Monday, August 16, 2010

പരിശുദ്ധ പരുമല തിരുമേനിയെ ചാത്തുരുത്തി തിരുമേനി എന്ന് വിളിക്കുന്നവര്‍ പരുമലയില്‍ എന്തിനു പള്ളി വയ്ക്കുന്നു. മുലംതുരുത്തിയിലെ (Mulamthuruthy) കാശ് വാരാനുള്ള ശ്രമം പരാജയപ്പെട്ടത് കൊണ്ട് പരുമലയില്‍ ഒരു കൈ നോക്കമെന്നോ?


പരിശുദ്ധ പരുമല തിരുമേനിയെ ചാത്തുരുത്തി തിരുമേനി എന്ന് വിളിക്കുന്നവര്‍ പരുമലയില്‍ എന്തിനു പള്ളി വയ്ക്കുന്നു.  മുലംതുരുത്തിയിലെ (Mulamthuruthy) കാശ് വാരാനുള്ള  ശ്രമം പരാജയപ്പെട്ടത് കൊണ്ട് പരുമലയില്‍ ഒരു കൈ നോക്കമെന്നോ?
Parumala and Puthenkurisu Society by Rinu വെട്ടിയാര്‍ 




254 comments:

1 – 200 of 254   Newer›   Newest»
Chandichayan, Puthuppally said...

Mulamthuruthy yil Bhoomikkadiyil Dyana Nilayam Okke undakky Parumala Thirumeniyude Peru Matty "Chathuruthy Bava" Ennokke aakkiyittum yakobayakkar Omalloor Poyittu Parumala Chennu Nercha Ittittu Pokunnathu Nirthanano Puthiya Tharikida?

Ravi George said...

Those who want tro divide the Church haev already reserved a plotin the HELL!

Ravi George said...

Sathyam velivaakumbol ella adavum poliyunnathu HB Thoms bava kanendi varum.

Orhtodox Sabah sathyatthinnum neethikum samadhanatthinu nirakkathathu onnum cheyyaruthu. Jacobite campil ulla ellavreyum snehicchu avarkkuverndi prarddhikkuka.

Ennal avarude dushta adavukal samadhaanaparamayi thurannu kattuakayum venam

Ravi George said...

Now a days jacobite Church i sencouraging all types of false beliefs which are unknown in ORTHODOXY. Seesm they will beat the Catholics in this business. I request the Orthodox Church leaders keep the Orthodox belief in it purest form. Please do not run after money. It will eventualy turn BITTER.

Ravi George said...

This move wil only attract more peolplein the Jacobit camp to the real Kabr of the Saint. But let me warn the leaders of the Malankara Church against doing anything for getting more money. If any beiliever wants ot put money, it is up to him. Church should never seek money fro blessings. Those who seek wil be destroyed by it!

Ravi George said...

Jacobite Rebel vibhagatthil 12 per karkkirunnu meen peidikkukayaanu. Avarkku kuracchu perkku paniyaakatte ennu karuthiyaanu. Ini kure per vaizhikkan kaathu kidakkunu. Ella Thomas Prdhaman Thirumeni thherumaanikkum. HE IS THE ASSOCIATION and HIGH PRIEST

Sam said...

Dear All
The Jacobites has already warned their people not to go Parumala church and make any offerings there! they already said the offerings in Parumala are being used by MOSC for filing cases against them! No wonder why they are owning plot in Parumala! They can make another Parumala there to confuse faithfuls!

Reni said...

Is ther a fear that they would steal Parumala Thirumeni's holy relics? I'm sure all the people who visit Jacobite parumala Church would come to the tomb of Parumala Thirumeni and pray. We do not seek money. Jacobite are now mastering the art of money making business through miracles and wonders. You can expect more to follow. I have heard that about 12 of their bishops are sitting idle. let them have some business. They have invsted so much money to becoem a bishop.

But I think this Church won't atract many visitors as they expect.

Biut we should keep our Parumala centre a beautiful place of prayer, not a money making centre.

Who will listen to Thomas Bava now? Not even his followers. Look at the way his meeting failed in Alwaye. What a tragedy for him. Oadikkathe Oadippokum, ennu kettittille. The biggest gathering has not even got 2500 people.

Regarding the architecture, Jacobites have got almost the same style everywhere. If they don't have a congregation there, it is not going to take off in a big way. Just they have a church in Parumala doesn't mean anything. If it grows it is good for Parumal Thirumeni's tomb.

Like Pakistan trying to destablise India, Jacobites are trying all sorts to harm Orthodox chruch. But they will know soon.

MalankaraSyriacOrthodox said...

MOSC (Catholicose faction) does not have majority in many of the old churches in Angamaly, Kochi and Kandana diocese. In all those places, the MOSC has established Catholicate Centers. Why can't this be seen in the same light ? The JSOC (Patriarch faction) does not control Parumala Church. It is impossible for Geevarghese Mar Koorilose, the JSOC Bishop of Niranam to go and celebrate Holy Qurbana at Parumala. So if the Niranam Diocese of the JSOC wants to build a church using their own funds in a piece of land, what is wrong with that ?

Nits said...

It just shows how the factional fued in malankara has risen above faith...jacobites are even taking parumala thirumenis name for money....

Shaino Jacob said...

Valayam illathey chadan padicha ningalkku venamenkil enthum kanikkamallo. Enthey Orthodox viswasikal manjanikkaryilo athupolulla ningaludey aasthanangalilo oru sthalam vangi pallivakkuvan agrahikkunnilla. Avar valayathiloodi mathramay chadan padichittullu.Ningalkkoru pradhinidyavum illatha parumal, Niranam areayil vannu palli paniyan nanamilley.Swayabudhi udikkan vendy prardhikkunnu.

JOLLYMON PARUMALA

Thomas said...

If Orthodox church build churches near Mnarcadu and manjanikkara churhes will there be any effect?
All Jacobites are not so fools to put there money in some building errected by the society somewhere in parumala.They know that the nercha panam is to be put only at the Kabarinkal.
Thomas Kuttikandathil.

Shaino Jacob said...

Puthenkurisu society Aarabhichirikkunnu ennu parayunna Parumala Project Theerchayayum Valiya thettuthanney. Parumala thirumeniay bhagikkan shramikkunnathinu thulyamaya pravarthi aanu cheyunnathu. Enthayalum Thirumeniyudey Kabaridam Polichukondu povan saadhikkillallo. Puthenkurishil orikkal oru sidhan Parumala Thirumeni Kabaril ninnum irangi ivide vannu vasikkunnu ennu paranju nadannittu valiya prayojanam undayilla. Pinneyano ee parishramam. Parumala Desham ithiney swagatham cheyum ennu vicharikkanda. Parumala yiley Akraisthavar ithiney ulkollilla. Pinneyaano bhaktha janangal.
POSTED BY SHAINO JACOB AT 6:25 PM
LABELS: KASHTAM THANNEY.

George said...

I simply do not understand why we are giving too much importance to their constructing a church at Parumala. Don't they have the right? They are doing it with their money.Let them do it. We can decide individually whether to go there or not. They have a new church close to our Puthuppaly church. Till this moment, nothing wrong has happened to our Puthuppally church. All said and done, we must appreciate the design of the church they are planning at Parumala. It looks like a church. But our Parumala church.........
### George Joseph###

Ravi George said...

You can build any number of Churches, even in Parumala.

I JUST HAVE ONLY ONE REQUEST TO THE REBEL SOCIETY LEADERS

But please do not bring Gundas and murderers to hide there in your Prumal Church. Gundas will sty only with liquor and women. Parumala Thirumeni has got a good name. People will think that they stayed in the Parumala Thirumeni's kabr..

Ravi George said...

This move of jacobite is not for peace. They are greedy people who always want to fight. They have already spoiled peace in the Northern areas. Now they want to target South districts.

This is mainly becasue Thomas bava has consecrated many bishops without any regard for quality. They are seeking new methods of survival.

They will do all evil things and spread rumors about Thirummeni's kabr.

They think that they can do anything and go scot free.

Vayaliparamban said...

This is another fund raising event for Pradhaman. Last year Zakka came and Pradhaman & Co, made some money. This is just for his running cost expenses. The currency came from Dubai is draining out.
I thought their young metran of Niranam had a bit of common sense amongst that lot. Kannu chennal Kannin kootthail allathey entha!

Ravi George said...

What happened to HB Tomas's Dubai source?

Mathew said...

Njangade cash upayogichu, njanagal vangicha sthalathu, njangalu, njangalkkuvendi palli vekkunnu....Athilu metran kakshikaaru ithramaathram njelipiri kollunathu manasilaayilla....Parumalayile nerchapettiyille varumaanam kuranjupokum ennaanno bhayam ? ividuthe comments okke kandittu.. moneymaking ..ennoru aashayamannallo niranju nilkunnathu !!!!! Daivam sense nalkatte ennu praarthikkunnu !!

Shaino Jacob said...

Money Mathukutty Njangalkku bhayam illa. ippol panam mohichalley oru viswasipolum illatha Parumalayil vannupalli vkkan pokunnathu. Ithu samadhanathinano atho vadakken bhadrasanangalilay poley ivideyum valla Malankara Varughese neyum kandu pidichu kollanano.Thomas Bavantey poothi manasil vachekkan para money.

Oommen said...

This message is for Ravi George from a member of the so called 'devalokam soceity'. Ravi, There is no medicine for jeleousy and baldness.Devalokam Soceity have to find another source for money to conduct cases against they Jacobites.Anyways , You should thank us rather than crying liek a baby and going to court , For jacobite churches as in Kothamangalam , We are spending our hard earned money to purchase a piece of land . and build a unique monument in Parumala befitting our love and affection To the Bava , because we are THE TRUE INHERITORS of the FAITH and LEGACY Of Parumala Bava . who told you that there is nobody in Parumala from the Jacobite side ? ... Who say's that the Parumala Region is owned by The Devalokam?.WE EVEN HAVE A DEACON THERE WHO IS WELL INVOLVED IN THE NEW PROJECT! .Secondly , I had seen lamenting messages saying that our Bishops are sitting idle and going fishing.Please see www.syriacvoice.com to have a first hand knowledge of how many churches and congregation which we are starting . YES OUR BISHOPS ARE FISHERS OF MEN ! (NOT FISHERS OF shyunyamaya mlechatha,vishudhasthalathu ........kadapadu to Indian Orthodox Herald on the election of previous Orthodox Bishops. DONT DIG A GRAVE FOR YOURSELF OR ... vadikoduthu adivangikaruthu ..... JOYCE CHANDICHAYAN , JOYCE AVARACHAYAN, JOYCE VALIYAPARAMBAN should beware .
Ps.Also when you elect Bishops , Dont Elect pazhutha Candidates.
ELECT BISHOPS LIKE THE JACOBITES!
Regards :]

Abraham said...

I don't know why our people are upset on this. Situation in Manarcad or puthupally are different. Even though there is no patriarch faction in and around parumala, all of them are firm believers of the intercession of thirumeni and wish to visit that place. Due to our unfortunate factional fights, they cannot make their clergy make Holy sacraments in Parumala chruch (but their bishops will have no problem to enter the khabar. I have seen Mor thomas osthathios visiting parumala). So they bought a land nearby the church. What's wrong in that?

It need to be appreciated that they are building a church according to our old traditional style. Now also almost all the old churches are preserved in patriarch faction whereas in orthodox side they are destroyed. Parumalayile "Hall-palli" vachathinte pinnilullavar kandu padikkatte.

Thampy said...

Coorilose Enna Chuvappu Kuppaya Dhaary, Thomachanteyum, Thomachante Pingaamy Ennariyappedunna, Kunushtu ButhyKaranum,KaaluVaariyumaya Kochiyude Kochu Methrachanteyum Aasirvadathodukoody Parumalayil Sthalam Vanghikkukayo, Aramana Paniyukayo Enthenkilum Cheyyatte. Athinu Orthodox Karkku Entha Chetham. Venamenkil Malankarayude Mahaparisuthante Enthenkilum Thiruseshippu,(Avarude Kaiyil Undennu AvakasaPedamallo) Central, State Ministers,Rashteeyakkar, ItharaNethaakkanmar, Soyam AvarothithaCatholica,Ippozhathe, Vivaadha Aalmeeya Adhiyashan Thudanghiyavarudeyokke Saannidhiyathil Sthaapichu Ennum Varam. Athinum Namukku Enthaa? Parisuthante Kabaridam Ippol UllidathuNinnum PolichuKondu Pokaan Saadhikkillalloooo....Parisutha ParumalaThiruMeny Onneyullu Ennum,Adhehathinte Kabaridam, Athum Onnu Maathrame Ullu Ennum,Lokam Muzhuvanum, Akkraisthavar Ulppadeyulla Aabalavrutham Jenanghalkkum Arivulla MahaValiya Charithravum Aanu.Jeevikkunna Parisuthanum, Jeevippikkunna DaivamThampuranum Ithellam Kandu Chirikkunna Vivaram Paavam Thomachaneyum Anuyayikaleyum ParanjuManassilaakkikkaan.....Aarenkilum Undaayirunnenkilllll....?

eldo said...

ethu ethu sabha.jacobite orthodox orhodox church owned a plot in parumala says syric voice.thomas pradhamantea sabha yaco upaya suriyani christaniy sabha ennallea.eppo kottayam1 puthencruz 2,goorgan3 ethu nalamathea ano.atho than nilkkunna sabha ethennu ariyanjittano.ariyavunnavar onnu vivarikkamo?

Mathew said...

Shaino shlomo..... Parumalayil yakobayakkarundo ennu avide chennanweshichu nokkiyal ariyam....ee comments kalilokke niranju nilkuna oraashayamund .. " parumalayile nercha pannnam ", " money making " .. enokke.. thangalude sahodarangal thanne ezhuthiyatha.... athukondu chodichu poyathaannu saare..

Shlomo shaino!!

Ravi George said...

Dear Ommen

Thanks for calling us ‘so called Devalokam Society’ We are ‘so called society’ whereas you are ‘true society’. Your so called ‘2002 Bharanaghatana’ is actually registered according to the Society Act. Hence the reason for your TRUE SOCIETY. Study the clauses properly.

Then you should take a look at your Masters’ Bharanaghatana. i.e. Your Antiochian Masters’. You are all members there, but without vote. Your only job is give them ‘nott’ so that they can have ‘putt’. The people there, ARABS, your masters, have blessed you with non-franchise membership. But they don’t want your people to become a Patriarch though you are in majority! It is reserved for an ARAB. Such kind of slavery doesn’t exist anywhere in any church. Let alone Church,not even in any country.

To know more about your ANTIOCH, read a highly reputed magazine known all over the world as NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC MAGAZINE. It published a Cover story (June 2009) on ARAB CHRISTIANS, your masters.

Native Christians today are disappearing from the land where their faith was born.
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/06/arab-christians/belt-text
You mention about the Jacobite Church at Kothamangalam made me remember about a recent Kerala High Court ruling that the execution petition of the Orthodox Church is maintainable there. KAANAN POKUNNA POORAM PARANJU ARIYIKKANO?

Your Bishops are true ‘fishers of men’. That was proved in ALWAYE On 8th August. ‘Valiya koodivarvinte vaartha’ The Hindu 9th August report cheythu. To know more read the related posts in this site. I have added much detail there.

YES, we have elections to become a Bishop. It is a bit difficult to get in there. Sorry,even our head of the Church cannot help. So the easy way is to go to HB THOMAS Bava and get a ‘selection’…Chumma angu selection kittilla…“georgekutty venam,” “kaiyil ondo, pettiyumayittu vaa” Pinne ondakkamallo” . Athalle Ippozhattheh ‘Operation Parumala.’

Pakshe mone, Ommaaacha, kassu kothicchu mumbulla Pathrikkeeesu Bavamar palarum vannittu, enthaayi aa sabhayude gathi? Kooduthal parayikkaruthu. KETTO?

Ravi George said...

in fact we should thank people like Mr Oommen for coming to this site and do posting. Otherwise we do not think and get new ideas to know them and us. Thank yo ufor your posts OMMECHAN. You are alawys welcome (but don't bring GUNDAS her to murder us). Are you planning special rooms for GUNDAS in your new Parumal Church?

Ravi George said...

Dear Mathew

Kooduthal aalukale Parumalayil etthikan earppadakkunathinu nanniyundu.

Kaasu kabarinkal idaruthu ennu idakkidakku orpikkanam. Kasu nokkathe thanne avide ellavarkkum swagatham undu.

I think this the best chance for many Jacobites to paray at the KABR. I am sure they will understand us better now. At least let them know what is a saint.

Free aayi Prardhikkam. Pinne security okke ondakkendunna situation avide undkkaruthu. I mean do not plan to place a bomb in the tomb.

Convey our best regards to your Thirumeni who is in charge of Parumala.

Vayaliparamban said...

Heard there is lot of fish in the Pamba river near Parumala. So the Orthodox guys don’t have to worry about what the Puthencruz society Bishops and priests will do.
For their Bishops entering Parumala, for that matter even H.H Zakka can come there as a faithful, no issues. But no Achen forget about the Bishop from the Orthodox faction will dare enter Manarcad or Kothamangalum because fear of life.
Two years back, I went to Manarcad, with one of my relative, in an Innova car of one of our Bishop. The Bishop was not in the car. The only clue I can give is this Bishop has a relative as a Bishop in the Puthencruz society. After we returned from the church, there was a group of youth surrounding our Car. When the driver came near to the car to open it, the guys asked, Metran arodu chodichittannu ividey vannathu. Angaru enthiye? Then I intervened and told him that we are relatives of Thirumeni and had to say that we are also related to the Puthencruz Thirumeni and then a guy amongst the lot said, leave it. This is what as laymen we get treated at their church, for the reason we used Thirumeni’s car. So imagine what all these guys look at.
If you happen to meet Pradhaman ask him how was he treated when he came to Parumala a year ago?

Vayaliparamban said...

Our new Parumala Pally is in unique in many senses. The Architects may have their justification and many of us have our own criticism. I am also addicted to the old Eastern Syrian traditional churches.
What is more important is the faith we have at these churches not in the models.
However, whatever criticism we have for the new model Parumala church, has the flow of faithful stopped. On the contrary it has grown multifold. Now if we had to build the same according to one of the old Syrian traditional churches what difference it would have had? Nothing in particular.
Now the Puthencruz society is building a church at Parumala. Definitely some people will go there. Because the society guys will get all that Parumala Thirumeni has used in the Kappi cannon style and exhibit there and attract some fools. This was on the cards for long.
Now those critics of our new model Parumala church, imagine if we had to built a church according to the Syrian tradition, what do you think these jonies would have done. Copied the same stuff. Look at Puthupally what they did. They didn’t follow any Syrian architecture. Copy cat almost our Puthupally church.
Meanwhile, I remember these guys during the 2009 Bishop ordination at Puthupally, kept their church open through out and also cordoned their parking area with coir fence to keep our people from parking in that area. However our faithful were more courteous. They didn’t bother to park anywhere near to that church or bothered the watchman who was sitting in front of the church weeding away the flies around him.
In short let us praise Lord Almighty through the intercession of St.Gregorios worked through the Holy Synod to arrive at a consensus decision to approve this new plan brought buy L/L Dr. Paulose Mar Gregorios Thirumeni for the Parumala church.
I am confident not even a handful of people would have supported this plan if it was given a voting. Let us believe that this plan materialised only due to the grace of Almighty through the intercession of St.Gregorios. Can’t we consider it as a miracle for the takers?
We can always be proud that no where in the world there will be another church like our Parumala church. Can’t we be proud atleast in that uniqueness if at all we are concerned more on the cosmetics?

Reni said...

MY DEAR JACOBITE FRIENDS,

Earlier I compared Jacobites to Jinnah's Muslim League which successfully created a new country called Pakistan after dividing India. The success has turned into bitterness now. The state of Pakistan is threatened by even more dangerous fanatics called 'Taliban.' What a sorry state for a nation like Pakistan! This is because it was unethical to carve out a new country from India, who stood for freedom, peace and unity.
Lesson 1: DIVISION WILL LEAD TO FURTHER DIVISIONS

Now I shall give a more exact comparison -the LTTE. These militants demanded creation of a new country called TAMIL EALAM after dividing Sri Lanka. They fought war for decades, killed lakhs, assassinated top leaders of India and Lanka. They got suport from millions all over the world. Whenever they were almost on the verge of defeat they would cry HUMAN RIGHTS, PEACE, CEASSFIRE, MEDIATION, DEMOCRACY.... Experience taught the Lankan Govt that LTTE do not want real peace, they will understand the language of tough dealing. It was final. On the last day LTTE leader Prabakaran ended his life with a cyanide capsule That war the end of everything. Peace and stability is slowly returning to Lanka. Prabakaran with his agenda for a nation for Tamils, carried the Tamilians at least hundred years backward.

