We came to know that there were only 2500 people for the meeting on Sunday. The 'great' rally was canceled due to the great fall in the number of people attended.
Metropolitan Consecration Centenary of Paulose Mar Athanasius Kuttikkattil at Aluva on Aug. 8. Photos
HB Thomas I's Kalpana
Hindu, Aug. 9
Manorama News
Babu Paul's Article about Antiochian Syriac Orthodox Church Arch Diocese of US.
An Article about the canonisation of Paulose Mar Athanasius Kuttikkattil by Vipin K. Varughese
71 comments:
But I think this post has been avoided...why should we disrespect others....at least we must have some difference with them. let them live their way... why should we bothers.
I was wondering on what Vayalar Ravi said about Kuttikkattil Thirumeni. Poor man have been briefed by some fanatic.
Let me brief my experience. Late Phiiphose Thomas (Mar Philipose Eusebius) was Senior to me at U.C College where he was a student. He came with me to meet Late Kuttikkattil Thirumeni at Thrikkunathu Seminary once. When we reached seminary, Thirumeni was lying on his bed and an Achen went and told Thirumeni some students have come to see him. He called us inside and asked where are you from. Phiiphose Thomas suddenly replied 'from Pathanamthitta', and instantly Kuttikkattil Thirumeni replied, 'appol thekkarra alley'. He didn't bother to even bless us and didn't show any hospitality or didn't even ask why did you come? I didn't bother to tell him that I am a Vadakkan and from Vayaliparambil family. I felt remorse for that comment. I could since visualise the whole reason for the issues in our the church in this part of the State is nothing to do with faith or belief. It is the handiwork of a set of prejudiced people. Will we ever get out of such elements.
Pandan nayude pallinu shouryam...
The preparations started long before. HB Thomas Bava claimed that this was going to be the biggest gathering of his followers.
Manorama Kochi edition (Sunday) quoting
Jacobite leaders said "Half Lakh people would come". In Manorama, there was a separate news box for trafffic control and special arrangements. Even HB's Kalpana was full of instructions on crowd management and other details . On saturday, Manorama had issued a half page special story on Poulose Athanasios Bishop. There was a talk the event was gouing to be 'BIG'.
The weather was excellent on Sunday. Krubana was finished much earleir to reach the venue before time as the crowd was going to be LARGE
People who expected a large photo of crowd were shellshocked to see Monday Manorama nespapaper. There was a report of the meeting and no mention of the crowd. The news was much smaller than the
previous day's reports. I saw mathrubhoomi.. it was
even smaller.
I checked The Hindu (Kochi edition Monday page 3) A small reported titled "Centenary fete of consecration held" said........A spokesman for the Jacobite Church said that around 10,000 people and 20 bishops participated in the programme, spread over two days, starting Saturday.
Read again .10,000 people participated ..spread over two days... There was no mention of RALLY. I was sure, if the Jacobite spokesman claimed 10,000, not even a quarter would have attended. But SYRIAC VOICE NOW CLAIMS 20,000.
Actual witnesses from Alwaye said there were less than 2,500 people and for the same reason, the rally was cancelled. Buses were running without people.. SO THE EVENT PLANNED OUT TO BE THE BIGGEST EVER TURNED OUT TO BE THE "BIGGEST EVER FLOP"
I can only give a piece of advice to HB THOMAS BAVA
Dear Thirumeni, People know who you are actually, you cannot cheat everybody for ever. So drop your plan to divide the CHURCH. LET US STAND UNITED
God looks at the intentions. Jacobite leaders were mislading people of the same to divide the Church. BUT ALL THE PEOPLEIL STAND UP FOR PEACE AND UNITY OFTHE FAITH. I love all the people in the HB's camp. They will soon relasie the truth. The strategy of some leaders to CUT CHRIST'S BODY WILL NOT WORK.AMEN
Mala Eliye Prasavichathu pole AYI Thomas Bavayude 'sammelanam'. I think it is time for Thomas Bava to quit... by the by, what happened to the resignation dramas enacted earlier..??? BUT WAIT.. Pleae wait Thirumeni .. we do not a succession fight in the Jacobite Church... becasue they are OUR PEOPLE, PEOPLE OF THE SAME FAITH MISLED BY A FEW GREEDY LEADERS..
THOMAS BAVAYUDE NATAPATIKAL
parajayatthil ninnum paraajayatthilekku mookku kutthunna Thomas Bava iniyenkilum ee kalahamundakkunna pani nirthi nere chovve jeevikkumo?
Those who still have any doubt READ THOMAS BAVA's Kalpana 5 times. It was a frantic call for all the FAITHFUL TO COME TO ALUVA... Everything was excellent.. (His organiational skills are well-known) media management, TRANPORT, TRAFFIC, Parking.. SPEAKERS and minister, CM, top poiticians, video, photographers...... ONLY ONE THING WAS LACKING..PRAYER.. that is only a show business for him..prayer.. fasting... Parayer Dharna..ennu venda.. INI NATAKAM KALI NATAKKILLA VANDYA THIRUMENI... aalukalkku karyam ariyaam.
can u please tell why did the Indian orthdox tried to declare Paulose mar athansius as a saint in 2004 due to which jacobites needed to declare suddenley. Thay were planning to declare when HH patriach bave comes to india but since orthdox tried to declare jacobites decalred before it.
So please tell why ortdox faction tried to declare athanasius thirumeni as a saint
Leave alone the Saintly discussions a for a while.
Some are declred as saints.. but time will prove who ia a saint or who is not. But God Almighty knows everything.
Now, Mr Manu Zach, see what happened in Aluva on Sunday. The event was planned as just a show. But it floped miserably... no reason except for beliers losing confidence in the present jacobite leaders. Will they ever quit? I think people will one day demand it. Sooner the better
thomas thirumeni 77 adiude peril ethramathram nettam undakki ennu eppozhalle manasilayathu.t m varghese case enthai.quarbana pokki adakkumbole paraum pithavum puthranum roohaum allathea verea parishudhan ellannu.evarudea lekanam vaikkumbole kashtom thonnum.nazhika nazhika neee......nazhika......pizhakum.eppozhengan yesu vannal thomas thirumeni parayum.ammayea marannalum anthioch marakkulla.than poyee case kodukku.nangal kaiookkukondu kariyam nadathum ennu
ee kallaparaum,kozhiparambathum okkea cheyyunnathum parayunnathum thammilulla maattam?
600 Perkku Irikkavunna Town Hallinu Pakaram Yakobaya Pallikku Sameepamulla Maithanathu Meeting Nadathan Enthe Puthenkurisukar Madichathu.
