Friday, July 23, 2010

St. Baselios Yeldho Bava's name avioding in HH Catholicos's Kalpana


St. Baselios Yeldho Bava's name avioding in HH Catholicos's Kalpana (The Holy Episcopal Synod presided by HH Baselios Geevarghese II Catholicos Canonised St. Yeldho with St. Gregorios on 2nd November, 1947).
ബാവാ തിരുമേനിയുടെ കല്പനകളില്‍ എല്‍ദോ മാര്‍ ബെസെലിയോസ് ബാവയുടെ പേര് ഒഴിവാക്കുന്നത് ശരിയോ?
H. H. The Catholicos' Circulars.

58 comments:

Chandichayan, Puthuppally said...

Puthenkurisu Society Membersinodulla Virodham Yeldho Bavaye Ozhivakky Theerkkano?

Pinne Enthinanu Thubdenil Koduthirikkunnathu? Aaru Koduthathanathu?.

Niyuktha Bava Parayumpole Athum Mathews II Bava Chaitha Mandatharamano? 4 methrachanmare Sabha Yojichappol Eduthathu Mathews II Bava Kanicha Mandatharamanennanu Thumpamon Diocese meetingil Adheham Adichu Vittathu. M TV yile Newsukal Appazhappol Ariyunna Thumpamannile Achanmar Athu Kettu Ullil Chirichu. Aaranu Mandatharam Kanichittu Purappurathu Ninnu Koovunnathanennu Avarkku Manasilavukayum Chaithu.

rinsam2002 said...

It is not a sin/or an offence that The Bull/Kalpana should have all Names of Saints in Malankara Orthodox Church.It is not a must to have names of all Saints in Malankara church in Kalpana.The Kalpana is normally an official announcement By the top spiritual heirarchy to the whole church in General.In My opinion There Is no need to Mention all saints names in Kalpana except,st.thomas And st.mary!But we should remember every holy fatheres all the times in our prayers/liturgical services etc.

appu said...

Parisudha sabha Angekarichirikkunna Parisudhanmare orkkanulla vediyalla Parisudha Bavayude kalpana. Athinulla edamanu kurbana madyeyulla Thubden. Athukondu eeparayunna aropanathil thanne oru kazhambumilla. Mar Greegoriosnem Mar Dionysiusnem kalpanayil orkunnathu avar parisudhanmar ayathukondu mathramalla, pinneyo avar Parisudha Bavayude Mungamikal ayathukondu koodiyanu. Mar Greegorios, Mar Dionysius, Mar Baselios Eldho enne pithakanmar ellavarum Sabhayude parisudhanmaranu. Mar Baselios Eldho Bava Malankarayude rakshakkayi athrayum cleshangal sahichu evide eyunnulli ethiya vandhya Pithavanu. Mar Eldho Bavaye kurichu Valare churukkam karyangale namuku labhyamayullu. Adhehathinde Madhyasthathayil Anekarkku Anugrahangal Labhichukondirikkunu. Mar Baselios Bavaye Malankara Sabha Parishudhanayi prakyapichathum athukondu thanneyanu. Thubdenil orkkunna ellavareyum kalppanayil orkkanamennu parayunnathu prayasamulla karyamanu. Puthenkurishukarude society angekarichirikunna parisudhanmaranu Mar Baselios Sakrallayum, Mar Osthathiose Sleebayum athupole Mar Greegorios Abdul Jaleel bavayum. Ennal avarude shrestandeyo Parisudha Pathriyarkese bavayudeyo kalpanayil ee perukal ormikkunilla.

Malankara Orthodox TV said...

പരിശുദ്ധ ബസേലിയോസ് ബാവയുടെ പേര് കല്പനയില്‍ ഉള്‍പ്പെടുത്താത്തത് മാത്രമല്ല പ്രശ്നം അദ്ദേഹത്തിന്‍റെ പെരുന്നാള്‍ ദിവസം സഭ ഒരു കുര്‍ബ്ബാനയെങ്കിലും അദ്ദേഹത്തിന്‍റെ പേരില്‍ നടത്തുന്നുണ്ടോ? പെരുന്നാള്‍ ആശിര്‍വദിക്കുമ്പോള്‍ പരിശുദ്ധന്മാരുടെ പേര് പറയുമ്പോള്‍ എവിടെയെങ്കിലും അദ്ദേഹത്തിന്‍റെ പേര് പരാമര്‍ശിക്കാറുണ്ടോ? സഭയുടെ ഔദ്യോഗിക വെബ്‌സൈറ്റില്‍ പരിശുദ്ധനമാരുടെ പട്ടികയില്‍ അദ്ദേഹത്തെക്കുറിച്ച് ഒരു പരാമര്‍ശവും ഇല്ല.
http://malankaraorthodoxchurch.in/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=149&Itemid=329

jamon said...

only H.H Bava's intension is to have Kothamagalam charch and property .
.please read Athanious therumeies article.all the readers understood wht happened in malankara charch fast few years.
jaimon
dubai

sampariyarathu said...

Jesus said to the Sribes/Pharisees,Hypocrites you build the graves(tombs)of the prophets,and decorate the memorial tombs of the righteous ones...(mathew23:29).It is not the Kalpana/bull in which we remember these Holy Father and Pray for them . We must remember and pray for them in all our worships/Prayers.
It is the duty of All Orthodox Church members to pray for them(holy fathers)as well as for our spiritual leaders who are alive and for the whole church. How many of US do that in our Daily Prayers!
We are not supposed to Critisize the Church heirarchy in this regard. we normally pray four needs only! we never remember those Holy fathers, or their sufferings,good works for the church and for Christ etc.
here we don't need to imitate puthencruez or other churches!
Remember,The HolyFathers, for their Good Deeds and works, Jesus will give them the Reward!!

There was no need for MTV to bring this Kind of Issue(Kalpana) for discussion!

aby karthikappally said...

PARISHUDHA BASELIOS YELDHO BAVA
MALANKARA YUDE PARISHUDHAN ANNENNU POLUM EVIDE PALARKUM ARIYILLA....

MALANKARAYILA ETHRA PALLIKALIL ATHEHATHINTE CHITHRAM UND????

NAMMAL PRASATHIKARIKUNNA ETHRA CALANDERUKALIL ATHEHATHINTE CHITHRAM VEKARUND?????(ANGAMALI BADHRASANAM OYIKE)

PARISHUDHA YELDHO BAVA KU PALLIKALIL ARHAMAYA AATHARAV NALKANAMENNU KANICHU ADIYANTHARAMAYI PARISHUDHA BAVA THIRUMENI ORU KALPANA ERAKENDATHU ANIVARIYAMANU

aby karthikappally said...

Parishudha Baselios Yeldho Bava ye parishudhanaki prakyapicha Baselios Geevarghese II bavayude kalpana MTV prasathikarikanam......

Geo said...

