Thursday, July 1, 2010

HH Ignatius Zakka I Patriarch's excommunication Kalpana.

HH Ignatius Zakka I Patriarch excommunicate Mar Severios Mosus Gurgan, Mar Barthalomios Joseph (Joseph Ramban), Mar Thimothios Yuhanon (Yuhanon Ramban).

English       1  2
Malayalam    1  2  3

An Article about H. H. Ignatius Zakka I Patriarch's Kalpana by Fr. Johnson Punchakkonam.
 

19 comments:

Sam said...

The Bull/Kalpana quoted some Bible verses2Timothy3:1-15;Philip3:19and Mathew7:15.The same verses are applicable to H.H.Zakka and his Precedors as they behaved and showed their flocks/clergy same example. H.H.Zakka should have read and follow Mathew 7:3-5 prior to the issue of this bull.Now H.H. Zakka clearly/precisely stated in his bull That IOC are his enmies.He forgot that the "enemnity "was created by Him and his precedors of universal Syriac orthodoxChurch and his/their beloved Jacobites in Malankara Church. They(H.H.Zakka and his precedors) divided and ruled Malankara church for money and Greed.The same is now played by H.E. Moosa Goorgan.
now Moosa Mor severios in Europe being supported by Excommunicated Malankara Jacobite Priest,Kaughmpallil, Who was consecrated later by Goorgan Mar Severios as Chor-Episcopa of U.K .
This ex-communication of H.E Goorgan,or Joseph mar Barthalomis,Yoohanon Mar Thimothios will have no effect now!

Thampy said...

PathriArchee sinte Kalpanayude Sary Pakarppanu Sreshtan Ezhuthiya Kathil Koduthirikkunnathu Enkil, Albhutham Thanne....!Parisutha Mar Thoma Sleehayude Pattathuwam, Athu, Yakkoob Pathrikkeesinte Oru Pingamy Amgheekarichu PrasithaPeduthiyirikkunnu. Malankara Sabha Makkalkku Santhoshichu Daivathe MahathwaPedutham....Daivam Maathram Valiyavan.......Mar Thomayude Simhaasanam Neenaal Vaazhatteeeeeee.....Jai...Jai...Jai Catholicose.H.H.Moran Mor Baseliose Mar Thoma Didimose Pradhaman Catholica Bhava Thirumeny Neenaal Vaazhateee.......

Varghese said...

It is not worth a read. But the fact about Gurgon & Co. was already confirmed by our church first and now they have managed to copy us. So nothing special. Just waste of space and time. P.C.Society is notorious for its copy cat culture. This is another example.

Malankara Orthodox TV said...

Dear sirs,

I do go through this web site once in a while. Being an open forum, the idea is good enough for expressing varying views in a healthy manner. I do find some very informative pieces which provide a lot of insights. But it is really unfortunate that some people are misusing this by posting comments demeaning others. The language is too vulgar and unwarranted. This sort of postings degrade the website. Should we encourage this? Can't we have a system where some scrutiny is possible? Or can't these senseless comments be edited? If this goes on like this a day will come when people will use this forum in exchanging pornographic comments too. Please do something. Our Church getting a BAD name out of this site can't be viewed lightly.

Regards,

George Joseph

Shaji K said...

Dear All
Think something before criticize.
Who is our enemy ?
In india AD 52 to 16 Century, here only one’’ saba’’ Indian and Syrian cultures was there.(That is why Protestant people also use syriac language) Antiochian priests had constructed many churches here and taught us how to pray. I don’t think they took anything from here. They sacrificed much for Christianity .
( still we have lots of churches, constructed by Syrian Bishops , and in Holy Mass we remember them )
15 and 16th century Portugal came with power and money, forced our Christians to convert under the Rome,
( History Of “ Kunan Kurishu Satyam” )Example : Life style of Knanaya Catholics (they are rich and Knanaya Jacobites are Medium class )
Then
British (DIVIDE AND RULE )
This they had used in our churches with Money and power , because we were against them
( Marthoma/Malankara catholic /Jacobite /and us )
1They divided Marthoma SABA as same culture of CSI ( including style of Songs) and given schools etc…etc
Again we were strong,
2 They divided Malankara catholic (under the rome ) and
3 They divided Malankara Orthodox and Syrian orthodox (VATTI PANUM) still I don’t know where is this huge amount.
Before criticize think .
1 From where did we get HOLY MURON ?
2,From where did we get Holy Kurbana ? etc…
From 1912 we have been trying to make some changes in our Holy Kurbana, but what we did ? Only we could change Red “Kuppayam” to Rose for our Bishops.
Who gave us power to criticize H.H. Zakka and other Bishops ,
In My Opinion we are Brothers Like Middleast churches ( Universal orthodox ,Coptic Orthodox ,Armenian Orthodox etc..)
We have to respect Throne of Antioch, same time have to keep our identity.

