Wednesday, July 28, 2010

Constitutions of Syriac Orthodox Church of Antioch (SOCA) and Jacobite Syrian Christian Church (JSCC). A Comparative Study by Vipin K. Varghese, S. Pampady.

 Constitutions of Syriac Orthodox Church of Antioch (SOCA) and Jacobite Syrian Christian Church (JSCC). A Comparative Study by Vipin K. Varghese, S. Pampady.
Constitutions of Syriac Orthodox Church of Antioch (SOCA)
Constitutions of  Jacobite Syrian Christian Church (JSCC).

39 comments:

Chandichayan, Puthuppally said...

Syriac Orthodox Church of Antioch (SOCA) Constitutionil Methrachante Makkalkku Veetham Kodukkunna karyam Okke Undallo. Anthyokyayil Methranmarkku Kalyanam kazhikkamo?

Enkil Pinne Nammude Barthaloma Methrachanu (Ankamaly, Gurgan) Antiochyakku Poyal Porarunno?

George said...

THE SOCA CONSTITUTION, AS I UNDERSTAND FROM THE ARTICLE BY ATHANASIUS THIRUMENI, DOES NOT PROVIDE FOR A METROPOLITAN OR CATHOLICOSE FROM MALANKARA ELIGIBLE TO BECOME A PATRIARCH.THIS WOULD BE THE TRUTH. IN THIS CONTEXT, I DISTINCTLY REMEMBER AN INTERIVEW WITH HH SAKKA IWAS IGNATIUS I TELECAST IN SHALOM TV ABOUT A YEAR BACK. THERE WAS A QUESTION ON THE CHANCES OF AN INDIAN BECOMING THE NEXT PARTRIARCH. HH REPLIED QUITE POSITIVELY THAT THERE IS NO DIFFICULTY AND THAT HE WOULD BE HAPPY TO HAVE AN INDIAN AS THE NEXT PATRIARCH. THE SAID INTERVIEW WOULD CERTAINLY BE AVAILABLE WITH SHALOM. A CROSS CHECKING WOULD BE BETTER PERHAPS.

Avarachayan said...

Barthaloma Methrachan ഇന്ത്യക്കാരനല്ലേ. ഇന്ത്യക്കാര്‍ക്ക് സിറിയയില്‍ ചെന്നാല്‍ എന്താ പണി? വായില്‍ നോട്ടം. അന്തോക്യന്‍ മെത്രാന്മാരുടെ കല്യാണ സദ്യക്ക് വേണമെങ്കില്‍ ഉപ്പു വിളമ്പാം. അല്ലാതെ വേറെ ഒരു കാര്യത്തിനും ഇന്ത്യക്കാരെ അവരുടെ ഭരണ ഘടന അനുവദിക്കുന്നില്ല.

Avarachayan said...

ഹലോ ഓര്‍ത്തഡോക്‍സ്‌കാരെ, Syriac Orthodox Church of Antioch ക്ക് ഒരു ഇന്ത്യക്കാരനെ പാതൃയര്‍കീസ് ആക്കണമെങ്കില്‍ ഭരണഘടനയൊന്നും പ്രശ്നമല്ല. പിന്നെ സിറിയക്കാരും തുര്‍ക്കിക്കാരും ഒക്കെ മനസ്സ് വെക്കണം എന്നേയുള്ളു.

പിന്നെ ഇതൊക്കെ അവരുടെ അഭ്യന്തര കാര്യങ്ങള്‍.

Chandichayan, Puthuppally said...

Thomas I Bava Pathrikkeesayittu Venam Malankara Sabhayil Samadhanam Undakan!!!

Avarachayan said...

തോമസ്‌ പ്രഥമന്‍ വിചാരിച്ചാല്‍ നടക്കവുന്നതേ ഉള്ളു . തെക്കേക്കരയും സിമെന്റ് ജോയിയും ഇപ്പോഴും ഉണ്ടല്ലോ.

sam said...

In The Stuasticon Of Thomas I It is stated That Antioch Partriarch occupy The High Seat Of St.Peter
This has no basis as All Disciples of Jesus Christ are equal and the Same. Morever When Zebedi(father of James/John)asked Jesus Christ to give James and John seats on right and left in Jesus Glory Jesus reply was "It belongs to to those for whom it has been preared for"It is not Christ who Give that
seats.Again he said "who ever becomes great among you ,must be your Servant(minister),and who ever want become to be First among you must be slaves of all". Jesus Christ an high priest himself showed the example By Washing the feets of his 12 disciples.
If they (antiochean) can explain how this High seat was given to them

sam said...