Zakka Bavayudeyum Thomas I bavayudeyum Valiya Cut Out kal. Pavam Valia Thirumeniyudethu Cheria Photoyum.
Antiochya Ennu Paranju Chathu Nadakkunnavarkku okke Valia Thirumeniyude Ee Gathy Thanne Varum.
Pavam Vayalarji Thomas Bavayude Sishyanayi Ennu Thonnunnu. Angerude Bhavi Kattappokayakum.
One of the colour blind "metran kakshi" media has come with a claim that only 2500 attended the concluding ceremony of the Metropolitan consecration centenary of St. Valiya thirumeni. Though it is not necessary to justify ourselves as the faithful who were present at Aluva know the fact, we are forced to make a few observations.
Our dear " kottayam Nasrani simham (?) " seems to have forgotten the fact that if the faithful from just four surrounding parishes attend the meeting, the numbers will go beyond 25,000. At the same time we do understand another fact that it will be difficult for them to comprehend such a large gathering of faithful as they are used to getting people on hire from Thumbamon/Pathanamthitta areas for their "maha " and "mega" sammelanams. They just cannot understand the sincere love we have for our prelates and departed saints when compared to their "cosmetic" love having an eye only on the offertory placed at their tombs. While our saints and departed fathers are a part of our life, their saints are " brand names " for them.
There was no rally planned as a part of the celeberations. But our friends on the other side have somehow come up with the conclusion that a rally was cancelled.
We can conclude that all these "journalistic acrobatics " that we see are to satisfy their cheap ego and nothing else. A live example of cheap yellow journalism.
May good sense prevail!!! That's all we can wish and pray.
(From http://malankarasyriacvoice.com)
25000 Per Undayirunnenkil Avarude Oru Photo Onnu Kanichu Tharumo?
Mathrubhoomi (Puthenkurisukarude Swantham Pathram) Parayunnathu "Nooru Kanakkinalukal Pankeduthu" Ennanallo!!!
Dear Chandichayan
Avarude Vakthavu (spokesman) The Hindu (Monday 9th August Kochi edition Page 3) pathratthil parnajathayi kodutthirukunnathu 10,000 aanu. ATHUM RANDU DIVASATTHE MOTHAM AALU. Pinne engane ee 25000 kanakku vannu.
Spokesman thanne 4 iratti kootti paranju.
Ee kalla kalikal thudangiyittu aandukal valare aayi. Swargatthil ninnu vettu kittithudangiyathu HH Patriach Bava keralatthil vanna sesham muthal aanu. Annu muthal innu vare ellam potti kondirikunu.
Choodu vellatthil chadiya pooccha paccha vellam kandal anakkum.
Ini Janmatthil Thomas Bava rally-kku allenkil sammelanatthinu aale vilikkilla.
Eee sothrapanikal onnum illathe Didimos Bava kaottyatthu rally natatthan kalpana ayacchu. Thirumni prardhicchu kondirunnu. Sabhaye polum athishayippicchanu short notice-il aa rally natatthiyathu. pathrakkar, TV, GOVt okke njettippoyi. Athanau Vinayam, Prardhana ivayude sakthi
Hi,
I have not got the answer. There is a article in the home page of Malanakara othdox tv "Paulose Mar Athanasius Kuttikkattil by Joice Thottackad." in which the author has written bad words abt thirumeni.
Then why hell did orthdox bhisops tried to declare thirumeni as a saint in 2004.
Manu
ഇനി എന്തെല്ലാം കാണാന് ഇരിക്കുന്നു മക്കളെ.
This was another blow to the Indian catholicos.Recently he got a blow from his American Archbishop who was able to gather 2000 people(almost same number of people assembled in Aluva)for the silver jubilee celebrations.The people are daily praising the administrative and leadership efficiency of the Archbishop whom the catholicose wanted to get rid of from America.The cease fire bet ween the catholicos and the Archbishop will come to an end when the patriarch will take a decision in the syrian synod in the coming months.As the Archbishop has proved his mettleness only option left for the catholicos now is to get the American diocese divided in to two as originally planned by him and get one of them direcltly under him.
Thomas Kuttikandathil.
Dear all
it is not our/ MOSC's concern about centenary celeberations of L/L Paulose Mar Athanasius of Kuttikkattil. Whether he is a Saint or not we had nothing to bother about L/L Bishop. Puthencruez and H.B. Thomas I group are always propagandists people,misguiders,and perpetual rumor mongers.we need not talk about their saint's issues/or centenary celeberations here.
Church is not a political Party/Society
" Nakshathrangal poli loke shobhichoril chilare,kanunnille najan ee shudhar koottathil!"
Let us not be bias,however this is what going to happen to many faithful including Bishops/Priests/ so called people of "Stuthi Chovvakkapetta Suriani Sabha"before Christ's Judgement.
What is this noise on declaring Kuttikkattil Thirumeni as a Saint in MOSC? When St.Dionysius of Vattasseril was declared a Saint in 2003 it was suggested to start the process of canonizing HH Gheevarghese I, II & Pampady Thirumeni as saints by our Holy Synod. One of the 4 Bishops who came to our faction suggested, why can’t we consider canonizing Kuttikkattil Thirumeni. The news papers reported the same the way they wanted and we interpret the same the way we would like it.
Since the Puthencruz society felt that MOSC may canonize Kuttikkattil Thirumeni, they went and canonized him first in haste. Even the year long celebrations was first inaugurated by MOSC at Thrikkunathu Seminary by HG Yuhanon Polycarpos Thirumeni. Seeing that news in the papers, the Puthencruz society inaugurated their part of inauguration after that and have now ended the year long celebrations in a big flop. Any body who entered the town hall felt it was a meeting to do something with the Patriarch or HB Thomas as their flex was covering the two sides of the wall. In short it is just Politics and neither there is any faith in it nor any respect for Kuttikkattil Thirumeni.
It is right time that we include all the Jacobite people into the ORTHODOX FAITH and our one Church that belongs to each and everybdoy. IT IS CHRIST"S BODY. We all have only equal rights there. But as Poulose Sleeha commanded we should kickout the evil doers who tried hard to divide US. I mean those who object the unity of CHRIST'S TRUE CHUCH should have no role there in the Church.
HB Thomas Bava and few of his friends are only misleading innocent followers saying that MOSC members will take away their churches. I suggest Church leaders to publish simple illustrative books and videos that explain in detail how the churches in the Sabha are run. One of our failure is that we could not fight the misinformation war of HB Thomas bava. I wish some good-hearted church member and lover of Sabha would sponsor a VIDEO on this.