In the Kalpana it is clearly mentioned that "shesham sakala sudhimanmarudeyum sudhimathikaludeyum......". How can include the names of all the saints in one Kalpana. Why we are inviting yet another unnecessary issue dear Mr. Joice.....

Malankara Orthodox TV said...

പ്രിയ ജിയോ
മലങ്കര സഭ നിലവില്‍ 3 പിതാക്കന്മാരെ മാത്രമേ പരിശുദ്ധന്മാരായി പ്രഖ്യാപിച്ചിട്ടുള്ളൂ. അവരില്‍ രണ്ടു പേരുടെ മാത്രം പേര് പരാമര്‍ശിക്കുകയും ഒരാളെ ഒഴിവാക്കുകയും ചെയ്യുന്നത് ശരിയാണോ. പ. ബാവയുടെ കല്പനയെക്കുറിച്ചും അഞ്ചാം തുബ്ദേ നെക്കുറിച്ചും പുലിക്കോട്ടില്‍ മാര്‍ യൂലിയോസ് തിരുമേനിയുടെ ഒരു പരാമര്‍ശമുണ്ട്. "മലങ്കര സഭയിലെ ഒന്നോ രണ്ടോ പിതാക്കന്മാരെ മാത്രം പേരെടുത്തു പരാമര്‍ശിക്കാതെ മലങ്കര സഭയെ ഇന്നയോളം വഴി നടത്തിയ എല്ലാ പിതാക്കന്മാരെയും അനുസ്മരിക്കുകയാണ് വേണ്ടതെന്നു."
അങ്ങനെ ചെയ്താലും ശരിയാണ്. പക്ഷെ ഒരാളെ മാത്രം മനപുര്‍വം ഒഴിവാക്കുന്നതാണെന്ന് ബസേലിയോസ് ബാവയുമായി ബന്ധപ്പെട്ട പല കാര്യങ്ങള്‍ കൂട്ടിവായിക്കുമ്പോള്‍ മനസിലാകും. മുകളില്‍ മലങ്കര ഓര്‍ത്തഡോക്സ് ടിവി ചെയ്തേക്കുന്ന കമന്റു തെറ്റാണെന്ന് പറയാന്‍ കഴിയുമോ. ആണെങ്കില്‍ ഈ ബ്ലോഗ്‌ പോസ്ടിങ്ങു പിന്‍വലിച്ചു മാപ്പ് പറയാന്‍ ഞങ്ങള്‍ തയ്യാറാണ്

Thomaa Muttatheril said...

Malankara Orthodox Sabha and our Saint Yeldho Mar Baselios
It is a very disappointing matter that our patron saint Yeldho Mar Baselios, also acknowledged as Maphriyono Mor Baselios Yeldo has been intentionally ignored from our church declarations.
I have brought this discussion with Mr. Thottackad, and necessary dialogue on this matter has not been conducted after the initiation. It is very depressing to know that many of our priests and bishops are aware of only two saints of our church, namely Parumala Thirumeni (Metropolitan Geevarghese Mar Gregorios) and Vattasseril Thirumeni ( Metropolian Geevarghese Mar Dionysius).
Yeldho Mar Baselios was ordained as a saint of our church along with Parumala Thirumeni based on the declaration (Kalpana No: 38) put forward by His Holiness Baselius Geevarghese II dated on December 18, 1947(1123 Dhanu, 3). This saint’s name was thereby affirmed to be remembered along with the names of other saints in the 5th Thubdein, and should be used when conducting “Saddeko”, the memorial prayer for saints. Also this saint’s name could be used to proclaim churches in our congregation based on declaration No: 38.
If the supreme head of our church has forgotten this patron saint of our church, there is no wonder in blaming the priests of the congregation in ignoring Yeldho Mar Baselios. This is not a good practice followed by our church, which has a tradition that is dated back to AD 56. Also Thalassery, one of the oldest sea ports situated in Kannur district in Nothern Kerala, where Yeldho Mar Baselios set his first foot step in Malankara, should be given equal importance as Thomathu Kadavu.
The reasons to disregard Yeldho Mar Baselios may be,
1. He was a bishop who sacrificed his life to travel from Iraq to save our
church, which was suffering from Portuguese dominance, before the British supremacy.
2. The saint’s tomb is situated at Kothamanagalam Cheriya Palli which is under the control of Jacobite faction right now.
3. There are no family members or well wishers in Malankara Orthodox Church, or in India to voice this concern.
4. The church is more interested in declaring new saints, who could be a good income generating strategy.
The above mentioned factors may be contributing factors to ignore the holy saint, who has sacrificed his life and traveled all the way from Iraq to Malankara to spread the word of Jesus Christ. If that is the reason, I request OCYM, the only alive spiritual organization of the church to take immediate steps to bring this Holy Father of ours to the limelight, and give him the same significance as Parumala Thirumeni and Vattasseril Thirumeni in our church proceedings.
Let me thank Malankara Orthodox TV, who have placed the picture of the tomb of Yeldho Mar Baselios in the website from the very beginning, and Alexander Jacob IPS, who diligently mentions the name of Yeldho Mar Baselios, and consider the three saints of Malankara Orthodox Church of the East with equal significance during his spiritual dialogues.
Our Holy Saint, Yeldho Mar Baselios Thirumeni, pray for our church, and eliminate all the illicit satanic crooks who try to get rid of your holy name from the church history and church declarations.
Thank you all…………………..

Thomaa Muttatheril
612,N Booth Calloway Rd,
Hurst,TX-76053.
Call-817-284-0803

Avarachayan said...

എന്റെ അഭിപ്രായത്തില്‍ ബാവ തിരുമേനിയുടെ കല്പനകളില്‍ നിന്നും പരിശുധന്മാരുടെ പേര് നീക്കം ചെയ്യുന്നത് ആവും നല്ലത്. ഇനിയും നമുക്ക് പരിശുധന്മാര്‍ ആയി പ്രഖ്യാപിക്കാന്‍ പിതാക്കന്മാര്‍ ഉണ്ടല്ലോ. അപ്പോള്‍ എല്ലാവരുടെയും പേരുകള്‍ ചേര്‍ക്കാന്‍ കഴിയുമോ?

Avarachayan said...

ജോയ്സ് പറഞ്ഞത് ശരി തന്നെയാണ്. നമ്മുടെ ഒരു തിരുമേനിമാരുടെയും നാവില്‍ നിന്ന് എല്‍ദോ ബാവയുടെ പേര് കേട്ടിട്ടില്ല. പാതൃയര്‍കീസ് വിഭാഗം ആളുകള്‍ ഉള്ള പ്രദേശം ആയതിനാല്‍ ഞങ്ങളുടെ വലിയ പള്ളിക്ക് ഒരു ചാപ്പല്‍ ഉണ്ട് എല്‍ദോ ബാവയുടെ നാമത്തില്‍. അവിടുത്തെ പെരുന്നാള്‍ നല്ല രീതിയില്‍ തന്നെ ആഘോഷിക്കുന്നു.
------- പക്ഷെ ഞങ്ങളുടെ പള്ളിയില്‍ തുബ്ദേന്‍ വായനയില്‍ എല്‍ദോ ബാവയുടെ പേര് ആദ്യം കേള്‍ക്കുന്നത് ഒരു കപ്യാര്‍ യാക്കോബായ പള്ളിയില്‍ നിന്നും ഞങ്ങളുടെ പള്ളിയിലേക്ക് സഭ മാറി വന്നു. പുള്ളിക്കാരന്‍ തുബ്ദേന്‍ വായിച്ചപ്പോള്‍ എല്‍ദോ ബാവയുടെ പേര് വായിച്ചു. അത് 2005 ഇല് ആണ്.