Dear George
This Antioch Partriarchs are very cunning.They will say somethings according to Chameleon changes its color according to surroundings!
Even L.L. H.H. Yakoob III also said/wrote about St.Thomas like that!!

sam said...

Whatever discrepancieas are there in the constituition SOCA, the JSCC in Malankara will follow the Throne In Anioch!!For them Anioch is their Father!! "Ammaye NjngalMarannalum Antiokyaye marakkukilla!"

Joshy said...

Dear Sam,
If Vattasseril Thirumeni had alived today, HG would have given the "right" answer to you question

Jeemon said...

Ente Joshi!!!

Saminte e commentinu marupadi parayan kalam cheythupoya vattasseril thirumeni thanne venam ennullathu ethiri kadanna kai ayipoyallo...epo ullathil onnum elle? ethinu utharam tharan kelppu ullath? arum ellell namuk gurgane vilikkam...muvattupuzha,mannuthi vazhi onnu karangiyal pore...Gurgane evide kittum..........

Avarachayan said...

സാം പറഞ്ഞതില്‍ എന്താണ് തെറ്റ് ? അത്ന്തോക്യന്‍ വികാരത്തിന്റെ മറയില്ലാതെ ഒരു യാക്കോബായ സഭയുണ്ടോ? പക്ഷെ ഒന്ന് മനസിലാക്കുക, വിദേശികള്‍ ഇന്ത്യ യെ ഭരിക്കാന്‍ ഇട വന്നത് എങ്ങിനെയാണ്? അന്നും ഇവിടെ സ്വന്തം രാജ്യത്തെ ഒറ്റു കൊടുക്കുന്നവര്‍ ഉണ്ടായിരുന്നു, അത് പോലെ ഈ രാജ്യത്തിന്റെ സ്വന്തം ജനതകള്‍ ആയ പുരാതന ക്രിസ്ത്യാനികളെ - AD 52 ഇല്‍ ഒരു പ്രത്യേക സഭയോന്നും ഇവിടെ ഇല്ലായിരുന്നു - എങ്കിലും പാവം ക്രിസ്ത്യാനികള്‍ ഉണ്ടായിരുന്നു.- പൌരോഹിത്യം തന്നു എന്ന പേരില്‍ ഇപ്പോഴും ഈ പാവങ്ങളെ സിരയാക്കാര്‍ക്ക് ( സോറി - ശീമ ) ഒറ്റു കൊടുക്കരുതേ , ഒരു അപേക്ഷ യാണ്.

Joshy said...

Mr. Jeemon,
Njan paranjathinte porul ningalkku manassilayilla. Apart from Bishops there are hundreds of people who can give credible xplanation to Sam. But if I would say or any bishop then you people wouldn't recognise it because we are jacobites. However, if the father of your church gives then oly u people understand it the importance of Antioch in Malankara.

Joshy said...

Dear Joice,
There is some contradiction in the pages of the book u published in this site. I dont know much the details about the the writngs about vattasseril thirumeny especially the talk between him and Panikkarachan. But the description given in page 11 para 2 deals with comparison of malankara sabha's independance and India's freedom moovement. And the auther of the said book compare this issue as Vattasseril thirumeny's dialogue. But here there is a problem, as they talk about india's Swadeshi movement and Malankara Sabha's independance and period could be around 1910 to 1 or 2 years or something later till 1925.
But the problem is that during this period India was not sought Independance from the British, anbd at that time india was seeking a dominion status. The swadeshi movement actually began in the 1930s when Gandhiji took over the President ship of Indian National Congress in late 1920s. And actually the swadeshi movement statrted after civl didobediance in 1932. So in any case during the vattasseril thirumeni's time no one expected India would get independance, the idea brought in late 1930s only. So the comparison of India's swadeshi movement and Malankara sabhas's independance through the eys of vattasseril thirumeni is totally rubbish,So it cannot be authenticated. If any doubt swadeshi movement better u chack with any historians.So it could be the imagination of the author about the talk between Vattasseril Methran and panickarachan

vilsontp said...