I also request all my MOSC members to treat any Jacobite member with due respect and welcome them to the church becasue the CHURCH IS THEIRS TOO. In fact we shoud honour them when they come. That is an occasion to celebrat. Please do not feel superior or inferior because we are all ONE in CHRIST. If we become ONE Orthodox faith will grow in India. If there is LOVE in the Church God will not BLESS US. It is Lord's Wih that we are united and nobody can stop it.
But we will continue to oppose evil doers who still want to divide the Churh because that idea omes from evil thoughts given by Satan and his forces
Thank you
If H.B Thomas was elected or assured the position of Catholicos Designate in MOSC during the 2002 Association today there would have been no Puthencruz society.
Being in MOSC, I don’t claim all our hierarchy are innocent and God fearing. Everybody has got a shot up their sleeve and that is the reason why even creative work doesn’t take place in our church. If our Bishops do follow the constitution and obey the rules and look after their sheep and behave in a dignified manner to Glorify God, why only the members of Jacobite even the Reeth and Marthomites will come back to us.
Apart from our Anthonios Thirumeni all are waiting and soliciting invitation to go abroad as if they can’t live without that. Why can’t they have faith in our Lord and seek his blessing for the development of their diocese and parishes.
I know many people going to churches different from their faith because they like a particular Achen or the people in that church. So in short if collectively any church improves their image, it will attract more people.
It seems that we are becoming a bit too emotional.On Friday, ie 6th August, I got the information that there would not be any at Aluva on 8th and that there would be only a meeting which would be attended by almost all the Bishops and a good crowd. We all know Nelson Mandela. He was imprisoned for a very long period in bad conditions when South Africa was under the rule of whites. Later, when they became independent and Nelson Mandela got released and was chosen to rule the country, there was a press meet where he was asked to explain how he was treted in the prison. Hie reply was," LET BYGONES BE BYGONES ". Don't we have something to learn from this?
Whether Orthodox or Jacobite, faithful can identify good or bad. Times have changed. Leader like HB Thomas Bava has no placein the minds of the laity. No church leader shoud love money more than God. They shoud take care of their sheep. Then God will bless them with people or money or power or whatever God gives. I hope all other bishops take a lesson from HB THOMAS BAVA. But stil I am an admirer of his enthusiasm. But the results are now coming. May God give him guidance
Orthodox TV is playing remarkable role for bringing out latest news in Malankara Orthodx Church. Unfortuately , sometimes they are palying like political parties online. This news ia an example of such kind. Are these type of cheap news agree with christain principles ?
George Kuruvilla Aiyankovil
After reading the editorial of Manorama I was wondering is all these stories to do with Kuttikkattil Thirumeni. Jiji Paul appears to be a journialist of the Antiochya Publications. No wonder he made Kuttikkattil Thirumeni even Catholicos for Seven years.
To be frank enough the reason why Kuttikkattil Thirumeni sided with the Patriarch and gave a tough time to HH Geevarghese II was because he was never consulted or offered the position of Catholicose. We all were aware of this politics. He sphereheaded the Sons of soils issue in our Church. Just like HB Thomas he went on creating problem for the legitimate Catholicos.
there is nothing special in that low strength of people attended the function. thats the maximum they can do even at their central area. what they feel that the people who attend the manjanikkara & manarkadu pally perunnal are all from puthencruz society. they plan for the meeting based on such assumptions.
Thomas pradhaman said one important thing at Aluva, that all people should take care of the persons who took methran pattam at some chayakada (teashops). He himself took the methran pattam at some tea shop. (red kuppayam thaniye eduthittathanennu kelkkunnu)
i fear that, he himself will be declared as a saint in the near future even before he die.
At least he decided to contribute his eyes. ithuvare cheythu koottiya papangal theeran oru vazhi ayee..
Bavayude Kannu Kittunnavanu Aa swabhavam Kittathirunnal Bhagyam.
600 perkku Irikkavunna Auditoriathilum Parisarathumayi 1500 Per undayirunnennu oru Ankamalykkaran Achayan Kandappol paranju.
Hindu Pathrakkar Kallappara Paranjathu Viswasichu Ezhuthy Vittathanu.
10 Peru koodanamenkil Tholy Velutha Zakka Bava Thanne Varanamennu Churukkam.
Dear Readers,
This matter/event is totally belongs to Patriarch faction. I do not understand why Catholicose faction of devalokam commenting and jealous of it.
In simple way to say is that for Patriarch faction they need person as head like H.B. Thomas I to fight/defend with Catholicose faction of devalokam.
I pray to god that Patriarch faction get future head similar to the present catholicose H.B. Thomas I so as to strive and grow in this kind of world.
Regards,
Geogy
Malankaraorthodox.tv is doing a remarkable job by putting up issues like this. Some people think this issue is only a small issue as it was attended by a few people amd we shoudl ignore it.
The issue should be viewed in the light of the preparations made for the event. ThOmas bava's kalpana should be read properly. He wanted this to be the BIGGEST EVER GATHERING. The speakers, teh crowd management, the media, arrangements were all done at the peak. But the call was ignored totally by the faithful.
(Jacobite media)Malankara Syriac Voice said three or four churches were enough to make it 25000. Then why did they igmore your Bava's Call?
This incident is a major milestone in the history of Malankara. It proves beyond doubt that believers will disobey any church leaders (irrespective of his camp) who calls for the division of the Church.
I think the ground for peace is getting ready. The days of unity are near. GOD WILL BLESS US ALL (in both the camps)
I really feel pity for the peson who would receive HB Thomas's eye. Or is this just a gimmick like his usual resigantion drama.
Chandichayan
I have seen the Hindu on Monday, the next day after the meeting.
The Hindu (Local page Page 3, Kochi edition) reported........A spokesman for the Jacobite Church said that around 10,000 people and 20 bishops participated in the programme, spread over two days, starting Saturday.
They quoted the Jacobite spokesman. 10,000 poeple had come, spread over two days. So according to the Jacobite offial spokesman around 10,000 came for the entire programmes.
We know very well that this figure itself was highly exaggerated. Actual presence of people were much below 2,500. That includes all the Bava's men, incuding priests, church leaders, laity leaders etc. So the common people ignored bava's kalpana competely. As Thomas Kuttikandathil said this is a BIG BLOW to THOMAS BAVA.
I'm afraid more darker days are ahead for HB THOMAS BAVA. He would see the faithful deserting him in the last days. Let us pray for Unity of the Church and may Love flourish in the Malankara Church.
This incident was told by journalist friend of mine.
Jacobite Church had issued a press statement for the day. It was an evening meeting attended by a few desk leaders of a newspaper. The responsible person who led the meeting read the list of stories for the next day's paper. As soon as he read the Jacobite statement he commented "Kallan,... Kollan nadakkunnavana... katthiyumayi" .
This person is aHindu and everybody laughed when he said it.
