Saturday, July 10, 2010

പരുമലയിലെ നേര്ച്ചപ്പണം എടുത്തു സഭാ കേസ് നടത്തുന്നത് ശരിയോ?

പരുമലയിലെ നേര്ച്ചപ്പണം എടുത്തു സഭാ കേസ് നടത്തുന്നത് ശരിയോ? എന്തുകൊണ്ട് സഭാപിതാക്കന്മാര്‍ക്കു ഇതില്‍ കുറ്റബോധം തോന്നുന്നില്ല.

St. Kuriakose Mar Gregorios's Comment about the utilisation of parish properties. PDF File

A Quotation about Nerchappanam from "Srusroosha Nadapady Chattangal" written by HH Didymus I Catholicos.

47 comments:

Mathai Kuruvilla Pampady said...

Geevarghese II Bavakku Kuttabodham Undayirunnu Ennu Fr. K. B. Mathews (Karikkottu Achan) Achante Jeevacharithrathil Kanunnundu.

Swantham Panam kondupoyi Bladilittittu Parumalayile Panam Eduthu Case Nadathunna Methrachanmareppatty Enthu Parayananu.

Mathai Kuruvilla Pampady said...

Nammude Puthiya Methrachanmarkku Masam Enna Varumanamundu Ennu Anweshichittu publish Cheyyamo? One Lakh per month Enkilum Kanille?

Varumanathinteyum Chilavinteyum Kanakku Ezhuthy Synodinu kodukkanamennu Theerumanichittu Arenkilum Kodutho?

Mathai Kuruvilla Pampady said...

Vivaravakasa Commission Pole Oru Samvidhanam Sabhakku Venam. Udan Nadappilakkan Bava Thirumeny Dairyam Kanikkanam. Appol Ariyamallo Karyangalude nijasthithy.

Sam said...

My conscience says It is absolutely wrong For MOSC to utilise the offerings of Parumala for handling court Cases.
The court cases are necssary for MOSC? We don't need court cases for properties.We need peace and harmony in our church.THE JUBILEE YEAR IS THE YEAR OF RECONCILIATION!!Let us reconcile now!The churches are for worshipping God. when we lock them up and continue with court cases are we serving God or serving the will of God?The offerings in Parumala to be utilised for "Jeevakarunya pravarthanangal" or mission work of our church.

Geo said...

It is good to have no cases in court and to live in peace. Just one question to Mr. Sam and others, If Puthencruz society file a case against Parumala Church and if they claim that, Parumala church belongs to them, then what will be the response from the MOSC people from South area, To avoid case you will decide to handover the Parumala church to Puthencruz society?, or will you fight in court?? The same situation happened in Northern side and we are still struggling to get our churches...

sampariyarathu said...

Geo,if you think like that nothing can work out(I remember the story of Namboothiri about the river and dog on the other side ofthe river,what will happen if the water get drained and the dog shall bite?). Let me ask you By closing Church What are you gaining?Are you A true christian serving the Lord Jesus?How much moeny is being spent for it alredy,and how much we are going spend more ,for how long?


Puthencruez society people are aggressive,we know that. It does not mean that we should always take it that way and look for tit for tat.The court verdicts has always loopholes and the parties concerned will go further with such loopholes. If we earnrstly pray to God,he will guide us in the right way!

sampariyarathu said...

Dear Geo
I remember the story of a namboothiri and the dog.The Namboothiri was walking on one side of the river bank.he Saw the other (opposite)side of the river A Dog.He was afraid, incase the water level of river get drained/lowered the Dog shall bite me!I better take another path/way right now to reach my destination.

We know the Puthencruez Society people are so aggrassive. This does not mean we should proceed along with court cases indefnitely.
We must know how much time it is already taken.money already spent,How long it will take the court to give a verdict,how long we have to wait,how much we have to spend more?Mostly all court verdicts used to have some loopholes always. with thses loopholes the unsatisfied client/party again proceed with appeals in higher courts.again time is being spent to gain what? Do you think all thses are Righteous deeds before Lord Jesus
Christ?Let us utilise our energy,time, the wealth/property of our church for glorification of God!Also think the last s.c court verdict has been implemented or not!

Jo said...

Isn’t this discussion worthless? Does anyone have any shred of evidence that the funds from Parumala Church are being diverted to our Church related court cases? The real fact is: IT IS NOT. Parumala seminary Manager, our Sabha Secretary, etc, have reiterated time and again that, contrary to popular belief, there is absolutely no truth in the notion that we are misutilizing the offeratory from Parumala Church for our Church litigations. We have authentically audited accounts of financial transactions from Parumala Church every year. We have documented evidence regarding how each and every penny of what we earn from Parumala Church is being utilized. Let us begin to throw stones after we have certain that the party we accuse are indeed guilty of the sin we accuse them of.

Sanjoy Paul,
Coralville, USA

mathew said...