Chandichayan, Puthuppally said...

Londonil Ulla Yakobayakkarellam Fr. Eldhosinte Koodeyum Orthodox Sabhayilum Chernnu. Oduvil Avare Thirichu Pidikkan Vayyatha Zakka Pradhamane Innu Londonil Irakkiyirikkukayanu.

Sam said...

Dear Shaju K
you are ignorant about History and H.Qurbana and prayer of Malankara orthodox Church. The Prayers and Holy Qurbana were there before AD 1665, that is when we had started connection with present Universal Syriac orthoox churchOf Antoch. Our Worship and Holy Qurbaba originally were on East syriac rite. Antiocheans came and made it to West syriac rite.If You Read Galathian2:12-15 St.Paul rebuked St.Peter By face on faith matters.It is not Antochians who had constructed church in Malankara and taught Malankara church how to pray. Regarding throne of Antioch,no throne were given to Disciples of Of Christ in earth.All thrones are given on second coming of Jesus Christ when apostles are going to judge each tribe of Israel .If you say there is throne in Antioch,There is throne in Malankara for st.thomas and Antiocheans should also respect throne of St.Thomas.Further to this for your awareness, please read acts 11:19-26 it is clear that the name Christianity was given to followers of Christ, After Paul And Barnabas worked/preached gospel there in Antioch more than a Year.Malankara Church Identity is not of St. Peter, IT IS THE IDENTITY OF ST.THOMAS. Malankara Orthodox Church is part of Oriental othodox Church.Malankara Orthodox church respect, All Apostles equally,and their thrones/see.

rajanthomas said...

Dear Saju K
Do not try to confuse the Malanara orthodox Church followers as you ought to study and learn Church history. The MOSC not attempted to Change Holy Qurbana as alleged by yourselves.In Holy qurbaana the holy fathers we remember are not only Syrians but also from Alexandria,and Rome(Thubden5). Malankara church had early connections with Church In Persia as well as Alexandrea.
You should read Kalpana of Pathrose III(1878) and you will understand whether they received money from Malankara Church or not.
JesusChristestablished/instituited Holy Qurbana and through his Disciples gave the sacrements to church.Not By AntiocH Partriarch. Holy Mooron not the sole property of Antioch. All sacrements are given to church by Apostles of Christ through the authority Jesus. The inetrnal struggle and factions/divisions started in Malankara Church because of some Antiochean Heirarche's greed and selfish interest.in 1958 there was peace and harmony in Malankara Church due to Supreme court verdict,and later in 1970's The Antiochean Partriarch H.H. Yakkoob III through his infamous Bull created all problems in Malankara Church reached this present unplesant situation of hatred and litigation.
Shaju, think yourselves before by studying bible/learning church history about christianity and early church rather than telling us identity and Throne. In Christ Everybody,is same.Throne is for Jesus Christ only. There is only apostolic see in earth which 12disciplesgot through Christ.All apostles are equal. Who ordained St. Paul(former Saul) who has no connections with Jesus Christ before his conversion.Who baptisised Paul?. How did Paul got equality With Peter.Now Syrian Christians remember in 4th Thubden that Exalted Mar Pathose and Mar Paulose(Sleehanmaril thalavanmaraya mar Pathrose and Mar Paulose ) Again the feast of two apostles,St.Paul and St.Peter being commemorated on the same Day June29Th every year!
These Kuppayams(robs) of Red/Rose came in Church after King Constaintain became christian and he declared Christianity as official religeion of Empire Rome.Do not talk about Kuppayams!
Jesus Christ Is The HEAD OF CHURCH!
St.Peter himself called as co-elder among elders ofearly church. The Church is built upon The foundation laid by The Apostlesand Prophets,The CORNER STONE being Jesus Christ Himself.(Ephes 2:20)
The Church originated in Jerusalem on day Of Pentacost by Holy Spirit through the disciples. from there it spread all over the world.
We are not critiszing here in this forum/blog anybody. we are posting our opinions regarding a subject.

