Thursday, August 26, 2010

വൈദികര്‍ക്ക് ഓര്‍ത്തഡോക്സ് സെമിനാരി വിദ്യാഭ്യാസം അനിവാര്യമോ?


29 comments:

Rinu Vettiyar said...

Vaidheekarkku Seminary Padanam Nirbandhamanu ennanu ente arivu, ennal chila avasarangalil seminary vidhyabhyasam illathavare vaidheekar aakunnathu sabhayil innu puthuma allatha karyamanu. adhyathmika karyanagl Parishudha sunnahadhosinu vittu kodukkunnathanu nallathu, Blogil churcha chaiyenda vishyamalla ithu.

Dear MTV,

Malankara Orthodox Sabhayil Madhyama rangathu 1-)0 sthanathanu MTV, ennal MTV yude pravarthanam Sabhaye vimarshikkuvan mathramayi othungaruthu, aavishyamillatha karyangalil vivadhangal undakkan palapozhum sramikkarunund, Malankara sabhayil oru mattathinanu ellavarum parishramikkendathu, allathe thirumenimarude kuttangalum kuravukalum Pothu vedhiyil chithreekarichu swentham sabhaye nanam keduthunnathil valiya arthamonnumilla. Vimarshanangal parayan aarkum avakashamund ennal sariyaya vedhikalil thurannu parayan thayyarakanam.

Blog churchakal mathrame evide nadakkununllu athu aarudeyenkilum sradhayil peduthukayo, enthu mattamano vendathu athu chaiyuvvan sadhikkathidatholam kalam ithu oru parajayamanu, sabhaye nashippikkan alla sabhaye valarthananu nammal sramikendathu. Sabhaye kadichu keeri nilkkuvan nilkkunna chennayikkalude munpil ellin kashnam ittu kodukkunnathupoleyanu. plze orkuka

George said...

The subject is something on which a healthy debate is required. We must recall that there was a time when a formal education system was not there for those entering priesthood. The only criterian was the CALL and nothing else. The circumstances under which Pambady Thirumeni realised his CALL is known to everyone. But as days progressed, a system came up and a clause is provided in the constitution too. Here, we must consider a fact that the previous practice we followed had a Gurukulam charactor and it had its own advantages. Ever since the new system came into existance, the Seminary education got a prfessional touch and the boys who join seminary started their seminary study as a professional exercise. This is dangerous. Most of the illness our Church now face has some relation to this professionalism. So, the ordination without seminary education should not be snubbed as bad. But, it should not be treated as a means of back door entry. If a systematic analysis is carried out , it may come out that seminary trained priests are less obedient to senior Bishops because they rely more on their acquired knowledge. In short, what I suggest is that we must strengthen our seminary education by supplementing it with the old malpan style education so that the young priests shall not be too much library oriented.They should come down to the true open realities outside the four walls of the seminary.What I mean is that the seminary life should not be over professional.
###George Joseph###

John Marettu, Kochi said...

Aluvayile Short Coursil Polum Poorna Samayam Pankedukkanja Aalkku Bava Thirumeni Pattam Koduthu ennu Kelkkunnu.

Kalyanam Kazhichu Kazhinju Puthenkurisil Poyi Pattametta Chengannoor karanu Ephiphanios Thirumeni Kathanar Pattam Koduthu Ennum Kelkkunnu.

Iny Enthokke Kelkkendyum Kanendyyum Varumo!!!

Rinu Vettiyar said...

Mr. John Marettu, Kochi


Kalyanam Kazhichu Kazhinju Puthenkurisil Poyi Pattametta Chengannoor karanum Ephiphanios Thirumeni Kathanar Pattam Koduthu Ennum thankal paranja aalude name paranjal valare upakaramayirunnu

aaranu aa mahan ennu ariyamallo?

Malankara sabha makkale ningal evide angottumingottum parasparam cheli variyerinju kondirunno? Puthenkurishile chekluthanmar avasanam Devalokathu Palli vechal polum ariyilla

Malankara sabhayile Thirumenimarum, almaya prathinidhikalum evide poyennu oru pidiyumillallo

Malankara sabhayude nilapadu enthennu vykathamakkathe enthinanu adhikarathinte appakashnam nunanju nilkkunnathu, Thantedathode parayendathu parayenda samayathu parayan vayyenkil erangipokanam
allathe sabhaye thakarkkan sramikkunnavarkku maunanuvadham nalkunna ee pani evide avasanippikkanam.
Valare vishamam ullathu kondu parayunnathanu

sampariyarathu said...