@Geo,can anyone point out any case filed by the so called"puthenkurishu society" in any court ;
chumma kannadachu iruttaakkalle geo

rajuaniyan said...

i agree with geo.
we are fighting for malankara sabha
(ie: malankara sabhayude pallikalkku vendi thanneyanu courtil case nadakkunnathu) allathe case nadathunna oralupolum onnum kondupokunnilla.(swantham kayyil ninnu pokunnathallathe.....)
prshnamonnumillatha pallikkarku enthum parayam.. vadakkulla chila pallikalil poyittu thirichu veettil varan pattiyal thanne valiya bhagyamanu.........

jacob said...

chummathe valla kamantum ezhutharuth. sabhayude kasukaleppatty padichittu vanam abhiprayam parayan.Sabhakkesukal sabhayude nilnilppinte prasnamanu.CMS college okke yatharthil sabhakku kittendathanu . thirumenimarkku orulaksham kittunnu ennu parunnavarokke oru varsham sabhakku enthu kodukkunnu.kuppi madikkunna kasinte pakuthiyenkilum kodukku.Mikka thirumeni marum aramanayil kanjiyum payaruma kazhikkunne. evarokke purathu poyi kazhondakkiya ( vadakkan bhadrasanangalil ) achanmark shambalam kodukkunnathu polum.Parumalyile varumanam Sabhayude avasiathinullatha. athineppattiyonnum avasiamilla vivadangal venda.

jacob mathew karuvatta

shibin joy said...

orikkalum sheriyalla.vishvasikal kastapettu parumalayil samarppikkunna rs upayojikkaruthu.
vere vazhi kandethuka
shibin kannanakuzhy

Malankara Orthodox TV said...

Parumalayil Oru Varsham Nerchayayi Varunnathu 3 Cody Roopayanu!!! Athil Randu Codyyum Sabhayude General Accountilekku Mattukayanu. Ee Panam Eduthanu Case Nadathunnathu. Samsayam Ullavar Association Secretary yeyo Parumala Seminary Managareyo Phone Chaithu Chodhikkuka.

Ithukondanu Bava Thirumeniyum Methrachanmarum Mattum Sabhangangalil Ninnu Kasu Pirichalla Case Nadathunnathennu Parasyamayi Prasangikkunnathu. Azchayil Moonnum Nalum Qurbana Chollunna Ivarkku Ikkaryathil Kuttabodham Thonnathethu Enthanennanu M TV Chodhikkunnathu.

Kothamangalam Casinu Ithuvare 8 Lakh Chelavayi. Puthenkurisukarkku 20 Lakhum. Ithu Vachu 1911 Muthal Innuvare Ethra Kasu Chilavayi Ennu Kanakku kootty Nokkuka. Casinu Mudakkiya Kasundayirunnenkil 1000 Pallikal Puthuthayi Vackamayirunnu!!!

Case Kodukkaruthennu M TV Parayumennu Thonnunnilla. Thalayil Moolayullavar Chinthichu Thudangan Vendy Aanu Ithu Ivide Ittathennu Karuthunnu. Nalam Class Vidhyabyasamulla Thomas Pradhaman Bavakku Manasilakunna Karyangal Orthodox Sabhayile Methrachanmarkku Manaslakathathil Aanu Albhutham.

Pachamalayalathil Chodhichal Narimanu "Kanji Kudikkan" Nammal Sahodharangalu Thammil Thallano?

Mathew Zacharia, Niranam

Malankara Orthodox TV said...

Final Judgments: Supreme Court & High Court(Malankara Sabha Casukalude Samagra Samaharam)

Translated by K. Mathan
Pl. Visit
http://www.malankaraorthodox.tv/Books/mosc%20books.htm

4the People said...

pARUMALAYILE NERCHA PANAM CASE NADATHUNNATHU SARIYANO ENNU CHINTHIKKUNNATHINU MUNPE , SABHAYILE CASE ENNU AVISHYAMANO ENNU CHINTHIKKUKA, CASE ILLENKIL ORU PRASHNAVUMILLALLO


SUPREME COURT MALANKARA SABHA CASIL VIDHI PARANJATHANU, ATHU NADAPPILAKKAN MATHRAM ENI SRAMICHAL MATHI ATHINU GOVERNMENTINEYUM, SUPREME COURTINEYUM FORCE CHAIYANAM, ALLATHE VEENDUM CASE KODUKUKAYANENKIL MALANKAR SABHA CASE ORUPKASHE SABHAIKKU VIPAREETHAMAYI MARUM.

SABHA CASE ULLATHU KONDU KANJIKUDICHU POKUNNA ORUPADU PRAMANIMARUND, AVARE ADICHU PURATHAKKUVAN THAYYARULLA NATTELLULLA ORU THIRUMENIYUM ENNU MALANKARA ORTHODOX SABHA SUNNAHADHOSIL ILLA, VYKTHI THALPARYANGAL SAMRAKSHIKKUVAN AANU ELLARUM SRAMIKKUNNATHU

NEXT 1 YEAR SABHAYUDE FULL POWER OSTHATHIOS THIRUMENIYUDE KAIYIL KODUKKAN THAYYARENKIL MALANKARA SABHAYIL CASUKAL ILLATHAKKI, SABHAYE AATHMEEYATHAYILEKKU THIRUMENI NAYIKKUM ATHINU ADHEHATHINU PRAYAM ORIKKALUM THADASSAMAKILLA

MALANKARA ORTHODOX TV, NINGAL ENGANE KURE CHINTHAKAL EVIDE KONDU VANNITTU KARYAMILLA, ATHU BANDHA PETTAVARE ARIYIKKUKAYUM, ATHINTE NADAPADIKAL EDUKKAN AVARE FORCE CHAIYUKAYUM VENAM, ALLATHE AARANTE AMMAIKKU BRANTHU PIDICHAL NALLA CHEALANU ENNE REETHIL PARIHASIKKAN ALLA, NAMUDEYOKKE UTHARAVADHITHAMANU. THIRUMENIMARKKU MATHRAMALLA UTHARAVADHITHANGAL

Jobi said...

hi Moderator, if you can read and understand,, please post this comment...