Lesson 2: Val edukkunnavan Valal

Jacobites want to cut the Church into two. Like Prabakaran, a leader is not ready for any compromise. They are murderers -- kaunayillathe kollunnavar. Ella vrithikedum kaanicchittu visuddhar ennu bhaavicchu natakkunnavar. ANEETHI KONDU SATHYATTHE THADUKKUNNAVAR. (Read Romans 1)
Lesson 3: LTTE leader Prabakaran's life should be a lesson for all those who call for separatism and division of the Church.
Lesson 4: UNITY IS STRENGTH

Reni said...

Heard that those arrested in the hand chopping case (Thodupuzha professorude Kaivettu case) are from Perumbavoor. Nammude Malankara varghese -ne konnavar aviduthukaralle. Ella aa belt anallo. Pandu Kothamangalam palliye patti oru blog-il, One jacobite said they would use Muslims to attack us when we come to Kothamangalam. Ithu polulla aalukal okke ivarude custodyil dhaaraalm undenu thonnunnu.

Ino Parumala koodi nattukkumo, Gundakale irakki? DAIVAME!

Ravi George said...

Vayaliparamban Sir

A couple of years back, two buses of pilgrims from Palarivattom Orthodox Palli who were on the way to visit varios church related places, dropped in to pray at the Kabr of Gregorios Abdul Jaleel (died in 1681) whose remains are interred in the Church at North Paravur. There were banners of the Palarivattom Church in front of the buses. As the people were praying and putting money in the church, a group of 25 people surrounded the bus. They started arguing with some men who were standing and waiting for others to come back. They were already late by one hour.) They said the had come to pray the akabr and not for arguing any curch issue. But the local church people were not ready to let the buses go easy. They felt the locals would not let us go without making them Shishyas of HB Thomas Bava.

Finally when they were let off afer some polite requests, it was almost half hour. Why these people are like this?

I think some of them do not have any work except loitering in the church premises. What a sorry of state of affairs!

Ravi George said...

I think, Jacobite coming off their ANGAMALY SHELL is helpful as the belivers will get a taste 'how other churches are run?'. They can know whether Didimos Bava taken hold of the Chuch properties.

But the problem is that Jacobite Church doesn't have many good leaders. Ordinary people are just puppets who do not have voice in the admistration or management of the Church.
Spiritual leadership: Thomas bava is the ultimate authority. Decisions are taken by Thomas bava unilaterally. Bishops are just pawns in his hands

Bibin Karthikappally said...

Valare dukhathodeyanu ee news vayichathu. Puthuppalliyil ethu pole vere oru church undakki. Eppol parumalayilum...Coorilos thirumeni, angayude kalkal veenu apekshikkukayanu..Dayavu cheythu parumalayilum kalahathinte vithukal vithakkaruthu..aa punya bhumi panamundakkanum thammil thallanum vediyakkaruthu. Viswasikal manasamadhanamayittu onnu prarthichu poykkotte..ulla samadhanam koodi thakarkkaruthu..pls..
Veruthe sapam medichu koottaruthu...Ethu kandu aa punya pithavu vedanikkum..

Shaino Jacob said...

Parumalayil Pathrayarkis karan undu. Pakshe Pampa collegentey vathukkal Punalurkarudey Viplavarishtam vittukondirunn aliney puthenkurishil vilichu pattam koduthavakayil Kalluvendatha Barsomasarintey kudumbam undu money. Avasanam Alappuza kkaran oru potti yude arikil poyi Koodothram varey aa kathanar cheyichathum annathey Shreshtan Paulos II Nadapady eduthathum ellam Njanglkkariyam. Athanu Parumalayilulla pathriyarkis kudumbam. Avasanam Marnashayayil Kidannappol Parumla seminariyiley oru vaidikanum Madrasil ninnu vanna oru vaidikanum Chernnanu Qurbana koduthathe ennuvarey ariyavunna vyekthiya njan. Seminariyile vanchi orunalum Kuranju pokilla. Kaaranam Marana shayyayil ayirunna Pithavinode ini Seminaruyudey karyangal enganey nadakkum ennu chodichappol annathe seminary chappelintey Madbahayude vadakkuvashathe oru sthalam vivarichukoduthittu Geevargees Ramban (Vattasheril Thirumeni) yoduparanju avidey oru Gkhani undedo avide ninnum ningal panam variedukkum. Parishudha Pithavu Kalam cheytha shesham anu aa sthalam adhehathintey Kabar sthapikkan ulla sthalm aney ennullathe. Athinal avidey vanchiyil Kuranju pokum ennullathe aarum vicharikkanda athe orunalum vattipokatha Anumgrahangaludey Uravaya. Athil ninnum anumgraham prapikkunna Naana Jaathi Matha stharu avidey nikshepichukollum. Ningal aarum Bharappedenda.

Oommen said...

I hate to reply but when i see the messages of Devalokam Soceity members , I am tempted to do so . On the fear that reader's may tend to believe that all is true in the 'Develokam society member's messages'.

I am glad that atleast one member of 'D' society concurred that there are Jacobite's in and around Parumala . But , He had qualified the Jacobites' in Parumala as Drunkards,Sinners and so on . My dear Friend's , Jesus came for sinners , Like Only patient's need the service of Doctor's . If all are saint's in 'D' soceity . THERE IS NO NEED FOR ANY CHURCHES OR PRIESTS ! ...... Also , Koodothram and prashnamveppu are the masterpieces of 'D' soceity . DONT FORGET THE PRESHNAM VEPPU IN YOUR SECRETRIAT AND PUTHUPALLY PALLY .

Another Member said that Jacobites or 'Puthencruz' soceity as they say started only in 2002.If that is the case , atleast our Bava is consecrated by the legal head of our Church !..with the FULL consent of the Synod . Not like your Church , which started in 1912(refer recent kalpana of Joseph Marthoma) by disobediant vattasserry Thirumeni . SO your church has germinated in DISOBEDIANCE and your Lord is the court and the constitution , and remember that you will end in that . LOOK WHAT HAPPEND TO VATTASSERY FAMILY due to the disobediance and acts against the Holy Church . IF SOMEBODY HAS ANY IOTA OF DOUBT IN THIS , They may ask anyone from Mallappally or Kaloopara.

Another 'D' soceity member is saying that they will get court order for Kothamangalam church and will see us there . Dear Friends , 15 year's before , one Old Thirumeni from Devalokam dreamt to do the same in Manarcadu , WHAT HAPPEND IN THE END ?!?!. There was numerous posters by Jacobites in and around Manarcadi at that time . I just want my friend to refer to what that poster said , 'IF somebody by force tries to take over Manarcadu, WE WILL DO EXACTLY WHAT COMES' TO THEM{what was in the poster} .'

Mr . Thomas Kuttikandathil , Please Lament for your Makarious who is not even Receiving a decent 'Orma' Qurbana. Makarious who BRIBED the judgement of 1958 is receiving for his deeds!!!.

Another 'D' member , said there is only one leader in the Jacobite Church . That is our H.B.YES IT IS TRUE , We only have one leader. ALL OF YOU ARE LEADER'S IN YOUR CHURCH . That is your PROBLEM and OUR STRENGTH . Look what happend recently in Vennikulam Church .'Andannum olla adakkodanum ellam ningalude neethakanmaar....
BLADE MAFIA.....

Another 'D' member said , that Jacobites are ordaining Bishop's after taking money . IF that is the case, you may refer the history book's and see how much money Pulikottil dionaysious , The great Parumala Bava , Your Saint Vattasheery the dissident , Late Ougen Bava , Etc have paid in the past .

Yes it is true , Our Bishop's are selected by Our H.B And the Synod not by 'Kochamma's [Kadapadu to MalankaraDeepam.com]

Another Guy is saying , Our Bishop's are making money for themselves . In contrary, it is Devalokam Bishop's that are amassing riches . Don't forget the Crore's of Rupees that YOUR LATE KOORILOSE BAVA lost
in the Blade Bank mishaps of Kottayam.

DONT TEMPT ME MORE ! =@
Ketto?!?!

MalankaraSyriacOrthodox said...

This is really sad. If the Cathlics or CSI had built a church in Parumala in a plot of land owned by them, no body would have cared. Even if some Pentacostal group had started a new prayer hall in Parumala no body would have cared. Now if fellow Oriental Orthodox Christians under the Patriarch of Antioch want to build a church in a piece of land paid for and owned by them, everybody is so agitated. Why ? Why is there so much hatred ? Everybody wants unity? But what kind of unity do we want? What is most important is not unity. What is most important in Christianity is LOVE. If we can love one another, then automatically from that love, peace and respect will flow. Then unity will occur when the time comes.
But we dont have LOVE and RESPECT, we will never have unity. Not only that, the faithful both factions will start leaving and start looking for other Christian churches where they think there is LOVE.

man said...

MOSC has built a church at Kothamangalam in the name of St Yeldho Mor Baselios , I believe that , that church was built as a place to offer worship to the saint and not for money

Now If JOSC decides to built a church where there primates and faithful can attend prayers ,they are trying to show their love and affection to St Gregoriose

At least one should thank to God , JOSC is building a new church ,They are not trying to close down any church by creating conflict .
I.e. Christianity ,

MOSC guys , U people are born to fight court cases , and it’s a fact that , All the church's which is closed are the one which is having a huge majority to Jacobites

Wherever MOSC has majority , JOSC has moved out and built their own churches

Curse is on people who make places of worship close , Kolenchery church is an example .

Think , come out of this hatred , I don’t think , only fanatic people can come out against opening of a church , can understand if people of other sect has some issues on new church

I believe , God will be happy to have more places of worship, and more people coming together and praying

Only people who doesn’t have Christianity will come out against building a new church , If you guys don’t want , Don’t go to the new church , JOSC is not forcing any one to come and offer prayers at church

MOSC people are worried about losing the money , they are money minded , They need ""Khabar"" for getting money , they don’t believe in saint

I doubt whether this will be posted

Dear MOSC guys , Did JOSC raised any objection towards MOSC church at KOthamangalam ,

That is Christianity , JOSC believe in God and have faith in God
While MOSC believes in Court
which judged Jesus Christ as a culprit

Jesus Christ never got his due from court of land , as the allegations and witness were framed there , the way MOSC do in courts now a days ....and say truth has finally won .....

Modern day Jews ....... i.e MOSC ….GUYS THINK ….AND COME TO CONCLUSION

Nibu said...

Kashtam ennallath enthu parayana, parumala thirumeni yude namathil orupalli parumalayil paniyunnathinu Parumala thirumeni ettu paranja vishwasam innum pinthudarnnu varunna Syrian Orthodox kar sramikkumpol enkilum ee kanjikuzhi followers inte kanji parupadi nirthi kude, ningal evide poyalum vanchiyil vizhunna kaashanu nottam ennu ellavarkkum ariyam. Oroo kariyam paranju Thomas prathaman bava kku ethire case koduppikkan allathe didimosinu enthanu eppam pani, Aluvayil ningal thomas prathaman bava keraruthu ennu paranju case koduthittum kodathi sathyam manasilakki pallikal pootiyidan ullathalla, thurannu vishwasikalku parthikan ullathanu ennu paranju 2 divasam thurannittu.

Eethinellam ningal eviduthe cash anu use cheyunnath, paraumala yil parishudha pithavinte kabarinkal kanneerodu koodi vishwasikal samarppikkuna cash. athil 100 il 1 rupayenkilum jacobite kar idunnathum koodiyanu, ennum karuthi jacobite kar avide varuthilla ennum, eniyum avide paisa idathilla ennum alla, Njangal njangalude thirumeni yude kabaril njangalkku jeevan ulla kalatholam varum avide mezhukuthiri kathichu parthikkum.. Parumalaye ningal sharikkum kashundakkunna oru sthalam ayi mathrame kandittullu, athinulla shiksha athu cheythavar anubhavichu kollum....

Parumalayil ulla nalloru palli polichu kalanju Igloo pole oru palli paniju vechu ethra kodi yanu ninigalued annathe parishutha bavayum adhekathinte secretari marum adichu mattiyath, secretari marude ICICI bank account parishodichal ningalku thanne athu manasilakum ( oru kathanarku bankil millions balance). 2 kollam kondu theeranda pani neeti 5 kollam palli paniyude perilum ningal pirichu...

Engane vishwasikale rashtriya karekal tharaa parupadi kanichu pattikunna oru sabha nethrutham lokathil engum kanathilla....

Njangal parumalayil palli vekkunnath parishudha pithavinodulla madhyasthathayil adhehathinte namathil ulla Palliyil vannu parthikkanau ( Allathe Igloo vil poyil parthikan alla)

preju said...

I dont understand that what is the problem in it.100% jacobites & orthodox are 2 separate churches.if jacobites want a church in parumala what's wrong in it.In puthuppally jacobites made a church,what happened there?nothing.thats better than filing cases again and again.orthodox can also buy land and build churches for their own at manarcad and kothamangalam.it is better than running to court.do you think any orthodox bishop can enter at manarcad church?impossible

Vayaliparamban said...

Oommen has got both diarrhea and vomiting. This is the side effect of too much of Antiochyan Karuppu. A request to MTV, please cordon of this patient to Malankara Syriac Voice. They are the ones who always encourage diarrhea and vomiting patients.

The morning sickness their mother gets when these guys are conceived in her womb gets transmitted to the children and when they grow up they get vomiting aswell and some get allergic reaction to some people, names and places.
Please don’t treat them here as this is a contentious disease which is very very difficult to get treated. All the result of an illegal drug trafficking from the so called Christians from Arabia.

Noby said...

Hay Orthodox people,why you are so much worried about construction of a Jacobite church. I knew that you bought the land in Parumala which we gave advance for parumala church for double price before because of the fear of Jacobite church .Not only you but also everybody knows that you have only the body of St Gregorious ,but that saint's soul is with us because He respected Antioch and Patriarcheese untill his death.He never opposed the Antiochian Patriarcheese .So I don't know what is your qualification to keep that church and tomb .

Jeevan said...

Hello Oomman,

First of all thank you correctly spelling Vattasheril and not the usual spelling which you PC members use.

First of all, your only allegation against Vattasheril Thirumeni is that, he was disobedient.

Disobedient to whom? Kottayam Thallipoli CJ Kurian and his cronies?

CJ Kurian , was a then landlord, with many muslim goondas working for him.

Why on earth should a Bishop, head of a church, have partnership or association with such a ‘muthalali’.

The Patriarch Abdulla, was packed from India, because, he went around selling ‘mooron’ for money, collecting money from various people and finally went to Syria and Joined the Reethu Catholic church. Then gave money to muslim turks and became Patriarch.

Even Parumala Thirumeni was involved in complaining against Abdulla to Pathrose Patriarch.

Mooron vittu nadanna Patriarchissinnem, Kottayathe No.1 Tallipoli yeem disobey cheythanannu Vattasheril Thirumeni cheytha kuttam.

Have some shame to type nonsense about a saint.

John Marettu, Kochi said...

Puthenkurisu Society Members Karyamariyathe Bhahalam Vakkukayalle Ennu Samsayikkunnu.

M TV yude Purakilulla Chilar Geevarghese Coorilos Thirumeniyumayi Aduppamullavaranu. Athukondu M TV Bodhapoorvam Ithinu Importance Kodukkunnathalle Ennu Enikku Samsayam Undu.

John Marettu, Kochi

Jomon said...

Dear Bibin Karthikappally.

Very soon we will be building new church is Karthikappally & Haripad.
There are at least 25 families are in Karthikappally St. Thomas & Haripad St. Mary Churches eagerly waiting for this occasion. Now they are forcefully attending in IOC Churches. They do not have any other option.

Our doors are open to all those who trapped in IOC fold, you are also welcome, Think for your salvation my brother.

Jomon

Ravi George said...

Mr Ommen,

I lament your lack of reasoning and presentation skills. You are the typical example how a person can lose his balance and reasoning by continues Goebbelian propaganda directed by your HB Thomas. Fortunately, the number of such persons in the Jacobite camp are dropping day by day. The best evidence is the piteous meeting conducted in your 'Angamaly Fort' Alwaye 8th August. 9th

The Hindu (9th August 2010) reported the total number of participants quoting JACOBITE CHURCH SPOKESMAN. But your online media Malankara Syriac Voice said 'more than 20, 000 thronged to the venue.'

If The Hindu report is incorrect, I challenge you to approach the Readers Editor of The Hindu.

His email is: readerseditor@thehindu.com telephone 044-28418297/28576300 (11 am to 5 pm)
Mail: Reader's Editor, The Hindu, Kasturi Buildings, 859 & 860 Anna Salai, Chennai -600 002. All communication must carry the full postal address and telephone number. More details can be had from www.thehindu.com. ( You must check their official site as I am not the authorized person to speak on The Hindu's behalf)

When you complain, I hope, the Reader's Editor will look into it. I believe, then the reporter will naturally reveal the number of participants according to his observation.

Remember your friendly newspaper Mathrubhoomi has given only 'HUNDREDS of People'. Malayala Manorama did not specify any number, obviously NOT to embarrass you. You must thank www.malankaraorthodox.tv for giving you a large figure <2500 for the day. So you can be proud that all Jacobites obeyed your leader's Kalpana in letter and spirit for 'Sabhayile eattavum valiya koodivaravu. YOU MADE HISTORY!

Now about SOCIETY: You can find societies in every nook and corner of Kerala. People know what they are actually. Jacobite Church can be proud about its uniqueness as there exists no other Church in the world whose so called 'constitution' has been registered according to the SOCIETY ACT.

The phase 'Randu kalilum manthullavan oru kalil manthullavane "manuthukala" ennu vilikunnu' is well-known. Jacobayakkar Randu kaalilum Manthu vecchu kondu oru kalilum manthillatthavane “mathukala” ennu vilikunnu. What a joke!

Our 1934 Church Constitution, older than even our Nation's own Proud Constitution, was approved by the Hon'be Supreme Court with amendments made according to Jacobite rebels' wishes and was also agreed to abide by HB Thomas and team in Courts. This itself proves what kind of person is HB THOMAS. Do you think any reasonable person will agree with your calling us Society? You are losing your credibility because of false allegations like this.

Common people who are now reading these discussions can easily judge who is society and who is not. In fact you are feeling self-pity. That is why educated people are leaving your Society. Great organiser HB Thomas's losing credibility has affected the Alwaye meet on 8th August. Remember our rally in Kottayam was organised within two week simply on a kalpana by HH Didimos Bava.


(Continues to PART 2)

Ravi George said...

(Continuation of Part 1)
You had said HH Mathews II Bava lost money. Though I do not have the facts, I know, people, can lose money in so many ways. If at all it is true, it is an individualistic issue. HH must have trusted some people who must have cheated him. I have no qualm about HB Thomas transferring your church money into Cheruvalli Trust. But I am concerned that Bishop-hood is for sale in your church. The rate for the visit of HH Patriarch to churches was too high that some of the churches who couldn't raise so much money were removed from the list in the last minute.

A church should function on principles of justice and truth. Autocracy is not the right way though it may produce some fantastic initial results. There were many 'successful' autocrats like Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Idi Amin etc. Get some history lessons. Check what happened to their nations after their reign was over. Your HB Bava had declared more than one time he was quitting.. That is the only decision he cannot take himself! Ha ha ha.. I remember he said this in Thuiruvanthapuram in 2005 or 2004. Everybody now knows he was playing just emotional dramas. The funny thing is that there are still some people like you who believes it is true. But a very large number of people now realise it is folly. When Hitler was in power, the Germans were actually extremely proud about him and they used to glorify him. Your praising HB Thomas is just parallel.

Regarding selection of bishops, our system has worked very well and it is in accordance with the decision of the Malankara Association. There are obvious reason for www.malankaradepam.com for saying it. But no one can help such people. If he knew that the election procedure was 'kochamma' style, why had he tried it more than once?