Thomaa Muttatheril said...

Our Saint Yeldho Mar Baselios
http://nadanmalayalee.blogspot.com/2010/07/our-saint-yeldho-mar-baselios.html

Chandichayan, Puthuppally said...

oh!! Appol Nammude Randu Visudhanmare Kalpanayude Adiyil Vachu Thudangiyathu Nammude H. H. Didymus Bava Aanalle. Athinu Munpullavarude Kalpanakalil Onnum Ivarude Peru Kanunnillallo!!!

Joshy said...

Though it not related to Yeldho Bawa, but from the readings of various kalpana issued by MOSC Catholicose from time to time show that how the way the Throne of St. Thomas evolutionised in Malankara. in the 1947 Kalpana it mentions St Thomas's throne, though not conclusive, but in 1953, it is not there in the head title, but says St. Thomas, the Patron saint of India, at the last. While in the 1974 Kalpana St. Thomas is both throne and patron saint of India, and in the two kalapan's of 1982, St. Thomas is both Throne and patron saint of India, but in the other he was no more a patron saint of India. And since the following kalpana's St. Thomas is Throne only. So Is it the throne of St. Thomas is actually emerged in 1974

George said...

Comments by Dr HG Gheevegheese Mar Julios has created more confusion. How do we canonise a saint? All the Fathers who led us right from St Thomas cannot be canonised. What is our Church policy? Is it in good taste that a Bishop gives his personal stand like this? As far as I understand, a Bishop is not an individual from the moment he is ordained as a Bishop. What comes out of his mouth should be the voice of the Church. I feel, our young Bishops need to learn a lot from Osthathios Thirumeni or Barnabas Thirumeni.

Malankara Orthodox TV said...

hii haaa, Avarachaya..... Aaa Jacobite Kappiyare kottayathekkum Niyuktha Bavaude aduthekkum onnu ayackkammooo? pullii 5 am thubthden vaayikkumpol enkkilum pulliyum thirumenii marum shesham Janangalum onnu ariyattteee, Sabah kku enganne oru Saint unddannuu. Catholica Bavakku Ariyam, Baakki ullavarkku ariyillallooo. Bava e konddu Sign eddekkunnalle oolluuu. Vayichu kelppikkunnillaalloo..


Jobi, Delhi

Avarachayan said...

പ്രിയ ജോഷി, തങ്ങള്‍ പറയുന്ന തരം "throne " ആര്‍ക്കാണ് ഉള്ളത് എന്ന് ദയവു ചെയ്തു പറയാമോ.സുഹൃത്തെ ഈ സിംഹാസനവും സഭയും ഒന്നും ദൈവം തമ്പുരാന്‍ ഉണ്ടാക്കി തന്നതല്ല. ഇതൊക്കെ അതാതു പ്രവിശ്യകളിലെ ക്രിസ്ത്യാനികളെ ഏകോപിപ്പിച്ചു കൊണ്ട് നടക്കുന്നതിനായി ഒരു ഭരണ യന്ത്രം ഉണ്ടാക്കി എന്നത് മാത്രമാണ്.

Chandichayan, Puthuppally said...

Mone Joshy,

Marthomayude Simhasanam Pande Ullathanu. Yuyakkim Coorilos polum Athilanu Irunnathu (Joseph mar Thoma yum athilanu Ippol Irippu !!!).

Pl. Visit
http://www.malankaraorthodox.tv/PMG/Throne_of_St.Thomas_report.pdf

http://www.malankaraorthodox.tv/Varghese%20John/st%20thomas%20throne.pdf

Avarachayan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Avarachayan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
appu said...

Eldho Mar Baselios Bava malankara sabhayude prakyapitha parisudhananu. Malankara Sabha ee vandhya pithavine vendathra pradanyathode kanunnundo ennu chinthikkendiyirikunu. Orthodox sabha Mar Eldho Bavave Valare pradhanythode thane kanenam, enthennal Mar Eldho Bava namukku vendiyanu malankarayilekku thante vardhakyathe avaganichupollum ethichernathu.Parisudha Bavayude perunnal sabha uchithamaya reethiyil aacharickanam. Mar Eldho Bavayude perunnal Kunnamkulam Pazhanji palliyilum, SulthanBathery Cathedralilum mattum acharikunnundu. Parisudha sabha malankara akamanam ee pithavine orkkenam. Bavayude namathil Pallikal Sthapikkanam. Perunnal kondadanam. Ethusambandhichu Catholica Bavathirumeni Kalpana purappeduvikanam.
Mar Baselios Eldho Bava kabaradangiyirikunna Kothamangalam Cheriapally Jacobaya vibhagathinte kaivashamanu eppol erikunnathu. Cheriapally caseil Orthodox sabhaku anukoolamayittanu Hon.Supreme court vidhichirikunathum. Ee vidhinadathippu harjiyanu eppol Highcourtil nadakkunnathu. Athilum Orthodox sabhaku anukoolamayitanu kodathividhikalullathu. Cheriapally sabha veendeduckenam. Ethinu veendi Thomas Paul Rambachan valare sakthamayi pravarthikkunundu.

sampariyarathu said...

Mr.Joshy ,we are not dicussing any throne issue here. There are Thrones 12 disciples of Jesus Christ! It is not Antioch giving Throne to St.Thomas or St.Peter. Mr.Joshy,if you have something to say Constructive that is most welcome! otherwise stop unneceassary and unwanted opinions! Jesus Christ promised thrones to his disciples more than 2000 years ago! some people think throne came from antioch which is not even in Christianity.Read, Acts,1:20 whereby st.Peter talks about Jude Iscariot"May someone takes his place of office of oversight".This Means Jude Iscariot has got an Overseer(bishopric) position/post which he lost,was given to Matthias by 11apostles,before Pentacost. therefore all apostles has got equal position in church and there were no supreme leader through priesthood converged into church.
All oriental orthodox heads has got their See/thrones of spiritual power.Evolutions are created in Malankara church by foreigners!!

sampariyarathu said...

In All IOC/MOSC Churches we remember HOly father Yeldho Bava In 5th Thubdhen every sunday and all worship times. moreover I noticed even in some IOC churches(i do not want reveal the places/names etc) remember Elias III bava of manjinakkara also!
we leave it all to the faithful!!