DearAll, There are areas/places of shortage of priests,or seminary educated priests are not willing to serve due to enough pay/salary or comfortable accommodation
recently A priest In U.S. openly critizized the Church heirarchy that priests in America are milkedby/exploited by church heirarchy and laity. They do'nt get sufficient pay for their service .This was published in church Media.Another Priest said,that they have education of Graduate level and then seminary education and they do not get proper reward for priestly services.They could have gone to Gulf countries after Plus2 education and earned more money!
since these are the cases with seminary educated priests, there are nothing wrong in ordaining priests(after shorterm courses) to serve in areas of scarcity,and poor wages/working conditions, and weak parishes in remote area,whereby some one can serve as free or take it as missionary service! Even in Kerala,especially in northen part diocese(Bethery) ,where scarcity of priests are,ordination of priests take place after short term courses!
There is no need for critiszing church heirarchy in this respect!
The 12 apostles Christ did'nt have any secondary education as they were fishermen,and tax collectors and ordinary laities.Only Apostle Paul had higher education! we should not forget that!

dooley said...

How can His Beatitude Mar Milithios, Their Graces Mar Severios & Mar Ephrem complain about the consecration of 'Mar' Moses Goorgan when they follow the same indiscipline by ordaining two deacons outside of their jurisdiction? They should not complain about the Church being indisciplined if the Hierarchs cannot follow the discipline of the Church as it is written in the Canons & Constitution of the Holy Church. Does this action show any regard or love for Christ and His Church? Blatant disregard to the canons, Blatant disregard for the Constitution, Blatant disregard to the previous decisions/discussions of the Holy Synod. It is a 'free for all' in the Malankara Church. GOD SAVE THE CHURCH!

rajanthomas said...

Dear All
Seminary Education is very good. However Most Seminarians or theological students see that Profession as a Good Daily Bread Earnings or A high Position in The Community or Church.They don't show respect their Divine Vocation/profession.They become like scribes/Pharisees of Jesus's time.Most of the seminarians after completing their education prefer to serve in Rich/wealthy Parishes or choose to live and serve in cities /towns . They do not like to serve in rural areas/remote areas especially the poor or weak orthodox faithful.Most of them do not prefer Mission field works or any service to the needy/poor.Jesus Taught his disciples that he came to serve the mankind ant not to be served
The seminary Education must be minimum reserved for 30% for mission feild priests 40% for Parish Priests(Married priests)30% for Monastic(daira) Priests etc etc

At the same time in case of shortage of prists/emergency or situation arises the church heirarchy can use students of Thrikkunnathu seminary/St.Paul's Mission board etc
The fudamental or basic quality is to be observed in priest training is The Vision and Mission attitude of trainees in Seminaries. Most of the Seminarians from Kottayam Orthodox theological seminary behave like ordinary laymen.This has to be changed.
Barnabas thirumeni should obey bava thirumeni!There is an young priest(Born and brought up in U.S.living in new york who has studied and completed Seminary education in U.S.A)was ordained by L/L.Makarios thirumeni.This young priest has not yet given a parish administration by Barnabas thirumeni.
This type of attitude of our Bishops should also to be changed!

It is Not syllabus of education Which matters/It is The Qualities,behavior and Gesture of Priests as shepherd of flocks,and their mission and vision we have look up or care in training of priests!

Joe V. said...

"Ever since the new system came into existance, the Seminary education got a prfessional touch and the boys who join seminary started their seminary study as a professional exercise" .. really?? its sad how we just stereotype. My experience is that all those who took the effort and studied in seminary has grown in Christ and His teaching! I humbly but totally disagree with that statement

Rev.Fr.James Kuttykandam said...