When I heard for the first time in my life that money paid to one person is the only criteria in one church for making a bishop, I did not believe. But a couple of years back, I came to know about a fund raising effort done in a very close family for making their family member a bishop. I don't think your future generations will feel proud about it. You told about your Church Synod. What is your synod? A council of bishops who bribed to buy red Kuppayams and still do not have churches!

Bu the by, have you gone through NATIANAL GEOGRAPHIC MAGHAZINE (June 2009) cover story on Arab Churches. Remember it is not a publication edited or owned by the Orthodox Church. Read and tell me whether your UNIERSAL ANTOCHIAN CHURCH still exist in the world. Study Antochian constitution as well. Are you people not SLAVES without dignity?

And finally, About Kothamangalam. You know more and more people in that church now think eventually their church will be governed according to the legitimate 1934 Constitution and there will be permanent ban for your bishops. Wait and see as you lose cases and we gain acceptance among members of your society. Ommen, Kothamangalam case is just a forerunner. Manarcad and others are on the way. We can wait any long because WE LOVE PEACE. We are proud about India and we are law abiding people. You said about some action plan and we know well that Jacobites can plan and execute it. But please remember about the hand chopping incident in Thodupuzha and know how many are in jail now. You opportunists and murderers remember, TIMESS ARE CHANGING! You know one of the reasons for the failure of Alwaye meeting was your priests are no longer serious about HB Thomas's Kalpanas because they think that 1934 will come into effect in all the churches sooner or later.

Ravi George said...

People in Malankara are very sensitive about Parumala Thirumeni. Every Christian who love Parumala Thirumeni wants to pray at the tomb of Thirumeni. if jacobites build a new St Gregorios Church it is good. There are many Jacobite churches and it is not an issue at all

But my worry is this: THEY WILL HIDE GUNDAS AND MURDERERS THERE JUST LIKE THEY HID MALANKARA VARGHESE's MURDERERS IN MANJANIKKARA AND OTHER CHURCHES. Finally , people wil misunderstad that Gundas hid in Parumala Thirumeni' khabar.

We should consider this important issue.

Ravi George said...

Can we have a blog on ANTIOCH CHRISTIANS as these Jacobites look upon Antioch as a place of salvation.?

I have written a long article on why Antioch will fade away from Malankara - 20 Resons Why Future Will Not Hold For Antioch in India.

I will expand it and publish it is a book for my Jacobite brothers who have been affected with Antioch Virus

Ravi George said...

Jomon is dreaming about building Jacobite Cathedrals in every villages of Kerala. Malnkara Syriac Voice said JC has more than 25000 people in the nearby Churches of Alwaye. MSV did not tel why they had not tey come. (From whole universe less than 2500 people had coem to Alwaye on 8th August). IF YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW IT WAS ORGANISED PLEASE READ HB THOMAS BAVA'S KALPANA to all the Churches. (It is given on this site).

Jomon, Hope the new Churches in places like Haripad will make up for this. best wishes!

Ravi George said...

'Viswasa marakshakan' should start an ARABIC EDITION to save the Antioch church and HH Pariarch.

They have a newly constructed '70-room' building which shows their GROWTH

Reni said...

The Facts:

Jacobites tried a lot to rebrand Parumala Thirumeni as Chatthuruthi Thirumeni. The name Parumala Thirumeni is as old as ages when the Saint started living there. With affection, people used to call him as Kochu Thirumeni and Parumala Tirumeni. So this new branding was tried with EVIL MOTIVES and it did not work as they had planned.

Secondly, they spread lies that the PRUMALA Church is diverting coins dropped at the khabr for legal cases. they repeatedly told their people not to go Paruamala or drop coins there. NOBODY LISTENED TO IT because that was an evil idea took shape in the minds of some DIRTY people. Last weeek an ardent follower of the Jacobite faction, a good friend of mine, went to Parumala. There are hundreds of people like that...

Now the latest move is to divert the Jacobite faithful to their own Church. Let us watch this experiment.

How could anyone who consider Parumala Thirumeni as saint fail to pray at the real TOMB?

BUT MY REQUEST TO The PARUMLA PALLI leaders:
NEVER NEVER make the place where te Saint PARUAMALA THIRUMENI lived and died and is RESTING now, a centre of competition for MONEY.
This is a game of SATAN. These people who may or may not have one or two familes are just envied and is also trying to expand the quarrels. Never be bothered and prayer is the only way to beat this SATAN. Parumala Thirumeni had driven away satan when he was living there.

People be watchful, whoever visits Parumala pali, should go only for prayer and with love. Money should never take the place of humility and prayer.

Reni said...

I appreciate the idea that LOTS of jacobite are coming to visit the site (Or are they just one or two poeple posting in different names?)
Fine. At least we can convince them not to fight on street or do theriveli. May be the blog manager too has a tough time!

My general observation: Few among them are good or reasonable ones. This is mostly because they receive only this kind of sentimental pushes and not the right kind of thinking. Has Jacobite Church ever produced any good theologians?

Moolayil achen Moolayillathe Viswasamarakshankanil koodi therivili nadatthunnu. Pinne kure brainless aalukal .. ithupole postkalil kayarunnu. It will take at least 2 generations for these people to come anywhere near the level of the Orthodox Church

Jomon said...

Dear Roy, wait and see…. Kananpokunna pooram kandu manasilakku… we will build churches with members in these both places in one year. That time also you should show your face in this blog with same statement.

Jomon said...

Dear Ravi George. If Jacobite Church is registered under SOCIETY, what about your so called church? Did you ever checked? Go to Devalokam and find out, how your church is registered? Then talk about others. If you are going to Devalokam, also enquire why they are hiding the name JACOBITE in your official seal? Hope you know the way to Devalokam!!!!

Jomon said...

Dear Ravi George. If Jacobite Church is registered under SOCIETY, what about your so called church? Did you ever checked? Go to Devalokam and find out, how your church is registered? Then talk about others. If you are going to Devalokam, also enquire why they are hiding the name JACOBITE in your official seal? Hope you know the way to Devalokam!!!!
Dear Reni, everyone know who is branding Parumalthirumeni!!! Please understand the tradition of your church before you make any public statements. Most of the bishops in Malankara is called by their family name. Hope you know why your saint Mar Dionysius Geevarghese is called “Vattassery Thirumeni” ? Same way many believers call ParumalaThirumeni in different names, one among in it is “Chatthuruthi Thirumeni”.

Ravi George said...

Jomon

You people do not have brains just as Reni commented.
Jomon, read my reply to Ommen which clealy says about the official constitution of the Church approved by the SC and also by your Thomas Thirumeni and team. He had demanded amendments which were all done. fear of losing, he did not participate in the election to the seat of Malankara Metropolitan. He was alway saynig He had majority. had he got majortiy, he could have easily won.

Our 1934 constitution is not a society which allows any member-church can quit anytime as it wishes. That is the reason you people regstered your society, because in the

court you can say that you are still under the 1934 constitution. You will know how weak is your soceity when some problem comes. For example, if one of your Society member-churches decides that they join Gurgan, what can you do? Nothing except pleading with them. Priests and bishops of jacobite Church are just like Palli Thozhilalikal appointed by the member-church.

But see how powerful is 1934 constition! Even HH Patriach has to abide by that only, if anytime he wishes to interfere in the Church. The real power to belivers and Godly bestowd power to priests. None can break it. It is a strong bond!

Stiil more, your slavery under Antiochian law is even worse to handle. I pity you people!

Ravi George said...

Dear Jomon, sorry, I just missed about telling about name JACOBITE.

Actually it was a misnomer. The Malankara Church ever since it came into contact with the Antiochian church, also came to be called like that. It was others who called people who stood with Saint Yakob Burdana as jacobites. it was not the original church name.
It is like someoneelse naming our baby.

That is why we are no longer using it. If anywhere it is still in use, it wil be corrected. For example, in my father's SSLC book, it is writen as Jacobite. But mine and my sibling's it is ORTHODOX.

We have renamed Trivandrum as Thruvananathapuram because Trivandum was given by Sayippu. But you can find still people using it and even in official records. A church which has a history of 2000 years may need many decades or centuries to complete a correction.

I do not know for what reason you are using because even the name of Antich church doesn't have teh word Jacobite. Expecting a reply Jomon, Thank you

Ravi George said...

Dear all friends,

We are all sensitive about Church issues. But there is a relationship between all the Orthodox (I am using this word for my Jacobite brothers as well, since the real name of Antioch Church is also Orthodox) faithful.

Orthodox Churches all over the world fight. But the UNITY OF FAITH is the strongest bond among them. (The world renowned weekly THE ECONOMIST mentiond this fact once) It can never be severed.

I sicerely apologise if I have hurt any of my brothers in the Jacobite Church. It was never intentional as I stood (in future as well) for the unity of the Church in Malankara since no Christian is allowed to cut the Church into two, as it is the body of Christ. IT IS SIN.

Ravi George said...

family name for Bishops? The moment you become Sanyasi, you are laeving the family. The whole Church is your family, You become a father to all the faithful.
That is why rambans get new name. Bishop too.

It is soem people, who want to identify Thirumenis do this. For example Pulikkottil Thirumeni. Some families are encouraging it. It is a very dangerous thing in fact! It can even affect their spiritual life. Lot of bishops have been spoiled by their own families. Let us avoid this completely.

Reni said...

I think we will see lots of changes taking place in Malankara in the next 25 years.

Orthodox faith has got a very brilliant future in India if we all can stay united. Staying United is the Godly given challenge. Dividing and cutting is easy and is SATANIC. Will we stay for SATAN or for GOD?

We should do justice to our next generation.

There are extraneous forces at work who want to kepe us divided. Some of them who are really strong will all want to keep us divided.

Who is the rela winner if we awe united. We are all winners irrespective of factions.
Who is the loser if we are divided? WE BOTH.

Unity is important for Antiochian Church as well. Only by that we can ensure that our generations wil remaion in communion with Univeral Syrian Church.
Or as generations go by, there will be further divisions, and more people wil split away, I think goode sense wil prevail

justin said...

Dear IOC Brothers,

This is the first time I am writing in this forum..

I Was going through all the posts..But I dont Understand why u guyz are quarreling agianst a church which is coming in the name of St.Gregorius ....

Most of them are worried about the money...They fear tht this will affect their revenue....IS this Christianity...???


This the clear example shown by the JSOC to how to avoid conflict and church closing......Church is built for Worshiping god and not for cases and fight...
I am a jacobite Member of thumpamon diocese...We understand that we are minority here so we built our own churches in our land....Eg..Kaipattoor,Omallur,Vazhamuttam etc....

Especially in the case of Omallu church...We jacobites have a strength of more than 250 members and IOC has more than 400...still we didnt file case against the church...We built a new church and we made peace..the same happened in the above mentioned churches...

y cant IOC follow this in Northern Dioceses...?

Y your church is Filing case to close down the church....

In parumala it is our dream to build a church for st.Gregorius...and I believe that its becoz of his prayer we got the land....

So guyz I request..Consider our Bava as a old human being ..Dont try to throw mud on him if you really dont know anythin about HB..It hurts us badly..so Please give respect and take respect...

Jomon said...

Dear Ravi George, You don’t know that neither of the constitutions allows anyone to come and go carrying with them the churches and institutions until the Supreme Court declares so. This is a pending case, and as far as now it is the High Court that has declared that if the majority of members in a parish wishes to switch loyalties between any two Churches (without any change to their fundamental declarations), they have the freedom to do so. And if the same judgment is upheld by Supreme Court also at some point of time, then “Devalokam Society” too will have to accept this. In this scenario the 1934 constitution will become irrelevant with respect to this clause… Learn before talk

Malankara Orthodox TV said...

Parumala and Puthenkurisu Society
Pl. Visit
http://www.malankaraorthodox.tv/Parumala/puthenkurisuparumalapally.jpg

- Rinu Vettiyar

Reni said...

WHO IS INTERESTED IN MAKING THIS AN ISSUE?

When some films and products are launched in the market, those who invested money would plan and execute some issues to get some attention and free publicity.

I learned that Jacobite do not have members for a church in Parumala. If they don’t have members what is the need of the church?

Nor do they have the money or strength in that locality to build a church. Then who will build the church? And for whom? They want Jacobites in other places to contribute to build and maintain the church. I noticed that all the Kalpanas of the bishops have been uploaded on their sites. They know, donations can come only if they can make an issue about Parumala Church.

So the strategy is very clear.
This plan has been on the anvil for quite some time. All methods to diminish the name of Parumala Church had failed. They had tried to re-brand Parumala Thirumeni as Chatthuruthi Thirumni, made propaganda that coins dropped in the khabar are used for church cases, asked people not to pray in the Parumala Church, made some other churches ‘centers of miracle’ and such… everything has failed by the Saintly help. SO THE NEW STRATEGY IS TO MAKE A REBEL PARUMALA THIRUMENI. This is not like building a church in Puthuppally or in any other place.

MY ADVICE TO ALL THE ORTHODOX CHURCH MEMBERS: Let anyone do whatever they want. Pease do not interfere. You should know that their strategy is to make an issue out of nothing, create sentiments and then using that feeling to raise funds. If it works properly, after some years, they might extend quarrels to Parumala too. This is just like having separate ORMA KUBANAS by children in a family. Will Thirumeni be pleased to see it during the Perunnal time? Parumala Thirumeni had warned believers not to get cursed by making divisions and quarrels in Churches. Please do not be party to those curses by the saint. Probably the name of Parumal Thiumeni is the only thing which both Orthodox Church and Jacobites fear. That too is on danger now. SO PLEASE STAY away from any quarrel so that we, our families and generations escape the Curse. SOONYAMAKKUNNA MLECCHATHA namukku venda.


My advice to Jacobite members: You are free to build whatever you want anywhere. But don’t think that you can extend unfortunate quarrels of Northern districts here. It is not a suitable ground, particularly in Parumala where anyone will feel the saintly presence. Lakhs of people from all the communities go there. There are no restrictions for anyone in Parumala. No one is asking you money there. Please do not be misled by absolute false statements made by certain sources with special intentions.

I believe that anyone who makes quarrel in Parumala, whatever he does, will not be good for him and his generations. There are many places where Jacobites do not have Churches in spite of members living in that locality. Why are these people not soliciting money for such places? MAY I TELL YOU HUMBLY THAT IF THE INTETIONS OF THESE PEOPLE WHO PROJECT THIS PLAN IS NOT GODLY, HEAVENS WILL HOLD THEM REPONSIBLE FOR MAKING PARUMALA A PLACE OF SHAME BEFORE OTHERS. THOSE WHO HELP THEM ARE ALSO PARTNERS. WE ALL SEEK intersession OF THE SAINT. Can we expect Thirmeni to be hapy by having a rebel place in the name of the Saint near his own rest place? The decision is yours. Do whatever you want.

Please pray for all of us, PARUMALA THIRUMENI

eldo said...

Words of justin above...So guyz I request..Consider our Bava as a old human being ..Dont try to throw mud on him if you really dont know anythin about HB..It hurts us badly..so Please give respect and take respect...
justin
madani=thomas pradhan,no differance between these two.pinne eni enna anthioch land vagunnea.ohh athinu avide varumanam ellallow.anthioch ennum thoompa allea.angottu kondupokkunathanallow eppozhathea parambara

Ipe said...

hi
friends

nammal enthinanu vishamikkunnathu, avaru land vagiyathinu?avaru palli vechotte athinentha? still i did not understand y our people concerned about them,Osthathios thirumeni paranjathu pole nammal avare thadayanda avashyam ella ennanu ente abhiprayam... paraumalayil varunnavar ennu avide varum, eppol avide pethocosth karu hall undakkiyal nammal engane prathikarikkumo?
no need to think about them,avar orikkalum nammude palliyil varunnavare thadanju avarude palliyil kayattan pokunnilla , pinne entha?AVARAYI AVARUDE VAZHI AYI, NAMUKKU NAMMUDE KARIYAM NOKKAM, PARUMAL HOSPITAL VALARANAM ATHINE PATTI ELLAM CHINDIKKU VERUTHE AVARE ENGANE OTHUKKAM ENNUM MATTTUM CHIDICHU TIME KALAYATHE
!!!!

justin said...

@Eldo

May the lord almighty forgives you...
From your reply it reveals your immaturity...

Pinne....About Antioch..

If you read bible..you wouldn't tell anything against Antioch...

IOC karku eppozhum cashinte kaaryam mathrame parayaan ulllalloo....We are very much happy to give our contributions to our father and to antioch...Enthina IOC athil Kallu kadikkunnne...Ningalude kayyil ninnum oru single pennny vangichitttillaloo....

I would say they are the only existing Christians facing difficulty to worship....But still they are stubborn and stand in the same faith...We are having enough freedom here but still you guyz are filing cases to close down the churches....Is it Christianity...?

jamon said...

i am proud to be syriyan jacobite christian by birth .i am proud of all our true jacobites bishops and followers.we have been thaught to respect all religion and not abuse like you people are doing.
instead of abusing us,u should also feel proud as a true christian and appriciate the upcoming of new MGM charch in parumala.

witth prays to one and all
jaimon Dubai

Saju said...

May be this anger towards the construction of a church at Parumala will stop if Gurgan bishop starts to build one there.

Saju,USA.

eldo said...

mone justin.ninakku onnu ariyilla yaco upaya sabhaude working.kasumedichu,thenguthoppuvarea ezhuthivangi,koyantea kadele poottu kuttinnu put thallunna pole allea ningale bishop vazhcha.monu ethraum pakkatha undengi thomas achanea metran aakkunna oru padaum oru jeevanulla witness parayamo?pinne 2002 le socity enganea.swathinu tharkkikkunnu.vittittu poyeekoodea.ningalennu ponthicosthu pokunnavarkku ningalethengilum kodukkunnudo.puthiya sabahyil pokunnar athupole allea vendathu

justin said...

Mone Eldo,

Swantham palllu kuthi naatikaathe...Everyone knows that how you guyz are selecting your Bishops...

If you Compare your bishops with ours,your bishops are good for nothing...So don't Ever compare it ....

Jsoc 2002 il aanu roopappettethenkil IOC 1934 il aaanu.....Apppo evidey poyi ningade 2000 varshathe simhasanam....

Can you provide me at least a single proof showing that The So called throne of St.Thomas was existing here before 1912...

Noby said...

Hello Mr Eldho,Njangal 7 methranmareyonnum orumichu vazhichittilla,etahndu vashikku goal adikkunnathu pole .Pinne methran thiranjeduppil vote marikkan lakshangal marichathu eldho kandillannu thonnunnu,Moosa Goorgane methranayi vazhichathu enthu yogyatha nokkiyanennu parayamo,Tholiveluppu alle,koodathe kure Euroyum ,thante perinu karanakkaranaya pithavine ayachathu Anthiochya simhasanathil ninnanu.Anthyokya simahasanam vendengil pinnenthinu Kothamangalam palliyil avakasham venam.Oh valiya bhandaram,college ellam ellam.Swathinte pinnale nadakkunna IOC suhruthukkalodu oru vakku.avnavan adhwanichu undakkiayathe agrahikkavoo,allathe 1934 le bharanaghadanayude ningalkkanukoolamaya bhagam mathram ghshikkunna pazhaya style eni chilavakilla .kettallo

Mathew said...

Let the Puthencruz society play another gimmic near Parumala. Years before Perumpalliy metran played a similar gimmic by announcing that the soul of our beloved saint had migrated to Kothamangalam.Parumala Thirumeny is the sentinal guard of Orthodox Church. Any action by the society members is like digging their own grave and I am sure the end game has already started.

vinup said...

Parumala thirumeni yude agraham anooo, parumalayil than ekkalum, snehicha, parisudha, jacobaya suriyani orthodox sabyude pravarthanagal undganam enoo, athu davia estamanoo, athu nakkum. eni etra per angry ayalum, devathite estam athaannkail athu nakkum.

sholomo...davaim anugrahikatee. 1934 lile bible alla sabha. sabha ennal appostolika manuu. athinu athiteethya parusudhi undoo. ethayaul, yakkobhya sabhakoo athe undo. appostolikam. 1934 bhathagamalla. kaveppum, appostolic pinthudharchayumanoo paradhanam. baki ellam devathite estam. Manusika kodathium, penne manoramayum onnum alle sabah kariyam thriumanikunnahtu. Thiyum kuruthathu, velaythu vadumooo. athanoo yakobhya suriyasni orthodox sabha. AD 37 pathrose sleeha sabha sthapithachu muthal sabhakko peednagal undayitundoo. athil ninne ellam kalakalgalil, sabha uyarthaezhunettitundoo. eniyum angene thanne ayirikkum.