Avarachayan said...

ഹലോ sampariyarathu ഇങ്ങനെയുള്ള കാര്യങ്ങള്‍ ഒന്നും മനസ്സിലാക്കാനുള്ള മൂള ആയിട്ടില്ല ഇവര്‍ക്ക്. ഞാന്‍ പണ്ട് പറഞ്ഞത് ഓര്‍മയുണ്ടല്ലോ വാട്ട് കപ്പയും മുള്ളന്‍ ചുട്ടതും!!!!

പിന്നെ പരിശുദ്ധ എല്‍ദോ ബസേലിയോസ് ബാവയുടെ പേര് ഓര്‍ത്തഡോക്‍സ്‌ സഭ ഓര്‍ക്കുന്നത് ഇക്കൂട്ടര്‍ക്ക് ഇഷ്ടപ്പെടുന്നുണ്ട് എന്ന് കരുതുന്നുണ്ടോ? അതല്ലേ ആനക്കാര്യത്തിനു ഇടയില്‍ ചേനക്കാര്യം കൊണ്ട് വന്നിരിക്കുന്നത്.

കോതമംഗലം പള്ളിയില്‍ പോയി ധൈര്യമായി ഒന്ന് തിരി കത്തിക്കാമോ എന്ന് നോക്കിക്കേ. അവര്‍ക്ക് നമ്മള്‍ ഓര്‍ത്തഡോക്‍സ്‌കാരാണെന്ന് മനസ്സിലായാല്‍ പിന്നെ അവിടെയെങ്ങും നില്‍ക്കരുത്, ഓടിക്കൊളുക.

അതിനു വയ്യാഞ്ഞിട്ടാകും നമ്മുടെ തിരുമേനിമാര്‍ പോലും ബാവയുടെ പേര് പറയാന്‍ മടിക്കുന്നത്.

mathew said...

പരിശുദ്ധ എല്‍ദോ മോര്‍ ബസേലിയോസ് ബാവയുടെ ഓര്‍മ്മ കേവലം ഒരു കടലാസിലോ ഒരു കുര്‍ബ്ബാനയിലെ തുബ്ധേനിലോ ഇല്ലാത്തത് കൊണ്ടു എന്തിനു വേവലാതിപ്പെടണം;പരിശുധ്ഹന്റെ മധ്യസ്ഥതയില്‍ അഭയപ്പെട്ടു പ്രാര്തിക്കുന്നവര്‍ ഓര്‍ത്തഡോക്സ് കാരോ ക്രിസ്ത്യാനികളോ മാത്രമല്ലല്ലോ;പിന്നെ പരിശുദ്ധന്‍ മലങ്കര ദേശത്തു ജനിക്കാതവനായത് കൊണ്ടാകും പുതിയ സഭാ നേതൃത്വം അവഗണിക്കുന്നത്.ഇപ്പോള്‍ ഭാരതവത്കരനത്തിന്റെ കാലമാണല്ലോ("ഇന്ത്യന്‍" ഓര്‍ത്തോഡോക്സ്);
വന്ദ്യ തോമസ്‌ പോള്‍ രമ്പാച്ചന്‍ വിചാരിച്ചാല്‍ നടക്കുന്ന കാര്യമാണെന്ന് തോന്നുന്നില്ല ചെറിയ പള്ളി തിരിച്ചു പിടിക്കുക എന്നത്;പണ്ടു മണര്‍കാട് പള്ളിയില്‍ പോയ അനുഭവമാകും ;വെറുതെ നാണക്കെട്ട്

Vinson said...

This issue must not be put into a controversy , but rather we must teach and respect the life and works of St Baselios Yeldho and remember him as one of our Holy fathers

rinsam2002 said...

Dear Jaimon,
You think only MOSC after money and property? Even JSOC and yourselves are after money and property! First try to remove the log from your own eyes!!Why JSOC are creating troubles/claiming property/church?Why dont they follow Jesus teachings?No body want(both factions in Malankara church) Jesus Christ or his words/teachings!. Everybody is after money/property/richness.
if you have any creative suggestion that is most welcome!

mathew said...

it is not the matter of money or God that is discussed here?just one question?when parumala church is under our control,the jacobites donot hesitate to proclaim St.Gregorios of Parumala as the saint while IOC leadership donot even remember the Holy Saint atleast in papers just because kothamangalam church is not under control;that's the difference in attitude which should be changed by the orthodox ,each and every one of us

rinsam2002 said...

For some years I was residing out of India and was a member of church belonging to JSOC where the Vicar was hailing from north Where JSOC are very strong. This Priest never used to remember Mar Pathrose Or Mar Paulose the apostles in Kukilion or busmelko even The feast Day Of St.Peter/St.Paul he never did Doopa Pararthana(Incense prayer) He never used to give importance to even for the Apostles 13 day Lent.There was a sunday fell on 29th June the feast Apostles Peter/Paul. He did not even metioned that important day in church service. After the church service one member of his parish asked him why he did not do the incense prayers on that day,He Just replied that He had To do intercessary prayer of St.Mary.The parish member told him that he does that evey sunday what about on the actual feast Day of apostles?The Day Church celeberate as MORONAYA Perunnal?
Who is there to Teach the "pope" how to conduct Holy Mass!!
Everything is vanity!! the Priest/parish get money for conducting Intercessory prayer of St.Mary. by celeberating feast of apostles either the priest or parish does not get money!! This I am writing/posting because of "Jamon "respose/comments

Thomas said...

An un necessary controversy draging in our bava thirumeni.Instead of taking up this matter for public debate this should have been brought to the notice of the synod first.

Thomas Kuttikandathil.

Joshy said...

Dear Joice,
Why are waisting your time and money for highlighting the issue of non-recognition of Baselious Bava by the IOC leadership. The real reason very naked, money. IOC leadership wouldn't get single paisa by popularising the saint, because it is under jacobites cusotdy. So it is deliberate that IOC catholica ignores the saint time to time. If Catholica gives importance to the saint then many IOC people wold flock to Kothamangalam, that the leadership doesn't like it. Now you say IOC leadership, what about the so called Manorama which monopolised the Orthodox, has never produced single suppliment about the bawa, not even in their internet edition, while it writes many thing about Mor Ivanious of Reeth, but strategically ignores all saints who are directly linked to Antioch, Baselious bava, Abdul Jallel Bawa and to some extent Manjinikkara Bawa. So don't waist your time, write more thing about parisisng the IOC leadership.

vilsontp said...

Dear friends,
While seeing some post, I feel that MTV is doing some thing, as adding a bit in films.
By reading such posts the reader gets aroused and make us to post their response. But that finished there.

MTV should search, the end result of raising issues in MTV (whether the responses reached where it supposed to reach and what are the action /or response from the authority (not the comment from junior bishops or some committee members)) as a result.

