Tuesday, August 17, 2010

HH The Catholicos Didymus I's Kalpana about Convention and Gospel Team.

 The Catholicos Didymus I's Kalpana about Convention and Gospel  Team.


Chandichayan, Puthuppally said...

Nammude Thumpamannile Gospel Team karkkittu Methrachan Chaitha Kroorathayano Ithu?

Vayaliparamban said...

Apt for the occasion. These teams lack Orthodoxy and propagate protestant style of worship.
Hope these Achens give heed to it

Bobby said...

Right decision. we have our own way of workship which is very rich and right and anything else is just pedestrian. Let us practice and propogatae true Orthodoxy.

Abraham said...

I think the clause banning programmes outside the diocese should be reviewed. Most of such teams are invited to parishes outside kerala and do programes decently and appreciably.

fr said...

Recently some of our groups are following protestant style of worship. The Orthodox Church traditionally does not use any instruments in the liturgy, instead relying entirely on choral music and chanting. Essentially all the words of Orthodox services, except sermons and such, are either chanted or sung by readers and choirs and when possible the congregations. The Church as a body offering up prayers to God while 'prayer' refers to the individual devotional traditions of the Orthodox.
Protestant worship is cantered around one person talking, or modelled after secular entertainment. In Charismatic worship, the 'move of the Spirit' can depend greatly on how secure the music minister is in his job.
Fr.Johnson Punchakonam

george said...

Bava has taked many good decisions even though he is physically weak due to old age . This decision is one among them
I may point out few more things where attention should be paid
Bishops, Priests , managiing committee members, Sabha office bearer laymen working as agents of vested interests or spies of political parties or those who had connection with sectarians ,Mafias goondas should be checked
This is more dangerous than ” C G or P C society “
Also who work with unlawful money like real estate business commission agents and other new commercial marketing techniques
Travel agents especially holy land pilgrimage, agents of visa agents , metlife , unit trust bajaj Alliance and other commercial , financial enterprises Priests and their patners working as binami L I C agents , and so on .... Making Unlawful money through back doors should be curtailed . Think why the priests are after money ?
why don't we allow priests to work as teachers in schools or colleges and other educational institutions ?? the salary given to the priests is very low when compared to the state salary
I came to know that the earlier commitee on salary revision had sujjested to give a basic pay equivalent to the highschool teachers.whats is the salary of a highschool teacher ?
At present we are giving six to seven thousand per month to our Very Rev. Priests . This should be raised to Rs15000 or above in kerala dioceses.We have to care the Poor priests and their family too on the otherside.

shibin joy said...

nalla therumanamam nammude gospel teams oru karismatic stylil pokunnatannthu steram kazchaaayirunnu. thank to catholicossssssssssssssss.
shibin kannanakuzhy

George said...

The Kalpana is good in as much as that there can be some check on the feeling that anybody having a mike can utter whatever possible in the name of gospel work. But, will this Kalpana be implemented in letter and spirit? I have doubts because the wordings provide loopholes.Usages like "atleast" can always be intrepreted differently for different persons. In this background, I would suggest that the Church should seriously think of introducing a plan to teach Bible to our young generation. Present sunday school syllabaus is not taking care of this to the extend required. Once we teach Bible properly, "others" will not mislead our children with wrong intrepretations of Bible.
### George Joseph###

Geophy said...

Beloved H.H Catholicos of East,
Thanks for your brave decision on unauthorised conventions & gospal teams. As we have a good higharchy to manage our church, all who under this will have to obey the Kalpana by the catholicos. Secondly, I request to beloved to give Kalpana to the reputed liturgical music school (Sruthi) students to perform the chior in all churches and in permitted conventions in Malankara Orthodox Church. Priests who learned music and sings as per the rules of our church styles (Nirangal) properly can join with the permission of His Holiness or appoint Director of Sruthi to confirm the ability and certify the permission for that.

Vayaliparamban said...