വൈദീകരെ തെരെഞ്ഞെടുക്കുന്നതിന് ഇന്ന് സെമിനാരി വിദ്യാഭ്യാസം ആവശ്യമാണോ ചോദ്യം ചോദ്യമാണ്. പക്ഷേ നാഗപ്പൂര് സെമിനാരി വിദ്യാഭ്യാസം പൂര്ത്തീകരിച്ച വൈദീകരെ കുറിച്ച് സഭയുടെ ഇടവകകളുടെ അഭിപ്രായം എന്താണ്അപ്പത്തേയും വീഞ്ഞിനേയും ക്രിക്കറ്റ് ബാറ്റിനോടും ബോളിനോടും ഉപമിച്ച് ക്ലാസ്സ് എടുത്ത വീരന്മാരായ വൈദീകരുടെ സെമിനാരി വിദ്യാഭ്യാസം പുനപരിശോധിക്കുകയോ കോട്ടയത്തെ സെമിനാരിയില് വീണ്ടും 5വര്ഷത്തെ സെമിനാരി വിദ്യാഭ്യസം വീണ്ടും നല്കുകയോ ചെയ്യണം. സെമിനാരിയിലെ കഞ്ഞിയും അവിടെ നടമാടുന്ന സെമിനാരി രാഷ്ടീയവും ചുടലപിണക്കങ്ങളും സെമിനാരിപഠനം തന്നെയെന്ന് അഭിമാനിക്കാം. മേല്പട്ടക്കാരെ തിരഞ്ഞെടുക്കുബോഴും എടുത്തപ്പോഴും വിദ്യാഭ്യാസ മാനദണ്ഡങ്ങള്ക്ക് കാലാകാലം വരുത്തിയ വികൃതി വ്യക്തിഹത്യയായിരുന്നെന്ന് പകല്പോലെ വ്യക്തം അതുകൊണ്ട് സെമിനാരിയിലെ വിദ്യാഭ്യാസം വൈദീകര്ക്ക് ഒരുഅഭ്യാസമാകുന്ന സെമി-നാരി-കളെ വിദ്യാഭ്യാസത്തിന് ഒരുക്കാനിന്ന് ആരുണ്ട്

rajanthomas said...

MrJoe.V
Not all boys joined and studied tne new system in Seminary sre grown in Christ and His sacred Teachings.May be some of them are good preachers/speakers/orators in various forums of church.Some of them are really followers the Lord! some of them are mere imitators for making their life good and their status/ position in community!
Read St.Luke 13:41-44.What ever Christ has said/ and his teachings are applicable to everybody in church irrespective of Clergy or laymen!
What we are saying is that We should live according to the His Call!Read 1 Peter5:2-4
St.Peter has clearly and precisely
stated about priests duties/responsiblities here!

George said...

Dear Mr Joe,
Let me clarify the point "professional Exercise". Our seminary has a scheme called parish mission. Year before last, a parish mission team of 7 or 8 seminary students visited our parish and visited houses and participated in worships. During the Sunday Holy Qurbana, many hymns of Prabhata Namaskaram they sung through the high volume sound system in Syriac.They repeated syriac language in a couple of songs during the Holy Qurbana too. Is not a porofessional exercise? The faithful in the congregation were spectators. In other words, by using syriac like this, they prvented the congregation from joining in the worship to that extend. Again, our parish has a small session of intercession prayers for the sick after Sandhaya Namaskaram on Saturdays. The parish mission team didnot participate. Is this because of their understanding Christ. Ultimately, after the Holy Qurbana on Sunday, a meeting was arranged to wind up the programme. One of the students summed up and said that the mission was a total success. Can he claim like that? Can he pass a judgement like that? Is it because of his knowledge of Christ? His comments were part of this professional exercise. I can narrate series of incidents like this from other contexts also.
###George Joseph###

Rinu Vettiyar said...

Seminary Vidhyabhyasam Athyavishyam thanneyanu Vaidheeka jeevithathinu oru orukkam nadathan seminary vidhyabhyasam kondu sadhikkum, pinne orukaryam Seminary vidhyabhyasam kondu mathram Oru uthama Purohithane srishttikkuvan kazhiyilla. Pala karyangalum uptodate aayittu Vaidheekarkku parisheelanam nalkanam, Seminary vidhyabhyasam kazhinjal pinne jeevithakalam muzhuvan athu anusarichu pokan prayasamanu prathyekichu marunna ee kalaghattathil.

rt said...

Hi MTV team,

thanx for your initiative. But this is not the forum to discuss this things. if we discuss here, nothing will come out. i think, if you really want a change, you should aproch the current authority like Bava Tirumeni, if he is not agreeing, we have other forums also. also by publishing Bava tirumeni's and Barnabas tirumeni's kalpana, what i feel, was a cheap publicity. also you cannot be a instrumental for one side. But i like the way you took the matter.

Manu said...

I believe that Seminary education is essential to ensure the uniformity of instruction to the priests. But at the same time, once they pass out of the seminary, they can be put under the charge of a parish priest for 2yrs just like an internship. I am totally for the establishment of Malankara Orthodox University at the Kottayam Seminary offering bachelors, masters and doctoral degrees. For that we need to improve our library facilities, increase the number of faculty with doctoral degrees.

Manu said...