Thomas bava and his media management skills are well-known, But see,.. this is what happened in a news media office. But jacobite leaders think all the media men are his friends and therefore will be abel to handle any problem.
Nammude Babu Paul Achayan Nammude Thomas Bavakkittu Oru Thangu Thangiyirikkunnathu Kandille.
Angerude Pramotion Thadanjathinte Chorukku Aayirikkum.
IAS Achayante Kolam Veendum Kathikkan Pillerodu Parayendy Varumo?
http://www.malankaraorthodox.tv/articles/babu-paul-ias-in-us-syrian.html
Dear Georgy
Thank you very much for your comment. For your information, There is no faction in Malankara Church. The Hon'e SUPREME COURT upheld the 1934 constitution and under the supervsion of the apex court the election to the office of the Malankara Metropolitan was held. Justice Malimut was appointed as the observer and he supervised everything. After the election, Justice Malimut declared Catholocose Marthoma mathews II as the Metropolitan of the Church. Some people who also paid the Observer's fee did not participate and became rebels. Later they registered theselves as group under the Society act. Whatever be their claim about the status of the Patriarch in Malankara, the SC had ruled that the status of the Patriarch was in accordance with the 1934 constitution of the Church.
So I hope you understand that There is only one and only one Malankara Church.
Next about our concern about the meeting held on 8th August in Alwaye:
We are only concerned about the unity of the Orthodox faith and Church in India. We are not concerned about the failure of the Arab churches. We are concened about rebels and extremists damaging the Church in our country. We stand for unity of the believers, we stand for India, our motherland. When the faithful desert the rebel leaders there is joy becasue CHURCH IS CHRIST'S BODY! So we are calling once again for UNITY and LOVE.
Syriac Voice karude Viswasikale Koottathil Nirthanulla abysangal Kandittu Joseph Marthoma Methrachanittu Koduthathu Puthenkurisukarkkittanu Kondathennu Thonnunnallo.
"Moolayil Achanu Padikkunna" Bijuvine Kollam. Piravathu Ninnu Nanmayundakumo!!!
CHANDICHAYANUM AVARACHAAYANUM ELLA CHITTICKUM IVIDE MARAKKATHE KOODUNNUNDALLO....
What I am trying to say is all disputed church must be opened and give rights to majority to administer the church; and allow the both the faction (patriarch & catholicose) to delivery the holy sacraments.
In view of the foresaid, it is not correct to enforce a law/direction to huge mass who are against the faith & thinking of the minority mass. Why should majority suffer? Majority which I am referring is more than 75% & minority 25%. It is not like 55% (majority) & 45% (minority).
So you cannot just show the piece of paper of court verdict and impose/direct the large mass of people for the sake of just minority people’s ideology.
See I am not saying the all deeds of current catholicose of Patriarch faction (H.B. Thomas I) is totally correct. But he is forced to do some steps due to the acts of opponents i.e. catholicose of devalokam. I will not blame H.B. Didimose bava as he is in the old age, but his successor & assistants.
UNITY CANNOT HAPPEN IN SYRAIN ORTHODOX CHURCH AS BOTH THE GROUP’S FAITH AND THINKING ARE IN OPPSITE DIRECTION. IF WE ARE THINKING OF UNITY, THEN WE ALL MUST THINK OF ALL MARTHOMA CHRISTIAN (i.e. Indian Christians) TO BE UNDER ONE UMBRELLA (i.e. whether it is Catholics, CSI, Marthoma, Orthodox, Jacobites, Kaldaya etc…).
For all knowledge Patriarch of Antioch is not taking any money from Patriarch churches in India. Only if the palli pothuyogham decides it is given, else it is spend here itself for good deeds or other church developments. Churches are not individual property; it is owned by the parishners and administered by elected members’ positions called trustee, secretary & committee members, not by Indian bishops or foreign bishops.
BOTTOM LINE IS, CHURCH IN MALANKARA IS RULED BY THE CHURCH ADMINISTRATIVE PEOPLE WHO ARE ELECTED BY PALLI POTHUYOGHAM, NOT BY ANY BISHOPS (whether it is Indian/Syrian/Roman). BISHOPS HAVE ONLY SPIRITUAL RIGHTS AND TO DO HOLY SACRAMENTS.
Regards,
Geogy
Dear Readers,
Please be concened about rebels and extremists damaging the catholicose devalokam only; why be concerned with other church activities.
If the deeds are wrong in the eyes of GOD, GOD shall answer for the same.
Regards,
Geogy
Dear Readers,
(PART-1)
I see people raise 1934 constitution to be imposed in all churches in Malankara as it was Supreme Court verdict. Further to the Supreme Court verdict it is now redirected to lower court which is now ongoing.
See nobody is objecting here to implement 1934 constitution in Malankara church. Those churches which whole heartedly accept this constitution is implementing the same and others do not. Please do not tell the history of the court cases. WE know how the court cases are run. Here, no cases are filed by Patriarch faction against any churches. Patriarch faction is always the defenders. It is an openly accepted fact that catholicose of devalokam is eying on the properties of Jacobite churches. They don’t have any peace of mind unless they close down the churches of Jacobite faction. Is this the unity we are talking about.
It is also the fact that major cases in lower court are won by the patriarch faction, later catholicose faction appealed in the Supreme Court and got the verdict in their favor which they proclaim. This is totally because of the highly influential people of catholicose devalokam faction. Even now catholicose devalokam are the most influential & money wise concrete people when compared to patriarch faction.
Be reminded that verdict of Supreme Court also says that Malankara Churches is a part of Universal Syrian Orthodox Church of Antioch.
I myself belong to a disputed church in Ernakulam (i.e. church is in case). Praises to god, church is not closed now, but it is running smoothly with the consent of both patriarch & catholicose faction. There are two services, in the morning catholicose faction and second service the patriarch faction. Salary to the both the side priests are given by the church. The church is been administered by Patriarch faction as they are majority in number (almost 75%). All should understand in this church both side i.e. patriarch & catholicose faction bishops can come and deliver the mass or do the sacrament. At least this should be a minimum role model of the disputed churches.
Dear Mr Georgy
You are arguing for the sake of the self-styled rebel metropolitan. You do not understand what a faction is. There is no Devalokam faction or Devalokam Bava. There is ONE and ONLY ONE CHURCH in MALANKARA, administered according to the 1934 constitution. But there is one rebel group in the Malankara Church.
When Justice Malimut was appointed as Observer for the smooth conduct of the election to the office of the Malankara Metropolitan after the Supreme Court upheld the 1934 constitution, the apex court also ruled that the election cannot be challenged in any court of law. These rebles who were demanding an election in the SC did not participate and formed another constitution (?) according to Society Act. They have ABSOLUTELY NO SAY IN THE AFFIRAS OF MALNKARA CHURCH. By forming another constitution, they are OUT of the CHURCH.