Remuneration to a Priest is always found to be an issue. The fact of the matter is majority of them are never happy with what they get. They try all means to make something extra and as a result the dignity of this job is lost. Today for an average doopum veppu cost Rs.250-Rs.500. A marriage Rs.1000/-, A funeral Rs.500/-. Then comes baptism, orma kurbana, house blessing and so on.
In an average church an Achen gets roughly Rs.500 to Rs.1000 a week in addition to the salary. In our state there are people who manage their families with two kids, a monthly salary of Rs.3000 decently without any additional income. They don’t have a TV or a car or a bike. They don’t spend their time going for movies. Take an account of the luxury we spent every month. Then we can always say Achen is also humans as if we don’t know that.
Now coming back to the question of these charismatic group. they are copy cats from Pentecostal missions.

We had a Celibate Achen in MGOCSM, who was given charge for organizing a similar gospel team wing for MGOCSM about 5-10 years back. He put in lot of efforts for the team and when complaints came, he was asked to wind up. Let me cut short. Today this achen is no more with us and married to a non-christian lady and is having a kid in her.
His contemporaries says this Achens team was much better comprising of MGOCSM students rather than like todays quotation gang like Gospel teams.

Is this our faith? What is the Divyabodhanam course doing? Hope we have got a Bishop who is in charge of that. May be is busy with his pet projects? Have they set up any targets or action plan to teach our people the faith of our church?

Is any of our Achens not capable of running a unit of Divyabodanam at their church? If not why do they spend 4 to 5 years at the Seminary. To learn how to make money?
Today you look at a church. For the amount of time a priest spends at the church is too short for the amount of what he gets. Today even on a Sunday most of the Achens are busy with outside church work. After the service they will have that or this in a nearby church or they will find time to conduct convention or that sort outside their church to get what? Obviously money. The canons of the church says the service (sacraments for a normal person) conducted by any priest be it a normal priest or high priest the result is the same.
First of all we should find dedicated candidates for this position. Now the question comes who will select them. 99 percent of jonies who join the seminary is taking it as a vocation. Unfortunately they never know the stories of dedicated Achens like Late Alexander Achen who was the principal of OTS, Kottayam. There are many in that list.
If an Achen spends time atleast on Saturdays and Sundays full time at his allocated church with his faithful teaching them from Divyabodanam and listening to their issues and advising them, there is no need for any special gospel work in that church. The heavenly father will open up his resources to reward these Achens. But unfortunately the Achens want these resources from people who don’t give them willingly. This is the issue we have and the Achens find different ways to make money and this is one they feel people will appreciate!

My advise is ask every Achen to start a unit of Divyabodanam and make it compulsory for the faithful to attend it. As long as the faithful doesn’t know his faith he will dance to the music of the Gospel teams.

You can literally make church going a paradise like atmosphere if you have dedicated priests without ego and prejudice.

george said...

Remuneration to a Priest is always found to be an issue. The fact of the matter is majority of them are never happy with what they get. They try all means to make something extra Today for an average doopam vepu cost Rs.250-Rs.500. A marriage Rs.1000/-, A funeral Rs.500/-. Then comes baptism, orma kurbana, house blessing and so on.
In an average church an Achen gets roughly Rs.500 to Rs.1000 a week in addition to the salary. In our state there are people who manage their families with two kids, a monthly salary of Rs.3000 decently
chettai ee list evidunna?? Ithu nattinpuratho ? nakarathilo? vadakko ? thekko ?? enthayalum chettayi kku achanmarkku kittunne nalla parichayam undennu thonnunnu
ente naatile achanmar valare manyan mar annu avar funeral nu panam vangarilla janam kodukkarumilla, Ellayidathum maha idavakayum cathedralum illa chettai……
10, 25, 30 , 50 , veetham veedulla dharalam pallikalundu !! athaazha pattinikkarum !!!
bavayude eeyide purathirakkiya list onnu nokku
ayyo chetta eppo achan mar kalyanam mamodeessa ormakurbana onnum nadathunilla….
athinalle 33 bishops sabhayil …………. rate ithilum kooduthalanu Palarum eppol thozhil rahithar annu.. young blood vannappol………..
Bishops inte rate koode onnu parayumo vayalil chettai…….
pavam Achanmar
Mamodeeessa ellam paru mala annu nadakkunne
oru Late lamented maha purohithante personal balance Rs 25000000 . athinu kadi pidi
Just enquire at pathanamthitta . bishop chodichittu secretary panam kodukkunilla
Bhadrasana pothuyogathil pidivaly mike nu
Pavam gospel team ancharu kasundakkunnatho paapam ??? avide team moonno , nalo oo ?
Sabhayil kashtappedunna dharalam vaideekarundu avare adachakhepikkalle ?
Ente palliyil 35 houses annu . 4 Sundays thavana undu avide chettan paranjapole alla karyangal…..
Pavam achan mar.. kilappan vakayilla …… irappan nanikkunnu…..
Ithu gramathile sthithi chettai…….
They may work for L I C , metlife, bajaj alliance or do real estate business to survive ??