Dear JSOC friends,
If you are happy with Anthiokia, you enjoy, but the constitution of the Syrian Church says, you and your fathers in Christ can go and attend and elect the Patriarch but your father in Christ cannot become Patriarch (do you people are illegimate children of Antiochian church Because I don’t think there will be any other church or organization have partiality among their members at least in written constitutions). Which means your H.Q at Damascus need your subscription and donation to become bishops (from bishops aspirant) only to survive. Still some people go there and do the job in the Partiarchal palace in Damascus and waiting for their turn to become a bishop and still going. Otherwise why some of your priests are transferred to Damascus. There are not enough Syrian and Iraqi Syrian orthodox priests there for the purpose.

All the best for you, but we don’t need it, we have our father in Christ from here only and any one of the member of our church can reach to the highest office of our church based on the qualification and qualities and not based on nationality or creed.

vinup said...

If any body is belive in appotolic chruch, there is no doubt MOSC has its own debt to Unversal Syrian Orthodox chruch in anthioc. Because the appostolic heirarcy is from anthioc. Stil all the members of mosc, claims as they are orthodox becaucse they are in the line up of anthiocan appostolic sucession. (Whether they are banned from Holy Synod of anthioc that is another part). So without Syrian Orthodox chruch of anthioc MOSC has no appostoic heirarcy has an orthodox chruch. Even vattaseril thirumeni wil not deny it because he was ordianed by Abdulla partiarch. Because vatteseril thirumeni knows what is appostolic sucession and what is temperoral powers very well and its diffrence. Those who deny the appostolic heirarcy received to him will automatically loose his status. This is not from court, this is received from heavenly father. No temperoral powers can be placed on behalf of appostolic sucession. Those who deny the line up of appostolic sucession, later there chance to deny even jesus chirst from where this gift was given to each and every one through the appostiles. Fourtunately or Unfoutunately, for good or bad we syrian orthodox peoples got this line up from anthioca. No body is questioning, jesus christ or appostles, why they give appostolic gift to malankara. They were also as per MOSC foregioners. Because we got this from jesus chirst through appostles. By nationality and by birth they were no malankara peoples or bharathiyans. They where from Middleeast. (in words of MOSC , arbikal. So St thomas was arabi, all appostles was arabies). Sholomo

mohanmathew said...

I think it is important to discuss the JSCC constitution. In that bishops and priests are Palli Thozhilalikal. Becasue teh church and the Faith of the Chuch can be decided by the laity. For example. if any Jacobite chruch decides to join Catholics there is nothing in the JSCC constitution that can stop them. Therefore priests are only casual labourers there.

sam said...

Dear JOsy,and Jeemon
it is not sam Who are Against Jacobites!Now you are siding with Vattasseril thirumeni for what? Can you Guys tell me anything from Bible regarding Throne in Antioch?Jesus Christ never sent his apostles to establish thrones anywhere in earth.How come you guys teach that St.Peter established his throne in Antioch in A.D.37? can you show me any bible verse in support of this heresy?
If you Wacth Google/You Tube there are some Holy Qurbana vedeo exhibits "Jacobite Blood" What is jacobite blood?Is that Jacobite who shed blood in calvary? Is that jacobite blood that shed for Redumption of human beings?
It is Just like Muslim fundamentals you people behave. nothing else!
Pilate,the roman governor ang King heroda were enemies but in order to kill Jesus,and get suppoert of jews, they two became friends.
It is the same way You peple are behaving right now,in order to conceal the truth you will sideline with anybody anything/anywhere.
Why do you people blame The Bishops of Muvattupuzha/mannoothi here?It was your Holy fatheres who taught them! what ever happened/what ever they did were in the history of power struggle in Antioch."Ullathu paranajal Uralum Chirrkkum"

sam said...