Shlomo

eldo said...

justinum noblem,chothichathinallalo marupadi.ari ethra ennu chothichappo payaru anjazhi enna pole.pinne ningalkku ariyavunna pole alengi ellavarkkum ariyunnapole transperant anu nagade election allathea thomas metran swayam theerumanikkunnapole eakathipathyam alla.pinnea comparison of bishop.athinu yogatha ulla ethu bishopa ningalkku uulathu.
malabar-pennu case,angamaly kolapathakam-kandanad......eni nan parayano thomas metran okkea.paranjan nee paranjapole pallu kutty manakkunnathako?

Andrew John said...

PC members have the right to build a church at Parumala.They can bring people from other places for the worship.At that time they could go to the real place of worship.Only one humble request.Please don't bring Joys and Thekkekkaras to that holy place.Dear mr.um macha,do you know what happened to Patriarch Abdulla?.He was greedy and sold mooran for money.He wanted all our church property in his name including the golden cross of Puthuppally.Vattasseril thirumeni couln't agree with that.That is the only reason for the ex-communication.Abdulla became blind and couldn't even see his native place.At the same time Vattasseril thirumeni canonized as a sait.Vattasseril family members are all over the world and in good position.A few members may be in a different situation just like Cheruvally family.Most of the Cheruvally family members are nice but some of them have a tendency to commit suicide.We can't blame Cheruvally family members as a whole for that.If you want Piramadam dayara chief cook as your leader just follow him.You deserve it.Good luck.

Mathew said...

Anthrayose chetta... Abdellah Mor Gregorios metrachan Mooon vilkkann malankara karangi nadannappol koottinu poyatharannenno ? Vattasseril geevarghese malpan... full time pullikaaranum koodeyundaayirunnu.... Ningade thanne historian cheeranachan parayunnathu randu perum bhayangara koottayirunnu enna.. appol e vitttu kittiya pannathil nalla oru panku vattasseril malpanachanum kittikaannumallo alle ?

Enittum metraan aakan vendi " canonika patriarchese " Abdel Messiha jeevichirunnittum " dravyagrahiyaya " Abdellah patriarchese inde aduthu thanne pokendi vannnallo...

Ee kaadu kayarathe parumaliyil njangal njangalde paisa upayogichu njangalkkuvendi pally vekkunnathukondu ningalkkentha budhimuttennu aarum paranjilla...

Jeevan said...

Mathew said "Abdellah Mor Gregorios metrachan Mooon vilkkann malankara karangi nadannappol koottinu poyatharannenno ? "

Kude Mathewvinthe vakyille oru appuppanumundayirnnnu...athalle kadha okke itra sherikku ariyavunne...Enthoru confidence gundu adikumbol...

Mathew Said,"Enittum metraan aakan vendi " canonika patriarchese " Abdel Messiha jeevichirunnittum " dravyagrahiyaya " Abdellah patriarchese inde aduthu thanne pokendi vannnallo... "

Sabha parazhu, Vattasheril Thirumeni anusarichu. Vattasheril Thirumeni swantham isthatinnu kettum ketti poyathallla.Annu 2 sabha illarunnu...Ivide ullavar thirumanichu, thirumeni athu anusarichu...

Avasanam yakoba kunzhadukal sammadichu,Abdulla mooron vittu nadanennu....

Mathew, Gundu adikkan ulla kazhivu aparam thanne... Onnu ortho thonnivasam parayunne or thirumeniye pattiya... Etra thalamura jathi pidikkum ennu kandu ariyam....

Rinu Vettiyar said...

Dear Puthenkurishu Members,

Malankara Orthodox Sabhayude nenjathu chavutti Sreshttante Chavittu nadakathinte avasana bhagamanallo Parumalayil Nadakkan Pokunnathu, Ente Ponnu Makkale Parumalayil Vannu Urachu Mindan Malankara Orthodox Sabhayude Kochu pillerodu polum ningal anuvadham chodhikendi Varum, but athinu njangal thayyaralla Gundayissam kattunnathu njangalalla

Manyathayude Bhashayil njangal Paryunnu Parumalayil Palli paniyallu Malankara Orthodox Sabhaikku Kurachu nalathe Prathisandhi mathrame athiloode undavukayullu, ennal Puthenkurishile Srashttan Orupadu vishamikendi varum,
Dear Members,
Manjanikkarayilo, allenkil Ningal theerthadana kendramayi Prakhyapicha oru Devalayathinte sameepathu Orthodox Sabha Same Church Paninjal ningal athine accept chaiyumo?

Anavashyamaya oru nadapadiyanu ithu athu ningalil chilarkenkilum manasilayittund, aveshamalla vivekamanu aavishyam, Plze Malankara Sabha makkale Vishamippikkunna ee nadapadiyil ninnum ningal pinamranam Plze

Parumala Thirumeniyude namathil evide venamenkilum ningalkku Palli paniyam, Sabhayude nenjathu veno palli paniyan orikkal koodi parayunnu Palli paninjal ningalkku athoru vijayam aayirikkam pakshe kurchu nimishangalkku vendiyulla vijayam aayirikkum, athinte peril orupadu vishamikendi varum sreshttanum koottarum, karanam Nerum neriyum vittulla kaliyanu epol ningal kalikkunnathu.

Malankara Orthodox Sabha Pithakkanmar enthu Parayunno athu anusarikkan Njangal thayyaranu Vettanum Kollano onnumalla, Njangalude sabhaikku vendi Jeevan kodukkanum njangal thayyaranu

Rinu Vettiyar said...

Malankara Orthodox Sabhayude Nialapadu vyakthamakkanam.

Rinu Vettiyar said...

http://www.malankaraorthodox.tv/Parumala/puthenkurisuparumalapally.jpg

Mathew said...

Mister Jeevan... mandatharam vilambumbol ithu oru public forum annennnu koodi orma vennam.. Ariyan paadillatha kaaryangale kurichu comment paranju enthina swantham vivaramillayma pradarshippikunnathu ? Veruthe enthina naattukaarude munpil oopaavvunnathu.. Alpam vivaramokke vekkatte .. enittu namukku debatikkaam...

Daivam Mister Jeevanu alpam charihrabodham tharatte ennu muttipaayi praarthikunnu..

jamon said...

Dear Rinu,
We are living in INDIA,
We don’t want anybody’s permission to pray in parumala Kabar & Our church

jaimon

justin said...

Dear Rinu,

Jsoc Parumalayil Palli paniyunnathinu ningal ennathina vishamikkunne...?Avide ennna prashnamaa undakaan pokunne?

You are now proud tht ther are issues in Parumalapalli...Do u know y ? its just because v JSOC are just minority there ..V understand that ,,and its not our policy to file cases against church and let it shut down for ever..so we are building our own church in our land...And its the Church;s Moral responsibility to Support there with The Original Faith,,,,So the church decided to build a church there...There is nothing wrong with tht..

Rinu oonu aalochichu nokkku...Ennengilum JSOC parumala palliku vendi claim cheythittundo...Njangalkariyaam avide njangal verum minority aanennu....thts Y...Enthukondu IOCku ithe mathruka Kothamagalathum,Manarkadum cheythukooda....Instead of filing case against it....

Ningal Manjinikarayil palli vachukolluu....We will not Come against it...If you want we can assist you u get A good land for u guys....
Thats Humanity..Thats christianity...

Njangal Parumala Palliyil Claim koduthirunnenkil Ippol aa Palli Pooti kidannnene...and we dont want tht to Happen..

Check the link..wat u guz gained from this....http://malankarasyriacvoice.com/Albums/SeenaikunnuStMarysJSOOldChurchThumpamon/index.html

Reni said...

Dear Rinu Vettiyar & other friends

Hope you all have read my post on August 19.
I am just back from Parumala Chruch. Myself and my family were there from 6.45 am till. 2.45 pm on Tuesday, almost a full day praying, meditating, reading the bible, atteding Yaamaprardhanakal etc. What a blessiong it was! I cannot describe it with words. Sitting and praying near Thirumeni's tomb gives spritual enlightment andit renewed my heat and spirit. The land where Thirumeni walked, prayed, shed his tears and sweat.. etc are important.

When I was sitting there, I saw hundreds of people, from different background, praying at the tomb. The came to honour and seek the blessings from the great Saint lived who lived there. Nobody was there to ask money or sell them anything. Some put money, some did not. ONLY PRAYER WAS IMPORTANT THERE.

Some ungodly and jealosy people have been tryingt to dishonour Thirumeni's trest place. Having failed in their efforts, now they are upto new methods. As the Pslams says, "they have evil plans".
Is it right to build a church at any place in Parulama? It will be like dishonouring Thirumeni. I hope God will give them wisdom to know the truth. So let us pray for the people who plan, collect, and donate money fro building a DUPLICATE (REBEL) PARUMALA PALLI. There is one and only one PARUMALA PALLI. That is the ETERNAL REST PLACE OF THIRUMENI.

May be by doing they will come to realise the Great Saint and through him the vision for CHURCH FOR INDIA. They will also understand it is not necesary to be agnets of some other CHURCH who are irrespinble about building the church in thier own country.
So Rinu, be patient with these people. They or their next generations will come to realise that it was a waste calling 'Jai. Antioch"

Ravi George said...

I totally agree with Reni (post 19 August). There is no doubt that some people are making this an 'issue'. Otherwise they know well that NOBODY IS INTERSTED IN THIS NEW 'PARUMALA PALLI'!

Who will try to drink water from a nearby 'pottakinar' when there is good water in the well?

I request all th egood people to stay away from this issue because this rebel place is not going to bring any blessings to those who are behind it and those who contribute to make it

Reni said...

I think we should wind up this discussion with the concluson that Jacobite have the right to build their churches anywhere as they wish.

But the true Parumala Palli will always remain as Parumala Palli. Jacobite have tried their best not to mention the name 'Parumala'. Now this move to build 'Parumala Palli' shows their intention was just to spoil the reputation of the Paruamala Palli.

If they expect that their 'new Parumala Palli' will grow up as an alternate Parumala Palli, they live in false paradise. People can easily identify a TRUE COIN and a FALSE COIN. They may be able to fool a few people who do not know where the TOMB is? But they too will desert them.

I don't think those who are spearheading, planning, or contributing to this REBEL PARUAMALA CHURCH will be blessed in any way! Be casutious that you do be cursed!

eldo said...

Mr.justin.sslc bookil enthanu religion.nigalil ethra peru ningaludea society ude peru paraunnudu,aarkokkeyea ariyam eppozhathea society ude peru,ningale enthea nigaludea society udea pearil ariapedathea nangaludea sbhaudea peru use cheyyunnu.uif u r realy a member of suriani chriatani sabha.please correct u syriac voice and others to use u r society name in future.pinnea suriyani ningalil ethra perkku ariyam.shubkkano chothikkunna achan kai malthikanichappo kandirunna payyanum kai malarthi kanichu.payyanodu karyam chothichappo payyan parayanu.achan paranju entea kayil onnum ellannu.appo nanum paranju entea kailum onnum ellannu. ethalea suriyani ariyatha suriyani christanikal.kashtom.pinnea justin nan chothichathinu reply thannillatto.

Jeevan said...

Mister Mathew.

Daivam thangllkku othiri charitra bodam thannathile santhoshikinnu. Athanallalo 100 kollam munpu Vattasheril thirumeni arude kude nadannu, evide nadannu, etra rupa kaikaryam cheythu ennokke thangalkku sherikku ariyavunnathu.

Enthoroo Charitra bodham ….. kuppunnu chetta kaikalle kuppunnu...njangalle anugrahichallum... :-)

Ravi George said...

Just now I visited the site www.parumalapally.org

The name Parumala Pally is well-known among all the faitfull irrespective of Church affilation.
The branding of the new Jacobite Church at Parumal as 'parumalapally' is against all the accepted standards and norms.
This shows teh intention of the Jacobites is EVIL. They have used all indecent methods to win. For example: They fight court cases swerring in court that they are adminstering churches according to the 1934 constitution and then misleading the followers saying teh 1934 constitution is not acceptable to them
They have formed a rebel Catholicose, now a rebel PARUMALA PALLY.

My Dear Orthodox brethren

Is there any way out? How can we deal with them when they use the well-known name of Parumala pally? I sther any way that we can secure the name of parumala pally as our Church so that we can stop others misusing it and spoil the name of Thriumeni?

Ravi George said...

Did you check their slogan?

The First Church to be Consecreted in the name of Saint in Parumala.


This is how these people manipulate things. Not a surprise that a the call by HB Thomas that everyone should attend the Alwaye meeting (8 august) was rejected by his own followers.

Hardly 2500 people including Church leaders, priests came. That was the biggest blow to HB thomas in the recent months.

Rinu Vettiyar said...

Dear Brother

Parumalayile sambavathe patti Njan enthenkilum paranjittundenkil athil njan urachu nilkkunnu, eni thala vetti mattumennu paranjalum ee nilapadil ninnum marukayilla

palarudeyum comments kandu palarudeyum upadheshavum vayichu thanks

Njan paranja karyangal Parumalayil Orikkalum nadakkillennu parayan sadhikkukayilla, karanam palli paniyunnathu Puthenkurishukar aanu

Parumalayil palli paninju veruthe nanam kedananu sreshttanum koottarum sramikkunnathu, aaayikkotte

Reni said...

All friends in the Jacobite & Orthodox camps who consider Parumala Thirumeni as a Saint,

Let us try not to make Parumala a place for working out evil plans. Let us strive to make Parumala a centre of peace and prayer.

I think builing another 'Parumal Pally' will lead to new quarrels and issues. I am afraid that many wil be more cursed people if they get involve in this kind of quarrels. In fact there are many families who have become cursed for making quarrels among the belivers and churches.

Parumala being a holy place, I request all those who read this to keep away from building or helping a duplicate 'parumalapally'. This will only bring curse upon those who are behind it.

Even if they go ahead with the plans, I request others to look up to Lord and pray only. I hope those who are leading this project would understand the importance of Parumala and drop the project.

Ravi George said...

Ok, I understand, but how to convince people who are bent upon making quarrels even in holy places? This is not a small thing.

We should adopt only peaceful means. Even after tasting many failures in the recent times, HB Thomas's spirit is working with vengeance. He never gained anything in the last few years, the Alwaye meeting being the last. From news reports, I understand Alwaye meet flopped miserably. Considering that HB Thomas wanted everyone to come and make it the 'biggest ever' meet, it came out to be the biggest ever FLOP. I thnk people JUST IGNORED HB Thomas Thirumeni. What I understand from public is that people (even his own followers) suspect HB's role in the Malankara Varghese case.

Ravi George said...

'Duplicate Parumala Pally' is going to be the Waterloo of HB Thomas bava and team.

Just like Pharao and his forces died in the sea, the plans to build a parumala paly will meet the same fate. I do not want o comment on the fate pf HB Thomas and his team.

God did not want Israelites to fight for winning. God wanted them to trust and walk in the way of wisdom. The rest is assured.
SO LET US THINK ONLY PEACE

justin said...

Dear Ravi,

Do you know anything about HB thomas 1st....AAaaa Sreshta pithavinte jeevithathe kurichu vallathum ariyaaamo...Njaan onnu chodikkatte..Ningal enthu thelivu vachitta Bava ye Malankara Varghese caseumaayi Link cheyyynne...Chummma aarenkilum parunnathu ketttu Thulllaruth.....He is One of the Best Bishop in Malankara..We Jacobites are Proud of Him....

Njangal parumalayil Palli Paniyunnathinu ningalkenthina ithra vishamam...Njangal ningalude palllikuvendi Case koduthale avide prasnam undavukayulloo...Ithu Njangal vere pallli paniyunnnu ..athinum sammmadikkillle...Atho Athinum Stay file cheyyumo????


Parumala Pallliyude Sideil thannne Pentacost Church unnd..Athu Vannnappol aaarkum Oru Prasnavum Illlarunnu...Do Know how many members Joined from Ioc ...AAdyam avare thirichu Orthodoxy yile konduvaaa...ennnittu vaaaa...alllathe chummma...Vayil thonnnnunnathu vilichu parayuka allla vendathu....

Njangalude viswadathil oralenkilum undekil njangal avare samrakshikum avarku palliyum vachu kodukkum...alllathe aaa oralku vendi palllikethire case koduthi pallli pootikkunna edapadu JSOC ku illla.....
ee Nilapadu ningalude So callled sabha eduthirunnekil ningal ennne nannnavumayirunnnu...

Pinnne...njangade oru thirumeniydeyum Color Photo crime Magazinil vannnitttillla....Pathanamthitttayil bookshopil ninnum bulk aayi crime magazine vaangi kathikkunnathu njaan kandittulllatha....

Andrew John said...

Dear Mr.Mathew,my comment was the response to Mr.Oommen.He said that Vattasseril Thirumeni disobeyed Abdulla Patriarch and something happened to Vattasseril family.In fact,Vattasseril family members are in good position.At the same, what happened to Abdulla Patriarch?.Please read Z.M Paret's "Malankara Nazranikal".I am sorry!I forgot,you are the follower of a 5Th grader.Vattasseril Thirumeni didn't travelled with Abdulla patriarch.He collected all money by himself.Everybody knows all these things.You are trying to make darkness by closing your eyes.I am sure one thing.Just like your forefathers called "Vrudhan Punnoose"and later honored H.H Geevarhese 11,you will call Vattasserril Thirumeni a saint.
Mr.Jamon, Yes.We are in India not in Syria or any other Arab countries.You must obey the rules and regulations of this county.You must obey the court orders.Please tell these things to your leaders.Your Syrian laws are not applicable to India.
Mr.Justin,thank you for not filing petitions against Parumala Pally.We filed petitions against your leaders because they are unauthorized people.Who elect them as bishops?.Do you know how cheruvally and Perumpally become bishops?Malankara Association never elected them.You have nothing to do with Parumala Pally.Arikupurathu Mathan donated that place.We didn't receive anything from Antioch or Syria.You are not minority there.Your are a big zero there.Not a single PC member lives in or around parumala.You have to bring people from other places.Your humanity and Christianity are great.Varkey Varghese Nedumpuram,Onankunju Kadamattam,Uthuppu Kuriakose and Malankara Varghese perumbavoor are the classic example of your humanity and Christianity.Your aren't responsible for all these murders because your "original faith "started in 2002.

eldo said...

justin said...Parumala Pallliyude Sideil thannne Pentacost Church unnd..Athu Vannnappol aaarkum Oru Prasnavum Illlarunnu...Do Know how many members Joined from Ioc ...AAdyam avare thirichu Orthodoxy yile konduvaaa...ennnittu vaaaa...alllathe chummma...Vayil thonnnnunnathu vilichu parayuka allla vendathu....
mone justin.thomas pradhamantea sisters,almost all brothers ponthucostila monu ariyillea aadhyam avarea konduva.kannilea kolu eduthittu mattullavantea kannilea karadu edukku justin.oru christanity nanam illea

Biju said...

The people of the region are not at all confused about their Church of faith. Manjinikara Dayara attracts 1000 people in a month where as Parumala Church has thousands of families every day. Biju/Delhi.

Rinu Vettiyar said...

Dear Justine

Malankara Varghese Casil Puthenkurishile Sreshttanmar ulpettitillenkil enthinanu CBI case attimarikkan shramikkunnathu, illennu thankalkku orikkalum parayan sadhyamalla Courtinte idapedal moolamanu Case evide vareyenkilum ethiyathu allenkil Malankara Varghese Case Verum Qutationkarude thalayil kettivechu avasanippichenam. Malankara Varghese Casil Sreshhtta Bava Kuttakkaran allenkil pinne aaranu athinu nethrutham nalkiyathu

Maricha Binuvinte Peril pirichedutha thuka avarude kudumbathinu nalkathe aa panam Qutationkarkku kodutha charithravum, ennu Binuvinte peril Muthala kannerozhukkunna chithravum Malayali manassil vyakthamanu.

neethikku nirakkatha karyangal mathramanu Puthenkurishukar parayunnathum chaiyunnathum,

Parumalayil ningal kattan pokunnathu verum komalitharamanu? Malankara Orthodox Sabhaye vellu vilikkan vendiyanu? oru karyam marakkallu Epolatheyum pole alla ithu malankara sabhayude nenjathu chavuttiyanu Kalikkunnathu ee kaliyil ningal orupadu sookshikkanam. Daivam polum porukkukayilla ee kuruttu bhudhiye

Malankara Orthodox Sabhayude theerthadana kenrangalil ellam Palli paninju Mattoru badhal aayi Maran aanu sramikkunnathennu ellavarkkum ariyam

Penthicosthil poyavcarude karyam paranjallo athinu Eldho marupadiyum thannu

Malankara sabhaye Valarthiyum Pilarthiyum ellavarum sabhakal paniyunnu,

Ravi George said...