chippy said...

good decision.actually our gospel teams are not doing a good job.most cases they are perfoming like "idea star singer singers".they will be happy if somebody tell'"you have a good voice or speaking ability".these are not only in conventional grounds.some of the priests are practicing this style in friday retreat also.I DIDN'T HEARD this kalpana in our church.someone is hiding.i am a divyabhodhanan student.but my parish didn't have a unit .so i am forced to join in other unit.it is some what difficlt.our parish have sundayschool teachers not even passed in 10th sundayschool.i am only 21 years old. from my experience i am telling one thing most of our organisations are JUST SHOWS.ENSURE THAT THESE ORDERS ARE STRICTLY ENFORCED.

george said...

I am going to support priests since I know many good priests in our church
1- The money that a priest get from a small parish in a village is too low
2- They have to please the bishops or secretary to get a good parish
3- Our system is so corrupt , which encourage “mani adikkar” but this is for their survival we can t blame them
4- Just read the book of “Oretha “ of moses tithe is for the priests not to the church
5- What was the situation 50 yrs back priests get their share from churches
6- Idavakappattakkar was stronger so the bishops plotted against them and made them koolies
7- Diocese had no control over the money. Priests , Vicars had a position in society at that time don’t ignore this fact
8- Only ” high cast” or affluent people are chosen for priesthood in olden days.. the case is different now
9- Now it become a profession
10- Every profession has a rank in the society
11- What’s the rank of a priest or a vicar in the society
12- What should the qualification of the priest? Majority of our church is not willing to send to their child for this profession? Are you willing to send your child for this? And it’s difficult for a deacon or priest to get a good spouse now a days
13- If we want to get better quality we have to pay for it . if you want lame deaf and of low quality…… then it’s okay 3000bugs will do for that
14- Priests have a family they spent money for the family what about bishops ?where the money goes Is there any rule for private property or money accumulated by the bishops ?I am not going to cite example because it’s so common and public “ARAMANA RAHASYANGAL”
15- Are you aware of the royalty that piled up of a Late theologian bishop
16- Service rules of clergy must be introduced “clergy including Bishops” they are included in the clergy , the rule is for them too.
17- There was one bishop for malankara who got all reverence and Pomp all our bishop enjoy all these today. They live in luxury. They know only big shots…
18- Priests are in between bishops and lay men suffering all the spanking form both sides
So many of our clergy are suffering you give a pension 1000 rs after 65 a priest after a service of 40 years getting 1000 bugs . Priesthood is not a profession………laws , Oaths, Canons, restrictions, traditions , dress codes , religious codes of the church as well as society that imbibed on a priest. They have to keep it….24 hrs duty lifelong service please don’t underestimate our priests and priesthood.. I have seen poor priests.. who were not affluent at home or sick who will take care of them ?? do we have a centre to take care of our old priests ? Do you know about the last years of late bishop youhanon mar severios of kochi
Then what about poor priests ???????? gospel teams are working for their survival too Sneha sandesham of mission board headed by mar Osthathis was the pioneer of gospel team s . Did it stop working ?