Hi Mathew Zacharia, I tottaly agree with your comment, orikkalum sariyalla, athu pavappetta janagalude kannu neerinte vilayannu,
naallam class karanaya Thomas bavaude athrayum kazhivum, bharana thanthraum MOSC ill arkum illa. athupole Thomas pradhamanoo Puthen kurize Societyo, MOSC ku ethirayeee Case koduthitttundooo? avar Vaadee aaya case enthangilum undooo? avre prathi akkii alle Case koduthirikkunnathu...(As per meediater mind I know, so many things are belongs to Puthenkurizhu society, is in the hand of MOSC Ex.Parumala, and Muvattupuzha,mannuthy..etc.) Parumala palliyill MOSC kaarum Puthen kurizhe society kaarum varunnillee? Kothamangalam thu Varunnille? eee Panam kondu, Pavappetta nammude Janangalkku Jeevan Rasha Marunnukal Free ayye koduthum, Paliative care center pole needy people nu Sabhaku Cheyyan pattunnathu Cheaithu Kodukkan Sadikkum, Oppam, Jesus ne nammude teenages nu Kooduthal manasilaki koduthu.. "Ponthikosthil" kku ulla avarude ozhukku thadayamalloo? I know so many teenage boys are going wrong ways in North india, and kerala... please divert them into our faith, or after another 20 years no one in MOSC or MSOC ? "orthadox" will come a History....


Jobi Joy
Delhi

jamon said...

3 crore we can build more than 30 homes for poor people.
all the moneys going to advocate pockects(both groups money).
this people not allowed to close this causes.

with prays
jai

rajuaniyan said...

hi mathew and joby,

" puthencruz socity" orum case polum koduthittilla ennu ninghal ezhuthiyathu kandu. evideyenghilum "kallanmar" allenghil "kattavanmar" parathy koduthathayi kettitundo.
neethi nishethikkapettavaranu courtil case koduthirickunnathu.
"NINGHALUDE AYALKAR RANDU MOONNU DIVASAM ADUPPICHU NINGHALUDE VEETTIL VANNU ITHU AVARUDE VEED ANENNU PARAJNAL SAMADHANAM SANTHOSHAM ENNU PARANJU NINGHAL VEEDU VITTU POKUMO"
NJAN OORAMANA ST.GEORGE THABORE PALLY IDAVAKAYIL PETTATHANU. NJANGHALUDE PALLY POOTTY KIDAKKUKAYANU, COURTIL CASE UNDU. SWANTHAM PALIYIL PRASHNAGHAL VARUMPOLE ELLAVARKKUM MANASILAVUKAYULLU.
PINNE MTV PARANJAPOLE ITHUVARE CASE NADATHIYA KASHUKONDU OTHIRI PALLY VAYKAMAYIRUNNU PAKSHE ATHU SWANTHAM PALLY POLE AVILLA,IE NJAN EPPOZHUM OORAMANA ST. GEORGE THABOR PALLY IDAVAKAKKARANAYITTU ARIYANANENIKISHTAM.
3 OR 4 PUTHENCRUZ SOCITY KARE NINGHALUDE PALLIKALIL KONDUVITTAL NINGHAL IPPOL PARAYUNNATHU MATTY PARAYUM, KOODATHE COURTIL CASE KODUKKUMO ENNUM KANAM..........

Varghese said...

What should we think? We can utilize money from other sources for fighting civil cases? Does it make any sense?
Does it mean filing cases by MOSC is just like a leisure watching football and cricket?
Whether the money is from parumala or from Attappadi, it all belongs to the faithful, be it from Hindu, Muslim or Christian.
Look at the Defence budget of the government. Afterall we are not keeping any funds for cases, but unfortunately cases are comming up due to one reason or the other. So if don't defend them what will be our status.
The best thing we can do is to Pray so that dissidents doesn't take place.

mohanmathew said...

vere subject illanjittano parumala palliye pothujana madhtthil ingane nattikkunnathu?
journalism ennal kooduthal vakathirivu ennanu ardham.

Geo said...