NOW YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT MAJORITY AND MINORITY. Listen again
Let me tell you about a case which was heard by the Bombay High Court a few decades back.
In a village, in the state of Maharashtra, a Hindu temple was constructed by using the funds raised by the local people. The temple, a common property of the villagers, was administered by a committee selected from the villagers and it continued to be so for many years.
It so happened that there was a massive conversion the village and almost all of the villagers became Buddhists. So the villagers met and declared the temple as a BUDHA VIHAR. There were only a few Hindus left in the village (around 5 percent).
The Hindus who remained in their faith met and said their worshiping place was constructed as a temple and it could not be converted into a Buddhist temple for whatever reasons because there are still Hindus in the village. But those who had converted from Hinduism argued that they spent money and constructed it. They said, “Now we have changed our faith. We, the majority have unanimously (95%) decide to make it a Buddhist temple.”
Finally, the case was heard by Bombay High Court. The Court ruled in the minuscule minority's favour. The court said "The objective for constructing and maintaining the temple remains so long as a single person remains in the faith. Those who have changed the faith also have left the faith and therefore they have no say in the affairs of the Hindu temple.
Now, What have to you say about your MAJORTY theory, Mr Georgy?
THOMAS BAVA"S THEORY
Biggest gathering in his 'CHURCH'
<2500 people ha ha ha ha
Mr Georgy is also worried that the rebels and extremists are damaging Didimos Bava. HH Bava is not worried about anything. He is a servant of God who lives in prayer unlike the ‘politrickal’ HB THOMAS who play all dramas. (Now his own followers taught him a lesson on Sunday (8 August 2010). More are yet to come
We are not concerned about any other Churches. But we are concerned that there are some rebels in our own church, who are fortunately day by day losing their strength. (Like their ARAB masters)
May I request everybody to read HB Thomas Bava's Kalpana to know the gravity of the discussions here. HB Thomas Bava had urged each and everybody to come to Alaye on 8th August as HB wanted the event to be the 'BIGGEST GATHERING' so far held.
Joyce, if you hav removed the Kalpana, please put it once agsin as soem of the new visitors may not have seen it
Thanks
Patriachical faction filed no cases:
Has Veerappan filed any cases against anyone? All the cases have been against Veerappan, Therefore, can Veerappan be considered a HOLY MAN?
Imposing 1934 constitution on Chuches:
There is no question of imposing a constitution on any church. A church is governed by that constitution, rather it is a system of governace. A few people, even the majority of the local church members, cannot decide that they are no longer governed by it. The local membes can only govern the church property but they are not shareholders.
This is in contrast with the Jacobite society 2002 constitution (?) where the local church members can decide to join any church or change the affiliation or even chaneg their faith. If one local church, by its majority, decides to follow Pentacostal faith, the Jacobite leaders cannot stop it. They choose to convert it into a mosque if they decide. If you analyse the Jacobite law, you will find that Vicar, Bishop, Chuch leaders (even Christ) are all ' Palli-Thozhilalikal'. I hope sooner or later, Jacobite Church members will be able to test the stregth of their constitution.
Indian constitution is not imposed on its citizens. But we have given ourselves this constitution when we became a Republic. Likewise when the church was founded, we voluntarily accepted to follow it. STHAAPANODDESHAM AANU PRADHANAM. ENTHINU VENDI EE PALLI STHAPICCHU...athanu karyam. You cannot change the constitution as you wish. The constitution can only be amended by a competent authority. In the case of the Malankara Church, the competent authority is the Malankara Association. If Jacobite have the majority, as they claim, they can amend the constitution to add whatever they want. [These people ran away when justice Malimut supervised the election of Malankara Metrolpolitan, becasue they know their actual strength would be put to test]
Now after the failure of the ALWAYE GREAT SAMMELAN, media, police, District administration, Malankara Church and sister churches, other faiths, politicians, and GENERAL PUBLIC all know the real strength of the Jacobite leaders. But the Jacobiet leaders will continue to live like ostriches, hiding heads in the sand.
Georgy says, CHURCH IN MALANKARA IS RULED BY THE CHURCH ADMINISTRATIVE PEOPLE WHO ARE ELECTED BY PALLI POTHUYOGHAM, NOT BY ANY BISHOPS.
Ruling?.... For ruling you need to have some laws.... We are discussing about that, Georgy sir. The Malankara Church is ruled by the PEOPLE according to 1934 constition, which was upheld by the SUPREME COURT OF INDIA. Whatever power belonged to Patriach or catholicose or memebrs in the Church, is only as per the 1934 constitution. Governance does not mean that they are shareholders. They govern as per the law.
[God also has set the 10 commandments. We are told "THERE IS NO FREEDOM WITHOUT THE LAW"]
Rebels, have only formed a society. They claim to have enacted a constitution (?) ...to fool its members. TIME WILL TEST ITS STRENGTH.
Per Reni the Jacobites are the rebel group. Per H.H. Patriarch, the constitutional head of Malankara Orthodox Church, the Orthodox faction is an excommunicated group (refer H.H's latest Bull on Gurgan church bishops). Now we are confused. Who is right in this matter? Reni or H.H. Patriarch?
Saju,USA
Reni, It is refreshing to see your comments. I also pray for peace and unity. By the way, readers should really take the time to understand this one particular fact. No matter what "Kakshi" or "society" we are ALL _Jacobites_ and we are ALL _Orthodox_
Dear all
Some people claim Devalokam faction/Bava are after the properties of Jacobites!. This not the real fact. The First And Second Samudaya Cases were stated by Partriarch faction in Malnakara and in Both cases The Partriarch faction Failed.Here You Must remember more than 70 years of war/battlefield the Antiochean Partriarch and his Suppoerters did not reach anywhere.When They felt they lost everything/have nothing stand as their own, The Partriarch accepted MOSC and its Leadership/heirarchy without any conditions(1958 Peace and reconciliation) for them to have something to sit and relax. After 12 years The Patriarch and his allies in Malankara Resurfaced with their Heretic Teaching/Heresy,subsequent ex-communication(without observing the Canons) in order to oust Augen 1(Bava) and his Bishops and get back everything to Antiochean Partriarch. After Partriarch consecrated Mar Paulose Baselios II As Catholicose,(Which was not as per Malankara Suriani Kristiani Association Recommendation/Synod recommendation) and Three Bishops (including Current H.B.Thomas I,)The MOSC started Filing cases as these people are not having any place in Malankara Sabha/church.