Dear Justin


I have only sympathies for you.
If I start writing about HB Thomas I will need at least 200 pages to write.

Let me tell youvery very briefly.

1. Is HB an honest person? He wiill say one thing somewhere and then say or do just the opposite somewherelese.

For example: In Court he would sign that he obeys the 1934 constitution, outside he will break its spirit. He will play any emotional drama to move people. (But now most people know him well!)

2. Has he attempted suicide while he was the chaplain of Kolencherry hospital? Enquire about what led to the incident.

3. Did he sent a registered letter, a few years back, banning the entry of his own shreshta Catholicose Poulse Bava into the churches of Angamali diocese?


I HAVE HUNDREDS OF THINGS TO ADD. But stop here.

Now about the murder of Malankara Varghese

There were so many discussons in this site about it. But let me briefly tell you why the Orthodox Church suspect him.

1. CBI chargesheet has clearly mentioned the role of Fr Varghese Thekkekkara who was then secretary to Angamalay diocese, under HB Thomas. The chargesheet says Fr Thekkekkara gave the money collected for helping the family of a person to Gundas. The money was collected as per the Kalpana of Thomas Bava. Is it possible tfor Fr Thekkekara to hand over this large amount to Gundas without the prior knowledge of his HB Thomas under which Fr was only a secretary?

2. The adminstrative style of HB Thomas is well-known. Not a leaf would turn without his knowledge. He is an absolute autocrat and decisions are taken by him only. (The fact is Jacobite church lacks transparency in its admistration. It is evident even in the selection of bishops, handling money etc)

3. After the murder, Gundas stayed in some prominent churches of the Jacobites including Manjnaikkara. You know how Gundas will stay? They will need liquor, pennu, kaala, panni iracchi.. ellam.... They cannot stay in any church without the knowledge of the highest church authorities. Fr Thekkekkara cannot handle it himself. He is just a priest and a secretary of the diocese. Obviously Father Thekkekkara has no perosnal interest in murdering Malankara Varghese. He has just obeyed orders of his masters.

Do you know what jacobite media said about Malankara varghese? "Malankara varghese died of heart attack." How can you be a member of a church which has no basic moral values?

4. There are evidences that some people were flown to Delhi to influence top political masters.


Though I have more to say about Thomas Thirmeni's life I stop here. Heavens will judge him. I will not say this about any other bishop. HB is such a crooked person.

Malankara varghese' case will be heard by the Hon'be High Court of Kerala. We can only pray that Malnkara varghese's wife get justice. God will not spare anyone who has shed blood.

Whatever be the observation of the Court, HB Thomas has suffered a big blow since then. He wanted a biggest ever gathering of Jacobite in Alwaye on 8th Augsut 2010 (READ HIS KALPANA) . What happend to that? It turned out to be the flopest ever. His own people lost confidence in him. More will follow. I think the construction of DUPLICATE PARUMALA PALLY will be his waterloo.

Ravi George said...

Rinu & others

Thomas Bava's best time was when HH Patriarch came a couple of years ago. It is said that both of them made huge amounts of money collected from churches during the visit of the Patriarch. Both got the best media coverage. They had a meeting attended by a good number of people in Ernakulam. Top politcal masters were also there. Jacobite leaders became so close to the CPM top leaders. There was a talk in town that the CPM cadres were there at the meeting. It is quite natural that many will come to hear Pinarayi and top CPM leaders speak. Now after the big flop meetiing in Alaway on August 8th 2010, it became more evident that the majority people who attended the successful EKM meeting were CPM members. In the Ernakulam meeting, HH Patriach gave permssion to all the Jacobitea to work for CPM. Those days HB Thomas was at the pinnacle of success.

Soon there was sudden change. HH Didimos bava called for a meeting of Orthodox faithful. It was a short notice. Only 15 days were left.. Many said "NO" because of threats that there will be problems.. HH Dididmos Bava only prayed. It was a huge success. Govt realised the mood in Malankara. THAT WAS THE BEGINNING OF THE FALL OF HB THOMAS. Since then, HB has never tasted success. His image has fallen to the deepest pit due to Malnkara varghese case.. Seeing the success of the Kottyam rally, HB Thomas called for a 'biggest ever gathering' of his followers on Alwaye 8th Augsut. And we all know what happened.

Thomas bava is playing again. He is switching his loyalty to Congress because Congress will come to power in the next elections. BUT HE WILL NEVER TRUST IN GOD.

As Rinu said, with the construiction of the REBEL PARUMALA PALLY HB will go further down.

I can pry that GOD give HB Thomas wisdom.

Mathew said...

Dear Mr.Andrews.. Itha paranjathu alpam charithram okke padichittu vennam kaaryangal ezhuthan enu... Vattsseril thirumeni Abdellah Mor Gregorios Metrachande koode nadannathu charithrakaaranmaarkoke ariyam...Ini njaan parayunnathu vishwasamilenkil ningade swantham Cheeranachenodu chodichal mathi...Abdellah Pathriarchese bavayku onnum pattiyilla... Pullikaaran marikkuvolam pathriarchese aayi thanne vaannu... Njangalde sabhayude pradheshika thalavan 5th grade alla.. 4 - aam class kaarana.. paditham nirthi postman ( anjalotakaaranaayittum ) joli cheythittund... angane oraal ee nilayil uyarannamenkil athinte purakil oru daiveeka pravarthanam thanneyund...athomnum ningale bodhipikenda kaaryamilla... Thanneyalla.. njangalkku thomas I bava alla sabha.. adheham sabhayude oru bhagam maathram...

Pinne... jeevanullidatholam kaalam njangal oru kaalathum vattasseri metrachane parishuddan ennu vilikkulla...

Saaar kure court orderinde kaaryam p[aranju... ethu court order aannu njangal anusarikkendathu enu koodi paranju tharamo ?

Njangade pithakanmaaru avarde cash upayogichu panniyicha pallikalil kottayam catholikka aanno bharannam nadathendathu ? Ithum paranju ningal supreme court vare poyittu Kodathi entha paranje ? Naanamille saare ingane public forum il pacha kallam parayan ?

Pinne malankara association njangade metrachanmaare thiranjedukkathathine kurichu veembilakiyallo ...

Ningade Kollam Korilose ( later Mathews II ) and parettu Ivanios ine ethu malankara association aannu thiranjeduthathu ennu koodi onnu paranju tharaavo ?

Areekupurathu mathen malpaan sthalam adharam ezhuthichappolathil Antioch Patriarch ennoru mention ondo ennu sar onnu nokkannam .. itha padichittenkilum mandatharangal parayathirikkannam ennu apekshikunnathu..

Parumalayil njangalkulla aalukalde ennam njangalkkariyam..Pinne Malankara varghede enna bhooloka abhaasane kurichu kanner ozhukkunnundallo..Pullikaarande case il avasaanam CBI paranjathau enthannenno - " We are not here to make investigations according to the whims and wishes of someone ".. Mathiyayille maashe ningakku ?

Noby said...

Hello IOC members,
I am a member of St Mary's JSO Cathedral Kuruppampady,Jacobite members are more than 2500,IOC members are less than 20.So IOC people built a new church near to Kuruppampady town.We didn't object it because we thought that if they have their own church we will be free from them.But you know what they did,they constructed a new church at the same time they filed a case against the mother church. The same method is followed in churches like Kothamangalam ,Vengoor,Angamaly etc.Here we didn't file any case agaist any of mother churches ,but we are only constructing a new church.So what you want.You want to bring everybody under 1934 constitution ,which we spat out from our church.Now you can decide who is acting with evil spirit.
Then you are telling gozzips against our bishops and Shreshta Bava.Talk with manners not just like jobless females wandering with hallucinatory thinking ,Don't behave like faminine charecter . one thing you have to understand ,patience of our Bava is the thing that make you stronger day by day ,he will pray for you aswell

Reni said...

Dear Noby

Thanks for your comments.

Great to hear that we got 20 members in St Mary's Cathedral Kuruppampady. So all the rest (you claimed 2500 Jacobite members) who have joined another Sabha can leave the cathedral.

It is also good that Orthodox Church built another church near Kuruppampady town. But that doesn't mean that the real members of St Mary's Cathedral Kuruppampady have chosen to leave the cathedral. They have their right establised under the 1934 constitutio of the Sabha.

NOW IF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT MAJORITY AND MINORITY in the Cathedral, Listen again

Let me tell you about a case which was heard by the Bombay High Court a few decades back.

In a village, in the state of Maharashtra, a Hindu temple was constructed by using the funds raised by the local people. The temple, a common property of the villagers, was administered by a committee selected from the villagers and it continued to be so for many years.

It so happened that there was a massive conversion the village and almost all of the villagers became Buddhists. So the villagers met and declared the temple as a BUDHA VIHAR. There were only a few Hindus left in the village (around 5 percent).

The Hindus who remained in their faith met and said their worshiping place was constructed as a temple and it could not be converted into a Buddhist temple for whatever reasons because there are still Hindus in the village. But those who had converted from Hinduism argued that they spent money and constructed it. They said, “Now we have changed our faith. We, the majority have unanimously (95%) decide to make it a Buddhist temple.”

Finally, the case was heard by Bombay High Court. The Court ruled in the minuscule minority's favour. The court said "The objective for constructing and maintaining the temple remains so long as a single person remains in the faith. Those who have changed the faith also have left the faith and therefore they have no say in the affairs of the Hindu temple.

Now, What have to you say about your MAJORTY theory, Mr Noby?


We don't want to bring everybody under 1934 constitution. But those who have left the 1934 constitution have also left the church. That is why HB Thomas signed it in court. That is why still your churches decalre in court that you are adminstering according to 1934 constitution. You have not spat it, you have only swallowed it. Teh problem i sthat it is stuck in your throat. That happens only to people who have forgotten their true identity and is licking the shoes of ARABS.

Noby, what is gozziping? What is truth? People know the facts.

Well, your Thomas bava proved his strength in your own fort Alwaye this month. (8th August). He is now mre worried about Jacobites than Orthodox. Need to say anynmore?

Also, dear Noby, we know how well Thomas Thirumeni prays.

Ravi George said...

Mathew

CBIis just an investiagation agecy who are doing the investigation as ordered by the High Court. Why Thomas Bava is panicking and runnomg for cover?
Let teh case come to court. There all the CBI evidences will be examined. Then let us hear whether Fr Thekkekkara was doing on his own or for his master.

For those who have tried to kill himslef, kiling another perosn is also easy job.

If you have faith in what CBI has said, are you not ashamed that your priest gave money to Gundas to murder? CBI said Gundas stayedin some of yor most holy places? There is no other church in the world like yours. Shameless!

Mathew said...

5. There are evidences that there has been huge pressure on the administration to somehow to implicate jacobite church leadership to score a point.. There is evidence how the widow of thombra varghese is being used by your devalokam mafia coccus.

Though I have more to say about your Bishop's life I stop here. Heavens will judge them. I will not say this about any other bishop.your bishops are such crooked people.

Thombra varghese' case will be heard by the Hon'be High Court of Kerala. We can only pray that Thombra varghese's wife get justice. God will not spare anyone who has shed blood.

Other things of yours " let us wait and watch "

eldo said...

mathew said....
Thanneyalla.. njangalkku thomas I bava alla sabha.. adheham sabhayude oru bhagam maathram...monea mathewsea nee sabha committee poyeettundo.avidea no voice to speak anybody.pallichilavil poyeettu varam.thomas prahamantea eekathipathyam.mone yogathinu poyittullavarodu choyhikku. pinnea thomas i alla sabha ennu mone kothamangalatho,thekkekkara achnodo,eppo ezhuthiyapole yaco upayakkarodo parayanda montea podipolum kanilla. pinnea aluvayil alukal kuranjathu.kalla kanneru kanichu nadu roadil kidannu pavam achan markkum almenimarkum police thallu kondappo ningade thomas thirumeni innovayil kothamangalathinu poyee.adi kittiya achanmaru police campil quarbana chellichappo thomas thirumeni paranjathariamo vakkanmarea vitto,thekkanmaru orthodoxukaranna.ethu camil kidannu muttolam vellathil quarbana chellia achan paranjatha.ayalude kalla kannerum roadil kidappum kodu,cpm poster adichum keralam muzhuvan.eni oru achanum varilla mathews police adikollan.avarokkea thomas thirumeninea manasilakki.enthu nettam undai roadil kidannu gov.car kathichappo,kalltharam kanichuttu mungiyillea,enthea munnilundayirunnillalo oru methrachanum.pinnea nigade bava eppozum payayila kidakkunnathu ennu paranjittu.GCC yil foreign countries varumbozhum 5 staril thazhea thamasikkullea.pinnea angeru karimeenum fruits mthramea kazhikkum ethano lalitham

Ravi George said...

It is absolute waste of time talking to a person like Mathew who talks rubbish. I think a few of the Jacobites have been trained this way. But the majority have now deserted HB Thomas.

When I pointed about the failed Jacobiet meet on 8th Aug in Alwaye, one senior memeber of the jacobite said "Who is interested in these things now." He also told me that the faithful are more informed now a day and it is difficult to manage them. My friend expressed his disappointment, "The Church lacks transparency. Decision are taken by a 'ONE MAN SYNOD'.

One of the stategy of Jacobite is to divert the discussion from the topic. We are discussing about a REBEL PARUMALA PALLY coming up in Parumala. Their strategy to say some other on-sense so as to distract us from the topic.

I hope the ADMISTRATOR of the BLOG will delete all the comments that are not related to the topic.

After failing to spoil the reputation of the Parumala pally, Jacobite leadership gang has developed a MYSTERIOUS SUDDEN LOVE FOR PARUMALA.

What's the reason?

Reni said...

Dear FRIENDS

PLEASE STICK ON TO THE TOPIC OF DISCUSSION. Thanks
RENI

eldo said...

justinum mathewsum onam avathi ano.atho pallipaniyan poyo chruvallykarude trustinu muthal kootan .upaya sabhaude puthucruz school arudea perila,kakkanad schol etc....

Andrew John said...

Dear Mr. Mathew, As per your advise, I started to study church history.But it is not easy to study 2000 year's history.You can learn your church history within couple of hours.(2002 to 2010)One thing I am sure,even if you tell a lie thousand times, it isn't going to be a truth.Everybody knows about Vattasseril Thirumeni and Abdulla patriarch.Patriarch Peter 111 was the first one who said Gregoriose (Abdulla)was greedy.He is the one who created all problems in Malankara.When he visited Malankara,we give him a warm reception.That was our tradition.But he was trying to divide our people and collect money.Money collection was his main motto.He created problems in many churches.For more information please read Z.M Paret's "malankara nazranikal".Even Dr.Babu Paul once wrote" All Patriarchs are not like Abdulla".
You forgot something about your local leader.He was the chief cook of Piramadam dayara.He tried to kill himself and admitted in Kolencherry hospital." yadha raja thadha praja" Shame on you Mr. Mathew.
Main court orders are royal court case,(Patriarch has no authority over Malankara)Vattippana case(real owner of church property)1958 court order(upheld 1934 constitution and peace;gave up 12 lakhs of court expenses for our brothers including you))1995 and 2002 court orders.Your local leader agreed to obey 1934 constitution in the court and later changed his mind.Do you know howmuch money you deposited for Justice Malimath as 2002 associatin observer?.You always claim mejority then why you didn't prove that in the association.
I didn't know that Arikupurathu Mathan was a malpan.Thank you for that valuable information.You may have more informations like this.
We know that some so called leaders went to Delhi to put prussure on Malankara Varghese case.You can hide the truth only for a short period.Eveything will come out.You, slaves of Syrians, try to understand facts.We live in a democratic county.We don't have to be a slave of other's.Syrians including your patriarch do not know anything about democracy and freedom.They came to malankara as our guests.Later with the help of our own people, they established their rule here.Just like British rule started in Inida while local rulers were fighting each other.
My God almighty open your inner eyes to see the truths.

Ravi George said...

Jacobite leaders calculate that they can divet at least a few percentage of belivers who are going to Parumala

Geogy Abraham said...

Mr. Ommen & Mr. Justin are very much correct. We must uphold our faith.

I don’t understand why the IOC people are worried about Jacobite people building their church in Parumala. Why these people pretend that they need all “CROSS” which are under the sun should come under the governance of Devalokam.

It was the bloody unity which happened in 1958 which ruined the Jacobite church soo much.

See I am not saying the all deeds of current catholicose of Patriarch faction (H.B. Thomas I) is totally correct. But he is forced to do some steps due to the acts of opponents i.e. IOC devalokam. To be honest he is the best person in the current scenario. I pray that he LIVE LONG so that Jacobite churches get spread all over. Currently many jacobite members are going to IOC churches as they do not have any other options (especially in south Kerala & outside kerala & abroad) ; under H.B. Thomas1 bava and his subordinated thirumeni’s are taking steps to start congregation later to build a church. PRAISE THE LORD for this actions.

GA

Geogy Abraham said...

Mr. Andrew John stated “We live in a democratic county”. Therefore, please IOC members do follow it practically in all the closed down churches. It is the elected body by parishers of the church who govern the church not the bishops & priests. Bishops & priests have only authority to do the spiritual activities, not in the administration of church & its properties.
For all knowledge Patriarch of Antioch is not taking any money from Patriarch churches in India. Only if the palli pothuyogham decides it is given, else it is spend here itself for good deeds or other church developments. Churches are not individual property; it is owned by the parishners and administered by elected members’ positions called trustee, secretary & committee members, not by Indian bishops or foreign bishops.

The 1934 church constitution which IOC people scream is null and void in the democratic country like INDIA. It cannot be applied to all churches in INDIA. A law cannot be forced and can be applied to all churches of MALANKARA. If supreme court gave verdict to the above constitution, then why not it is not applied ?

Jomon said...

MY Dear Friends, What is the problem in being a cook in Piramadam dayaro being elevated to the position of the Catholicose? Dont you know that King David himself was a shephered? Dont you know St. Peter was a fisherman? Dont you know St. Matthew was a taxcollecter? Have you not heared that Jesus told that taxcollecters and prostitutes will be there in his kingdom? So please dont ever try character assassination. It is God's call and nobody can refute it. Please refrain from making judgements because you will be judged according to your own standards of judgement.
We the Syrian Orthodox Christians feel that H B is the gift of God to lead us. Why do you bother about our Growth. We can make churches anywhere in India since our constitution allowes us to propogate our faith.

Mathew said...

Ravikutta, enna ini njaan ningalkku kelkkan sughamullathu paranju tharam .. anamandatharam aanenkil polum at least ningalkku "rubbish" ennu thonnullallo..Kelkkan sughamilathathu rubbish enokke paranju thallikalayunnathu oru maathiri complex ullathukonda..

Yakobaya sabhayile transparency kuravine patti paranju thanna thozhan ningade sabhayile 'transparency' kandu kannu manjalichirikkuvaayirikum alle.. enthina chetta kannil oru valiya kolu kayatti vechittu sahodarande kannile ' micro particles ' anweshichu nadakkunnathu.

Ivide parumala paliye kurichulla discussion vazhi thettichu kaadu kayattiyathu araannennu blog inde thudakkam muthal vaayichal pudikittum. Rastrabhashayil oru old saying onde -' ulta chor kothwal ko daante' ennu. Njangal thudare chodikkunna oru chodyamund.... veendum chodikkunnu.. " Njangal njangade cash upayogichu, njangalkkuvendi, njangade prayathnam kondu palli vekkunnithail ningalenthina njeripiri kollunathu ? ".

Ini kaadu kayaralle.. please

Mathew said...