Friends, we are celebrating 8day lent in the name of Mother Mary. As per the church this lent is not approved officially, instead the church promoting 15days lent from Aug 1 – 15 for Mother Mary. Any body stopped 8day lent. No. Any increase in popularity for 15day lent. No.

Now more and more churches are celebrating 8 day lent and most of our bishops are engaged for celebrating the feast at various churches, than celebrating 15day lent.

So, even if the name of Eldo Bava is included or avoided will not make any difference for his followers.

Similarly, nothing will happen in the mind of the people where he is their patron Saint even if the church will not canonize Pampady Thirumeni.

Also, we have great fathers like Geevarghese II Bava, Alvares Mar Julios, and Anthrayos Bava (Tomb is in Kallada Church), Mar Abo (Thevalakkara Church, Guru for kadamattathu Kathanar) I doubt how many of us heard about the last two and may be there more saintly people in our church.

So, please take the issues of more relevance and important for the present day affairs of the church. (I don’t agree all what is happening by our church hierarchy is 100% correct.) Even I know all in all of our church hierarchy with many exceptional persons are after money, power and their own position.

I request the church authority to include in the official websites, the details of such saintly people, their missions in our church and their biography (atleast short) with related photographs. It is not that only Bishops only lived saintly life and done for the sake of the church. There may be layman. Since we have plenty of researchers and persons who are having through knowledge about the church histories, must be assigned for that, so that our next generations may be having knowledge about such people.

Thanks to Joice and team for their efforts.

sam said...

Dear Avarachayan
The MOSC Kurbanakramam published in May 2002 refers.The name of H.H Yeldho Bhava is mentioned there in 5th thubden.How then The Altar Assistant(kapyar) from jacobite church can bring such thing in your Chappel/parish? Again The Living Sacrifice(Jeevanulla Bali)Kurbanakramam By C.K.Varghese published in 2000 also mention the name of H.H. Yeldho Bava in 5th thubden.Please take into account real facts for consideration!!

Avarachayan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Avarachayan said...

എനിക്കറിയില്ല ഓരോ വര്‍ഷവും അപ്ഡേറ്റ് ചെയ്യുന്ന കുര്‍ബാന ക്രമങ്ങള്‍ എല്ലാ പള്ളികളിലും എത്തുന്നുണ്ടെന്ന്. താങ്കളുടെ പള്ളിയില്‍ ചിലപ്പോള്‍ എത്തുമായിരിക്കും.

ഇത് തന്നെയാണ് മാഷേ നമ്മുടെ സഭാ നേതൃത്വത്തിന്റെ പിടിപ്പുകേട്. ഓരോ പള്ളികളിലും ചൊല്ലുന്നതും വായിക്കുന്നതും ഉപയോഗിക്കുന്നതും ആയ പ്രാര്‍ഥനാ ക്രമങ്ങള്‍ ഒന്ന് തന്നെയാണോ ?
അതോ സാമും പൊട്ടക്കിണറ്റിലെ തവളയെ പ്പോലെ ഒരു പ്രദേശം മാത്രം കണ്ടു വളര്ന്നതാണോ?

Avarachayan said...

പിന്നെ തെക്കന്‍ പ്രദേശത്തുള്ള പള്ളികളെയും വടക്കന്‍ പ്രദേശത്തുള്ള പള്ളികളെയും തമ്മില്‍ താരതമ്മ്യപ്പെടുതല്ലേ. ഇവിടുങ്ങളില്‍ പള്ളികളില്‍ ഉപയോഗിക്കുന്ന പുസ്തകങ്ങള്‍ എങ്ങിനെയാണ് ലഭ്യമാകുന്നത് എന്ന് കൂടി മനസ്സിലാക്കണം. ആരെങ്കിലും പരുമാലയിലോ മറ്റോ പോയാല്‍ വല്ല കാസേറ്റോ വല്ലതും മേടിക്കുന്ന കൂട്ടത്തില്‍ മനസ്സ് തോന്നിയാല്‍ കുര്‍ബാനക്രമം ഒരെണ്ണം മേടിക്കും . പള്ളിക്ക് വേണ്ടി കൊടുത്താല്‍ ഭാഗ്യം.

പിന്നെ ജീവനുള്ള ബലി എന്നാ കുര്‍ബാന ക്രമം സത്യം പറയാമല്ലോ ഞാന്‍ ആദ്യമായി കാണുന്നത് മൂന്നു മാസം മുന്‍പ് ഞാന്‍ പുതെന്കാവു പള്ളിയില്‍ പോയപ്പോളാണ്. അവിടുന്ന് ഞാനൊരു ചെറിയ കൊച്ചിന്റെ കയ്യില്‍ നിന്നും ഒരെണ്ണം എനിക്ക് വേണ്ടി വാങ്ങി. റഫറന്‍സ് നു നല്ല പുസ്തകമാണെന്ന് തോന്നിയിട്ട്.
അത് കൊണ്ട് സഭയുടെ മഹത്വം ഒന്നും കാണുന്നില്ല ഞങ്ങളുടെ പ്രദേശത്ത്.
പിണങ്ങരുത്, എനിക്ക് ഒരിക്കല്‍ സണ്‍‌ഡേ സ്കൂള്‍ കുട്ടികളുടെ കൂടെ കുറച്ചു സമയം കിട്ടി, നമ്മുടെ കാതോലിക ബാവയുടെ പേര് നാലാം ക്ലാസ്സില്‍ ഉള്ള ഒരു കൊച്ചു എന്താണ് പറഞ്ഞെതെന്ന് അറിയുമോ ? ബെനെടിക്റ്റ് മാര്‍ പാപ്പ .
ഇതാണ് ഉല്‍ പ്രദേശങ്ങളിലെ പള്ളികളിലെ അവസ്ഥ. മനസ്സിലാക്കാന്‍ കഴിയുമെങ്കില്‍ മനസിലാക്കുക.

അവരചായന്‍ എന്താണ് ഇങ്ങനെയൊക്കെ പറയുന്നതെന്ന് എന്ന് ചിന്തിച്ചിട്ട് കാര്യമൊന്നുമില്ല. എന്തെങ്കിലും സത്യമുണ്ടോ എന്ന് കൂടി അന്വേഷിക്കു. വെറുതെ സമയം കളയാതെ.

bino said...

Do you know that one MOSC is the holy name of Manjinikkara Bawa in Cental keralam.This bava came to india for solve the church issues, but unfortunatly our people were not respont.This high priest also not canonically approved as a saint in our church.

Sam said...