Since Antioch Partriarch,and his counterparts in Malankara violated the 1934 constituition,H.B Thomas Group has nothing to claim from MOSC or its properties as they are not the right Bishops.They are ribels now the ribels formed their own society because of Court verdict to conduct Malankara suriyani Kristiani Association,as per the case filed by them(H.B. Thomas I group)When they knew they are not gaining anything out of their petition they excluded /execused themselves formed a new society in 2002.
So how come they still claim property /churches of MOSC?
MOSC still waiting for Unity and Peace With Antiochean Partriarch. He has been Misguided and mislead by H.B. Thomas I since 1995 supreme court vedict. now who is violating court decisions, verdicts/judgements?
Once you study the court verdicts/Judgements you can judge youselves who are wrong or who are guilty/offensive!
Sam pariyarathu
It is very interesting to read how Mr. Reni manipulating the entire reality in a new perspective. I believe he is a Sunday school teacher in one of the Orthodox Churches, because I myself closely monitoring how the entire Orthodox Church manipulating the system for the last couple of decades. (THAT DOESN’T MEAN THAT JACOBITE CHURCH IS 100% PERFECT “CHETTANTE ANIYAN KONTHAKKURUPPU”). How the IOC change the Church history after the Supreme Court verdict and how their eminent HISTORIANS attempting to “TOUCH” AD 52 AND THOMA SLEEHA. Great John Achen illustrating that the Malankara Church was started having contact with Middle Eastern Church only in 15th Century. Any way, HISTORIAN himself agreed that, that is more than 500 years history and we don’t think that is a short period either. Because the largest Church in Kerala, the Roman Catholics, doesn’t even have that long history in our land. (BUT THEY AND THEIR HISTORIANS ALSO ATTEMPTING TO “TOUCH” AD 52 AND THOMA SLEEHA). Mr. Manu has to carefully read the Great work of Changampuzha’s “VAZHAKKULA”. In that poem, the feudal lord was harvesting the Vazhakkula from the Pulayan’s land and our ‘MAHAAN’ Manu was thinking the relationship between IOC and SOC has to be like that. MONE KONASEKHARAAA………
Dear MTV,
Can you organise some 'Chavaliar' (not chevalier) position to some exemplenory personalities who vomit their nonsense in this blog. May be Gurgan can manage a few. You need to give one each to Geogy, Terry and Mathew. The law points presented by Geogy, Oh my God 'thalley petta thalla sahikkilla" what know_ledge. Need to give some thing like what Babu Paul got.
MR.VAYALIPARMBAN..
EDOO THNIKKOO NANAMILLEDOOO ENGENE AZHUTHAN...
######Vayaliparamban said...
Late Phiiphose Thomas (Mar Philipose Eusebius) was Senior to me at U.C College where he was a student. He came with me to meet Late Kuttikkattil Thirumeni at Thrikkunathu Seminary once. When we reached seminary, Thirumeni was lying on his bed and an Achen went and told Thirumeni some students have come to see him. He called us inside and asked where are you from. Phiiphose Thomas suddenly replied 'from Pathanamthitta', and instantly Kuttikkattil Thirumeni replied, 'appol thekkarra alley'. He didn't bother to even bless us and didn't show any hospitality or didn't even ask why did you come?
August 10, 2010 3:05 PM#############
DEAR VAYALIPARMBAN:- IF YOU WANT TO KNOW THE HOSPITALITY OF ST ATHANASISUS THE GREAT OF ALVA, PLS READ THE BIOGRAPHY OF PUTHEN KAVU THIRUMNEI, IN THAT PUTHENKAU THRIUMENI CLEARLY MENTIONED HOWMANY TIMES HE USED TO GO TO ATHANASIUS THIRUMNEI EVEN THE BOTH BELONGS TO TWO FACTION. PUTHEKAVIL THIRUMENI REALL ENJOYED ST ATHANAISUS THRIUMENIS HOSPITALIY. I POINTED OUT BECAUSE THIS IS ONLY WRITEN RECORD I SEE ABOUT ST ATHANSASIUS IN MOSC FACTION. AND THIS MENTIONED BY PUTHEN KAVIL THRIUMENI WHO WAS THE PET ANS SPRITUAL SON OF VATTESRIL THRIUMENI. IF ANY BODY HAS DOUBT PLS CHECK THAT BOOKS. IF ANY WANTS THAT COPIES PLS MAIL ME TO vinuppathrose@gmail.com. i can send this pdf copy of that wrtings. So i only want advice vayaliprammban if you know the hospitality of Valiya thriumeni just read it out. I know late eusabious thriumeni and i had close intraction wiht HG. I never heard such comment about valiya thirumeni from his mouth. Any I advice Mr valiyapraban to read the BIO graphy of purthenkavil thriumeni to know about hospitality given to laymens and methran of Methran faction in thoses days...take care shlomo...
Dear Saju
You are confused of What? The Syrian orthodox synod/Partriarch in Antioch/Damascus has nothing to do with MOSC Bava or Synod In Malankara. The MOSC Synod or Bava cannot be excommunicated by Partriarch of Antioch/Damascus. The antioch Partriarch has violated all rules(1934 constituition) and canons of MOSC.
The Antioch Partriarch has only authority in Jacobite church in Malankara or his allies who are not part of MOSC.
It is Not St.Peter who sent St.Thomas in Malankara.St.Thomas was guided by Holy Spirit and he went to Persia first and from there to India(Malankara).Christ gave His Authority to his 12 Apostles not to a single Apostle to lead his Church on earth.
The confusion/problems in Malankara was created By Antioch Partriarch and his allies here for self glorification,power,position!
First antioch Partriarch should correct himself!
The kingdom heaven is righteousness,Peace And Joy in Holy spirit!Has these qualities are there With co called "Sthuthi Chovvakapetta suriyani sabha", PC Society(jacobites),Antiochean(syrian) Partriarch in Damascus or MOSC in Malankara ?
let us stand for the kingdom of God! then peace and unity will be there in Church!
Valyaparamban Chetta,
What is sense and what is nonsense? Praising the Orthodox and humiliating the Jacobite Church is sense to IOC and praising the Jacobite church and humiliating IOC is the real sense to SOC. If you want the first thing, just clearly mention that and we will help you to accomplish your dream. The conflict between the two churches are not ideological and it is just the personal rivalries between the leaders in the church, even from the very beginning. BUT THE CLEVER BISHOPS WERE ABLE TO INTELLECTUALIZE AND RATIONALIZE THEIR ACTIONS AND GIVE AN IDEOLOGICAL COLOR TO THEIR ACTIONS. If you look at Mannuthy Milithiose, Muvattupuzha Athanasiose (both Orthodox) and Thengumthara Ramban (Jacobite, now a bishop)you can see it. But there are VERY FEW good leaders in both Churches, but unfortunately NO BODY WANT THEM.