Ee Andrews achayan oru vivaravum illa.... Charithram padikkan paranjappol poyi parettinu padikkunnu... metran kakshikarallathe arenkilum Paretu athupole chithramezhuthu chettan ivareyokke charithrakaaranmaarayittu kaannunudo ennu koodi anweshikkannam...Parettu achayan swantham kakshiyude abadhangalum koprandangalum nyayeekarikkan chamachundakkiyathalle pala volume kalilulla abadhangalum mandatharangalum... Oru kaaryam sammathikunnu... even if you say one lie thousand times it wont become truth.. pakshe it will seem to be truth and with continuous usage will be accpeted as the truth... athaannu parettinde sabha charithram....

Ithokke ariyavunna achayananno parettinu padikkan poyathu.

Abdella Bava ivide vannappozhalla prashnam thudangiyathu... athinu valare munp, vattseril metrachan koottu trustikale sabha bharanathil participate cheyyanjappozhannu prashnam thudangiyathu.. athu choondi kannichappol mind cheyyanjathu prashnam vashalakkki... thudar sambhavangal ividunnu continue ayi enneyullu... prashnam nammal ividuthu kaaru thaneya.

Njangade sabhayude pradeshika thalavane kurichu kure kaaryangal parayunnundallo.. Ningde metrachanmaare kurichu onnu kannu thurannu padichu nokkannam.. visa thattippukaarum purathu kollan parayatha swabhava dooshyamullavar ( Ningade thanne oru senior synod member paranja kaaryama )okkeyannalo avide. Oru valiya kola aa kannil kidappundallo achaya ? atheduthittupore sahodarande kannu parishodikkunnathu ?

Ee ennodu paranja shame kurachu angottum thannirikkunnu.

Ee ella court orders paranjirukkunnathu sabhayude parama meladhyakshan Patriarch annenna .. athentha achayan kannathathu ? appol kannil kidakkunna kolu kaazhcha nastapeduthi thudangi alle ? Ningalkku anukoolamayittullathu maatrame kaannu..1934 prakaram edavaka pallikalellam bharikapedannam ennu oru kodathiyum paranjittilla.

Mathew said...

Malimutt inde association bahishkarikan vyakthamaya kaarannangaliundaayirunnu. Voters list correct aayittu undaakatheyanno association koodunnathu ? Ende idavaka palliyil prashnamund.. avide moonnu group aayirunnu.. Jacobite, metran kakshi, athanasios kakshi ( Mvpzha ).. avasanam paranja randu kakshiyilum kootti kayyil ennavunna kudumbangalannu aviduthe metran kakshikal. Enittu aviduunu metran kakshi and athanasios group.. randu group association aale ayachu.. randu groupum pankeduthu.. vote um cheythu... oru palliyil ninnum double representation.. oru example maatram.. athreyokkeyullu parumala asociation de shrestatha.

Pinne avasanam avesham konde kure suresh gopi dialogues thatti vittittundallo .. slaves enokke paranju akshepikkalle saare... aa vaakinde artham koodi ini andrews achayande dictionariyil maati ezhuthiyo ?

My God almighty open your inner eyes to see the truths. enikkum athe parayanullu.

Ini njan eppozhum chodikkunna chodyam aavarthikkunu .. " Njangal njangade cash upayogichu, njangalkku vendi palli vekkunnathil ningalkkenthina oru skin problem ? "

Ravi George said...

I think we should discuss more about the futue of Indian Christianity.

Thank God, There is a new one which has begun today. Please read my posts, Dear Mathew thanks

Ravi George said...

Mathew You can know why the future will not hold for Patriach in india

I sympathise with you people for calling Antioch 365*24 hours when they are disappearing from the face of the earth

Ravi George said...

One should know the differenc between lack of system and a system failure.

Jacobites do not want a system for building transparency whereas in the Orthodox church there could be a few people who do not want the system to function properly.

The first one is authoritative and can never be corrected as long as the dictator continues. This is what happens in the Jacobite church.

In the Orthodox church, better transparency can be achieved by improving the exisitng system.

For example: selection of bishops

Jacobite have a ONE MAN SYNOD. HB will chop off any one who raises the slightest voice.

Jacobites are cheering now because they see that the show is run. They'll know the pain only later. If you study this phenomenon, you can observe this trend in any dictatorship. I FEEL EXTREMELY SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE

Ravi George said...

Attn Georgy Abraham

Your comment that 1958 unity ruied Jacobite chuch is not correct. But I competely agree with your observation that Jacobite church is ruined.

It is not 1958 unity which has ruined Jacobite church, but your continued slavery and also dictatorship of a person. He was a trouble maker earlier too. He used to threaten his own Bava (HB Paulose II). remember the legal notice he sen to to his own catholica Bava.

On August 8 at Alwaye HB's strength was exposed. HB' call for a biggest meet was ignored by faithful!

You should know how things are blown up just to make you people happy. Every news in th jacobite church is blown out of proportion.


Duplicate Parumala pally etc are all a show off to keep you people cheering!

HB has selected many new bishops and they are almost sitting idle. Only way they get some work is when some meeting is on. Then more than 10 or 15 or 20 will stand hehind HB Thomas, all in blood red uniform.

They had once complained to HB that they find it difficult to live after giving out everything they had to HBthomas.
HB wil still appoint more bishops and make them more insecure.

It is a funny land!

Ravi George said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ravi George said...

ALL ARE WELCOME TO the NEW BLOG begun on SEPTEMBER 1

THE FUTURE OF INDIAN CHRISTIANITY

Jomon said...

Dear Ravi, What I am against is character assassination. You are trying to defame HB Baselios Thomas I. I DONT KNOW THE GENUINENESS OF THE ONE INCIDENT YOU ARE REFERRING. EVEN IF IT IS TRUE, I DONT MIND BECAUSE GOD HAS COME TO CALL THE SINNNERS TO HIS FLOCK AND TO BLESS THEM AND TO EMPOWER THEM.
REMEMBER CANON PROHIBITS THE PRIESTS TO LEND MONEY FOR INTEREST? CAN YOU CALL HH MORAN MOR BASELIOS MARTHOMA MATTHEWS SECOND AS SINNER FOR LENDING CASH TO BLADE MAFFIA?
PLEASE RAVI, REFRAIN FROM MAKING UNNECESSARY CHARACTER ASSASSINATIONS. LET GOD JUDGE AND LET US BE LIMITED TO OUR OWN HUMANHOOD.
MAY GOD BLESS YOU.

Jeevan said...

The tensions with the Syrians didn’t start with Vattasheril or Abdulla.

It started many many years, even before both were born. There many incidents to prove so, few that come to my mind is

1. Re-ordination drama of on Syrian Metran Athanasius. He was eager to re-ordain everyone in Malankara. The founder of Marthoma Church, Abraham Malpan got re-ordained, and he got a dose from then metropolitan Cheppad thirumeni. (This was before 1850)

2. A memorial tomb for Pulikottil Dionysius I, at Kunnamkulam Puthenpally was desecrated and destroyed by the Syrian Yuyakim Mar Kurilose, out of jealosy, seeing an Indian being venerated as a saint.

3. During Mulanturuthy synod, since Pulikottil Thirumeni refused to grant temporal powers to the Patriarch, he divided the church into 7 branches and granted autonomy for all the 7 bishops to diminish the power of Pulikottil Thirumeni. ( Remember 500 Pavan was given to patriarch to come down to kerala).

Patriarchisinte Kalippu Thirathe, Pulikkottil Thirumeniye mudakki association president positional ninnu matti.

To come to a conclusion that everything started because of St.Vattasheril Thirumeni, is nothing but lack ignorance. Indians and Syrians were never on the same page right from the beginning. It is not three evidences, there are many many more…..

Also, St.Dionysius was the head of the then undivided church, why on earth should he hand over the keys of treasury room and detail every single action taken by him to a “Muthalali”.

100 Years before, a bishop had more powers, he was like a King.. Kanda muthaliyoodum, chattampiyoodum onnum kanakku parayanda avashyam Vattahseril Thirumenikillla..

Jeevan said...

@ Jomon

Vattasheril Thirumeniye patti thonnivasham ezhuthnathinnu kuzhappam ille ???????

Kolu

Enthu kolu ??

Swantham Kannille kolu ... bakki parayandallo

Geogy Abraham said...

Dear Mr. Ravi George,

It is true that H.B. Paulose II Bava was cornered by other Jacobite metropolitans. One is living & others passed away. For them GOD shall answer. H.B. Paulose Bava II was a living saint of his times. He was a TRUE SPIRITUAL LEADER. I am sure GOD shall deliver those who worked against him.

But currently, the present Jacobite Catholicose is the best person to counter the IOC devalokam. Here, if present catholicose H.B. Thomas I bava is same like his predecessor IOC devalokam would have swallowed Syrian Jacobite Church. Thanks to GOD he is living. We Syrian Jacobite pray that he LIVES LONG.

Leave the Alwaye gathering. IF the Supreme Head (Ignatius Zakka-I)comes it will be festival for whole Kerala and Whole INDIA. It was evident through his last visit.

With regards to the newly ordained bishops, Jacobite church needed more bishops for their growth. Currently Jacobite Syrian Church is in fully fledged growing rate. Now they are edge to edge with IOC devalokam.

Regards,
GA

Jomon said...

Dear Jeevan, Did I say anything to encourage character assassination of Vattasseril Thirumeni. Dear Jeevan, criticising the policies of Vattasseril Thirumeni is different from doing character assassination of Vattasseril Thirumeni. You can indeed evaluate the policies of HB Baselios Thomas I and you can pass your own judgements. What I am against is character assassination. I think this reply clarifies your doubt.

May God Bless You

Varghese said...

Aha Nalla Rasam ee thallukoodal kaanan
Varghese Thttam

Reni said...

Dear Geogy Abraham

When Hitler was ALIVE, all the Germans believed they wanted ONLY a leader like Hitler. But what happened eventually? You believe a person like HB Thomas is needed to fight. You wait and see for the events to take place soon!

HB is a Vellaplly Nateshan who swallowing his own people. Unfortunately, HB Thomas is leading you people into darkness. The growth you perceive is not GROWTH. HB had said in a VS interview from America that Antioch has GROWN so much because they have constructed a HUGE building there! That is the kind of growth he thinks.

Jacobite leaders are well known for their LOUSY behavior. That is this ‘edge to edge talk’ . If you are in majority you can easily take over the rule of the Malankara Church trough Malankara Association. In fact more and more people have left the Jacobite camp. (Thomas Thirumeni knows this well)


Now about the HH Patriarch ZACHA BAVA’s visit. It has become clear that most people assembled in Ernakulam were CPM workers to see their leader Pinarayi Vijayan presenting a COMMUNIST BIBLE to the successor of St Peter. What a shame! It was all staged by WHOM?

Poor HH BAVA THIRUMNI announced ALL JACOBITES CAN WORK IN CPM. How many obeyed it SIR?

Reni said...

@Varghese

I like Geogy Abraham, Ommen, Mathew, Jomon and many other jacobite friends who fight for a their cuase. We argue for the good of the Church. That's how ideas are exchanged. May be there will be heated exchnages but we are all ORTHODOX Faith and brothers

They have moral strength more than you. I feel sorry for you because you don't have intergrity

mohanmathew said...

@Geogy Abraham

What is this 'edge to edge' you are talking?

Any nation will show fast-paced progress during a dictator's regime, only to head for a MAJOR DISASTER. HB Thomas has been functioning like a dictator and Jacobites believe Thirumeni is excellent.

This is because of media like VS and other dailies. In fact it can be compared to a blown up balloon.

The challenge is to build a SYSTEM which functions impersonally. What is the Jacobite church's experience in this? Even HB Thomas Thirumeni started losing his credibility. See his failure to organise 'the biggest ever gathering in Alwaye'. In fact it was not an organising trouble. It was a loss of Confidence of faithful in HB Thomas Thirumeni. Now can he rebound? I see NO HOPE.
Unfortunately, more difficult days await Thirumeni.

Though HB has continuously wished that the Kochi metropolitan Gregorios Thirumeni should succeed him, I think he is unable to handle it without a division.

But see how smoothly the system works in the Orthodox church!

Also, the so called 'constitution' of the Jacobite Church which is registered according to SOCIETY Act (That is why Jacobite Church is called a SOCIETY and it is technically correct also) is big challenge.

The big & old churches like Kothamangalam and Manarcaud cannot officially leave the 1934 constitution. Another constitution cannot be formed leaving behind these major churches. So Jacobites cannot form another constitution in the near future. I am sure this will not happen during the lifetime of your Thomas Bava.

Orthodox will not agree to any out of court settlement in this issue. If the issue lags behind, it is disadvantage for Antioch side. because Antioch themsleves are in deep trouble.

The kind of evangelisation which took by storm in the South is now devouring North Kerala.

A Jacobite friend told me that educated youngsters think that the leadership is not spiritual. They are shocked at turn of event like Murders. But leadership of the Jacobite Church sees no other way except fighting out in media and calling for division. It is certain that division is NEVER GOINT TO HAPPEN even if the church function as practically two.

A new generation which does not care for Antioch is slowly coming up. It may take a few more decades, but it is going to be a reality.

WATCH THING TURN OUT BEFORE OUR OWN EYES! See how NATIONAL ORTHODOX CHURCH WILL EMERGE AS POWERFUL. It may lead even the Universal Syrian Chrches.

The writing is on the wall, Geogy.

justin said...

@mohan mathew

nice Dream...

Now wake up.....

Ravi George said...

Justin, Nothing can be achieved without dreaming.

Year after year, your Antiochian slogan has diminished. Now it has become a feeble voice. How many of educated people will this non-sense sloagn " Ammaye marannalum.."

Noby said...

Hello Reni ,Soory for delay to reply,
when we are taliking about Kuruppampadypalli you told to leave the cathedral to IOC people ,Why?Pallipothuyogam accepted the constitution 2002,That church should be ruled according to 2002 constitution .I know IOC is trying to conquer the whole church property and to put it in muthoot Finance co Opereation,We are not at all ready for that.
I don't know why you people are very much worried about the construction of New church in Parumala .We don't need a single Rupee from you .We are constructing with our own effort .So don't be jelousy.I know why you are gozipping about our HB Baseliouse Thomas I,that is a trick to add more people to your group,nothing more than that.Are you a christian group ? I wouldlike to tell you you are shame to all christian community because of your greedy mind and wandering through court and lawyer's office .Best of luck

Reni said...

But Nobi
YOur Pallipothuyogam has NO right to change to any constitution. It can only run as per the constitution.

Otherwsie why can;t Kothamanaglam palli and Manarcaud paly change its constitution to 2002? In many Jacobite churches, you signa document that you keep the 1934 constitution and then break its spirit. For examplek Piravam palli.
If everywhere you have majority why not he pallipothuyogam change the constitution?

2. For your infomation, 2002 is only a society of members. It was trick you played because you cannot form another constitution for the old chruches.

Reni said...

Again Noby

We sympathize for having to carry a burden like HB Thomas Thirumeni who has no respect for any system.
I can explain why he is so, but then I will have to go below certain standard.

You Jacobite s have leaders. ONLY ONE MASTER. ( not Jesus)

Dear ordinary Jacobites,

You are no chevaliers, no commanders..Bar ithoo.. Non-sense... because you have non money. You should know that even the richest and the most powerful in the Orthodox community do not carry any medals and they are like each one of you. Can you just imagine that in your so called Sabha where all the powerful have gathered and took away everything leaving behind some poor like you. Even a person like late K M Mathew did not have anything. He was equal in status. And many others. In fact none in the orthodox community has any medal. It is better for you to come out of this second rated church membership and feel as equals in Malankara Syrian Orthodox church.

There are some f****s who will utter ANTIOCHIA ANTIHIA ANTHIOCHIA al the time. But if you know what is there in Antiochia you will now not say it again. But for the leaders who carry Bar ITHO whatever non-sense It is business of keeping the majority poor as slaves

COME OUT OF SLAVERY and bondage which has no future in India.

We welcome all ordinary people. But not BAR ITHOS….
Come and have your freedom, the freedom which Jesus has given you. ISLAMITES cannot give you that!

Geogy Abraham said...

Dear Mohan & Reni,

What do we do with IOC devalokam. ? See, Jacobite Church need leaders like H.B. Thomas I to counter with IOC Devalokam. As IOC devalokam do not want to resolve issues; and as long as Jacobite Syrian Christians want to stick to their faith, the problem shall not be resolved for ever.

It was Jacobite Syrian Church mistakes which made IOC Devalokam grew to this stage. Hence, Jacobite Syrian Church is repenting. If they had taken necessary actions during the 1958 (when re-united church) and there upon producing their church constitution; the issues prevailing now would not exist.
BUT now what to do, other than to carry the cross.

Regards,
Geogy

Ravi George said...

Dear Geogy

Actully Jacobites are not carrying the cross. They are carrying daggers and matchets to MURDER.

See what happened to Malankara varghese and prior to that many innocent others.

You think these jacobite people are peacelovers?

You should also know that we will not withdraw even a single case against these UNGODLY people. Nor are we ready for any out of court settlement. This is basically because the Jaciobite church is not a Christian leadership which reflect the wishes of its faithful.

There is a gang which manages everything. Otherwise HOW IS IT POSSIBLE FOR A SUM OF MONEY COLLECTED FOR CHARITY WAS HANDED OVER TO GUNDAS TO MURDER? Is it possible forsuch a thing to happen in a church with a proper administrative set up?

One person orders and there are a few who implements it. You sugests that we should settle with these people? NO WAY!

You said jacobites need a person like HB 'Dr' Thomas Thirumeni agaisnt the orthodox?

You believe that decisions are taken in orthodox church like the way it is taken in Puthenkurishu?

There is a TIME FOR EVERYTHING. ONLY Truth wil triumph. The policy of their suppresing faithful and enslaving them has only short LIFE. (They have already stopped listeningto teh leadership)

How long will this Antioch slogna remain? You think your future generations will keep shouting 'AMMAAANE MARANNAAALUM..."

SIR I have one question finally, When Antioch vanishes, what your people will cry out?

I see no FUTURE for this jacobite church. they will disintgrate.

Anita said...

Dear Mr.Mathew,You are repeating the same question again and again.My first sentence of the first comment was "PC members have the right to build a church at Parumala".You are wasting your time and energy for a foreigner.St.Thomas is our spiritual father.St.Peter is our neighbour.You gave up your own father and following your neighbour for worldly titles like chevalier,commander etc.PC peoples looking for white skinned foreigners because of an inferiority complex.
As per your advise,I started to study church history.Now you are blaming about Z.M Paret.Z.M Paret's church history is 100 % correct.You don't like naked truths.That's why your blaming Z.M Paret.You are destroying your mirror because of your face.
Lay trustee C.J kurian was against Vattasserril thirumeni because of two reasons.First:He was a business man and he wanted to use church money for business purpose.Vattasserril thirumeni never allowed it.Second:He wanted to hang his father's picture in the committee room.Vattasserril thirumeni rejected his demand.CJ kurian offered a huge amount of money and invited Abdulla to Malankara.Abdulla wanted to know C.J Kurian was able to fulfill his promise.All these things are clearly written in the "malankara nazranikal".Your "moola"'less cor episcopa's study circle never say these truths.Mr.Mathew,even if we are fighting each other,St. Thomas is our spiritual father,not St.Peter.
Dear Geogy,churches' are closed because of your gundaism.You are following Syrian culture.You don't know anything about freedom and democracy.We are living in civilized society.You must obey law and order of a county.You can't hide your quotation team for ever even if they are in Manjinikkara or Manarkad.
Elected members govern the church.No doubt about it.But who has the authority to appoint a priest in the church?.Only legally elected and synod appointed metropolitan has the authority.Only those who participated in the 2002 Parumala Association have the status co as bishops.Your bishops are illegal and belongs to a dissidents group.How a dissident and unauthorized bishop can lead other people?
Dear Jomon,David himself didn't declare as a king.Peter and Matthew never declared as disciples.God selected them.That is the difference.But Cheruvally and Perumpally disappeareds in the midnight and appeared a few days later as bishops.You foolish people are there to follow them.Our church started by St.Thomas with the guidance of holy spirit.Your society started by another Thomas with the guidance of Shanti Bhushan.

Geogy Abraham said...