Dear JOshy,
You are again bringing another issue of Manorama newspaper herefor what?IOC/ MOSC are not owners of Manorama or manorama is not an official news paper of MOSC.About Abdul Jaleel Mar Gregorios(a.d.1665) Who came n Malankara,He is not an Antioch Partriarch or bishop!!He was not even send from antioch Partriarch.The Thaksa Mar Jaleel,used was Kaldaya/catholic order,which was printed in Rome.The Kalpana he wrote in Malankara was in Kaldaya Syriac.He used Unleavened bread in Holy Qurbana.When Antiochean Partriarch Peter III visited Malankara(Vadakkan Paravoor Church) in 1876,he(H.H.PeterIII) removed the tomb of Abdul Jaleel,from Madbaha and placed it in Hikela.The robe/dress worn by Abdul Jallel was different from Robes/dress of Antiochean Partriarchs/bishops.Abdul Jaleel was A bishop of Armenian Church which is communion with Latin Catholic church who came to Malankara from Jeusalem.His Stuaticon was not in Syriac language.
another thing for your attention,please read Augin Kurt,Journalist who wrote about Mar Elias III (Manjinikkara BaVa)log in:www.seyfocenter.com(seyfocenter Assyrian genocide1915)
Can you Respond to that!!I, myself was not able to read it in the first place!!I cannot even think about it!
First you learn church history,how the Title Partiarch come? When etc.These are not titles Given By Jesus christ or By Disciples.These are man Made thing on 4th centuary.Secondly Throne Issue! Jesus Already promised When, where,and how thrones are going to be given to his 12 Disciples.There are no Thornes for Christ's disciplesAntioch,Rome,Alexandrea,Constanipole !! There are Apostolic See(Jurisdiction of Church heirarchy)only. I would Appreciate it It very much if you can show from Bible, "Throne In Antioch" rather than telling us evolution in Malankara!
We know this(Yeldho Bava) issue Came here in MTV,brought by whom and for what Etc.!!
Many thanks for your timely advice!

Joshy said...

Avarachayo, Enthinaa kalithullunne, what about the glorified and all publiseced "vechoot" in Puthupally and Chandanappaly, avide thankal paranja sevayallle nadakkunne atho, chathan sevayo???

Joshy said...

Dear Sam,
HH Patriarch asked to remove the mortals of Abdull Jaleel Bava, Baselious Bava at Kothamangalam Pally and other churches from madhbaha was that it is the tradition of the Holy Syrian Church that Madhbah is a worhip place to GOD and priest conduct Holy Qurbana as a living body Jesus Christ, so thh remains of a deadbody cannot be seen in the sanctum sanctoriaum, rather than Abdul jallel bava was not an Antioachyan Bishop u allege. I believe u got it from Cheeranachan, a master pseudo-theologian and historian.
If Abdul Jallel Bava was not an antichian bishop then the current Malankara sabha (both IOC and JOSC0) would have followed Kaldaya Kurbanakramam in kerala. It was not introduced by HH Patriarch Patros III in 1886. Prior to that it was followed in malankara as a result of Abdul Jallel Bawa

sam said...

Dear Avarachayan,
I did not neither Blame you/nor try to humiliate you!I tried to show you some real facts.that is all, take it that way!Avarachaya like you I also came to know this "Jeevanulla Bali"kurbanakramam about 4/5 years ago.Take it this way it is our parish vicars or the Hierearchy to bring Such issues/ notices to the Parishners.Right now we have internet media whereby we come to know all these things immediately.It is better to know the situation/surroundings of our people within Kerala itself.

Dear Joshy
You always try to blame Some people especially IOC heirarchy without realising the facts. You must understand that there was a time in Malankara before it had Antiochean (Antiochean tie started after A.D.1653)ties prior to
that we used Kaldaya syriac rite. we started West syriac rite only after Partriarch Peter III visited Malankara church.Malankara Church had early connections with church In Persia and not in Antioch! There are so many people wrote Church history of Malankara.wihout reading that how can you comment on Such issue! Recently The Famous Historian SreedharaMenon passed away.If you read His book you will understand the early connections of Persian Church In Malankara.How did bishop John, who attended Synod held in Nicea represented Malankara(Indian Church)He was not from Antioch.Infact up to now I was not able to read any books/writings of
Cheeran Achan!
Joshy,you forgot about the destruction(Fire) of Malankara Church Litrugy/worship books,which was in Kaldaya/East syriac rite By Latin Arch Bishop Manesses. So take time and learn history rather blaming others!

rajanthomas said...

Dear Bino
Your comment is very good!! What peace Mission, Manjinkkara Bava brought to Malankara church? He broght more troubles In Malankara by creating severe divisions. Whatever he did while staying in Old seminary is known to everybody in Malankara!! For you people, antiocheans are holy and sacred and indians are margavasikal!!!

rajanthomas said...

Dear MTV Team
I need a correction on posting on H.H.Elias III, instead of Old seminary please read Aluva and kuruppumpady, what he(H.H. Elias III) tried to do against Vattaseeril thirumeni and malankara sabha are known to everybody and why Ougen Mar Timothios(H.H.Augen 1 Bava) left Partriarch side,joined to MOSC side.

Vayaliparamban said...

If not everybody, Thomas Pradhaman knows for sure how he became the so called Catholicos. People blame him that he studied only upto 4th standard. Well what was the reason? His health didn’t let him continue his studies. As a result, his father set him up a small shop (maada kada) near to his home when he grew up. Since he was not comfortable in keeping accounts, people cheated him and the shop was sold to someone else. Later he was sent to the M.C dayara as a kitchen hand for(Paulose Philiexinos). Later he developed his skills in rubber tapping at the Dayara. Meanwhile he also learnt Ekkara, overhearing the seminary students getting trained at the Dayara. As Paulose Philexinos got impressed, he ordained him as an Altar boy. By this time Thomas Pradhaman thought he is going to be something and he did finally became something. The saga between is well know to the world. Today the Antiochian VS clad have mugged up the story from Thomas Pradhaman that he became a Bishop since his mother got a vision from none other Patriarch Elias III – three times.
Now turning back to Patriarch Elias III, the fact of the matter was he came here for a peace mission carrying a Kalpana about peace. Now who wrote this Kalpana? He himself. Now there was a Syrian Bishop by the name Julios who was playing the role of ‘Eyago’. The Patriarch could have very well sent the Kalpana with Julios about peace. For all other silly reasons if the Antiochian clad can follow the Kalapana of Patriarch that comes to them by post, or written by someone in Malankara, why is that they need to hear it from the person who prepared it? Did anybody demand it. Now the reason why the Patriarch came to India was that he had tremendous pressure from his people in Arabia with regard to suppressing the issues, recently brought by the Assyrian Press media, and he was finding a way out to keep away from that matter and under the pretext of the peace initiative of St.Dionysius Vattasseril the Patriarch came to India.
If his intention was peace, he could have very well said that on his arrival to Bombay first, then at Arkkonam, or at Alwaye, or at Pazhaya Seminary. Finally he reached at Manjinikkara in the South. Many of our faithful were bugged about the attitude of the Patriarch but no one was bold enough to question him other than Thengumtharayil Geevarghese II Corepiscopa who went and met the Patriarch at Manjinikkara. He boldly asked the Patriarch what are you carrying this peace kalpana for? Why can’t you read it. Whom are you fearing? The Patriarch didn’t give him a convincing reply, but did what the Patriarchs are famous at, cursed the CorEpiscopa. But the CorEpiscopa gave him a proper reply and said. ‘If you curse me in the name of Lord and if I am due for it, let the Lord judge me and if not, with the sacramental authority vested in me I return the curse to you’. Indeed the curse returned to the Patriarch and he died in a matter of few hours after this episode.
Now deities are in many. Even today we have Satanic worshippers. We are not here to judge whom to worship and whom not. It is afterall an individual’s choice. Let us not get into questioning someone else’s faith. Let us be happy with what we have.