Shaji K said...

Dear Mr SAM
I don’t know this type of ego with St .peter & St. Thomas.
ST. Thomas also from Middleast.
St. Peter and St. Thomas they are for all not only for US.
Think all in + point.

rajanthomas said...

Dear Shaju
Holy Qurbana and sacrements are instituited By Lord Jesus Christ and Gave to church through his apostles. The Mooron(anointiing oil)came in our churh not through St.Peter/Antioch. The name christians we got not because of Peter alone. Antioch was a mixed populated City of jews and Gentiles.Because of persecution in Jerusalem apostles moved from Jerusalem to Antioch. St.Paul and Barnabas worked/preached Gospel there for more than a year. Because of whole
hearted and dedicated work in unity by All apostles the followers of Christ began to known as Christians. Read Acts 11:19-26.
Christ Is Head of Church. The disciples,prophets are foundations stones,Jesus Christ being Corner Stone.
The Red robe Of Bishops came in practice after Emperor Containtaine declared Christanity as official religeon in Roman Empire.So do not talk about Robes.
From Ad 52 to Ad 1600 there were Christians in Kerala known as Malankara Nazranis not syrian Christians. When Europeans came and started problems The Christians/Church in Malankara sought help of Church in Persia,Church In Alexandrea and in Antioch. The Church in antioch came for help they change our liturgy from East syriac to west Syriac. So the Liturgy and prayer were there never changed only the robes/attire.The British called us Syrian Christians because of folloing Syrian attire/rite.
Your view/opinion About construction of church in Malankara by antiochean people/fathers are not correct. They came here to help us However they are after our money /wealth See The Kaplana of antioch Partriarch in1878 in Mulathurithyy church. Although they helped us in problems by Anglican,roman Church Their interest was to get money and temporal power in Malankara church.They(Antiocheans in Malankara) are the cause of vattipanam,first and second "samudaya case"

We remember all early church fathers in 5th thubden. Again in 4th Thubden we remember The Exalted Apostles Mar Pathrose and Paulose, As Cheif among apostles.All apostles of Christ are equal and they have same positions/power of authority.
Malankara Church,Factions/disunity created By Antiochean Partriarchs
because of their Greed for money/power.After litigation for a long time Peace and harmony came in1958 due to Supreme court verdict.
In 1970's H. H. Yakkoob III Partriarch of Antioch started /created all problerms in Malankara Church by issuing Infamous Bull and consecrsating bishops without Malankara association and recommendation of Synod here.We respect and honour antiochean Partriarch As supreme head of Syriac orthodox Church head member of one of oriental orthodox Church subject to 1934 Malankara Church Constituition.
Can you please tell Jacobite faction and their various media/forum to Stop criticising/humiliating /belittling the priest hood and Heirarchy of MOSC/IOC rather than commenting on MOSC Blog Posting?

sampariyarathu said...

Dear shaji
I did not show any ego! the ego created by Yourselves.I tried to show the real facts.at the same time i aslso admit that We are not 100%blameless.
It is you who said/wrote "Who Showed/taught us H.Qurbana"?Who Gave Us Holy Mooron? now you only want to talk + . More minus than Plus

Mathew said...

Just adoubt...if the 203/70 kalpana was so much damaging...why no action was taken immediately on receipt of this infamous kalpana ? The church continued to honour the Patriarch and even a few months later in the 31st dec 1970 association meeting there was no mention of this kalpana... what happened ? Vattakunnel bava catholikka aakaanulla ulsaahathil ee kalpana theranjeduppu kazhiyunnathu vare shraddichillayirunno ?

Kannadachu iruttakaruth..

sampariyarathu said...

Dear shaji
There is no ego With St.Thomas or St.Peter. they are bond servants of Christ. The ego Is created By Some wheat colour people on Malankara People and church.You know everything but pretend that you do not know. British ruled India beacuse of their rulr India Advanced in manyfields of Industry,education,Telecommunication,Transport,Railway,AirTransport, armed forces and in every field including the Dress that we wear now.This does not mean that we should respect and honour British forever and everything we/india have belong to them.
On Spiritual matters we always look at the + but this does not mean we should not consider all -
The Best solution is that Antiochean Partriarch and his group should treat IOC as themselves or like them.This is what Christ said Love your enemy; and love your neighbour yourselves!