Part-1
Dear Ravi & Anita,
Kindly implement the 1934 constitution as you are yelling that Supreme Court has upheld the said church constitution.
Are your bishops ordained legally? Are they acceptable to the whole community of Syrian Orthodox Church in India? If they are, then there isn’t any issue in entering the all Malankara Syrian Orthodox Church in INDIA. One side you say you follow the 1934 constitution (which again amended in your own style). The basic fundamental in this constitution is Malankara Syrian Church is a part of Universal Syrian Orthodox Church under Patriarch of Antioch. This basic fundamental is not followed by IOC devalokam. So, please do not yell that your bishops of Devalokam are legally valid.
See, your bishops are respected in your group of Church and Jacobite bishops are respected in their group of church. Let’s earn mutual respect first.
Mr. Ravi mentioned that “You think these jacobite people are peacelovers?” Yes according to me and my real experience it is. My mother church (in Kochi diocese) was closed for many years even though the majority (75-80%) belong to Patriarch faction; now due the well wishers of the Church, Jacobite people took initiatives and discussed with metran faction (IOC) and with legal efforts (i.e. court order) now church is opened. Now both the Patriach & IOC can do the spiritual needs with their own bishops & priests. Both the side’s bishops & priests are free to enter the church now. As the church parishioner’s majority was Patriarch faction it is now administered by their elected members. Both side priests salary also given by church. This is called peace & harmony. At least efforts must be made. Here, Jacobite Syrian Church had openly declared for amicable settlement, Why IOC devalokam reluctant to come forward. Why they want to go as per court procedures which is an unending task. Church belong to Parishioners, not to an individual (Bishop or Priest whether from Antioch/Malankara). So, cases must be resolved in democratic manner. See the example of Cheegari Church in Malabar region.
I would like to highlight it was due to the mistakes and internal problem of Jacobite Syrian Church the IOC devalokam grew. Also the reunited church in 1958 more conveniently damaged the churches in Malankara. What to do ? It was the fait of Jacobite Syrian Church in India. If you see it is hidden facts.
Please do not yell with regards to Mr. Malankara Varghese case. All know the biodata of him. He himself was a gunda, hence god gave him such a death. This is a LAW & ORDER issue, if the jacobite priest or bishop is behind the murder, they will be caught by LAW or 100% surely by GOD.

Geogy Abraham said...

Part-2
Here in INDIA no body is slaves. Do you think Patriarch Antioch have control over churches here. Can the H.H. enforce powers here in the churches of Malankara? I will say “no way”. Only if the palli pothuyogham decides and the elected trustees & secretary decides it can be done. I will again say he doesn’t have any direct control. Only if people here in MALANKARA (i.e. Parishioners) decide it can be executed.
Again I will repeat Bishops & Priests have no administerial powers in the church & their properties. It is Parishioners & the elected trustees & secretary & elected member by palli pothuyogham have authority on Church. Church belongs to Parishioners, not a particular individual (whether it is Patriach Antioch or Catholicose Devalokam). Bishops & Priest have only spiritual rites in the church. Bishops shall have powers for transferring the priests. Again I will repeat, BISHOPS & PRIESTS HAVE NO AUTHORITY IN ADMINSTERING THE CHURCH & THEIR PROPERTIES.
Please all brothers & sisters come to a point HOW THIS DISPUTES CAN BE RESOLVED ? We all respect each other. Give respect and take respect.
Why can’t the cases be resolved out of court ? Why can’t we live in a brotherly/sisterly manner? Please think in calm manner and I am sure it can be resolved peacefully and in harmony. Why to spend the huge money in court cases which of no use. This money could be spend in other Chritians works/Missionery works.
So, please do not through stones each other. Think in a positive & godly way.
Regards,
GA

Geogy Abraham said...

Dear Anita,
I don’t understand how one can write “St.Thomas is our spiritual father.St.Peter is our neighbour”. I don’t know whether they know the people whom they are writing about. If it is a language of Hindu or Muslim or other religion one can understand. I hope he or she wrote this without sense. A true chritians should’nt write such a language, whether they belong to Jacobite or IOC Devalokam.
Regards,
GA

Ravi George said...

Geogy

We run our church on principles, unlike yours which is based on the whims and fancies of the ONE-Man-SYNOD.

You said, our metropolitan are not selected properly. Our Metropolitan are selected according to the procedures laid down by the Malankara Association. It is a very long procedure and even HH Didimos Bava too cannot make a bishop from his wish list. What ABOUT YOURS?

WE KNOW THE PROCEDURES well in your church. PETTIYIL KAASUMAYITTU ANGU CHENNAL MATHI. Itthra adhapathiccha shameless aayi bishops ne edukkkunna vere oru sabha lokatthil undo? Ningalude 'bar itho koonthali', SHAVA=LIAAAR ellam panakkarkku kacchavadatthinu vecchiriikayalle? Enthenkilum aathmeeyatha nokkiyano ethokke cheyunnathu? This is worse than political parties.

(This is enough in your church because your bishops only Duty is stand behind in groups when photos are taken for media. So you have 15 or 25 in each photograph standing without any work.

Once your own Mathrubhoomi weekly carried a big letter criticising your 'decorating' worst corrupt people with commanders and chevaliers. It was written by your own priest Fr. Darly

In your church, one fine morning a member can read in Manorama daily "Fr Choondakaran" has been anointed as Bishop in Damascus yesterday and will be received in Nedumbassery airport today. Nobody (except the chief cashier who decides everything) in the Church knew what happened before. The procedure is only CASH procedure. I never believed it before, But when a family member of a young Jacobite bishop's family told me how cash was raised for his selection I believed it.

The chief cashier has so huge expenses like handing over cash to Gundas for murder.

HOW HORIBLE it is!

Ravi George said...

EVEN THE RICHEST and The most powerful personsin the Orhtodox Church are not Commanders or Ba ITHO STUFF. You know the richest Malayali is a member of Orhtoodx church. But is he a Bar itho? (I do not know what non-sense it is)

Ravi George said...

@Geegy

THOMA SLEEHA oru pattakkaran polum alla ennu Kalapana irakkiya Antiokyaaa baaavayude anuyaayikku Anita St peter St Thomas-nte brother anennum nammude neighbour anennum paranjathu ithra vishamam ayo?

No doubt St Peter is an elder brother of ST Thomas (They are EQUAL IN STATSU) and undoubtedly St Peter who founded churches in other places is our revered neighbour too.

BUT ST THOMAS ( Our Founder) IS OUR real FATHER of the INDIAN CHURCH. ST THOMAS was not send by St Peter. St Thomas was directly sent by his MASTER CHRIST.

Ravi George said...

GA Said:

BISHOPS & PRIESTS HAVE NO AUTHORITY IN ADMINSTERING THE CHURCH & THEIR PROPERTIES.

Then WHAT is their Authority in the church?

Managing the Church is the Pothuyogam's job. It is the same in the Orthodox Church.

Bishop is the VISBLE Head of the Church. Why should it be reserved for a foreigner when we have even better spiritual people here.

The issue is that According to Jacobites only ARABS are eligible for it. (I have no problems with Pallipothuyogam managing) ECCLESIOLOGY IS OUT IN THE JACOBITE CHURCH. Your LOCAL church can decide on a majority appoint PASTOR as the head of the church or MAtA AMRITANDAMAYI as your hugh priestess. That is one of teh issues
seconldy, INDIANS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE TO BECOME A PATRIARCH.

DEAR GEOGY ABRAHAM , COULD YOU KINDLY tell me WHY Indians are not eligible to becoem a PATRIARCH?
Can HB THOMAS BAVA eligibel to become a Patriarch?

If the amswer is 'YES" I am ready accept that your CHURCH IS FREE and has got equal status with all other universal orthodx Church members.

Noby said...

Dear IOC brothers,You told St Peter and St Thomas are in same level,So what you are singing at the'vivaha koodhasha',
Veedin bharanam sheemone
Suvishesham Yohannane .
Or did you renew your vivaha koodhasha kramam according to 1934 constitution.Some time you didn't think what you are singing and saying because a stolen property won't be valied for the person you who had stolen it and robbers may change their word at any time ,.IOC people took all Syrian practices and 'sushrusha kramam' from Syrian orthodox church but they don't know what is that because these are not valuable for them.So to get into the meaning as what it mean,you have to accept HH Patrirch as your spiritual father(not only in court for the success of caeses).Then all the Hymns and koodhasha kramangal will be meaningfull .otherwise you have to skip some part of the Holy sacraments,to keep your 'Thoma simhasanam' as it is in Devalokam.Best of luck

mohanmathew said...

Regarding peter or any ote rapostle our stand is very clear.

Simon Peter, is neither superior nor inferior to any other apostle. This will never change.

If any mistake has crept into any song, that can be corrcted. Our Church do not say we are infallible.

It was Antiochian patriarch who issued a stupid Kalpana that Thomas Skleeha is not even Pattakkaren.

The present Patriarch si also a brilliant person. He honured Christ by receiving a COPY of Das Capital and enlighted by this favour showon towrds him by the Comunist party, declared that ALL JACOBITES CAN WORK FOR COMMUNIST PARTY> It was not a posted Kalpana. SO The Jacobite MUST OBEY WhAT WAS ORDERED DIRECTLY. How many of you have joined CPM now?

Hope you are all reading Das Capital just like HH Patriarch.

What a spiritua people!

Varghese said...

Why is IOC worried about a jacobite church at Parumala?
IOC people are worried about the offering at Parumala. If jacobites build a church at Parumala the offering will be split into two churches. The frustration of IOC shows this. They are saying all bad things about the jacobites and the same time saying that we are talking about orthodox faith and we are brothers (Reny). Are the brothers acts like this? Some others are saying about the skin color. What was the skin color of Jesus and St. Thomas? Our forefathers followed St. Thomas by his skin color?
Z. M Paret is right when he wrote history on his own way. When H.E Joseph Marthoma said the real history of IOC they discussed that in synod and wrote letter to H.E about that. I did not saw any questioning from marthoma church when IOC used the title Marthoma with their catholikka’s name in 1975. None of the catholikkas used this title before. IOC had problems when MC church used the title catholika for their major archbishop. IOC declared them as National church!!!! What does this means? IOC can do any thing they want, nobody else can’t

One comment was everything in IOC is smooth!!! Of course we know about Gurgan ordination and recent two-priest ordination are examples (See latest issue of malankara deepam)

IOC needs to realize these things.
The parumala church (st. Peter’s) belongs to the throne of Antioch (according to the deed)

Parumala thirumeni himself was a slave of Anthiokkia. Read parumala thirumeni’s salmoosa.

Varghese Thottam.

Reni said...

Mr Varghese

Antochian bishops are used to giving salmoosas as SLAVERY DOCUMENTS. We will throw such salmoosas into the Arabian sea since it goes AGAINST the freedom of governance in our Churches in the future according to CHRIST, the Master. We are not concernd what St Peter has entrusted to his disciples. We are concerend about what OUR FATHER ST THOMAS taught here in India because he was DIRECTED BY CHRIST Himself to the lost people of ISREALITES in Malankara and the rest. (If you talk racism know that we are superior to Ishmaelites. But we do not believe in racism)

It is for this reason that Antochians themselves are drowning in the Arabian sea. (read National Geogrpahic magazine cover story in one issue of 2009 about Arab Christians)

2. We have no fear about your constructing Churches in the name of Parumala Thirumeni anywhere. It is your soceity which is being governed like a profit making corporate company with one man at the helm, selling Bishophood to priests, Chaveliers, Caommanders, bar Itho .. to Almenis..

Parumala is known because Thirmuni's Kabar is there, not because there are many other churches in his name, particularly a jacobite church with (Illa-members) is there. You wait and watch how your greed will grow and bear evil fruits...

YES, we do have a FEAR. You will hide GUNDAS and pros....tes in your churches. When police catch them they would say we were hiding in parumala pally. So there is every lieklihod that ordinary people will misunderstand. We 're only afraid about that.

We are not at all worried about your ARAB church too because we know their strength

Ravi George said...

1. Jacobite Church is ARABI church

2. Syro malabar, Latin, and Syro malnkara are all Roma Churches

3. Marthoma Church went after Anglicans, have divorces them (?) and are confused now

4. Gurgan team Germany church

5. ... so many otehr s are Amercians


Now Varghese, take the Status of St Thomas. You all threw him out. Now you people want to capture that legacy. (We have no objection in your joining St peter)
SO VARGHESE, WE ARE PROUD OF OUR HERITAGE. SO WE ARE THE NATIONAL CHURCH.

Tharam pole videshiyude vaalu nakkan poya nigalkku chodikkan polum avakasam illa

Ravi George said...

ALL ST PETER"S CHURCHES WILL BELONG TO ANTIOCH????

What a joke!

Adyam Arabi naattile pallikal kalayaathe nokku. Pinne ivide vaa

Reni said...

YES Varghese we are brothers.

But how come you became a SLAVE when I am a free person. The biggest bondage is spiritual slavery. ONLY FREE PERSON CAN KNOW THE VALUE OF IT.

SO COME OUT OF THIS ANTIOCHIAN BONDAGE and see how you can build an Indian Church istead of crying out ANTIOCHIA slogan. They are also getting spoiled hearing this.

Reni said...

UNLESS ECCLESIOLOGY IS REINSTATED IN THE JACOBITE CHURCH, it is heading for a major disaster in teh near future. But I do not see that happens in the near future.

jacobites are fed with OPIUM suplied by Viswasamarakshkan and they are under the effect of it. SO nobody si thinking about FUTUREE THERE.

Bibin Karthikappally said...

Mone Jomone,

Njan post cheytha comment aarudeyum paksham pidichu kondayirunnilla. Parumalayil samadhanamayi prarthikkan sahacharyam venam ennu parayan mathram aayirunnu. Njan oru karyam chodichotte, ningal ethra kalavum vannu prarthichathu eppozhulla parumala churchil thanne aayirunnille? Eni avide veroru palli vakkunnath yatharthathil enthinanu? Avideyum kalapathinte bhoomi aakkanalle?

Jibu said...

Enthinanoru veruthe oru vaartha undakunathu, "Nanakkedu ellavarkkum", Yacobayakar parumalayil ninnu vallathum kondupokumo?, pinne enthinaanu nammal pedikunathu. Puthupalliyil avar oru palli panithu, avide enthakkilum preshnam undo eppol? Appol pinne ivide enthinu bhayakanam?

Reju said...

Ente Thomas Pradaman bava entengilum nalla karyam cheyyunnthinu pakaram avideyum ivideyum problems create cheyyan nokkukayananu ningal, iniyengilum nallathupole kumbasarichittu ithuvare cheytha thettukal kazukikalayuka athinushesham sabha makkale Nallathu Padippikkuka

Athupole puthuppalliyil palli panithathu pole irrikkum parumalayil palli panithal, sabha makkale narakathil vidathe swargathil ettikkan nokkuka

daivan angayude sabha makkalode shamikkatte

jacobmathew karuvatta said...

Malankarayude pradhama parisudhanaya kochu thirumeniyude kabaridathinnu sameepam pathriyarkeesukar nadathan sramikkunna eathu kulsitha pravarthanangaleyum jeevan koduthum ethirkkan malankara sabha makkal thayarannu.Vadakkan jillakalil ningal kanikkunna gundayisam vendi vannal njangalum kaninnumenna kariyam marakkanda - Jacob Mathew Karuvatta

vilsontp said...

I would like to highlight one issue for the discussion to all posting their views.

A) In various institutions and churches irrespective of denominations and countries, one who visit can see the part of mortal remains, or the objects used by them including cloths, sandals, spectacles, glasses, plates etc. We can belive many of that as in case of Gandhiji, the objects we preserved at Parumala Church (items used by and the remains of thirumeni), at our museum the items used by our departed leaders, at Goa the body of St. Francis. But How can it be possible to have some remaining or items used by St. Mary at various churches in india and abroad. What is the credibility of these items.Who knows that these items are genuine, because how can it be possible to divide into parts so that it can be given to numerous churches to preserve. whether the degradable cloths can be undegradable for 2000yrs.Who preserved it and during the course of 2000yrs lots of war and procecutions by rulers against christians inand around holy land, relocations of christians, can it be possible.

b) Similarly, the case of the mortal remains of Apostles at various churches in kerala and other places.

c) Similarly, the items used by Parumala thirumeni are displayed at parumala church owned by MOSC. May be thirumeni presented some items to relatives which may reached in the hand of JSOC. Even then how can they divide and keep it at various churches, Cross towers as they claims. Impossible.

Can any one give a clear idea.

Jeevan said...

It will be a problem, because, on same Nov 2, the jacobites will have their Perunal, and also might start padhyatra. There is only one bridge to the island, and on such crowded day, if they bring fanatics from north, 100%, some nonsense is going to happen.

The intention of building is solely to create a problem. Eee buddhi okke rowdykalude thalyille nine varu…

Paul said...

So many times I came across many commens that MOSC is worried about the offerings now Jacobites are giving to Parumala Church. Don’t think that MOSC is surviving on your money. We don’t mind you advising your people not to give any money to Parumala Church. Please make sure that your people only go there and pray, and keep the money with them so that they can later send it to Puthenkuriz. Are you people ashamed of talking in that way. Do you know how many Orthodox people visit Churches at Kothamangalam, Karingachira, Manarcaudu etc and make offerings. Will Jacobite leadership dare to display a board in those places requesting orthodox people not to make offerings? And, what do you people do with the money you collect? Giving quotation for murdering someone you don’t like; right ?

Abraham said...

@Vilson
Thirumeni was a bishop in the undivided church. His various vestments had been in posession of the major centres he stayed and with his disciples. So it is natural that both faction will have some relics.
Also a relic can be even a piece of cloth. Some years back, the bed of thirumeni at parumala was not covered with glass. People had pricked the pieces of the "paya" and the "pulithol". All of them can be considered as relics.

However, the practice of establishing relics in various churches and declaring it as "vadakkinte parumala", thekkinte parumala", marubhoomiyile parumala" etc are cheap numbers, whichever faction may do it.

aby karthikappally said...

Hello jomon,
mon alla eni thomas prathaman nerittu vannal polum karthikappallyilo mavelikarayilo Palli Paniyan puthenkurishukarku pattila................

NITHIN said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rinu Vettiyar said...

Malankara Orthodox Sabha Nethruthathe aadhyamayi abhinandikkukayanu...


Ithu Sathyathinte Vijayam, ithu Dharmathinte vijayam, ithu neethiyude Vijayam ithu Daivathinte Vijayam Pishachintemel Itha veendum daivam Jayaghosham muzhakkunnu. Daivmame ninak sthuthy sthuthy

Sthuthi chovvakapetta Visasikalaya Malankara Orthodox sabha makkalude jeevathmavaya Parumalayil Duplicate parumala Undakkuvanulla Puthenkurishinte Neechamayathum, lajjavahavumaya Pravarthanathe Malankara Sabha makkal Orumichu ninnu Neeridum. Malankar sabha makkalude jeevan bali kazhikendi vannalum puthenkurishinte paishachika pravarthanathe orikkalum angeekarikkukayilla.


Parumala Palliyil Ella vibhagangalkkum praveshanam und Jacobite vaidheekar Parumala palliyil varunnilla ennu theliyikkan Puthenkurishukarkku kazhiyumo? Protastantkar polum parumalayil varunundu. Nanajathi mathstharaude abhaya kendramaya parumalayil ee nimisham vareyum orale polum thadanjittilla, eni nale thadayukayumilla. Ennittum Parumalayil Pallikku sameepam oru palliyude aavishyam enthanu ennullathu ellavarkkum ariyam. Rahasyamayi Puthenkurishile Palarum angeekarikkunumund


St.Thomasine Puthenkurishukar orikkal thalliparanjirunnu emnnal St.thomasine avar angeekarikkunnu epol, parumala thirumeni ennu parayan madi kanicha puthenkurishukar adhehathe chathuruthy thirumeni ennanu vilikkunnathu, Parumala Thirumeni ennu eppol vilikkunnu

Priya sahodharangale Sathyathe avaganikkan epolum sadhikkilla orikkal athine angeekariche pattu athanu evide nadakkunnathu.

malankara sabhayil prathyekichu thekkan bhagathu problems undakkam ennulla Sreshttanteyum koottarudeyum swpnam undallo athu nadakkilla. Malankara sabhaye samrakshikkuvan njangalkku kazhivund jeevan poyalum njangalkku probvlem illa njangalude jeevananu Malankara sabha. Parumalayil Palli paniyam ennulla swpnam orikkalum nadakkilla athu eni enthu thanne vannalum. Sreshttanum koottarum janangalude munpil nanamkedathe Parumala Palli Kurishadiyil Nerchayittu Nallamanassu tharan Daivathodu apeekshikkaname ennu Parumala thirumeniyodu Madhyasthatha anachittu poyalmathi.