Nobody likes to have cases in courts and nobody likes to waste money for such nonsense things, but situation force them to do so. We spent money to construct our home parish, and lateron if there is a claim from a second party, then what will do?? Dear friend Sam, there may not be the presence of Puthencruz soceity people in your area, lucky people, you can blindly make any comments about the cases in other parishes. If a single person make a revolt in your home parish, like what Thengumthara achan and Pathrose ramban did recently, then don't worry, rest of the things will be done by Thomas 1 Catholica.. cases will follow.....
Now Unity between MOSC and other faction is not at all possible, things already crossed the limit. Just one example: recently i got an opportunity to attend the Holy Mass in one of their (belongs to Puthencruz faction) churches. After the service the 80 year old Core Episcopa started his speech, in that speech he made a comment like this " Makkale ningalkku ariyumo, Methran Kakshikkarkku Pathrose Sleehaye Ishtamalla, karanam, nammude bhava Zakka 1 irikkunnathu pathrose sleehayude simhasanathilaanu"" I was totally stunned on hearing this statement. See the level of poison they are injecting on common people. The Kefa members and common people in puthencruz soceity are already brain washed by Thomas Catholica and his people, so there is no point in replying to their comments.
To reach a solution there should be proper discussion in central level, each and every diocese should discuss this issue, The case is against the whole Malankara Sabha, not against one Parish. Every member should consider this as his own personal isse.
Veetham vachu piriyuka aakum oru solution, where ever conflict exists, term wise service can be given to each party, one week for MOSC and next week for Other faction. I don't know whether the Goorgan's party will also come forward for a claim..........!!!!!????

Jibu said...

ee parayunna vekthikal arengilum case nadathan pirivu tharanam ennu bava paranjal kodukkumo? purathirunnu abhiprayam parayan ellarkkum midukkanu?
ningal kodukkunna katholicadina pirivu eduthu nalla karyangal nadathumbol vere enthu margamanu sabhakku ullathu. pallikal vallavanum kondupokkolan parayano? nammude appanappooppanmar sabhakkuvendi orupadu klesangal anubhavichathanu. athinde 1% engilum sabhayodu kooru kanikku. 5 paisa polum sabhakku kodukkathu sabhaye kuttapeduthunna reethi sariyalla. abhiprayan parayan ellarkkum kazhiyum. noottandukal ayi sabhaye drohikkunna sakthikalkkethire case nadathi thanneyanu nammal vijayichu, ee sabha evide nila nilkkunnathu. nalam class polum pass akathavandeyum, gundakaludeyum kayil sabhaye elppikkan orthodox blood ulla arkkum kazhiyilla.
mattu sabhakalkku videsathuninnum panam varunnu. nammale thakarkkan panam palarum ozhukkunnu. nammude sabhakku evideninnau varumanam. athukoodi chindikku. thirumenimarkku ellavarkkum asaranare sahayikkunna projectukal undu. adachu akshepikkaruthe. parumalayile panam casenu upayogikkaruthe ennu paranja vekthikal nale muthal case nu vendi sambana kodukkan thayyarakanam.

Jibu Kurain Sharjah

Abraham said...

Palliyil Nercha itta "viswasi" athu anweshikkunnila. Aviswasi aaanu ee chodyam chodichirikkunnathu.

Manu Zachariah said...

As per the offering of Parumal church should not used for cases.faithful peolple from differnt religion(christian,(RC, Jacobits,Malankaa catholics,even martomites,Indian orthdox,Hindus, muslims)all comes to parumala church to pray the holy saint and so by get solutions in there personal problem. these devotee's drop money in bhandram in hope that this money would be used for any good prupose(jeva karunya). As per me the offerings of parumala palli should be used for cases. instead we should we ask money from our sabha praminis some money and we should run the money.

Saju said...

Mathew Zacharia and Jobi made good points. If we analyze the outcome of all the past court cases, we see that the outcome is a net loss to both factions. Both factions lost money;the Orthodox faction lost manifold. Both factions lost faithful;Protestents, Reeth, and Thankus gained.

If the Supreme court upheld 1934 constitution, the High court said individual churches are freeto leave or join the Malankara Association. The supreme court said they can't make any order on individual parishes. In order to do that the cases has to start from the very beginning. That means after 100 years of litigation the gain is ZERO. Ofcourse, the sabha properties will be handled by 1934 constitution, but they are already in the hands of Orthodox faction.

Again regarding individual churches, Jacobite faction thinks that the churches are built by them or their forefathers not from the Sabha money. So they won't give it up. That means court cases for another 100 years to get another ZERO result.

The gainers: Narimans,Sabha case wholesale and retail attorneys of Kerala, Protestents, Reeth, Thangus...

I am glad that the young people of both factions started to think about the futility of court cases. It high time to take a wise decision.

Don't forget this: In order to keep the income stream at Parumala, Manarcad or Kothamangalam, the future generation has to open up their wallets. The future generation is not interested in any kind of litigation. This may eventually keep them away from the churches and the result would be horrible.

Saju Paulose,USA

Manu Zachariah said...

Iam living in delhi and many of myfriends are marthomites, rc, Malankara catholics even my room mate is hindu at times when in tv news they show there where lathi charges in this churches in kerala, lathi charges, even there was police lathi charge at shavam samskaram . my friends tease me saying what christanity is these they say everybody show respect to dead body even police man takes his hat when he see's dead body but ur sabha u people fight in front of dead body. as per me another 2000 years we might spend crores of money on cases but there won't be any solutions . as per churches having disputes should be divided as in malabar like give church to majority and give some share to lower majority group and withdraw cases because I think never IOC bishops can enter manarcadu or kothamanglam church & same JSOC bishop enter parumala or chandaplayy so there is no use of spending money for case to get police protection for entering these church's.moreover i think thers no use in entering forcefully in a church by a bishop. I support Joby that JSOC bishops are pradhi in all cases they are not vaddi in a single cases. I pray to god almighty that bishops and leadership of both faction should come forward and withdraw cases and consider each factions as a differnt sister churches as it happened in case of marthoma & Malankara rith.. because for younsters like me its very difficult to answers questions of our friends .I think because of this many of sabha members r going to Indian pentocost.