Dear Vinoop
The apostolic succession In Malankara did not come from Antioch! St.Thomas, The apostle preached gospel here in Malankara and not by Aiochean Bishops. In antioch also apart from St.Peter other apostles preached Gospel,including St.Paul and St.Barnabas(The emissary)After the combined hardwork of St.paul,and Barnabas fore more than a year The follwers of Christ were called Christians In Antioch(read Acts11:19-26)
Due to the persecution by Foreiners like Potugese and other European Nations to Convert Malankara Christians to Latin and Roman catholic rite/churches,by force,we had to depend on Syrian church(antioch)to preserve our faith and tradition of St.thomas christians.It is true we depended on them and they also helped us. This does not mean that we,Malankara church are successors of Apostolic faith from St.Peter. Mar Yakkob Burdana due to persecution of church in Antioch
Went Alexandrea and ordained/consecrasted as Bishop!
This does not mean that Yakkoob Burdana Is succssor of Apostolic throne St.Mark of alexandrean church.The priest hood in Church of Christ not converged through single apostle of Jesus.All apostles have their priesthood in christ, that is orthodox Faith and tradition.The apostle Paul and Barnabas was ordained as priests by not St.Peter.read acts 13:1-3.
Even now MOSC accept Antiochean Partriarch as spiritual father.
St.Thomas And All other apostles were Jews ant not arabs.It is The Gifts of Truine God /spiritual gifts in Apostoilc succession.

Avarachayan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sam said...

Dear Joshy and Jeemon,
I did not put a question to be answered in this blog! I have made a comment which is truth for Jacobites!When Vattasseril Thirumeni went To Mardeen to Antioch Partriarch and apologised and begged for Pardoning him what did your Holy father did? Don't forget that.
On the Otherhand you people always blame Vattasseril thirumeni for all litigations/problems In Malankara church.
As Jacobites none of you are talking about any discrepencies in The constituition of SOCA as you cannot raise any voice against Them(antiocheans)and their constituition.!You raise voices against MOSC heirarchy and always try to riducule and blame them for problems caused by Antiocheans in Malankara!
It is not Malankara church who created Problems in Arch diocese of universal Syrian orthodox church in North America as well as south America.
The problems Of Mar Goorgan in Germany started before his Consecration In Kerala by Mar Athanasius and Mar Milithiose. why did Fr.Eldhose Kaughmanpallil join with Mar Goorgan In U.K.?
Can you people blame MOSC for all these problems of Universal Syrian orthodox church?
First of all try to remove the log from your own Eyes!Then come to clean eyes of others!!
Who denied Jesus Christ and the Gifts of Spirit! who started selling Holy Mooron(Oil)?
Don't waste your time here for unnecessary issues. It is better to contribute on current issues brought by MTV for comments!!

Terry said...

Christhuvil valla prabhodhanavum undenkil, snehathinte valla aaswasavum undenkil, aathmavil valla koottaaymayum undenkil, valla aardrathayum manassalivum undenkil, ningal eka manassullavaraayi ekasneham poondu aikyamathyappettu ekabhaavamullavaraayi ingane ente santhosham poornamaakkuvin. Shaadyathalo dhurabhimaanathalo onnum cheyyathe thaazhmayode ororuthan mattullavane thannekkaal sreshdan ennu ennikkolvin. Ororuthan SWANTHAGUNAMALLA MATTULLAVANTE GUNAM KOODI NOKKANAM...

PHILIPPIANS 2: 1-4

sam said...

Dear Terry
The Bible versus that you quoted are meant for what? Can you tell us the significance of these verses regarding the Constituition matters of SOCA And JSCC?

Terry said...

Sam,
As a Christian, we all have the responsibility for being a good role model to the other people. There are different platforms in the net to blame the Jacobites and also blame the Orthodox. I was born and raised in a Jacobite family and I dont think the Almighty God given me any right to blame anyone enlse but myself.My Mother, my grand mother, my sister and my wife are Orthodox and I dont think they are sinners because they were born or send to the Orthodox families. Blaming each other doesn't make any difference but get some mental satisfaction to the person who is blaming and some irritation to the person who is facing the accuse. I was hearing this kind of things since I was a little child and I haven't seen any difference because of that. How long we are going to continue this??? Do we have any responsibility to hold the Christian witness in this world? Please don't steriotype me as a Pentacostal person.....because there is a common belief in the society that the Orthodox or Jacobite should not talk about Jesus or his words but physical and verbal fight....think about it Mr. Sam.

sam said...