Malankara sabha Makkale Namuk orumichu nilkkam, Sabhaye nayikkunna pithakkanmare Jeevan koduthum sabhaye samrakshikkuvan njangal thayyaranu dairyamayi daiveekamaya karuthumayi munnottu povuka Sarwathinteyum adhikari, Nyayadhipanmarude nyayadipathi Daivam Nammodu koodeyund.....

Marthoma sleehayude simhasanam neenal Vazhatteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Jai Jai catholicos

Rinu Vettiyar said...

Sreeshttanum Koottarum Malankara sabhaye thakarkkuvanulla neekkathil ninnum pinmaranam. Aaavesham nallathanu but athu amithamakaruthu Puthenkurishukar kuzhikkunna kuzhiyil Puthenkurishukar thanne veezhukayullu.....

Rinu Vettiyar said...

Jai Jai Catholicos
Jai Jai Catholicos

Jai Jai Catholicos

Jai Jai Catholicos

Jai Jai Catholicos

Jai Jai Catholicos

aby karthikappally said...

Pampa nadhiyude theerathe punnya bhoomi aaya parumalaye vargeeyathayude visha vithu paaki akrama bhoomi aakkuvan eth society vicharichalum nadakilla....
Malankara Orthodox Sabha yude yuvajangal athinu anuvathikilla.........
parumala palliku kallidan thiruvella vare vannittu malankara makalude shakthiyum othorumayum kannd bhayannu madangi poyathu nattil muzhuven pattayi..........
Athu kond enienkilum etharathilulla saramagalilninnu pinmaranam....

shine said...

My house is very close to parumala church. Respected Coorilos thirumeni's kalpana totaly telling lie because they own the plot only for 20 lakhs. but Metropolitian is informing their people they bought the plot by paying 60 lakhs.

If jacobite built a new church there will start a big trouble during parumala pallie perunnal. In future it will lead to another vulgar situation. Coorilos Thirumeni knows very clearly fight will happen in future. I am wondering why thirumeni is doing like this. May be thirumeni like to see the human blood of orthodox and jacobite peoples.

All people in parumala (those who respect Parumala thirumeni) also came forward to prevent building a new church.

NITHIN said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
lijo said...

panam undenkil arkum evideyum plot vangam..ithe arkkisukarum cheytullu.pine avide palli paniyam ennullathu oru swapnam..athokke swapnam kandu ippozhe pirivu tudangiyittundu...pitakkanmar parayunna pole viswasikkan kollatha kootar...ini malankara sabha oru vittuveezhchayum kaataruthu..ini muthal ivanmarude adithara ilakan pova..

eldo said...

enthayalum aluvayilea polea car kathikkanum,vazhi thadayanum eni achanmareaum,almayakkareaum kittilla ennu thomas prdhamanariyam.alengi adhegam parumalayilum yanjam,upavasathinteum ellam adavu eduthu nokkianea.emmathiri melpattakkarea,eganea, enthavayasthina oru jolium ellathea kondu nakkunnea.ellavarum pirivinu foreign countrieslila,nattilu joli ellanjitta janam prayasapettu foreignil varunnea,avideum pirivatu vayya,kashtom

Joe said...

Very interesting to read some of the posts on this. I just could skim thru less than 10 posts. Anyways, as a member of the Indian Orthodox Church, I support the right of Patriarch faction to build a church in Parumala. But let them not create nuisance to the already existing parumala church by building some structure so close to it and then celebrating the same feasts and festivals as that existing in the parumala church. Then it becomes a law and order problem. Parumala is not a very small area of land, to necessitate building anything so close to the church. Why dont they build their church, may be some one or two kilometers away from the parumala church, so that they do not create headache to the government and even to the public in parumala which include not only Christians, but also members of other religions as well. A distance of one or two kilometers should not matter as far as paying tributes to St. Gregoriose is concerned.

Reni said...

ONE THING I AM SURE. WHOEVER MAKE PARUMALA A PLACE OF CONTENTION WILL SUFFER FOR GENERATIONS.

LAVKS GO THER EFOR SOLITUDE AND PRAYERS. TEH MOTIV EBNEHIND ESTABL;ISHING ANOTHE RREBLE CHRUCH JUST IS TO BE SEEN AS AN EVIL DESIRE.

I REQUST ALL MY BROTERS& SISTERS WHO ARE GREAT ADMIRERES OF PARUMAL THIRUMENI NOT TO CONTRIBUTE MONEY OR SHOW YOUR SUPPORT WITH YOUR PRESENCE OR WORDS IN THIS EVIL VENTURE

Saju said...

Mar Baselios Bavas Khabar is in Marthoman Cheriya Palli of Kothamangalam which is under the Jacobite Church. There are colleges, scools, Hospitals and various other institutions which have the name Mar Basil. There are various shops and bus services with the name Mar Basil. Jacobite church do not have a 'Patent right' on the name Mar Basil. If MOSC, Gurgan Church, Rebel Gurgan Church, reeth church or whoever claims Syrian heritage starts a church at Kothamangalam in the name of St. Basil or Mar Basil, the Jacobites should be the happiest group because their saint is getting recognized and honoured by all the Christians. It is high time that sensible people and leaders of MOSC should come forward and calm the situation. They have to tell their people that Mor Gregorios of Parumala or Chathuruthil can not be patented for a group. Moreover, since MOSC stands for freedom, they should not object their sister church's intention to build a church in their saint's name. Saint Parumala thirumeni is a common saint for both MOSC and MSOC/Jacobites as saint George is to both. I believe this is a time waste for MOSC to get indulge in this issue. The ban from Collector is not to be seen as a great victory.

These are things that may happen because of this issue:
1. Court may say the alleged law and order problem on perunnal days is an administration issue and the same can not be held against the fundamental rights of citizens. thus Jacobite Church may get permission from court to build the church.

2. This will become a big issue and the next government will be forced to negotiate with the two groups. Jacobite church can bring Thrikkunnath issue to the table and they may offer to give up proposed Parumala church in return for MOSC giving up Thrikkunnath.

In either case, Jacobite Church will be the gainer. Now MOSC has to think twice before ballooning this issue.

Common sense will advise MOSC people and leadership to reverse their present course of action. Make your unity wishes true. This is the right time. Welcome the Jacobite church to build a church there and give them all the assistance for the same. This will help to boost the goodwill of MOSC. Jesus, Saint Gregorios, Saint Thomas and St. Peter & St. Paul will dance with joy in heaven.

Saju, USA.

varkey said...

Parumala island already has 3 other orthodox parishes besides the seminary church and none of them is named after St. Gregorios although they have thronose dedicated to Parumala thirumeni. This is what the jacobites are using to 'brand' their new church. Everyone knows the ulterior motives of cheruvillil Dionyasios and a one look at the foll. link will tell you that. http://www.billdesk.com/hdfc/parumala/hdfc_parumala_donation.htm

Now instead of going into strife, what our leadership needs to do is to elevate the hospital Chappel nearby to the status of a church during this parumala perunnal. The chapel, built using the materials from the old church is also its replica.I believe there are enough floating people.. the hospital staff who can be given membership here. they will be aleast 10 times more than what jacobites can manage in Parumala.

Mathew Kuriakose, PTA said...

Joice, Very Good Work. Congratulations.

niho said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
George said...

I read a book illustrating the history of Kottayam Kurishupally some 10 years back. There was a very serious dispute between two groups regarding the exact spot where the stone cross should be re aligned consequent to the renovation of the pally. It grew as a big issue and some one reported this to Parumala Thirumeni, who came to Kottayam and sat inside the pally madbaha in meditation for hours and hours. This was enough to reconcile the two warring groups. Unfortunately, we are trying to PROTECT Parumala Thirumeni as if he is helpless. Can't we see the situation the other way? ie we need his PROTECTION. Then all these issues will get resolved amicably.
### GEORGE JOSEPH ###

Malankara Orthodox TV said...

My Dear George Sir,

Kurisupally yile Kurisu Palliyude Padinjaru Vasathu Aanu Irunnathanu. Athu Evide Matty Vackanamenna Tharkkam Theerkkan Pulikkottil Thirumeni Parumala Thirumeniye Elppichu. Parumala Thirumeni Paranjittanu Athu Eduthu Madhbahayil Vachathu.

Ezhuthukal Enna Bookil Ithu Sambandhichu Ayacha Kalpanayekkurichu Paramarsam Undu. (Page 136).

Joice Thottackad

George said...

IN HIS POSTING, MR SAJU HAS MADE A COMMENT ABOUT ST YELDHO MOR BASELIUS BAVA AS "THEIR" SAINT. THIS IS WRONG. WE CANONIZED HIM AS SAINT IN 1947 AND THEY DID IT IN 1987. THUS BASELIUS BAVA IS OUR SAINT FIRST AND THEN ONLY THEIR SAINT.
###GEORGE JOSEPH###

Joshy said...

Dear All,
How many people have been murdered in Puthupally during perunnal where both Jacobites and Orthodox have churches in the same name St. George just oposite to each other. People are coming sometimes visiting both churches and pray for St. George. Then why such hysteria against a new church in Parumala. The name of Old church is St. Peters and st. Paul, while new churche's name is St. Gregorious.
Similarly if Orthodox people can use Yeldho(the current Ankamaly bishop's earlier name was Yeldho Ramban) then why can't Jacobite name a church of St. Gregorious.

Isaac said...

With all due respects to our respected H.G. Geevarghese Mor Kuriloos of our Niranam Diocese of our Jacobite Church.

Going by the working style of our Geevarghese Mor Kuriloos Thirumeni, it is evident that H.G delights in causing strife in what so ever H.G. indulges in. For example, H.G. caused problems in our UK dioceses just because H.G. photo did not come up in the web page of our Jacobite churches in UK and H.G. excommunicated our most dedicated Priest with help of our Patriarch.

As we know, H.G. is humorous too and now the recent joke, in which H.G. says that there are 30 families from Parumala Church who approached him to build a church in Parumala. Ha, ha, what a joke by H.G. We know that we don’t even have two or three families in Parumala region. Probably 30 families were shifted into Parumala by our people and then made to speak?

We know the modus operandi of our Geevarghese Kuriloos Thirumeni who is very very shrewd even from his days as a priest. Therefore, all who deal with our Geevarghese Kuriloos Thirumeni, please be aware. Please be careful.

First point made by our Geevarghese Kuriloos Thirumeni was to build our church in Parumala saying that it has got nothing to do with the present church of the Indian Orthodox at Parumala, as we the Jacobite people just want to fulfill our religious obligations in the new church. In this method of operation, everybody will believe what Geevarghese Kuriloos Thirumeni says and after the new church is built, the FIRST GRIP will be established.

Second point, as many of my Jacobite friends in the discussions in our SOCM yahoo group and here in MTV too noted, that after building our new church and fulfilling the religious obligations, our Jacobite people would visit the resting place of the Saint and place their offerings. Now, the SECOND GRIP is established.

Third point, hinted by our Geevarghese Kuriloos Thirumeni was that title deed of the present Church in Parumala is in the name of the Patriarch of Antioch. Therefore in future a claim would be made that if our people can pay their respects at the resting place of the Saint and place their offerings, why not our priests and bishops also be allowed to pay their respects and have Doopa Prarthana at least on Perunal days and the LAST AND FINAL GRIP is established.

The net result? A Thrikunnathu Seminary issue is raised by us in Parumala too. What a clever trick by our beloved H.G. Geevarghese Kuriloos Thirumeni.

Continued on Page 2
Isaac Joseph.K.

Isaac said...

Continued from Page 1
Page -2-

Therefore, as a peace loving Jacobite Christian an appeal to the Civil administrators, the Government, the Law administrators, the respected Courts and the Orthodox office bearers please, please see the writing on the wall and take action accordingly.

A very very humble request to our Geevarghese Kuriloos Thirumeni and my Jacobite Church leadership. Please, please desist from all such unchristian acts. Please don’t spoil the holy atmosphere existing now in Parumala.

If we want to build a new church let us do so, as the constitution of India guarantees secular freedom to all. No body can stop us. And, Parumala Island is big enough. Yes indeed, if we really respect and love our Saint let us not turn his resting place into a place of calamity.
Let us Jacobites set an example to the whole world. Instead of building the new Church at the entrance to the Present Church, let us build the proposed church 2 or 3 km away from the present Church. Let us avoid turning Parumala Seminary into a Thrikunnath Seminary issue in the future. That would be a headache in future for the Civil administrators, the Government, the Law administrators, the respected Courts and of course for the Orthodox and us Jacobites too.

But, if we are determined, then let us first follow Jesus teaching proving our worth. I call upon our beloved Geevarghese Kuriloos Thirumeni to set an exampole and make the first move to convince our Church leadership to let us first set an example and gift to the Indian Orthodox people a plot of land opposite our St. Mary’s Church in Manarcaud, so they can build a Church for themselves or for that matter even gift to the IOC the small Church by itself that is opposite to the big church in Manarcaud. Are we generous enough to do that and then start moving to build our church at Parumala? I’m sure our friends in IOC would help us right away and even gift us with a “relic” of the Saint to be honored in our new church.

Thanks to all of you.
God, we pray, Bless us all.

Isaac Joseph.K.

eldhose said...

PARUMALAYIL PALLI PANITHAL ORTHADOX KARUDA NERCHA PANAM KURAYUMENNULLA PADIYANO? PINNE A KASHU KONDU CASE NADATHAN PATTILALLO? ATHAYIRIKUM KARANEM.CASH KODUTHU VANGIYA STHALATHU PALLI PANIYENDA ANNU PARAYAV NANAMILLA? NINGALA POLE MATTULLAVARUDA PALLIKALIL ALLALO NJANGAL VARUNNATHU?

rajan said...

Dear All,

If I owned a land I have full liberty to build a building as I like. The freedom of the country allows it. But if any body loves peace should think about the harmony and a role model for the society.
For example I am staying on the right hand side of Ayyappa Temple. For the main road, I have to cross an open ground which is owned by Government and under the management of Devasam Board. If I wish to set up a Kurishumood there it can create chaos among the Hindu soceity living around there and defenitely spoil the long long traditional religious harmony which my grand fathers and father has built during their time. No body can stop any christian to cross the ground to reach the Kurishintotti if our parish build it. Further I never worship Idol Gods. But my father had taught his children not to cross the ground while they are performing the "Deep aaradhana". We do wait to corss the ground even though my hindu neigbours dont bother it. Once an IAS bramin officer has notified it and really appreciated me.The beliefs, customs and faith may differ, but living in harmony and respecting others need well brought up from his own family, the society blessed mother and mother church.

No comments for the drama like "Mimics" duplicates Parumala. Let them be the Mimics players and do the evil as they like. We are peace loving people, so dont spoil our image among the gentiles. Dont afrid for their threats of showing the "Olapamp".
Varghese Mathai
Member SGOC Sharjah.
(It would be appreciable if the commentors displays their identity, even if a non-christians and instead of binami)

niho said...
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shine said...

Dear eldos,

vadakku jacobite church naduthu oru orthodox pallie paniyan anuvadam chodichappol, athu kramasamadanam thakurumaennu paranju nirasichu ( jacobite priests and Metropolitians)

ippol parumalayil sambhavichappol allpam onnu vaedanichu allae..

johnson said...

എവിടെയെങ്കിലും വഴക്ക് ഉണ്ടാക്കുകയെന്നുള്ളത് അവരുടെ സ്ഥിരം ഹോബിയാണ്

Babu said...

Why we scare Patriarchal Group? Let them build a Church in Parumala as we build one in Kothamangalam. In Reality Parumala Seminary belongs to His Holiness The Patriarch of Antioch.
Babu USA

Babu said...

it was so shameful our priests protesting in the middle of the road, tomorrow these priests have to raise The Holy Body and The Holy Blood. If you have anything against your brother keep your "Vazhipadu at the table and get peace with him and come back do your Vazhipadu" Our priest shouldn't follow Pinarayi or Achuthandan They are the followers of Christ!

eldo said...

seminary rambantea kathu kandappozha manasilayea,seminariude underil ethra matram institutions undu ennu.ethengam thomas prdhmanyirunnel ellam trustinu keezhilakki vittu chruvelli trustinu asset koottiyeanea.soeitykku role model aakenda,aalmeathayil valarnnu,valarthi,swarga rajayam sameebichirikkal manasatharapeduvin ennu padipikkenda bishopmar oru pWD contractor/allengill oru thirdright.......kattikoottunnathano christanity,ningalea daivam thiranjeduthatho,vilikkapetta vilikku cherunna vithamano jeevikkunathu atho perumbally thirumeni kalamcheyythappo than cheyytha pokkiritharangal mattarkkum ariyilla ennukaruthunna thomas prdhamano

sampariyarathu said...

Dear All, In One of The blog(21/ 08/10) Comments one person said, He is Lucky because of Syrian Jacobite Christian By Birth!I don'know how somebody can claim like that! In Malankara,all major christians denominations like orthodox,catholic,Marthomaare known as Malankara Nazranikal/st.Thomas Christians!The reason Behind this is St.Thomas(mar thoma Sleeha)preached gospel here and he(st.thomas)have begotten us through the Gospel in Christ!(read what apostle Paul wrote I Corinth 4:14-15)In Christ we have so manyInstructors/Teachers(St.Thomasis our father,all other apostles are instructors and teachers ) Spiritual Father is St.Thomas!All malankara nazranis are indigenous Christians of Kerala/Malankara Origin!They are not born as Syrian Jacobite Christian!In Baptism also The re-birth takes place Through Jesus Christ and His Father and Holy Spirit!Our Identity is St.Thomas Christian!
Those who claim to be Syrian Jacobite are not from Syria or none of the malankara Christians are "Born Syrian Jacobite!"

Saju said...

Dear George Joseph,
I don't think I was wrong when I mentioned Baselios bava as 'their' (Jacobites)saint. Bava is indeed the saint of Jacobites.

The mistake I made was at the end of the paragraph. In the sentence.."Saint Parumala thirumeni is a common saint....." I wrote "Saint George" by mistake. My intention was to put St. Basil.

The whole point I wanted to make is that it is utter foolishness on the part of MOSC to create so much problem in this church issue. According to Jacobite church, they want to maintain peace at St. Peters & St. Paul church. Instead of creating any problem or court cases, they wants to build a church at Parumala. If it is not anyone's property, they have every right to build it. No Collector or court can stand in their way of building a place of worship. There is no minimum requirement of members to start a church as far as I know. In my opinion, the MOSC leadership is showing weakness. In all other church cases, they depend on courts and in this situation they are mobilizing people. That means they are well aware of the outcome through courts in this matter.

It is a blessing to the land when more and more churches are built in the name of parumala bava. If MOSC is afraid of tentions at perunnal days, the Jacobite church can have their perunnal after a week. Any church built at Parumala will be a secondary church as long as St. Peters & St. Pauls church is there.

I believe this is a golden opportunity for MOSC leadership to make their unity wishes in to reality. They should welcome a Jacobite church there and provide all the help they can to build a beautiful church. Then after both church is united (as MOSC always say) we have two churches like Kothamangalam ( Mar Thoman and St. Marys located just opposite).

It is very sad for MOSC faithful to see their leadership always jumps in to foolish acts one by one. Earlier it was bishop Gurgan ordination and now it is the proposed Jacobite church at Parumala issue.

Someone suggested that instead of street-show, people should ask for Parumala thirumeni's blessings. If Jacobites have Parumala bava's blessing to go ahead, they will build a church. If Parumala bava's blessing is with MOSC leadership to prevent the construction of a church by Jacobites, no church will be built there.

George said...

Dear Mr Saju,
I agree with your thinking to almost everything but for your assertion that St Yeldho Bava is "THEIR" saint. Pease note that their canonization of Yeldho Bava came 40 years after our canonizing this Bava as Saint.We did it in a single Kalpana alongwith Parumala Thirumeni by Kallassery Bava.Secondly, nobody can monopolise on the posession of a saint. Otherwise, how do we respect St Alphonsa? But here the point is the official canonization and we did it 40 years early. My son is named YELDHO,who is now 23, after this Saint.
### GEORGE JOSEPH###

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