Manu Zachariah
New Delhi

Sam said...

Dear Jibu
All people who makes comments here go to Parumala church and make their offerings there. For conducting cases the church need money after 20/30years of long battle in court what have you achieved? all those years of battle the church building normally get spoiled. how much money we have again spend for reconstruction of church?Think!!
Mohan mathew,It is not Mtv who brought this issue in public.Our church heirarchy/senoir Chor-Episcopa publically said that money for conducting cases are from Parumala!!
to Mr.Mathew<Puthencruez did not file cases but they forced(Prerippichu) orthodox sabha to file cases. Without fire there is no smoke!!
Enough is enough!!

mathew said...

as some body commented,ee sabhayute nilanillpu thanne casinte puratthaanennu thonnum;
pinne ooramana st.george thabore church irunna sthalatth ippo manoharamngalaaya randu pally kaanam1 puthenkuris societyuteyum onnu MOSC yuteyum.see that is development; valarum thorum pilarum,pilarum thorum valarum,the kerala congress style;
that is what H.E P.C.ALEXANDER ALSO TOLD EARLIER;why should one boast of a church if jesus is not inside it

mathew said...

to mr.sam
whenever you see the board of a liquor shop or bar ,if you go inside ,and says the board or banner or advertisemnet enne "prerippicchu"force cheythu;it is just as simple as that;
if a true christian church,we would never go for the ownership of a few churches,rather we would go for preaching christianity and creating more folks to the church.

sam said...

Mathew,
Wihout Fire there is No smoke!!Without Unjustice there is no case!
Can you tell us Did Antiocheans did any missionary work in Malankara? Why society poeple did not participate Malankara association in Parumala which organised by the court on their appeal.They went to court ,their appeal was granted.then they ignored that court order and formed Society. you may call them they are Righteous!
make sensible comments!!

rajanthomas said...

Dear Mathew
do not compare Liquor Shops with Church matters.Now there are Banners says" MADHYAM VISHAM ANU"This banner normally you willnot see inside Bars/liquor shops.Please read what Apostle Paul wrote about Dressing of women in Christian Church 1Timothhy 2:9-11.In olden days the people in Ephesus used to wear expensive clothing but they were not decent.
This is even applicable now in our soceity/church.
Why puthencruez Society every year makes Problems at Thrikkunnathu Seminary? They claim that Seminary property belong to them.Why then they do not go to court with evidence and proof to claim their porperty? do they respect law and order? why can't they respect court orders ?
As Citizens of India we have to repect All court orders,All state laws/republic laws etc.Also note that They(jacobites) are the one went court and appealed to Convene MALANKARA SURIANI CHRISTIAN ASSOCITION under the jurisdiction of court.the court ordered for that and they did not not follow the court order and formed a new Society at Putencruez at the same time (2002). how can you blame MOSC/IOC for that?
Will they(jacobite) allow Yoohanon Mar thimothios(Newly Consecrated bishop by Goorgan Mar Severios)to be Conducting church servicrs in Rajkumari Church In Idukki?
Mathew your comments are so irrelavant to the topics mentioned herein above.

4the People said...

Parumala Church Malankara orthodox sabhayude underil ullathanu athil kittunna nercha panam Malankara sabhayil upayogikkanullathanu, sabhayile casinu athu upayogichittundenkil athinu thettu kanunnilla, Malankara Orthodoxukarante mathramalla Mattu sabhakalil viswasikkunnavarudeyum panam und. Malankarayile case anavishyathinu vendiyanu ennu orikkalum karuthan pattukayilla, sathyathinu vendiyulla porattamanu ennal athiloode palarkkum nettangal undakunnu ennulllathu sathyamanu.

Malankara Orthodox Tvikku enthu parayanulla avakashamund, athinu aaryudeyum anuvadham venda Vimarshanangal nallathanu, ennal amithamaya vimarshanam Sariyano ennu Chnthikkuka.

Sabha Case Nadathan Malankara Orthox Sabhayil Panam evide ninnu kandethanam ennu Ningal Parayanam,

ee comments publish chaiyum ennu viswasikkunnu

Jobi said...

hi 4th people, Sabha enthinu venttiyannu case nadathunnathu? aa pannam "Parassanam" "Narimanum" polulla vakkilenmar kondupokum. 100 year case nadathiyallum enteum ninte um aathmav (Soul) swargathill pokathirikkan eee casum vazhakkum oru kaaram avaruthu... oppam aaa pannam mattu nalla kariyathinnu upayokikkam ennannu MTV parayunnathu... I am tottaly agree that point.

eee case namukku thannathu nammude pithakken mar annu.. enni nammude makkalukku nammukku kodukkan ullathu ee case nte baaakkiii... athinu shashem avar avarude makkalkku kodukkum. EEE panam kondu mattullavar "thadichu kozhukkum" nammude aathmeekamayaa thoo phycical ayyatho ayyya oru karyathinum eee case kondu Gunam cheilla... eeee Waliya paadam nallam Class karanaya Thomas 1 nu manasilyankill. birudananthara biruthavaum, Thalayill moolayulla nammude methrachen markku manasilavathathu enthannu ennanu MTV chothikkunnathu?