Dear Terry
I did not Deliberately blame any body who posted comments here.I did not try to humiliate or blame the whole jacobites here in this forum.I had responded to whom made some funny/unwanted commemts here. You respect The both in Malankara church because of your family connections/relations. But I respect Everybody who deserve it.my policy is to give respect and earn respect.
but those who try to beliitle/humiliate others because of heretic teachings I cannot respect them.
The apostolic succession of St.Thomas cannot be doubted at all. Apostle St.Thomas was sent to Malankara By Holy Spirit and not By St.Peter in Antioch.Apostolic succession of Priesthood in Church of christ is through Jesus Christ,the Eternal High Priest.
I respect and honour all 12 apostles equally in church of Christ.

vilsontp said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Eldho said...

I don't understand why my Jacobite brothers are not addressing the issues relating to JSCC & SOCA constitution. When this discussion started I was eager to know what explanation they are goin to make. It seems drafters of JSCC constitution, had't seen the SOCA constitution; perhaps they were not aware at that time that SOCA had a constitution.

eldhose said...

jesus christ said to st.peter PATROSA NEE PARAYAKUNNU NINDA PARAYIL NJAN ANDA SABHAYA PANIYUM.
athe pathorosakunna paramel jesus thande sabhaya panithu.A D 37 il pathrose anthyokayil thande simhasanam sthapichu .a simhasanathil daivathal nilanirtha pettu porunna njangaluda patriarch aya MORAN MOR IGNATHIYOS SAKHA IVAS BHAGYAMODE VAANARULUNNU.we hav no doubt about our apostholic succession.pinne ningal anthinu ningal njangaluda constitution ne patti avalathipedanem.we jacobites lamans hav full control in our church but we not mis use that right.thats the understanding bw our church leaders and the laymans.thats the democratic face of our church.but in orthadox church the complete power is situvated in the church leaders the laymen and the church had no power.athayathu church leaders chadikalikeda kunjurama annu paranjal chadikollenam. athippol gurgan nda koodayanenkil polum ningal athu anusarikendi varum.orikal polum pakuthi power polum ningalku tharilla thannal annanu orthadox sabhayuda avasanem.anthokeyanenkilum ningalku ariyam patriarch thanneyanu suriyani sabhayuda thalavan.ellenkil ningaluda constitution nil ninnum patriarch anna word neekan dairayamundo? court ethina thalliparayan ninialku dairyamundo?

sam said...

Dear Eldhose.There are no thrones for Disciples of Christ in this world,or they did not establish thrones on earth.It is not only St.Peter who preached gospel In Antioch but also other apostles including st.Paul and Barnabas(read acts of Apostles 11:19-26)Jesus Christ sent his apostles on "Mission" (read Mathew28:18-20).
Again the church of Jesus Christ was formed on the faith of confession made by St.Peter.(Faith is the rock in which church is built)and not hunan beings.(read Ephesians 2:20-21)Christt is the Cornerstone and main Foundation stone,apostles and prophets are the fondation stones of Church.
also read Revelation 21:10-15

Regarding your Comments on Constituition of SOCA/JSCC,you think that you are so clever,time will show/prove you that!!You said that Bishops/partriarchs who are sitting on thrones in Antioch are Blessed ones!Others are either cursed or Unblessed. kindly read Mathew,12:37,20:16,19:30.

Eldho said...

Dear Eldhose, You are still evading from the topic. As regards SOCA constitution, I could not find any thing democratic. It does not provide for any role for laymen. When it comes to JSCC, situation has been something where shepherds being led by flocks

rinsam2002 said...

Dear Eldho
As I Said Earlier Mr.Eldhose other Jacobite counterparts know how to chant their EmotionalAnthem/or song and how to critisize the Malankara orthodox faction based on untrue/unorthodox/ heretic teachings!
Apart from "Throne"there is nothing important for them. In Galatians2:9, St.Paul the apostle desribes The Trios(Peter,James,and John)as pillars of church.How come then Our Jacobites preach, Peter the apostle is the foundation rock?St.Peter himself (1Peter 5:1)
addressed/called as An ELDER among OTHER ELDERS of Church!
Acts13:1-3 mentions the ordination of Saul(St.Paul)and Barnabas. there was no mention of St.Peter there or his Throne.Again Acts14:23 It was st.Paul,and Mar Barnabas together appointed elders(Priests)for each congregation in various placeslikeDerbe,Iconium,Lystra,Phyrga ,Pamphylia,Psidia etc.

eldhose said...