Vayaliparamban said...

If not everybody, Thomas Pradhaman knows for sure how he became the so called Catholicos. People blame him that he studied only upto 4th standard. Well what was the reason? His health didn’t let him continue his studies. As a result, his father set him up a small shop (maada kada) near to his home when he grew up. Since he was not comfortable in keeping accounts, people cheated him and the shop was sold to someone else. Later he was sent to the M.C dayara as a kitchen hand for(Paulose Philiexinos). Later he developed his skills in rubber tapping at the Dayara. Meanwhile he also learnt Ekkara, overhearing the seminary students getting trained at the Dayara. As Paulose Philexinos got impressed, he ordained him as an Altar boy. By this time Thomas Pradhaman thought he is going to be something and he did finally became something. The saga between is well know to the world. Today the Antiochian VS clad have mugged up the story from Thomas Pradhaman that he became a Bishop since his mother got a vision from none other Patriarch Elias III – three times. Contd….

Vayaliparamban said...

Now turning back to Patriarch Elias III, the fact of the matter was he came here for a peace mission carrying a Kalpana about peace. Now who wrote this Kalpana? He himself. Now there was a Syrian Bishop by the name Julios who was playing the role of ‘Eyago’. The Patriarch could have very well sent the Kalpana with Julios about peace. For all other silly reasons if the Antiochian clad can follow the Kalapana of Patriarch that comes to them by post, or written by someone in Malankara, why is that they need to hear it from the person who prepared it? Did anybody demand it. Now the reason why the Patriarch came to India was that he had tremendous pressure from his people in Arabia with regard to suppressing the issues, recently brought by the Assyrian Press media, and he was finding a way out to keep away from that matter and under the pretext of the peace initiative of St.Dionysius Vattasseril the Patriarch came to India.
If his intention was peace, he could have very well said that on his arrival to Bombay first, then at Arkkonam, or at Alwaye, or at Pazhaya Seminary. Finally he reached at Manjinikkara in the South. Many of our faithful were bugged about the attitude of the Patriarch but no one was bold enough to question him other than Thengumtharayil Geevarghese II Corepiscopa who went and met the Patriarch at Manjinikkara. He boldly asked the Patriarch what are you carrying this peace kalpana for? Why can’t you read it. Whom are you fearing? The Patriarch didn’t give him a convincing reply, but did what the Patriarchs are famous at, cursed the CorEpiscopa. But the CorEpiscopa gave him a proper reply and said. ‘If you curse me in the name of Lord and if I am due for it, let the Lord judge me and if not, with the sacramental authority vested in me I return the curse to you’. Indeed the curse returned to the Patriarch and he died in a matter of few hours after this episode.
Now deities are in many. Even today we have Satanic worshippers. We are not here to judge whom to worship and whom not. It is afterall an individual’s choice. Let us not get into questioning someone else’s faith. Let us be happy with what we have.

Joshy said...

Dear Sam,
You said only oneside stroy of the fact propounded by the MOSC leadership since 1970s only, can you show any writing by any historians who wrote malankara sabha history prior to 1935(constitution)period(not the current peole who wrote about it, but actually it was wrtitten and published before that) that Malanakara sabha had continued Kaldaya connection during the Pre-1563 period. What Sreedhra menon said was there was a connection between Persian church and maklankara. Yes it is right, that is why a Kaldaya syrian christian exist in Malanakara today. but tell me when did the split occured of the Current Antioakyan rite and Kaldaya rite between these two communitees, not at the time of Koonankurisu satyam,because it was between Lattin Rite and Antiochian rite and what stand took by the current Kaladaya community at that time.
And it is absolutely wrong that the cuurent Qurbanakramam was introduced by Pathrose III patriarch, better you get clarification from the seminary proffessors. Then what about the Knanaya, i belive you and your people would say Kananayi Thoma was as Kaldaya trader. Because IOC wanted to project that malankara church had followed kaladaya tradition.
I would ask you one simple question that now you say Malankara church carry the yoke of Antiochya which introduced in Malankara by either Abdul Jaleel bawa or HH Patrirch Pathrose III(there is no unanimity among MOSC about it)and turn all your criticism againt Antiochya, then what would have happend if the so called Kaldaya connection continued in Malankara toady and the current cases continue between East Syrian Church vs MOSC? I belive u would have said that Malankara church had continued the relationship with Antioch and not with East Syria(Assyria)in the pre-Koonankurishu Styam. Because You people wanted to reject the tradition and history.

sam said...

Dear Joshy you and your Jacobite always teach that Priesthood/Liturgy came from Antioch asb from A.D.52. You can follow that.You people even say KnaiThoma was sent By Antiochean Partriarch to Malankara With A Bishop and two deacons! However There are no history to prove that These Bishop who came here with Knai thoma ordained any Priest in Malankara. Even The robes/dress worn by Malankara Priests were totally different from Antichean dress/robe prior to 1653.
The Truth Is This Malankara Church got Connection/Relation with Antiochean Church Only after Coonan Cross Oath.
There were no Antioch(West syrian)bishop or Priest never been In Malankara prior to 1653. The Cases started in Malankara By The Followers of Antiochean Heirarchy in Malankara.you also try to learn how did the first and second samudaya case originated and who were the petitioners!
We are not rejecting any tradition /history. we are accepting the truth of Malankara Church history from A.D.52.At the same time we reject the false stories/history formulated by Antiochean Followers in Malankara for their own glorifications.

sam said...

Dear Joshy

Prior To the Udayamperoor Synod in 1599 Malankara was follwing Kaldaya rite/East syriac rite.
The west syriac rite in Malankara began after A.D.1685.The Bishop who came with H.H.Yeldho bava,Mar Ivanois Hidaytulla in the year 1688/89 with mutual understanding with MarthhomaIV started five fundamental aspects of faith such as Heaven (to oppose Catholic faith),Lahamo(The Leavened bread in Holy qurbana),Fasting on Wedneday&Friday,and concerning Holy sipirit(opposing catholic faith) and the rest were In East Syriac.The roman catholics tried to force Malankara church to follow Latin Kaldaya rite and the R.C rite of Rome.These were totally rejected by Malankara Church by .As per the understanding of Marthoma IV and Mar Hidaytulla. In Faith to follow West Syriac rite and in worship to follow East syriac.It was Marthoma IV who requested Antiochean Partriarch to to send some clergy to teach the faith in Malankara.therefore Mar Sakralla Mafriyana team arrived in Malankara A.D.1751.
West Syrian rite both in faith/worship, dress/robes,etc came in force in A.D.1788 as per the Agreement between MathomaVI(mar Dionyasius) Mar Ivanios at Mavelikkara puthiyakavu Pally.The advanced in(both north and south of Kerala) west syrian rite began A.D. 1795 when Kadumangattu Mar kooriloseII started theological studies/education In Mulanthurithy church and Vettikkal church
Mavelikkara padiyola of 1788 mentions two 'kramam',old kramam(Kadaya rite)and New rite(west syriac) in faith and order.
These are the fats and they are not one side of the coin!

sam said...