Hi MTV,
Why you remove this matter blog link form your home page? please reinsert, so many people can read this matter and make thier comments.. it will increase your number of visitor also you people are doing a good job...thanks
Jobi
Delhi

Jibu said...

dear manu nammude sabhayude historyum thankal ippol paramarsicha sabhakalude historyum avarude cheythikalum sarikku padichal oru prayasavum illa friendsinodu marupadi parayan.

kashmir indiayude bhagamanu. indiayude bharanaghdana aogikarichu indian unionil layicha state anu.
ippol avide oru hithaparisodhana nadathiyal kooduthal perum pakisthanil layikkan parayum. appol nammal kashmir vittukodukkano?

indaiyile ettavum purathana sabha nammudeyanu.
muslims indiayil ethiyathu 7am noottandilanu. dravida samskarathil ninnum aryasamskarathilekkum pinnidu ellamkoodi krodikarichu hindava viswasam roopam kondathum malankara sabha undayathinu seshamanu. nammale thakarkkan pala bhagangalilninnum sramam undai. athine ellam cheruthu tholpichu innu ee sabha ivide nilanilkkunnengil athu nammal cheytha onnum alla. nammude pithakkanmar nadathiya kashtapadukaludeyum sramangaludeyum prayerindeyum bhalamayanu.
sabhayil nadanna sambhavangal ( atleast after 1912) manassillakkan sramichal malankara makkal orikkalum swartha thalparyangalkku vendi mattu sabhakalil pokilla

dear sam, thankal enthanu uddesikkunathu ennu manassilakunnilla.
paraspara bandam illatha karyangal paranjirikkunnu.
dear mathew supreame court vekthamayi paranjittundu. 1934 le bharanaghatanayum, katholica simhasanathinum ethire indiayile oru court polum case file cheyyan pattilla ennu.
athil nirasa poondavaranu 2002 il new sabhayumayi munnottu poyathu?

Ellavarodum oru chodyam?
ningalude veettil mattoral athikramichukayari thamasam thudangiyal ningal case kodukkathille? athinu chelavakunna panam ningalude kudumbhathil ninnanu chelavakkunnathu? ningal sambadicha panam (lokathilulla palarum athil bhagavakkayittundakam) anu chelavakkunnathu.
parumal palliyil varunna panam sabha mathavindethanu. aa mathavine drohikkan varunnavare neridan theerchayayum aa panam upayogikkanam. malankara sabhayile ella edavakangangalum kodukkunna katholica dinapirivil oru paisa polum sabha case nu vendi edukkunnilla.

vimarsanam nallathanu, adhikamakaruthu.
swantham kannile kolu eduthittu sabhayude kannile karadu edukkan va

jibu kurian sharjah

mathew said...

ariyattha pillakku choriyumpol ariyum;
even after 100years of case in court,is there any change in the existing conditions;only change is increase in number of cases and appeals;now for a change atleast why can't we try without cases.
the judiciary has several limitations in implementing the orders and it is only a mirage that there will be any change occuring in the near future for the dispuets in the churches.the better way is to follow the examples of cheengeri church or peechi church.for that we have to comeout of the shells of prejudice

Avarachayan said...

നല്ല നല്ല അഭിപ്രായങ്ങള്‍ !!!! ഈ കേസുകളിലേക്ക് നമ്മെ ഏല്ലാവരെയും കൊണ്ട് എത്തിച്ച ആ വലിയ പിതാക്കന്മാര്‍ ഇപ്പോള്‍ എവിടെ ആയിരിക്കും !!!!! വിശ്വാസികളുടെ നേര്ച്ച പണം എടുത്തു കേസ് നടത്തുന്നത് ഒരിക്കലും യോചിച്ചതല്ല .
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
ഇനിയെങ്കിലും ഈ കള്ളന്മാര്‍ക്കും കൊലപാതകികള്‍ക്കും ഇതൊക്കെ ഒന്ന് നിര്‍ത്തിക്കൂടെ? വെറുതെയല്ല മര്‍ത്ത മറിയം അമ്മ പോലും ഇങ്ങനെയുള്ളവരുടെ മുന്‍പിലും, വീടുകളിലും പോലും വന്നു കണ്ണുനീര്‍ ഒഴുക്കുന്നത്. എന്നിട്ടും മനസ്സിലാകാതെ ആ കണ്ണുനീര്‍ പോലും കുപ്പിയില്‍ അടച്ചും, ഫോട്ടോസ് എടുത്തും വിറ്റു കാശ് ആക്കുന്നു.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
ഇനിയെങ്കിലും മലങ്കര സഭയെ ദ്രോഹിക്കല്ലേ. സഭയുടെ സ്വത്തുക്കളും, പള്ളികളും, വിശ്വാസികളെയും തിരികെ സഭക്ക് കൊടുക്കാന്‍ മനസ്സുണ്ടായാല്‍ ഈ കേസുകളെല്ലാം അവസാനിക്കുമല്ലോ. എന്തിനു ഇനിയും ഈ ശാപം ഏറ്റു വാങ്ങണം.

vilsontp said...

Regarding the cases of churches, I don’t know the situation in each church, but I read regarding settlement of cases in one church recently by sharing the properties.