Dear friends 19 th century vare anthyokya simhasanam ningalku priyapeuathayirunnu.ningaluda poorva pithakan mar allam anthyokya simhasanathil ninnulla
pourohithyam swekarichu ponnu.pinne anthinu vendiyanu oru marthoma simhasanam thatti kootiyathennu commen sence ulla athoralkum manasilakum.St.Thomas day ku polum oru qurbana pally kalil arpikathavaralle ningal. marthoma christians anu polum. ! njan veendum chodhikunnu anthyokya patriarch na court il thalli parayano, anthyokya patriarch nda peru ningaluda constitution+nil ninnum neekam cheyan nigalku dairyamundo? anthyokya patriarch neenal vazhatte.

vilsontp said...

Mr. Eldose,
Due to the situations we indian ruled by various foriegn Nations. Still it happens in Iraq and Afganistan. It does not mean that We should always be the humble slave for That countries. There is no fault in remembering their name or their good work ( can u deny the good works done by foriegners done here during their days)
Then Indian constution itself give me the right to follow in a religion which i prefer may it pentecost, reeth, MSOC or JSOC . Regarding the comments here in this dias, first you go and check the publications by JSOC and stop publishing nonsenses against MSOC and its leaders then automaticaly such things will stop here.
If you need JSOC you enjoy but i dont need the permission to be a memeber of MSOC or for the function of MSOC

sam said...

Dear Eldhose
First of All try to learn Malankara Church Histiory.It Is Not Antiochean Throne or its Prelates Came here in Malankara for Spreading Gospel. St.Thomas Preached Gospel in Malankara And Malankara had ties with Persian Church founded by St.Thomas.The relation beteween Malankara and antioch came after1653.There were no Antiochean Bishops came in Malankara prior to that.

Here we did not make any Throne.Like St.Peter all, 11 Apostles have their thrones.It is Jesus Christ who Promised thrones to his disciples for Judging 12 tribes of Israel on his second coming in Glory.
First of all try to remove log from your own Eyes.Then you try to remove straw from your neighbours eye.We Don't make publicity for conducting Services on 3rd July/or in Dec 21 wherby church celeberate St.Thomas Day!
We respect and recognise Antioch Partrarch subject to Our 1934 constituition whch was based on Hoodoya canon principles and we still follow that.
Even in 1958 we aknowleged the Partriarch Yakkob III subject 1934 constituition.Supreme Court also insisted that!

We donot need to Show Jacobites or Catholics church that who claims to be St.Thomas Christians And treat St.Thomas as a preacher only in Church! We did celeberate Holy Qurbana on 3rd July all over the world.But we did not publish in Newspaper/other media as we don't need that publicity.
MOSC constituition amend ment/alterations can be done through Malankara Suriyani Christani Association! we are not afraid of anybody.It is not Antiochean Partriarch who made/drafted 1934 constituition
any time If Majority our members decide we can make alterations/or amendments. The Isuue Here for comments are Constituition of SOCA/JSCC. Ifv you have something to tell about it you can tell/contribute.Otherwise we do not need your baseless,irresponsible,unwanted comments/accusations as we are not interested in entertaining you here any more!!
Also note that Priesthood is not monopoly right of Antiochean Partriarch alone. Christ's priest hood is not converged through St.Peter alone in church!!

Eldho said...

MOSC has no legal obstacle to remove everything relating to Patriarch from its constitution; nor any fear or concern. Malankara Association has full authority to amend the constitution to that effect. If it is done nothing will happen as many think. All remarks by the courts regarding Patriarch’s position in MOSC are based on relevant clauses in the constitution itself. Then, the question is why patriarch is still there? (Despite demands by many in MOSC). As far as I understand MOSC never wanted to have that relationship terminated for ever; doesn’t want to keep its doors closed against the possibility of peace and unity in the Malankara Church. Propaganda to the contrary is nothing but a Geibelsian tactics being implemented by Jacobite brothers and their media (only few extremists among them).

vilsontp said...

Mr. Eldo, Due to some extremist people in JSOC and MSOC are the main hurdle in becoming one church or separate church.

So nothing will happen even if we cry or pray separately or together, even the top church officials canot change anything in this case.

Weeds become bigger than the crop. Now no body is able to remove the weeds and make fire or no body is interested in it.

Only thing, after reading the comments here and in JSOC publications are just angry and irritation to the writer for some time after that all of us go for our personnel matters .