Mr.Joshy,
For you whatever Your Church Heirarchy says are the history Of Malankara! Like Catholic Church wanted their people only to read the Bible prescibed/ Officially declared by Catholic church.You Never try to read or study History Of Mankara Church written by Other historians other than KaniyamprambilChor Episcopa or MoolAyil Achan/chor-episcopa.
what you are trying to make here is that throne issue and evolution or history written by MOSC people.
Late Fr.V.C. Samuel was a great scholar and teacher. There Are other People who wrote History Such as Rev.P.T Geevarghese(late Mor Ivanios of Malankara catholic Rite) and Rev. Inchakalodi of malankara catholic rite,Z.M. Parett,E.M. Philip,Ittoop Riter etc.
Coming to the point,The Udayamperoor Synod held in 1599 was called by Latin catholic Arch bishop Menessis.And if you read carefully the 24 Synod decisions(canons) made by the Synod Udayamperoor,you will understand the Liturgy used by Malankara Church prior in Malankara
It Was East syriac Liturgy which was in use by Malankara Church

You have not tried to show any evidence that Malankara church and west Syriac/Antiochean rite were in use prior to Coonan cross oath.We are Not propagating against antiocheans. The antiochean or west syriac Rite we accepted after coonan cross oath, as it was mainly corresponding with East syriac Rite which wasin Malankara before Udayamperoor Synod.
As I have already explained in my previous blogs That is the truth!!
Further more,this blog is created for not dicussing issues of Kaldaya History in Malankara!!

sam said...

Dear Joshy,It is not present Kaldaya community in Kerala who brought chirstianism in Malankara.Although malankara church had early connections with persian church,it had only accepted the first Three Ecumenical synods.Even In Persia There were two groups of Christians (1) Who has not followed Nestore teachings (2)Who followed Nestore teachings from A.D.431.The Christians who has not followed Nestore teachings were under catholicate of Persia. again in A.D.1490 four(4) nestorian bishops came in Malankara.Their liturgy and worship were different from Persian Church(which malnkara followed originally)and therefore Malankara church had nothing to with Kaldaya community(who followed Nestorian rite)in Kerala/Malankara.It is not the way you try to complicate the issue by saying that there is no unanimity among historians!!If West Syriac liturgy wasin use In Malankara prior to 1599,there was no need for Rev. Konattu Mathen Malpan Chor episcopa to edit and publish
"PampaKuda namaskarakramam'in malayalam with Antiochean partriarch Kalpana dated A.D.1910,Edavam 30th from Srai church ,with preface from Malnkara malpan konattu Mathen Chor-episcopa dated 1927, meenam 15th Ephesuschurch,pampakuda.Complete/entire West syriac rite of liturgyof present day (Kurbana kramam) was introduced in Malakara by Mar Yooyakim Coorilose during1843-1875.

sam said...

Dear Joshy,The articles and responses of Dr.M.Kurien Thomas in MTV are giving more lights regarding the West Syriac rite in Malankara Orthodox Church; when ,where and how the liturgy came in use by the present both factions in Malankara!

rinsam2002 said...

Dear All
As I said Earlier There is nothing wrong in H.H.Catholicose Kalpana/bull must contain the name of Yeldho Bava's name as L/L H.H. Bava is being Honoured and remembered in Holy Qurbana of MOSC,especially In 5th Thubden!
It is very difficult to mention all names of Holy father's of Church in a Bull/Kapana and it is not a must even to mention the names of saints In Malankara like Parumala Thirumeni and Vattasseril Thirumeni.

In My conclusion this is not an issue to be brought up for dicussion/comments as there other important/pressiing issues are there for dicussion or comments
MTV team please look on such pressing Issues!!!
There are many Important feasts(Moranaya Perunnal)being neglected by many priests in MOSC. This Year another thing I noticed Out side India,the Father's day(20Th June) came/being celeberated in various places/parishes of MOSC with Sumptous food(withMeat,Fish,and Egg)during 13 Day lent(Lent Of apostles).Another issue the New Year Day celeberations!Out side India Many parishes are conducting Holy Qurbana on eve of( 31st Dec)January 1st. The Holy Qurbana on Eve of new year day being celeberated not with Enough preparations as directed by H.Synod,celeberated in a hasty way and after participating H.Qurbana the faithful including Altar servers/altar assistants, go to attend other night clubs programmes/drinking bars, Alcohol/Dancing etc.
Let The Sinless throw the stones at first!

eldhose said...

NINGAL ANTHUVA E PARAYUNNATHU.KADAM MEDICHATHAKUMBOL CHILAPPOL CHILA KARYANGAL MARANNU ANNU VARUM.CHATHURUTHIL THIRUMENIYA KADAM KONDATHANENKILUM CASE NADATHU NNATHINU NALLA VARAVU KITTINNATHU KONDU MARAKKATHATHALLE......VATTASERIL PINNE KAI ETTU VARANU PALLIKAL POOTIKANNUM(KULATHOZHIL)PADIPICHATHU KONDU ANGERAYEYUM MARAKILLA.KOTHAMANGALAM PALLIYIL NINNUM CASE NADATHAN VARAVU KITIIYAL PINNE APPOZUM KOTHAMANGALAM BAVA YE ORTHOLUM.NALLA REETHIYIL KOTHAMANGALAM PALIIYIL VAANU POYAL ORU KUZHAPPAVUM ARUM UNDAKILLA,PINNE THOMAS PAUL KANICHA PANIKANU VARUNNATHENKIL VANNAPPOL UNDAYA ANUBHAVAM ANGERODU CHODHICHITTU VANNAL MATHI.NANAKEDU KONDU MUZHUVAN PARAYILLENKILUM.KURACHOKKEPARANJU THARUM.APPANE KONDU VANNU THALLIYITTITU POYA STHALAM ANVESHICHU SEMITHERI MUZHUVAN KARANGI NADAKUNNATHU KANDITTU KOTHAMANGALATHU KAR POTTICHIRICHATHU EPPOZUM ORKUNNU.ALLENKILUM 1912 VATTASERRY THATTIKOOTIYA KANJIKUZHI SABHAYKU(BHARATHIA SABHAKU)ARABI ANNU NINGAL VILICHU KALIYAKUNNAVARE ANGANE ORKANA?

Nirmala Press PTA said...

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Nirmala Press PTA said...

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