Varghese said...

Dear Shaji.K,
How come you didn't start with, it was in Antioch the Church was established and ended with .......Marakoola.
MOSC knows whom to respect and how and we don't need somebody to tell us how to do it. For eg. we need our kids get married and we want them to have children. But do we teach them how to make them? When you try to teach them that and tell the world if at all you had not to tell them they would have had no children, what does people think? This man talks nonsense. Yes this is what MOSC thinks about the patriarch. At the same time it doesn't disown its relation it has with the Patriach and that is what you need to appreciate.
Now the war between St.Peter and St.Thomas. If at all those fanatics in our church in 1970 had not to make that Kalapana regarding St.Thomas and get it approved by HH Yakob III, nobody would have ever tried to get into an argument regarding St.Thomas and St. Peter. Afterall, a father is a father, and no son will ever bear ridiculling him. We call them 'Thandakku piranavanmar'. If my neigbour is a V.I.P and he knows me, can I ridicule my father who might be a U.I.P to others and behave that I am the son of that V.I.P. This is what the so called Christianity founded namesake place movement (Antiochian Movement) is doing in Kerala. Try to read chapters before and after Acts 11 to get an understanding of who became what in Antioch and what were their qualities. Can U people ascribe one quality from that?

Thomas said...

Then why our Grant Fathers went Mattanchery ( Kunan Kurishu Satyam)

This argument is good for Roman Catholics,& Malankara Catholics .

Shaji K
This (VATTI PANUM) Not in Jacobites because we are not rich.
And think Wr is this huge amount; it should be one of the big Privet bank from UR side.

sampariyarathu said...

Dear mathew
The reply to Kalpana of H.H Yakkoob III was promptly done By that time.No body closed their Eyes by then. Kalpana is not a matter to be dicussed in association it is a matter to be handled by Holy synod.You people are always creating stories of MOSC at the same time forgetting What you Have Done/what you have said.Try to understand What is Faith,Sacrementslike Qurbana,priesthood etc from Bible other oriental churches about orthodoxy.When did this title Partriarch come? From where? etc

Mathew said...

Dear Sam..Itha njaan nerathe paranjathu kannadachu iruttakarathu ennu...

No reply tothe 203/70 kalpana was given until much later. If there was some reply given imediately I suggest you to give me the date and reference number of that reply.

Two reasons are obvious...

1. This Kalpana was not considered as that much damaging when recieved as later hyped up and propogated by Devalokam to promote schism.

2. Vattakunnel Bava who knew the importance of the votes of the erstwile Jacobites, did not want to create a controversy until after the election.

The 203/70 kalpana was hyped up and propogated only after 1972 with vested interests...

Check your sources.

sampariyarathu said...

Dear Mathew
These are your own findings/thoughts as you must to know that the Schism is made By Antiocheans especially L.L.H.H Yakoob III. Jesus did not appoint St. Peter as the Sole Representaive/ambassedor of Christ. Malankara Orthodx Church is not under sole authority of Antiochean/Syrian orthodox church.
Antiochean Movement was working secretly behind from 1958 after the peace and reconciliation, for vested interest of H.H. Yakkob III and his agents in Malankara
as he was herein malankara during the Samudaya Case! L.L.H.H.Yakkob made Schism/heretic teachingsin1970.And now You also made the current issue as Schism! What Schism MOSC made,when? and where? oriental orthodoxchurches recognise MOSC as aIndependant/Autonomus/autocephelous church.
The current issue is that the Bull Of H.H. Zakka. Here he termed MOSC/IOC as his enemies. How can he use such words as supreme head of Syrian orthodox church?
Who are greedy people? The people who Ask money and wealth in order to consecrate some body as Bishop.The Spiritual People who use money and wealth to kill other innocent people,,, .those who work with Mafia and gundaism!
Those who want see the spiritual leader to be paying lakhs of money through their parishes! Aranu Kannadachu Iruttukkannuthe"!.Those
Spiritual leaders giving military titles of Brigadier/chevelliars to laity for money/wealth.
St. Peter(1Peter5:3) says that "serve as example to the flock"So The Spiritual leaders/Elders to show the flocks as an example!

the man to walk with said...

http://saint-thomas-christians.com/aftermath.html