I have the following suggestions,
While settling (if all interested to settle), the following things to be considered

1. Who took the initiative, whether their decedents are in MSOC or JSOC, that faction must get some privilege.
(Who donated the land, who took initiative for the church consideration only to the fore fathers of present parishioners only not for the forefathers of people who is not the member of the particular parish who relocated to other place, or other church for any reason. No need to consider who was the bishop or priest of the church at that time, if.
Known)

2. There may be addition of membership during the course of time from other parishes and other places. (May be the people of other faction are more than the people as mentioned in item no.1), then it should be considered the previous records, who all are donated and done more for the welfare and upcoming of the parish. Some privilege should be for such people.

3. Proportion of the membership for each faction, less privilege to those joined in the later stage after which no building, purchasing, or such activities happened in the church.


4. No need to consider to any unauthorized members, who joined the parish with out the approval of both faction (those joined only to increase the strength of members of each faction).

5. Any such issues related to the particular church.

Even I don’t know anything about the actual disputes between the factions, but I feel and can I expect a case less MSOC (the present disputes) even I don’t care two churches with disputes settled in my lifetime. Many of our forefathers could not have that luck in their life. That is why I have written this much blindly. Sorry if it is a blunder from my side.

One example I would like to write, I heard and read that when Elias III bava expired at Manjinikkara, there was a discussion to take the body to Kottayam and his body should be buried there so that the khabar can be built there and they will get good amount as offering from common man. But one of the Priests who were present there opposed this move by saying, when the lion and the king died; they are buried at the same location so the body of the Bava should be cremated at Manjinikkara. So as result the cremation done at manjinikkara. It does not mean that the faction in which that priest belongs to can claim that church to his faction even if this case happened even before metran kashi and bava kashi. This story may not be known to many who are going as pilgrims to Manjinikkara from JSOC stronghold places (northern side) But those who have doubt can ask the elders around Omallur and Manjinikkara (why I said is the church belongs to believers and their faction, not for the faction of the bishop or priest in whose time the church was established or renovated. Again JSOC does not have any right to claim for parumala, even if the family members of thirumeni now in JSOC does not mean what he done should be go to JSOC. See Mother Teresa may be Poland claiming (I don’t know), we Indians are proud of her than the polish people, no polish people or the relatives of Mother Theresa put claim over the institutions started by her)

For those who worried, their contribution is reaching to unwanted places, they can donate to people in their own locality who in need of help for their various needs. We may get a smile atleast for some duration while they meet us in public roads at least and we can avoid bothering the end user of our donations. Because all the things what is happening in the church is for money and power. Many said that the comments are from people who are not doing anything for church, to those I have one reply why we should pay to fetch the advocates and for the cases. Parumala Thirumeny and saints or god don’t want money. Money is required to maintain and to develop the requirement of the church.

Avarachayan said...

വില്‍സണ്‍ എഴുതിയത് വായിക്കാന്‍ രസമുണ്ട്. എന്തെളുപ്പം. നമുക്ക് ഭാഗിച്ചു പിരിയാം അല്ലെ.
സുഹൃത്തെ , ഇതാണോ ക്രിസ്തീയത?
മലങ്കര സഭാ മക്കളെ ഒന്നടങ്കം വഞ്ചിച്ചു , എവിടുന്നോ പട്ടം വാങ്ങി തിരിച്ചു വന്നു ഉള്ള വിശ്വാസികളെ പറഞ്ഞു പറ്റിച്ചു , മലങ്കര സഭയുടെ മേല്‍ കയറി ഇരുന്നു കൊണ്ട് ഇപ്പോള്‍ പറയുന്നു , നമുക്ക് ഭാഗിച്ചു പിരിയാം.

നല്ല ക്രിസ്ത്യാനികള്‍. മലങ്കര സഭയെ കേസിലേക്ക് തള്ളിവിട്ടവര്‍ക്ക് ഇനിയെങ്കിലും ബുദ്ധി ഉദിച്ചിരുന്നെങ്കില്‍. !!!

vilsontp said...

Thank you Avarachaya,

It was not my ultimate aim for division of church, but many things forced me to comment like that.
By becoming one church, what you expect to reach,
1. Some Churches, if there is no peace within the church it is just a building of brick, sand and cement of no value. (The same thing if there is no peace, coordination between the people lives at a home, and then it is not a home, just a hostel or building).

2. Or we need more people into our church.

If 1st one was the case, we could have built more churches in place of the disputed buildings and properties out of the money we spend for cases and went to the pocket of advocates.

If 2nd one is we are looking for, do you think if some one rejoin to our church out of court order or due to any reason other that he/ she mentally accepted and happy with that. Never.

If we need people, we might have done some thing while many of our peoples left for protestant and Reeth. Many who left to protestant and reeth are our brothers and cousins (many of them were in the front for all church activities and even alter boys, active members of Sunday school and youth league), as like now people cry that we need one church otherwise our family will be divided. Do you know in many houses parents and children are members of different churches (Parent (or some times only father) in our Episcopal church and other group (including mother) in protestant group and the possibility of becoming in one church or atleast in one faith is not at all possible, because the protestant groups done a big job by brain washing our children by highlighting the issues, one of which is church dispute itself). How it happened.

If some one doesn’t want to be under Malankara Orthodox, can he or she be loyal to our church in case if they are forced to become one church.

