a church here on earth'- I am not talking about Christ church. abt man made churches as we have seen in our society.

xavier said...

1. 'Devil infected church' this itself shows your narrow mind & self praising your church. I think this was you gained from lent practice.(Mathew 20:28: whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave:or whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted). From your word I understood how much you are following above words. When you insult our church glory of our church is increasing. What the Bible said ie important than any lent. lent is not any Jesus command.
2. Lent is about praying several times, reading the ‘Lenten Service Book’ and prostrating 40 times a day'. From your statement I understood that you dont know the law.(Read Leviticus)It is book about how to live & worship in God. They have to pray more than 40 times than Lent service. Please understand Jesus is questing all these worship practices.

xavier said...

@ Jeevan
3."A person committed to lent, should avoid his passions, feed the poor and hungry, and isolate him selves from all worldly pleasures. Have you ever tried it at least once? Please ask any other religious people about this answer. Many of them know only cases, police, all these words about ur church)
Read Bible: Mathew18:35:(So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses)Are ur church or u following this words. Ready to withdraw cases against ur brothers(jacobites), ready to respect other syrian churches. resolve dispute between bishops( kalpana abt ordaination of preists by other bishop without the knowlede of Catholica) So try to become spiritual curch. Dont think that ur church is perfect in all ways.
4. At least 8 Hours fast is compulsory. Hoosoyo or confession is compulsory. whats the problem in that? we also fast until Qurbana(not taking food after 10pm, day before Qurbana)
'For you marthomites, Qurbana is just a commemorative service, that’s why, you people jump and go without having spiritual or physical purity'. ie ur escaping from the bible word (1 Corinthians 11:23: For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes)? even catholic ates are following this word. (Read 1 corinthians 11 here paul asked to believers that u must ate from home before coming to Qurbana).
5.'You took what you want, and omitted what you don’t want'- ie is true we omitted whatever not written in Bible.
6.'God established a church here on earth'- I am not talking about Christ church. abt man made churches as we have seen in our society.