Also the Malankara Othodox University should contain the departments such as Orthodox Theology, New Testament Studies, Old Testament Studies, Eccelesiastical History, Patristics, Liturgical Studies, Liturgical Music, Syriac Studies, Christian Ministry, Pastoral Conseling etc. with research facility and appropriate faculty.

Thomas said...

It is impossible for those who have born and brought up in America to undergo 4-5 years seminary course in India.Their parents are settled here.They have language problem too.It is better to establish a minor seminary in America affiliated to the Kottayam seminary.A short orientation/mission programme can be arranged in Indian seminaries in the final year.
Personal grudge and ego should not become a reason for disaster anywhere.
Thomas Kuttikandathil.

Sam said...

Dear All
Seminary education is a must for priests.However current seminary administration and discipline are not on the right way.There are many incidents
or experieces were there to cite. The behaviour of some seminary teachers and the system of teaching need to be improved!
Both Seminaries(Kottayam&Nagpur) shoul be under a Bishop and principal and the Governing body should include minimum three Bishops or appointment of Lectures/teachers are to be selected/scruitinised by a panel and later these appointments are to be authorised by Head of Synod/ church/Catholicose .
All seminarians after completing their studies and once ordained as priests should also serve as assistant Vicar priests in various places than their own diocese.
As Rev.Fr. James kuttykandathil said a complete overauhling must be done/required for Both seminaries at this time and
its Administration/training in our church.

The admission criteria/quota should also be there such as -ordinary parish (married)priest,Missionfields priests,and Monastry(Daira)priests.
Therefore The Church heirarchy can also eliminate shortage of priests in church or varius locations!
Although we are making comments here These are proposals to be made by managing committe members in Malankara suriyani Kristiani Association!However most of these Managing committee members are there for mere"show"only!

P.T.Sam

Abu said...

Dear Mr. Rajan Thomas,

Makarios thirumeni has never ordained an American born SEMINARY Educated priest.

In addition, this particular priest you speak of was like a fish out of water when Makarios Thirumeni passed away. Barnabas thirumeni and Nickolovos thirumeni received this priest into their diocese out of the kindness of their hearts.

God save the Church!
Furthermore, this particular priest has interesting requirements when he presides over the liturgy:
1. $250 honorarium
2. Hotel Accommodation
3. Airfare (even if the car ride is 3 or 4 hours away)

Please understand the background before you jump to any type of conclusion. I guess I can safely assume this particular priest is related to you.

About the two candidates:
These two young men, indeed, may be the greatest men to walk this earth after Christ. However, you should know that these two candidates had approached Baranabas thirumeni, before they became deacons, seeking ordination. Thirumeni told these young men that he would be happy to ordain them but they must follow protocol like everyone else and attend seminary.

In our Church, those who obey suffer and those who disobey get everything and more. It is the responsibility of the Church hierarchy to stand for the right thing. More and more it is clear that the American Diocese serves as nothing more than the cash cow.

rajanthomas said...

Mr.Abu
I don't have any of my relatives as priests in U.S.A.This your Statement is itself baseless.I had come across with many deacons who were Ordained by L/L H.G.Severios Thirumeni and became priests later either byL/L. Makarios thirumeni/or other Bishops.However I am not interested in any priests of U.S as many of them are after position/power/ and self glory not for servivce of Church or serving Christ.

Charly Padanilam said...

It will be highly appreciable if anyone explain the following:-

Is all our Bishops graduated from the Malankara Orthodox Theological seminary?

what will be the stand of the MOSC if any Priest/Bishop circulate an order/directive/kalpana against the Kalpana/directive/order of the H.H. Catholicos & Malankara Metropolitan?

Charly V. Padanilam, Houston, TX.

abides by faith said...

Wow, can we all jsut get along and stop the poltiics geez.... Priests are not looking for self glory or poower or money, dont makwe fun of our US Priests. Have mercy upon our Blessed Aju Achen, he deserves a second chance, this was an unjust thing!

abides by faith said...

As an American youth, i prefer my parish priests to be well educated in faith by going to a real seminary for the required number of years. What kind of nonsense is this. I can't be taught my some two random young priests who will be serving in America.

Abu said...

Dear Mr. Rajan,

My theory is not exactly baseless since you said:

"There is an young priest(Born and brought up in U.S.living in new york who has studied and completed Seminary education in U.S.A)was ordained by L/L.Makarios thirumeni.This young priest has not yet given a parish administration by Barnabas thirumeni."