My opinions are just mine and I cannot force others to follow as per my opinion, because in India we have right to believe in a religion as per our choice.

One more thing, in many of our families there the wives are from Marthoma. Do you believe all of those wives are living with the spirit of and orthodox member, No. Many even after 40 to 50 years of marriage still don’t know how to confess in front of the priest. Many are escaping by husoyo. Or by-hearting what written in the end of Quarbanakramam. Do you think their children can be true orthodox members. Many of our church members are orthodox only because they born to orthodox parents. Many are still (atleast those of old age) are here only because they wish to be buried where there parents are buried.

After of all none of the leaders in any of the church cannot claim that they can or their church members will get heaven or the ultimate destiny of our soul we wish to be.

While we die none of us are going to get any extra points due to the church and there is no partiality between the church and its claim over throne or the size of the church.

Finally many of us are salient only because, we don’t want to have the “saapam” of our elders due to our comment as whenever many of us started discussing the issues about church, our elders discouraged us from discussing it. Also one request doesn’t feel that those who comments against vested interest are friends of opposite faction or other churches. Because we love our church we feel very sad due this situation we are facing for one century and we know many times the reconciliation between both factions are failed not due to throne or due to faith but due to the vested interest and ego of some individuals of both faction and as per the false advise of advocates.

So sorry if any one hurts in any way by my comments.

Avarachayan said...

സാരമില്ല വില്‍സണ്‍, എല്ലാവരും തെറ്റിദ്ധരിച്ചു പോകുന്ന ഒരു വിഷയം ആണ് ഇത്. അത് തന്നെ ആണ് യാക്കോബായക്കാരുടെ വിജയവും.
എന്താണ് ആരും പെട്ടെന്ന് സഭാക്കെസില്‍ ഇടപെടാത്തത് ? യാക്കോബായക്കാര്‍ ഇപ്പോഴും മലങ്കരസഭയുടെ ഒരു വിഖടിത ഗ്രുപ്പ് എന്ന് തന്നെയാണ് അവര്‍ പറഞ്ഞു വച്ചിരിക്കുന്നത്. അത് കൊണ്ടാണ് അവര്‍ മലങ്കര സഭയുടെ പള്ളികളില്‍ കയറി ഇരിക്കുന്നത്. കയറാന്‍ പറ്റാത്തത് പൂട്ടിച്ചു നശിപ്പിക്കുന്നത്. എന്നിട്ട് ഇപ്പോള്‍ കരയുന്നു , നശിച്ചു പോകുന്ന ദേവാലയങ്ങള്‍ തുറന്നു കൊടുക്കണം !!!!!!! എന്ത് നല്ല സ്വഭാവം. അതാണ്‌ യാകൊബായക്കാര്‍.

Mathew Koshy, Dallas said...

Parumalayileyum Kothamangalatheyum Omalloreyum Panam Casinu Kodukkunnathu Nirthiyal Casum Vazhakkum Thaane Nilkkum.

sam said...

The Cases will not end or cease until the two factions turns to God,repent and end their Rivalry.
But the MOSC heirarchy should utilise the Offerings in Parumala purely for the services pleasing God.They have to stand before God and give account To God for the misappropriation of offerings at Church.

Thomas said...

WHO SAYS THE MONEY IS USED FOR THE CASE?ANY PROOF?THIS IS AN ALLEGATION TO TARNISH THE IMAGE OF THE ORTHODOX CHURCH.DO YOU THINK THE ORTHODOX CHURCH HAVE NO OTHER INCOME?
THOMAS KUTTIKANDATHIL.

sam said...

mr.Thomas Kuttikandathil
Don't pick the teeth and smell it."Pallu Kuthi Manappickale"ennu Pramanam!

Reni said...

The tendency of the editor of Orthodox.tv to fish in muddy water is deplorable. Dear Editor Please note that teh faithful of teh Church are firstly devoted to Church and not to your website. You are in the business of getting more hits, but remmeber this could bakfire on you. Time and again you have provedthat are too imature to run a news paper for the church. I advice you to do a journalism course atthe earlest.

George said...

I also doubt if the money from Parumala is used for church case. Please see the recent budget of the Orthodox Church. You will realize that the Church has other income as well. Please do not start a debate based on the assumptions or allegations put forward by a bunch of people to cause confusion among the faithful. Church cases are continuing because Orthodox Church still believe that unity is possible and a judgement in favor of the Orthodox Church will definitely lead to that. Also please be aware that the Orthodox Church did not consecrate any bishops for long time since it not only wanted to maintain status quo , but was also taking into a consideration of the possible merger of the two factions

Reni said...

There is a general feeling among our faithful that the court cases are only for material things. Few understands that we are basically fighting for our FREEDOM, WHICH IS OF IMMENSE VALUE.

If we look at the state of different churches in Malankara, we will know OUR WORTH. RC, LC or Romo-Syrians (Malnkara reeth) or any other church are with a foreign tail. So we were harassed and humialited by the friends of "foreigners'.

We are not for street fight. But we are seeking legal steps to protest the dignity of the Sabha. We cannot gain anything by being selfish. Other churches know our worth but they cannot easily grab it from us. So they try to tease us by ponting out the cases which we were actually forced to fight. It is realy a sorry state that the laity criticise the leadership on this issue.