God bless MSOC , JSOC and all churches and all human being

sam said...

This is For all Jacobites :-Iwould like to add a few lines to Saji Thannikkottu's reply to
Fr.Valiyaparabil's heretic insinuations against St.Thomas.
It is well-known that the 'Puthencruz Society' and its followers
suffer from 'Marthoma Syndrome'. In fact, it is an old story. It all started
with Antiochene Patriarch Yakob III's infamous Kalpana No.203/1970 dated
27.6.1970 wherein he argued that St.Thomas didn't have a 'throne', but only
St.Peter had one. He went on to add insult to injury by claming that St.Thomas
didnot even have 'priesthood'.

Well, the Puthenxruz Soceity and its mentors also suffer from another
ailment, viz, 'selective memory'. The very same Patriarch had earlier authored
a book called 'The History of Syrian Church', in which, on page 149, he wrote:"
In the spring of AD 28, Mar Thoma was elevated as Apostle along with other
disciples". Again, on page 164 of the same book, it says: "after sowing the
seeds of the Gospel in Malankara, he ordained clergy from four Brahmin families,
Sankarapuri, Pakalomattom, Kalli and Kaliyankal, which had embraced
Christianity." Had the Patriarch forgotten what he had written in his own book?
Besides, one may ask: if Mar Thoma was not High Priest, how could he ordain
priests?

The ancient inscriptions on the steps of the Madbaha of Rakkad
Church under Angamali diocese reads thus: "In 1846, during the reign of Mar
Deevannasios on the throne of St.Thomas, Yuyachim Mar Coorilos visited
Malankara". (Yuyachim Mar Coorilos was an Antiochene Metran, who was elevated to
sainthood by Patriarch Zaka I in 2008). The point is, even in 1846, the throne
of St.Thomas was not disputed. Again, in 1912, Patriarch Abdul Mesiah installed
the First Catholicos of Malankara to 'The Throne of St.Thomas'. In 1958, when
the Catholicos and Patriarch accepted each other by exchanging kalpanas, the
letter-head of the Catholicos' Kalpana clearly spoke of the 'The Throne of
St.Thomas'.

There is yet another affliction, the Puthencruz society suffers
from: viz, 'selective reading'. Let them read the Bible thoroughly and not
selectively. But if they prefer selective reading, I can recommend a few
passages like: Matthew 18:18, Matthew 19:28, 1 Corinthians 4:14-16. They may
also go through the last kalpana of Paulose Mar Athanasios (who was declared a
saint by them a few years back) reproduced on page 89 of a book by
Fr.Kaniyamparambil Cor-episcopa, one of their prominent clergy.

Interestingly, after slandering and maligning Apostle St.Thomas in
every possible manner, the Puthencruz Society has now inserted his name in the
'Thubden' to be read during Qurbana. What a cheeck !

Finally, I would only wish that in order to spite one's opponent, one
should not stoop to make heretical statements.

sam said...

This is For all Jacobites :-Iwould like to add a few lines to Saji Thannikkottu's reply to
Fr.Valiyaparabil's heretic insinuations against St.Thomas.
It is well-known that the 'Puthencruz Society' and its followers
suffer from 'Marthoma Syndrome'. In fact, it is an old story. It all started
with Antiochene Patriarch Yakob III's infamous Kalpana No.203/1970 dated
27.6.1970 wherein he argued that St.Thomas didn't have a 'throne', but only
St.Peter had one. He went on to add insult to injury by claming that St.Thomas
didnot even have 'priesthood'.

Well, the Puthenxruz Soceity and its mentors also suffer from another
ailment, viz, 'selective memory'. The very same Patriarch had earlier authored
a book called 'The History of Syrian Church', in which, on page 149, he wrote:"
In the spring of AD 28, Mar Thoma was elevated as Apostle along with other
disciples". Again, on page 164 of the same book, it says: "after sowing the
seeds of the Gospel in Malankara, he ordained clergy from four Brahmin families,
Sankarapuri, Pakalomattom, Kalli and Kaliyankal, which had embraced
Christianity." Had the Patriarch forgotten what he had written in his own book?
Besides, one may ask: if Mar Thoma was not High Priest, how could he ordain
priests?