To further prove you have no idea what you are talking about. Severios thirumeni ordained seven people (5 koroyoos and 2 subdeacons) to serve the parish altar. Furthermore, only two became priests. Fr. Thomas Mathew was ordained by Barnabas Thirumeni. Fr. Thomaskutty Kadavetoor was ordained by Makarios thirumeni. Fr. Thomas Mathew still serves as a parish priest and Thomaskutty Kadavetoor Achen has resigned as vicar. Thus, everything you said is baseless. Furthermore, you have only said asinine statements.
Based on your blanket theory on Achens in America, I can safely assume members of your family are asinine as well. While I would love to continue this battle of wit with you, clearly it is not level playing field.

To Charley Panilenum,

Bava thirumeni sent a Kalpana (no. 459/2010) to Barnabas thirumeni and Nicholovos thirumeni , as well as the two newly ordained priests, clearly stating they (Fr. John Pappan and Fr. Joyce Pappan) may only enter the Churches of the Northeast American Diocese only if they [Barnbas Thirumeni and Nicholovos Thirumeni] approve of it. Without their approval, they cannot perform any priestly function in any of the churches of the Northeast. You did not received this kalpana because you are not from the Northeast.

Bava is not infallible. He is subject to the Holy Synod and the Managing committee as well. When he is right, he is right. When he is wrong, he is wrong just like everyone else. I don't know what constitution you are reading but it is not the one of our church. I suggest you reread the constitution especially articles 106 and 107. I sympathsize with venerable Catholicos. However, that does not make him any less accountable.

Mr Charly, I have seen you write in Orthodox Herald and other places. I do appreciate that you refer to the Holy Church in the possessive. However, please know that "ordinate" is not a word. The word you are looking for is ordain.

rajanthomas said...

Dear Abides By Faith
I Did not engage in Church politics. I did not say that All Priests are for power/self glory.There are of course priests who humbled themselves,sacrificed and suffered for the American Diocese.We have to appreciate and acknowledge their great service to our community!
But, especially the young/ the new genreration, their gesture and mentality is that not of The Big Shepherd Jesus Christ!

rajanthomas said...

DearAbu
Be frank,accept the truth!
Fr.Thomas Kutty Kadavettoor did not resign,due to his ill health/health problem he cannot continue to serve as a vicar/priest.The Doicesean Bishops are aware of this fact!
Then the newly ordained two Priests By H.B. Milithios,the catholicate designate did ordination! The Catholicose(Bava thirumeni) only issued the Kalpana! Both the new Priests and all Bishops especially Mar Barnabas/ Mar Nicholavas Thirumenimar/ mar Yousabious (of American dioceses) are aware the conditions/terms of their(newly ordained priests) service!
I know what I talking about,you don't need to remind me of that. If you want to know my relaive priests and their weherebouts Our present Bava Thirumeni,late Bava Mathews II thirumeni,Mar Coorilose thirumeni(Bombay) and Both,elder/ Old inmates of Pathanapuram Daira, Chengamanadu Daira will give you all deatails!
You can play your American church/priests legend battle where ever you want, but I am not there!
many thanks mr.sane!

SeQ-Softech said...

I would like to know about the new scheme to become a priest, which is avaialable in malankara Orthodox church. Plese give more information:-)

Binu Mathew said...

I know a Pentecostal pastor who was in UK for PhD higher studies in theology in one of the best University. His thesis was to identify the usefulness of current seminary education in equiping or moulding a person for his future work as preist or pastor in the present era. As part of the study he visited all the major seminaries / Bible colleges in Kerala. After coming back from Kerala he told me that the best institution is Kottayam Pazhya Seminary of Malankara Orthodox church, the reason being, at Pazhaya seminary apart from the theological education, they also give importance for worship,fasting etc, so that the students are moulded into a priest at the end of their education like in the olden day gurukulam which is lacking most of the modern seminaries or Bible colleges.

jose said...

Mr.Abu , you wrote "you should know that these two candidates had approached Baranabas thirumeni, before they became deacons, seeking ordination. Thirumeni told these young men that he would be happy to ordain them but they must follow protocol like everyone else and attend seminary." This time you stand with thirumeni or stand behind door. MR. ABU you eligible for good THIRUMENI.

sampariyarathu said...

Dear Abu
Please read article in Orthodox Herald By Fr.Punchakkonam about ordination of 2young priests which was dicussed by Holy Synod whereby The Assistant Bishop of North EastDiocese of U.S.A were present!
The Dioceasean Bishops are bound to Follow the Kalpana of H.H. Catholicose! As Laymen you are not supposed to critisize His(Bava'S) Authority!