James said...


SMIOSC Well Wishers said...

Our some priests are the curse of Our Sabha. Why they greedy that much? What is their view of priesthood? This is a serious decease in our Sabha. Prevent and treat properly.

SMIOSC Well Wishers said...

Dear George,

It is necessary that priests to get good salary and an above average life style. But they won't forget their mission. Now a days, priest are very greedy. Even the coole will serve sabha and do charity. They are not giving these from their surplus. But some priests are taking money from them. That style is not good. They are the Fathers of poor people too. If he has a poor son, it is the responsibility of priest to take care that son. I never heard a man became poor after he received priesthood. Thing is the field is very good for making money. So they utilizing the time. That makes them greedy. That greedy make them violate sabha rules regulations and not listen the directions of Sabha. For thriving people and attracting people , they change the orthodox prayer style and introducing protestant style. It will shake the base stone of Church. So these styles has to get an end.

sampariyarathu said...

The Main Issue here is Whether 8th Day Lent feast Cononical?if not why make so much noise about gospel teams who was participating in 8thday lent feast!Sometimesback Bava and synod also revoked the former 10Day lent/upavasa prarthana prior to feast of Pentacost!Jesus Christ told that" how more heavenly father give the Holy Spirit to those ask him"(luke11:13)! Now a days feast of pentacost is merely a ritual service in MOSC! Those who are not blemish throw the stone first!

Ronnie Daniel said...

Here is the problem when we approach any likewise issue. Instead of addressing an issue which is for or against "Orthodoxy", we address the issue to score points and take revenge on some one or something.

When M P George Achen started the " Shruthi Music School " with the whole blessings from the Church hierarchy, the verse quoted from the Bible was from Psalms 150 : " 3 Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet, praise him with the harp and lyre, 4 praise him with tambourine and dancing, praise him with the strings and flute, 5 praise him with the clash of cymbals, praise him with resounding cymbals."

This was the explanation given for bringing the instruments in to the Church with the blessings of the Hierarchy.
And M P George Achens teams with a group a elites from Kottayam travelled around the world to exhibit their performance and we won some top awards too.
There is nothing wrong with it and I fully support it.

But, what I don't support is when some other priests do it in a small way in some Diocese why we are against it ???

If the Church want to stop it, it must be stopped for everyone.
It is not right if some one with the blessings of some powerful Bishops can do it and others can't.

George said...

This may turn out to be a very tricky issue. Basically, our Holy Synod should stand as one unit and ensure that the KALPANA is followed in letter and spirit. This is not the time to ponder over or debate over the merits or demerits of the KALPANA. We have to show our strength here. Here, one more thing has to be considered. When a gospel team is arranged to lead a convention, should they take the Bhadrasana Metropolitan's concurrence? If yes, the Metropolitan should have interfered. In my comment on this issue dated August 18, I had expressed a fear that it may be difficult to implement the subject KALPANA. But once it is issued, it has to be followed. The Holy Synod should pull up the laity and clergy involved in this and ensure that this is not repeated. The action should not be leading them to leave the CHURCH and embrace other fellowships, but should make them realose their error. Steps should be taken to use their spiritual talents for our collective benefit.

Ebenezar said...

Dear George Joseph
During the Past/in MOSC history, So many Kalpanas were ignored!who were resposible fore that!The issue of Gospel Teams should be dicussed in Holy Synod and their activities are to be closely watched/observed carefully!In The Past there were three things in MoSC as many people Critisized us this way:-
1.Vannonam(Come on)
3.Kondonnan(receive H.Qurbana)

after three onams there are no activities!Even Partaking H.Qurbana is merely a ceremoney in Many MOSC churches!Many people come during end of qurbana/ busmelko time and receive Holy Qurbana!there are no order /disciplene that are followed in many churches! Awake MOSC!