Dear Saju
Thank you.
We have a constitution for our Church and everything is governed by that law. I think you are clear about it.
Patriarch or the Catholicose or the members of the Church are all governed by that constitution. An organisation cannot function without a law. Upholding the validity of this constitution, the Supreme Court of India said there is one and only one Malankara Church. Whatever power was bestowed on HH Patriarch in the SC ruling was only ACCORDING TO 1934 CONSTITUTION. The patriarch can interfere in Indian Church only according to the 1934 CONSTITUTION of the church. HH Patriarch cannot overrule the 1934 constitution.
The rebel Catholicose in India, as they claim, was anointed by the Patriarch. Was the REBEL CATHOLOCOSE consecrated according to the 1934 constitution? OBVIOUSLY NOT. We cannot approve of such actions which spoil the future of the Indian Church. So what about his excommunicating us.
What most Indian realise is this: Patriarch and his team are ARABS who are basically not interested in the growth or future of the Indian Christianity. Their only interest is keeping the Indian Church under their rule forever. WE have a CHRIST GIVEN RESPONSIBILITY about 120 crore people of India. We have to look towards our future because Christ commanded ALL NATIONS, ALL TRIBES will know GOD. Will the Arabs do this mission in India? Will the people of India (120 crore people) trust Arabs? Did Antioch Church got some plans for Indian Christianity?
Look at this FACT: BLIND CANNOT LEAD ANYONE. The Arab Church is almost extinct and they will put us in the same fate if they are above the LAW. If you have more questions about the ARAB CHURCH read National Geographic magazine cover story. http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/06/arab-christians/belt-text
Most problems in Malankara happen because we are too much concerned about the past than FUTURE. The future generation will ignore all these issues which have been keeping us backward. If you have doubt wait for another decade, your own children will tell you.
We have highest regard for HH Patriarch but we cannot allow our Indian Church to go astray. We have concern for the future of the Indian Christianity.
Do you know the status of the REBEL MALANKARA group? Study the constitution of the Antioch church. Then you will know whether they are sons or slaves. The rebel group in Malankara has NO VOTE and NO SAY in the affairs of the Antiochian Church. Only an ARAB can become a PATRIACH. Is that not slavery?
We will approve the Patriarch if HH is ready to go by the constitution which governs all of us. OTHERWISE A BIG NO. We will obey CHRIST more than anyone else. We are not in spiritual bondage BECAUSE CHRIST FREED US. I hope you will understand.
Now I think I must answer Terry:
Terry says I have manipulated history of the Church, but failed to point out even a single instance. He also blames that the Orthodox Church manipulates The SYSTEM for the last couple of decades. I do not understand what he meant by ‘manipulating the system’. Terry, be clear when you say something.
Regarding his observation that I am a Sunday school teacher, I have not even completed 7th class in Sunday school. Then, how can I teach children? God has not called me for that. The only book that I owe on church history is KERALA CHARITHRAM by Padmabhooshan A. Seedharamenon. I suggest every Orthodox Christian family should own a copy of this book, published by DC books. This is not entirely a book on Church history, but you will be amazed to know that how much it agrees with the history as taught by the Orthodox Church. I was really pained to learn that the Orthodox did not even say a word of condolence when this eminent and impartial historian of Kerala passed away last month.
Probably, Terry, the self-styled analyst, has read only one book on Church history—a book written by John Achen and that too not properly. Malankara Church had a very good relation with Persian church for many many centuries. But the church came into contact with Rome and Antioch only in the last 500 years. They used it to enslave the free Church. This fact has been corroborated by many independent historians. For Mr. Terry’s info, it was not John Achen who said it first. Terry says 500 years is not a short period. So what? Does it justify their actions? If they can be justified, it is just as reasonable to argue for the continuance the British rule in India because they too had ruled India for centuries and also unified India. Political colonies were freed in the last century, Spiritual colonies still exist in the world, and God will free spiritual colonies in this century. Antioch, Rome, American pentas, Canterbury,…… all can pack off soon.
Thank you Terry for your patience
CPM SPONSRED PROGRAMME?
There were only less than 2500 people at the Alwaye meeting on 8th August 2010.
But when Patriarch was India, there was a meeting in Ernakulam. There was a good crowd at that meeting in which top CPM leaders also were on stage. HH Zhacha bava advised bilievers that they can join and work in CPM and Pinarayi Vijayan presented HH Bava with a copy of the Das capital. Many other political leaers like Ommen Chandy were present. At that the mood in the Jacobiet camp was upbeat and they declard without waiitng any longer they would take hold of Thrikunnathu seminary.
In Ernakulam, Immediately after this 'successful' meeting, there was a talk in the city that it was a CPM sponsored meeeting. The crowd assembled showed its true colour...they had jeered at Malayala Manorama Managing Editor Mr Philip Mathew through out his speech. Though organisares were repeatedly asking the crowd to stop such calls, they ignored it. Annoucement like "it is the nature of the Orthodox faction" fe on deaf ears.
It is true that lots of CPM people must have been there since top leaders like Pinarayi Vijayan was speaking.
After the miserably lost meetiing in Alwaye (8th August 2010) there is evry reason to suspect that the meeting in Ernakulam when HH ZACHA BAVA was present wa a largely CPM sponspored meeting....
CPM is NOT very much interested in the Jacobites now because opportunistic leaders of the Jacobites are now trying to please the Congress. They wil switch according to the situation... Are these leaders guided by our Lord? I do not think they believe in God. They belive in money power, muscle power, political power, but NOT in God
Puthenkurisukarude Meetingil Aalu Koodanamenkil Velutha Tholiyulla Karutha Kuppayamitta Aarenkilum Venam!!!
Arun
The moment you said about Thenguntahra Ramban, i understood matters well.........If Thengunthara Ramban gave money to become a bishop, he'll make it too... No need to say further because I am close to that family and know everything behind the screen.
Another piece of advise to Arun: WRITE YOUR MESSAGE CLEAR. Make sense of it
Chandichaya
Athellam vere party aanu.
Anne kettatha pinne Aluva meeting kazhinjappam karyam vyakthamayi..
Dear rinsam 2002,
Malankara Church is ready to give due respect and honour to His Holiness Patriaach provided he agrees to abide by the 1934 constitution. HH Patriarch cannot overrule the 1934 constitution. The church is very clear about it.
Malankara Chuch do not approve of any factions in the Church. But a rebel group which has been formed under HB Thomas Bava is demanding a division. The Church will never approve of it under any circumstances.