The ancient inscriptions on the steps of the Madbaha of Rakkad
Church under Angamali diocese reads thus: "In 1846, during the reign of Mar
Deevannasios on the throne of St.Thomas, Yuyachim Mar Coorilos visited
Malankara". (Yuyachim Mar Coorilos was an Antiochene Metran, who was elevated to
sainthood by Patriarch Zaka I in 2008). The point is, even in 1846, the throne
of St.Thomas was not disputed. Again, in 1912, Patriarch Abdul Mesiah installed
the First Catholicos of Malankara to 'The Throne of St.Thomas'. In 1958, when
the Catholicos and Patriarch accepted each other by exchanging kalpanas, the
letter-head of the Catholicos' Kalpana clearly spoke of the 'The Throne of
St.Thomas'.

There is yet another affliction, the Puthencruz society suffers
from: viz, 'selective reading'. Let them read the Bible thoroughly and not
selectively. But if they prefer selective reading, I can recommend a few
passages like: Matthew 18:18, Matthew 19:28, 1 Corinthians 4:14-16. They may
also go through the last kalpana of Paulose Mar Athanasios (who was declared a
saint by them a few years back) reproduced on page 89 of a book by
Fr.Kaniyamparambil Cor-episcopa, one of their prominent clergy.

Interestingly, after slandering and maligning Apostle St.Thomas in
every possible manner, the Puthencruz Society has now inserted his name in the
'Thubden' to be read during Qurbana. What a cheeck !

Finally, I would only wish that in order to spite one's opponent, one
should not stoop to make heretical statements.

sam said...

This is For all Jacobites :-Iwould like to add a few lines to Saji Thannikkottu's reply to
Fr.Valiyaparabil's heretic insinuations against St.Thomas.
It is well-known that the 'Puthencruz Society' and its followers
suffer from 'Marthoma Syndrome'. In fact, it is an old story. It all started
with Antiochene Patriarch Yakob III's infamous Kalpana No.203/1970 dated
27.6.1970 wherein he argued that St.Thomas didn't have a 'throne', but only
St.Peter had one. He went on to add insult to injury by claming that St.Thomas
didnot even have 'priesthood'.

Well, the Puthenxruz Soceity and its mentors also suffer from another
ailment, viz, 'selective memory'. The very same Patriarch had earlier authored
a book called 'The History of Syrian Church', in which, on page 149, he wrote:"
In the spring of AD 28, Mar Thoma was elevated as Apostle along with other
disciples". Again, on page 164 of the same book, it says: "after sowing the
seeds of the Gospel in Malankara, he ordained clergy from four Brahmin families,
Sankarapuri, Pakalomattom, Kalli and Kaliyankal, which had embraced
Christianity." Had the Patriarch forgotten what he had written in his own book?
Besides, one may ask: if Mar Thoma was not High Priest, how could he ordain
priests?

The ancient inscriptions on the steps of the Madbaha of Rakkad
Church under Angamali diocese reads thus: "In 1846, during the reign of Mar
Deevannasios on the throne of St.Thomas, Yuyachim Mar Coorilos visited
Malankara". (Yuyachim Mar Coorilos was an Antiochene Metran, who was elevated to
sainthood by Patriarch Zaka I in 2008). The point is, even in 1846, the throne
of St.Thomas was not disputed. Again, in 1912, Patriarch Abdul Mesiah installed
the First Catholicos of Malankara to 'The Throne of St.Thomas'. In 1958, when
the Catholicos and Patriarch accepted each other by exchanging kalpanas, the
letter-head of the Catholicos' Kalpana clearly spoke of the 'The Throne of
St.Thomas'.

There is yet another affliction, the Puthencruz society suffers
from: viz, 'selective reading'. Let them read the Bible thoroughly and not
selectively. But if they prefer selective reading, I can recommend a few
passages like: Matthew 18:18, Matthew 19:28, 1 Corinthians 4:14-16. They may
also go through the last kalpana of Paulose Mar Athanasios (who was declared a
saint by them a few years back) reproduced on page 89 of a book by
Fr.Kaniyamparambil Cor-episcopa, one of their prominent clergy.

Interestingly, after slandering and maligning Apostle St.Thomas in
every possible manner, the Puthencruz Society has now inserted his name in the
'Thubden' to be read during Qurbana. What a cheeck !

Finally, I would only wish that in order to spite one's opponent, one
should not stoop to make heretical statements.