Dear Ravi Goerge
I don't think that you properly understood what I wrote. The Partriarch L/L Yakoob III, violated the 1934 constituition,which he has no right or authority.The MOSC laes cannot be flouted by Antiochen Partriarch.However tat was exactly L/L H.H. Yakoob III did in Seventies.
Even in the consecration Augen I bava in 1964 Yakoob III flawed the constuitition and canons.
Now This exactly the ribels, PC society claims!!The deception tricks of Antioch partriarch are not yet known members of MOSC
Dear All- Spiritual spremacy of antiochean partriarchs and Other orthodox heads:
The Antiochean Partriarch got spiritual supermacy of Churches in Antioch/Damascus and not in Malankara!
Christ did not appoint or anoint St.Peter as chief/Prime head of apostles.
Christ clearly told disiples/apostles that his diciples are servants each other and they should humble themselves!
St.Paul (Saul) and Barnabas were ordained in Antioch(acts13:1-2) not by St.Peter or his successors.
In early centuries church leaders were equal, all heads were having same position and spiritual power before King/Emperor Constaitain became Christian.
St.Peter did not mention anything in his epistles anywere about the The Church Government like(Laity/faithful,deacons, Elder/Presbyter,Oversear(Bishops)
If saint Peter had any supermacy It should have been mentioned in in his epistles/or in Gospel according to St.Mark as he was the disciple of St.Peter.
St.Peter Called himself as an Elder among other elders in Church(1Peter5:1)
The first synod in Jerusalem was presided by st.James and st.James was the author of Thaksa( first Liturgy in H.qurbana)
Christ did not give any keys of kingdom of Heaven to st.Peter alone.,or the power to tie and untie sins!
Jesus christ has the key for city of David,the New Jerusalem.Jesus Christ opens and no one shuts.Jesus shuts and no one pens(Rev.3:8)
During persecution of early church Jacob Burdana(of antioch) was ordained /consecrated in Alexandrea.This does not mean Jacob Burdana or current antiochean Partriarchs are under apostolic throne/authority of Coptic Church In Alexandrea.
like wise MOSC Prelates were consecrated by Antochean Partriarchs during British/European rule and Persecution of malankara church by foreign missionaries.This does not mean that MOSC prelates are under authority of Anioch forever!
Jesus Christ did many things with his disciples/and taught them (disciples) after his reurrection and before his acension in heaven(acts1:2-4) .During these forty days what ever happened/what Jesus did was not clearly mentioned in Bible.
because of some versus in Mathew(16:16-19) and John (21:15-18)St.Peter cannot be modern Moses of New Israel or assume Any apostolic Throne in earth/power.
Peter was only a representative of the disciples that Jesus saw Peter in Mathew 16:18-19and John 21:18-19
Authority and position are two different things.St.Peter had a significant position among apostles!
St.Peter was rebuked by st.Paul in face by face(Galatians2:11-13)
Dear Jacobites brothers you are unneccessirly crying for Throne in Antioch as well as making untrue statements and heretic teachings!
CHANDY CHAAYANUM AVARRACHAYANUM VICHAARICHALEE MALANKARA SABHAYIL SAMADHAANAM UNDAKUKAYULLU...ACAHAYNMARRE KARYAMAYITTONNU IRANGU....CHANDYCHAYAN MEEN PIDICKAN CHOONDA IDAN POYITTU VANNO? AMERICAYIL LICENSE ILLATHE CHOONDA ITTAL AKATHU POKUM...IPPOL NATTILUM....
Dear Vinu,
So Puthenkavil Thirumeni went to meet Valiya Thirumeni for receiving hospitality. Do you know the unwritten efforts put in by Puthenkavil Thirumeni for peace and he realised the stumbling block is none other than the so called Valiya Thirumeni and all his visits was to make him feel that we care him. But the moment Valiaya Thirumeni was never consulted for Catholicos position the trouble started. There are lot of unwritten things which you must have never heard.
For Eusebius Thirumeni to tell you all that happened during his life, you would have been his secretary for life!
Human beings in their life do good and bad things. So when a person do a good thing appreciate it and when the same person does a bad thing tell him that you don't like it. The moment you start justifying the wrong doing your trouble starts and that is the whole issue with your lot.
Alwaye meeting is the largest ever gathering of Jacobites ennathu sariyaanu. Karanam mumbu Patriarch vannapol motham koodiyathu marxist-kar ayirunnallo.
Ippo koodiya <2500 per ningalude aalukal maathram.
Patrach bava Das capital padicchu kazhinjo? Adutha thavan varumbol Dialectical materialism, thudangiya karygal parayum. Rate kuracchu pallikalilum pokum. Bible-il illattha nalla karynagal Das Capital-il chilappol undakum
ELLAVARUM ANGOTTUM INGOTTUM CHELI VAARI ERINJU THEERNOOO????????
riza_sweet23
That's how some interaction happen. Don't worry.
In the olden days people used to arrange fighters to settle scores. But intellectual discussions on the net are good, though sometimes it may come down to the level of abuses.
I think we progress by exchanging ideas and arguments. Some people are active participants, some others observers. We need all.
I don’t agree that, we make any progress by such discussions. All discussions everywhere end up finally in abuse.
We shouldn’t be treating Jacobites as enemies.
Finally one day, some capable leaders will arise, and we may unite. By this type of discussions we are only sowing seeds of mistrust and making unity distant.
Unruly comments on every news, is very naïve. That should not stop us from calling a spade a spade. However the way to put forth the views should be more professional.
If we were united, we could have brought lots of Marthomites and Reethu back to our fold. Cases ending, our focus could have shifted more spiritual and faith related areas. However we are just slinging mud on each other and not thinking with a vision.
Many, including me, just type something out of sudden emotion and later regret.
The jacobite communities pin downs any single voice from the IOC members. Layman to Layman contacts are utmost necessary to bring down mutual mistrust, like jacobite parishes visiting IOC parishes, joint masses, meetings, interactions etc.
Thru internet, since no one reveals, their real identity, everyone has the tendency to project their machismo qualities. This should stop and real human to human interactions should start.
Tats all and bear with my lecture.
Dear Jeevan
In this age of Greed and idolatory, of Power and Position I don't think there are capable people of unity in church feud in Malankara as now two distinct/distant sections of orthodox church are there .
Jacobites went too far from christianity,They (the heirarchy) plays all dirty politics tricks,and game including Mafia and gundaism in Church Feud.
At the same time there extremists in Mosc who are against Unity.
Even as divided people of orthodox church,both divisions/factions can behave in a peaceful way to show the other people/relegeons in kerala that they(Jacbite/orthodox) are christians brothers living in peace and harmony!
Only God Can change the attitude/gesture of people. We can Pray for that.
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